Can I be a Godparent even if I am not Catholic?

CramCycle

I was asked to be a godparent to my nephew a few weeks ago, and unfortunately I think my brother in law was a bit surprised that I said I was probably not the best person for the job, you know, not being a Catholic and all.

He went on to explain it's not really like that they just have to do it and since I was heavily involved and would be heavily involved in the child's life that they would like me to be the Godparent.

I said fair enough after my OH gave me a dressing down for being so rude. I understood I had to be catholic and the whole purpose was to be an example or guide for the child. I don't mind doing these things in regards life in general but what happens at a baptism and do I need to be a Catholic?

Benny_Cake

There's a useful summary here:

http://rathminesparish.ie/sacraments-a-services/2-uncategorised/64-why-baptism-some-general-pointers

My understanding is that only one "official" godparent is required. If the other godparent is a baptised Catholic and you are a baptised non-Catholic Christian, you can be an "honorary godparent" or witness. If you're not a Christian / not baptised, you're out of luck.

Of course, as you've probably noticed yourself, this tends to get ignored by a lot of people. It gets a little difficult, no one wants to upset loved ones and it is quite an honour to be asked. It's a conscience call, really. I dodged this particular bullet not so long ago myself (expected to be asked but wasn't - quite a relief)!

eviltwin

I'm a godparent and I'm atheist and the priest who did the baptism is a friend of the dad and knew I was atheist. I had no problem. I have heard of individual priests who make objections and the parents have to rethink but how would the priest even know what religion you are.

Manach

I think the primary requirement after the ceremony is ensure you never forget the godchild's birthday or communion/confirmation days

lazybones32

You got dressed down for being rude?! Sounded like you were being honest...

I don't think you can be a godparent if you're not Catholic because the official function of the godparent is to give the child Catholic instruction if the parents don't.
I don't know if you'll be asked if you are Catholic on the day, so I can say no more

CramCycle

So what does the godfather do? I was at a Baptism years ago but thought the parents done most of it, I just wouldn't like to lie if I have to make some claim about being a catholic when I am not, it is insulting to the priest, it is insulting to anyone there who does believe as I am mocking it in a way, and its just a flat out lie.

If all I have to do is stand there and hold the baby without saying much/anything then that's grand.

Manach

Perhaps the OP is stressing a bit on this. Yes it is a religious occasion, but also a social one. Relax.

There is a beginners guide I found in Veritas(The Gift of Godparents by Sheridan) that gave me some background info. As for expectations, for
short term during the ceremony just show up and follow the Priest's procedural directions. For the longer term just keep in touch with the child and live a relatively blameless life as this would of guidance for the child.

lazygal

I know of people who agreed to be godparents under the impression that it was a purely ceremonial thing but on the day had to make verbal promises about Satan and sin that they felt very uncomfortable about. It might be a good idea to discuss the form of the ceremony and what exactly you'd be required to do before deciding on whether you're happy to agree tothe role. It is a religious role after all, even though these days it seems to be more about the child getting presents and special attention.

eviltimeban

You could quote this line from About A Boy:

"I couldn't possibly think of a worse godfather for Imogene. You know me. I'll drop her at her christening. I'll forget her birthdays until her 18th, when I'll take her out and get her drunk and possibly, let's face it, you know, try and shag her. I mean, seriously, it's a very, very bad choice."

CramCycle

Manach wrote: »

Perhaps the OP is stressing a bit on this. Yes it is a religious occasion, but also a social one. Relax.

Not stressing, if it doesn't involve me saying a load of things that make me (more of a) liar, then I am happy enough. Just if it involves me making a load of promises that I can't stand by, then I will aim not too, although my OH may not care about my opinion on the subject.

For the longer term just keep in touch with the child and live a relatively blameless life as this would of guidance for the child.

Pretty much what I am doing anyway.

lazygal wrote: »

I know of people who agreed to be godparents under the impression that it was a purely ceremonial thing but on the day had to make verbal promises about Satan and sin that they felt very uncomfortable about. It might be a good idea to discuss the form of the ceremony and what exactly you'd be required to do before deciding on whether you're happy to agree tothe role. It is a religious role after all, even though these days it seems to be more about the child getting presents and special attention.

Might just drop the local church a line

eviltimeban wrote: »

You could quote this line from About A Boy:

"I couldn't possibly think of a worse godfather for Imogene. You know me. I'll drop her at her christening. I'll forget her birthdays until her 18th, when I'll take her out and get her drunk and possibly, let's face it, you know, try and shag her. I mean, seriously, it's a very, very bad choice."

LOL, as bad as my OHs reaction to my apparent rudeness, I can't imagine she will take sleeping with our Nephew too well, legal or not.

belgian blue

You don't have to be a Catholic, any Christian who believes in baptism can be a Godparent. Why do some parents and Godparents not take the role and responsibilities of a Godparent seriously ? Must me more about getting the perceived 'honour', photos, and the dressing up and the meal afterwards, when it should be about the Child's baptism. I'm a Godparent and I say a prayer for my God child every day, and I will continue to do so for the rest of my life. If I didn't believe in Christianity, baptism, and the role of a God parent I would not stand as one, and just simply explain, thanks for asking, but that's simply not my belief, and I'd just attend as a ordinary friend or family member and support them that way, but that's just me.

CramCycle

Kind of what I was thinking, but then I don't think a christening should happen until a child is old enough to say yes or no themselves.

My thinking was me taking part would be mocking the whole thing, no intention of guiding the child in Christian ways. Will be there to guide him morally and give him guidance when his parents are not there or when I am asked.

Guess it's time to tell them I can't do it.

neemish

OP, I have to say I admire your honesty and your integrity - you're not Catholic or Christian and aren't willing to make a mockery of the Sacrament and your own beliefs by saying otherwise. If I had a child, you're exactly the kind of person I would want involved in my child's life. Maybe you could talk to the parents again, and talk about godparent-like role without taking part in the Ceremony. I don't know how you could term it. You'll be there to support the child and family in many ways, just not on faith matters.

katydid

CramCycle wrote: »

I was asked to be a godparent to my nephew a few weeks ago, and unfortunately I think my brother in law was a bit surprised that I said I was probably not the best person for the job, you know, not being a Catholic and all.

He went on to explain it's not really like that they just have to do it and since I was heavily involved and would be heavily involved in the child's life that they would like me to be the Godparent.

I said fair enough after my OH gave me a dressing down for being so rude. I understood I had to be catholic and the whole purpose was to be an example or guide for the child. I don't mind doing these things in regards life in general but what happens at a baptism and do I need to be a Catholic?

I am not a Roman Catholic and I am the godparent of my RC niece. No one involved in the church ever asked me for my religious status. The way I look at it, even though I don't share my nieces's faith, I feel I have taken on the duty to encourage her in her religion until such time as she is old enough to make up her own mind. She has now been confirmed, so I consider my duty, in a religious sense, done.

katydid

CramCycle wrote: »

Kind of what I was thinking, but then I don't think a christening should happen until a child is old enough to say yes or no themselves.

My thinking was me taking part would be mocking the whole thing, no intention of guiding the child in Christian ways. Will be there to guide him morally and give him guidance when his parents are not there or when I am asked.

Guess it's time to tell them I can't do it.

You don't have to personally guide the child in a religious sense, but ensure that it happens. Let's say that for some tragic reason the child was left in your care; as a godparent, it would be your duty to ensure that he or she was given religious instruction until such time as her or she made their confirmation, where, theoretically, they are making an adult decision to commit to the faith. (Although how they make such a decision at twelve is beyond me). You are not betraying your own beliefs or lack of them by carrying out what were the wishes of the parents, or what you undertook to do at the child's christening.

That shouldn't be a problem. What would be a problem would be the actual saying of words you many not believe in during the ceremony itself. For that reason, if you don't have a Christian belief, you can't, in all conscience, state beliefs you don't have.

katydid

Manach wrote: »

Perhaps the OP is stressing a bit on this. Yes it is a religious occasion, but also a social one. Relax.

As for expectations, for
short term during the ceremony just show up and follow the Priest's procedural directions.

It may be a social one, but it IS a religious ceremony, and a godparent is asked to make statements of belief that may be at odds with their own beliefs. In that case, it is dishonest to dismiss this aspect and simply mouth words. For the priest and the congregation and presumably for the parents, this is an important occasion, and to repeat words you don't mean is to treat it, and them, with disrespect.

katydid

lazybones32 wrote: »

I don't think you can be a godparent if you're not Catholic because the official function of the godparent is to give the child Catholic instruction if the parents don't.

No, the official function is to ensure that the child gets religious guidance. You can do that without giving them instruction yourself.

lulu1

lazybones32 wrote: »

You got dressed down for being rude?! Sounded like you were being honest...

I don't think you can be a godparent if you're not Catholic because the official function of the godparent is to give the child Catholic instruction if the parents don't.
I don't know if you'll be asked if you are Catholic on the day, so I can say no more

In all honesty can any god parent see themselves going round to their brother/sister/friends house and instructing their child in religion because their parents dont. I really dont think there will be any problem with you being god parent op

CelticRambler

lazygal wrote: »

I know of people who agreed to be godparents under the impression that it was a purely ceremonial thing but on the day had to make verbal promises about Satan and sin that they felt very uncomfortable about. It might be a good idea to discuss the form of the ceremony and what exactly you'd be required to do before deciding on whether you're happy to agree tothe role. It is a religious role after all, even though these days it seems to be more about the child getting presents and special attention.

There sure are a lot of people who think it's just ceremonial, but apart from the religious side (which doesn't mean teaching catechism) you're also promising to stand in for one of the parents if anything happens to them, at least until someone else can take on the role.

My niece/god-daughter's father died last year and even though I live 1000km away from her, there's no doubt that she sees me as more than just someone who doesn't forget her birthday. I make sure that we do ordinary "dad" stuff whenever possible, and she knows that she's my goddaugher whereas her big sister is 'just' a niece.

Peregrinus

The role of the godparent (techically, the "sponsor") is to "help the baptized person to lead a Christian life in keeping with baptism and to fulfill faithfully the obligations inherent in it". This doesn't necessarily involve giving instruction. It could, but more usually it involves support, example, encouragement, etc.

The formal requirements for acting as sponsor are that you be a baptised Catholic, that you have made your first eucharist and have been confirmed, that you are at least 16 years of age, that you have the aptitude for and intention of fulfilling the sponsor's role, and that you lead a "life of faith in keeping with the function to be taken on". In practice judgments about your aptitude, intention and "life of faith" are largely left up to the parents of the child to be baptised; if they think you qualify a priest will be slow to second-guess them. They, after all, know you better than the priest does.

You can have one or two sponsors. As long as you have at least one sponsor, you can have as many further "Christian witnesses" to the baptism as you like. Christian witnesses do not have to be Catholic, but they are supposed to belong to a "non-Catholic ecclesial community". Sponsors and Christian witnesses are both generally considered to be included in the term "godparents".

CramCycle asks what will be expected of him at the baptismal liturgy. There are a couple of options for the liturgy, but typically the liturgical role of the godparent includes:

- affirming that they are "ready to help the parents of this child in their duty as Christian parents"

- tracing the sign of the cross on the child's forehead when invited to do so by the priest

- joining with the parents in renewing their own baptismal vows, and making a profession of faith.

- joining with the parents in requesting baptism on behalf of the child.

Plus, there are numerous prayers in the liturgy which the priest will say, but which refer to the parents and godparents and their role.

I think CramCycle's reservations about taking on this role are well-grounded, and I don't think his reluctance to do so is at all rude. If anyone is being rude it is people who, knowing his views and feelings on the matter of Christianity, would ask him to take on this rule and express surprise at his reservations. Do they think that, just because he's not a Christian, he doesn't take his own beliefs seriously?

lazygal

Peregrinus wrote: »

The role of the godparent (techically, the "sponsor") is to "help the baptized person to lead a Christian life in keeping with baptism and to fulfill faithfully the obligations inherent in it". This doesn't necessarily involve giving instruction. It could, but more usually it involves support, example, encouragement, etc.

The formal requirements for acting as sponsor are that you be a baptised Catholic, that you have made your first eucharist and have been confirmed, that you are at least 16 years of age, that you have the aptitude for and intention of fulfilling the sponsor's role, and that you lead a "life of faith in keeping with the function to be taken on". In practice judgments about your aptitude, intention and "life of faith" are largely left up to the parents of the child to be baptised; if they think you qualify a priest will be slow to second-guess them. They, after all, know you better than the priest does.

You can have one or two sponsors. As long as you have at least one sponsor, you can have as many further "Christian witnesses" to the baptism as you like. Christian witnesses do not have to be Catholic, but they are supposed to belong to a "non-Catholic ecclesial community". Sponsors and Christian witnesses are both generally considered to be included in the term "godparents".

CramCycle asks what will be expected of him at the baptismal liturgy. There are a couple of options for the liturgy, but typically the liturgical role of the godparent includes:

- affirming that they are "ready to help the parents of this child in their duty as Christian parents"

- tracing the sign of the cross on the child's forehead when invited to do so by the priest

- joining with the parents in renewing their own baptismal vows, and making a profession of faith.

- joining with the parents in requesting baptism on behalf of the child.

Plus, there are numerous prayers in the liturgy which the priest will say, but which refer to the parents and godparents and their role.

I think CramCycle's reservations about taking on this role are well-grounded, and I don't think his reluctance to do so is at all rude. If anyone is being rude it is people who, knowing his views and feelings on the matter of Christianity, would ask him to take on this rule and express surprise at his reservations. Do they think that, just because he's not a Christian, he doesn't take his own beliefs seriously?

I think this should be a cut out and keep for those who've been seen as awkward by refusing to be a godparent.

Manach

Or perhaps to illustrate the failure to understand the honour being done in the invite as a mark of social occasion and standing within the community.

Peregrinus

Perhaps. with hindsight, my remark about it being rude to as CramCycle to be a godparent was ill-judged. I'm sure the parents, in asking him, intended it as a recognition of CramCycles fine qualities - dependability, loyalty, decency, wisdom. They see him as somebody who will be good for their child, somebody the child will be glad to have in his life. That's not rude.

Still, it's equally not rude to express appreciation at being asked, but to decline because you don't feel it's a role you can fill with integrity.

lazygal

Manach wrote: »

Or perhaps to illustrate the failure to understand the honour being done in the invite as a mark of social occasion and standing within the community.

But I'm not part of the church community, and it is inextricably linked to the church and not the wider community.
Would you feel aggrieved that someone declined to accept the honour of being a godparent because they are not Catholic and don't follow another Christian faith either, therefore don't see themselves as a suitable person to be a godparent? Or do you think such a person is just being awkward and rude and should go along with a tradition regardless of his or her feelings?

Mark Tapley

I am atheist godparent and for me the ceremony was like some arcane ritual. I have no intention of giving my goddaughter religious instruction and hope it is something she will grow out of. I will of course do my best to ensure her well being to me this does not involve religion. People might think it is hypocritical of me to take part in a religious ceremony but to me the religious aspects carry no weight.

Manach

lazygal wrote: »

But I'm not part of the church community, and it is inextricably linked to the church and not the wider community.

That is the problem when words like community are being bandied about, as if the post-Secular Ireland has managed to somehow replicate the Catholic community of old, instead of being islands of individuals monads. Like or not there still is a strong remnant of Catholic social building present, and events like baptisms which invite the individual to lead a moral life as an example to the world and welcoming the child into the world are a key part of it.

lazygal

Manach wrote: »

That is the problem when words like community are being bandied about, as if the post-Secular Ireland has managed to somehow replicate the Catholic community of old, instead of being islands of individuals monads. Like or not there still is a strong remnant of Catholic social building present, and events like baptisms which invite the individual to lead a moral life as an example to the world and welcoming the child into the world are a key part of it.

What's a post secular Ireland? You did use the term community first - to what community were you referring? Any Catholic baptism I have attended refers to the child becoming part of the Catholic church community, and the parents have said that's what the ceremony means for them.

Would a Jewish, Muslim or person of another faith be expected to agree to the honour of a godparent role for a Catholic baptism? Plenty of people welcome their child into the world in non religious ways, like naming ceremonies.

Manach

Which shows how the policies of divisional identity is so inherent in this post-modern Ireland. To expect the parents to confirm to whatever group identification so as make the ceremony of baptism less relevant with whatever fad a naming "ceremony" which presumable is of humanist/usual suspects origins, both a pale imitation and to yet another attempt undercut any religious connection so as to purge the event of any meaning and by that implication any tradition or cultural ties.

lazygal

Manach wrote: »

Which shows how the policies of divisional identity is so inherent in this post-modern Ireland. To expect the parents to confirm to whatever group identification so as make the ceremony of baptism less relevant with whatever fad a naming "ceremony" which presumable is of humanist/usual suspects origins, both a pale imitation and to yet another attempt undercut any religious connection so as to purge the event of any meaning and by that implication any tradition or cultural ties.

Was my humanist wedding a fad too? Does that mean I'm not actually married? Have you ever been to a non-religious occasion to celebrate a birth, marriage or death? The humanist funeral of a family member this year was full of meaning. I'd like to think our wedding had some meaning too. And a friend who had a much longed for baby via IVF last year had a very meaningful naming ceremony to welcome the baby into the family.
I had a non-religious 'fad' inspired ceremony when I got married. We had a non-religious wedding because we're not religious. Would it have been more meaningful to go along with a religious ceremony in a faith we don't ascribe to rather than act in accordance with how we live our lives?

Festus

lazygal wrote: »

Was my humanist wedding a fad too? Does that mean I'm not actually married? Have you ever been to a non-religious occasion to celebrate a birth, marriage or death? The humanist funeral of a family member this year was full of meaning. I'd like to think our wedding had some meaning too. And a friend who had a much longed for baby via IVF last year had a very meaningful naming ceremony to welcome the baby into the family.
I had a non-religious 'fad' inspired ceremony when I got married. We had a non-religious wedding because we're not religious. Would it have been more meaningful to go along with a religious ceremony in a faith we don't ascribe to rather than act in accordance with how we live our lives?

With respect to your wedding you may find this Huffington post article of some interest.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bethany-blankley/how-protestantism-redefined-marriage_b_1510654.html

Manach

And the victomology begins, pardon while I put the violins on the background.

Whilst I decline to take social advise for such quarters I can admire the relentless drive to undercut to underpinnings of society to make them amenable to change, subjectivity and eventual obsolescence. Cultureal PCism at its finest. By continuously raising the hue and cry of the "but what of X", the aim is to make the actual ceremonies less common or de-evolved to pale, shallow copies.

lazygal

Manach wrote: »

And the victomology begins, pardon while I put the violins on the background.

Whilst I decline to take social advise for such quarters I can admire the relentless drive to undercut to underpinnings of society to make them amenable to change, subjectivity and eventual obsolescence. Cultureal PCism at its finest. By continuously raising the hue and cry of the "but what of X", the aim is to make the actual ceremonies less common or de-evolved to pale, shallow copies.

So if you don't have church ceremonies for weddings, children and death, all you're doing is having pale, shallow copies of the real thing?
Nice rant btw. But I'm still married, right? Even though we didn't have a church wedding?

eviltwin

Festus wrote: »

With respect to your wedding you may find this Huffington post article of some interest.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bethany-blankley/how-protestantism-redefined-marriage_b_1510654.html

Ah right so in the eyes of the religious a non church wedding will never be good enough, well that's okay, I think we're used to religious people being on their moral high horse looking down at the rest of us. Personally I don't care. I have no interest in the church having any place in my life especially on what is meant to be a family celebration. I had my marriage in a registry office, its legally binding so in the eyes of the state we have the rights we wanted, everyone - even those people we know who are religious funnily enough - consider us married and most importantly WE know we are married. A church to you might be a very emotional and spiritual environment but to me and my husband ( can I call him that? ) its just a building, it has no more significance than a house or the local community centre.

Festus

Your are in a Christian forum on a thread that is discussing a Christian sacrament. Why do you get so upset when people explain the facts and God's plan to you?

eviltwin

Festus wrote: »

Your are in a Christian forum on a thread that is discussing a Christian sacrament. Why do you get so upset when people explain the facts and God's plan to you?

God's plan is fine for those who believe in God. I don't. I don't need to seeing as how alternatives exist. I'm not upset by your comments, you're entitled to your opinion. Funny its always the Christians who look down at other people. You're no more married than I am if you choose to get married in a church.

lazybones32

katydid wrote: »

No, the official function is to ensure that the child gets religious guidance. You can do that without giving them instruction yourself.

Apologies. The responsibility lies with the Godparent, then.

lulu1 wrote: »

In all honesty can any god parent see themselves going round to their brother/sister/friends house and instructing their child in religion because their parents dont.

But that's kind of the point: why accept responsibility for something you have no intention of ever fulfilling and - in the OP's case - don't believe?

I wouldn't make a 'promise' I have no intention of keeping, much less make a religious promise/commitment if I neither believed in God or intended to keep it.

Just because (maybe) a lot of Irish people don't understand and appreciate what Baptism actually is, doesn't justify abusing* it or making a mockery of it.

*abuse - to use something to bad effect, misuse or using it for purpose not intended for.

PopePalpatine

Manach wrote: »

And the victomology begins, pardon while I put the violins on the background.

That's a bit rich coming from you, where any whittling away of Catholic supremacy in this State is condemned as "anti-Catholic" by you.

MojoRisinnnn

I'm a godparent and in no way religious

Festus

eviltwin wrote: »

God's plan is fine for those who believe in God. I don't. I don't need to seeing as how alternatives exist. I'm not upset by your comments, you're entitled to your opinion. Funny its always the Christians who look down at other people. You're no more married than I am if you choose to get married in a church.

if you don't believe in God what are you bringing to a discussion on a Christian sacrament?

PopePalpatine

Festus wrote: »

if you don't believe in God what are you bringing to a discussion on a Christian sacrament?

The OP also doesn't believe in God and he started this whole discussion, why not take the issue up with him?

eviltwin

Festus wrote: »

if you don't believe in God what are you bringing to a discussion on a Christian sacrament?

Because this is a discussion forum and I have experience of being a non religious godparent

BizzyC

I'm an athiest and a god parent, and I don't see any conflict there.

The role of a godparent is to support the child and help them to develop in their faith.

As my nephew grows up, if he needs support or help in any way from me in pursuing his faith I'll be happy to support him.
You don't have to be the person driving his faith, you just have to be available and willing to help if he needs/wants it.

eviltwin

I would tell anyone in the OP's situation to do whatever feels right for them. I wouldn't worry about it if I wanted to accept but felt I shouldn't. The people who have the biggest responsibility to the child are its parents and seeing as how so many of them get their child baptised and never set foot in a church again I'm sure they won't mind that you aren't religious, any parent who is religious will probably not ask a non religious person to be godparent in the first place.

Benny_Cake

Mod: People, can we leave the culture wars elsewhere, please? The OP asked a reasonable question, keep things on topic.

Manach wrote: »

Which shows how the policies of divisional identity is so inherent in this post-modern Ireland. To expect the parents to confirm to whatever group identification so as make the ceremony of baptism less relevant with whatever fad a naming "ceremony" which presumable is of humanist/usual suspects origins, both a pale imitation and to yet another attempt undercut any religious connection so as to purge the event of any meaning and by that implication any tradition or cultural ties.

Referring to a way of marking a life event as a "fad" simply because it's newer and different than one's own traditions isn't on. Please refrain from it.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

That's a bit rich coming from you, where any whittling away of Catholic supremacy in this State is condemned as "anti-Catholic" by you.

If there were issues between you and another poster elsewhere, please don't drag them up here.

Benny_Cake

I think the OP is showing a high level of respect for what is a Catholic sacrament after all, not simply a community event. I wouldn't judge anyone for a second if they decided to go ahead as a godparent - it's a huge honour after all - but I've a lot of time for someone who does their homework and makes a decision based on principle rather than convenience.

katydid

BizzyC wrote: »

I'm an athiest and a god parent, and I don't see any conflict there..

How did you handle making the statements at the baptism ceremony where you were asked about your beliefs? Presumably you had to lie. Not good example for your godson.

Mark Tapley

katydid wrote: »

How did you handle making the statements at the baptism ceremony where you were asked about your beliefs? Presumably you had to lie. Not good example for your godson.

Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

eviltwin

katydid wrote: »

How did you handle making the statements at the baptism ceremony where you were asked about your beliefs? Presumably you had to lie. Not good example for your godson.

The kid is probably a couple of months old. He will be okay.

katydid

Mark Tapley wrote: »

Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

I'm not judging. You DID lie if you said in the ceremony that you believed in God and rejected the Devil and all his works.

Lying is not a good example to a child.

Those are facts.

katydid

eviltwin wrote: »

The kid is probably a couple of months old. He will be okay.

When he grows up, and finds out the person he presumably looks up to deliberately lied, he will surely be disappointed.

eviltwin

katydid wrote: »

When he grows up, and finds out the person he presumably looks up to deliberately lied, he will surely be disappointed.

Better not tell him about Santa Claus or the tooth fairy so