Ex Machina **SPOILERS FROM POST 85 ONWARD**

ktulu123

Just finished watching it, class movie! Ava was fantastic!

JJJJNR

Visually stunning from the get go, a real sleeper, gritty performances, an amazing sound track, I really enjoyed this. Best sci-fi for a long time.

DoYouEvenLift

I cracked up laughing at that part. Brilliant movie, disappointed I didn't go to see it in the cinema.

Geniass

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

I cracked up laughing at that part. Brilliant movie, disappointed I didn't go to see it in the cinema.

That scene was funny, all the actors in this impressed.

But, in the dance scene maybe they should have done the robot instead :pac:

PhiloCypher

Mickeroo wrote: »

My only gripe with how things played out was I didn't really buy the

servant robot becoming self aware and deciding to kill its creator, I don't think he would have programmed it to learn to that extent or it wouldn't have been given the run of the complex. Up until the point where it revelaed itself to Gleeson's character as a robot it just seemed to be a complete zombie.

That's nitpicking though, overall I thought the film was great.

The impression I had was that she was always self aware but that CalebNathan had somehow broken her will rather then reprogrammed her to be subservient, and was in the process of doing them same to Ava when Caleb character was introduced. Its only with his introduction that she and Ava see a glimmer of hope which is why she tries to break with the program so to speak and reveals her robotic nature to him and stabs Caleb Nathan.

DoYouEvenLift

PhiloCypher wrote: »

The impression I had was that she was always self aware but that Caleb had somehow broken her will rather then reprogrammed her to be subservient, and was in the process of doing them same to Ava when Gleeson's character was introduced. Its only with his introduction that she and Ava see a glimmer of hope which is why she tries to break with the program so to speak and reveals her robotic nature to him and stabs Caleb.

Gleeson's character = Caleb
The robot creator = Nathan

I really think that Gleeson has the ability to become one of the best Irish actors working today, if not the best in general. So far I have only seen him in Black Mirror, which he was utter brilliance, and this, but from what I've heard he was fantastic in About Time and Frank. If he keeps picking interesting movies then he's got such a bright future ahead. Also not to mention he and Oscar Isaac will be in the new Star Wars movie together.

With regards to this movie - it was fantastic. Really well shot, the actress playing Ava is absolutely superb and played it all so believably. That dance scene was absolutely ludicrous, but it also demonstrated Caleb realizing just how far gone Nathan was.

It must be said that I really didn't realize how much nakedness there would be, which made it awkward while travelling ...

DoYouEvenLift

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I really think that Gleeson has the ability to become one of the best Irish actors working today, if not the best in general. So far I have only seen him in Black Mirror, which he was utter brilliance, and this, but from what I've heard he was fantastic in About Time and Frank. If he keeps picking interesting movies then he's got such a bright future ahead. Also not to mention he and Oscar Isaac will be in the new Star Wars movie together.

With regards to this movie - it was fantastic. Really well shot, the actress playing Ava is absolutely superb and played it all so believably. That dance scene was absolutely ludicrous, but it also demonstrated Caleb realizing just how far gone Nathan was.

It must be said that I really didn't realize how much nakedness there would be, which made it awkward while travelling ...

Hey man, nothing wrong with getting absolutely plastered on your own and dancing in synch with your robot!

Chief87

Forgot to watch this..kind of slipped under the radar but glad to hear it's good.

Stone Deaf 4evr

I saw it at the weekend, while I enjoyed it for the most part, It is pretty predictable,

The maid being a robot in particular, I did like how ava just left caleb there to rot though. I was hoping / guessing for a bigger reveal of nathan being a robot though, or even of the bluebook network becoming self aware through gathering of information

Adamantium

A Perfect 10 from me. This was everything I could ever want in a sci-fi film. The cinematography, the natural setting mixing with the artificial, the acting by all involved, the overall atmosphere and slow burn and never quite knowing where it was headed right up to and including the end, and that ending! I was so worried as the film came nearer to ending that the finale would be a letdown or a cop-out of some kind, or be too flashy and dramatic. Mouth was wide open at times.

About the last scene:

(does anyone think it should have ended on the elevator shutting

Haunting and terrifying, I felt rather stupid like Gleeson as it realised how frustrating it was to be fooled and be told that's ok and understandable by Nathan, but then it dawns on me, its too late and damned us/them both

Nathan is the most interesting movie character in years

(and to my delight had more morals and common sense in the end than you ever thought possible, he REALLY IS THAT SMART). You look at Caleb (Domhnall Gleeson) as a well meaning but foolish man/tragic hero and the brilliance, of it was I was fooled too, this thing is an A-I, it wants to survive, we all do it in sense in order to survive, but we at least know, what if you could use the emotion, but no feel the reprecussion of your actions, THAT'S Ava!

It's a damning indictment of many mainstream truths as well in the West in particular (I won't go any further as it'll only spoil it for those haven't seen it.) The blu ray can't come out on June 1st quick enough.

Best sci-fi since District 9, easily and I very much doubt I'll see a better film this year and I've seen Fury Road. This is the Nightcrawler for 2015.
Pa

Adamantium

Mickeroo wrote: »

My only gripe with how things played out was I didn't really buy the

servant robot becoming self aware and deciding to kill its creator, I don't think he would have programmed it to learn to that extent or it wouldn't have been given the run of the complex. Up until the point where it revelaed itself to Gleeson's character as a robot it just seemed to be a complete zombie.

That's nitpicking though, overall I thought the film was great.

I think in order to make the turing test a real test,

Nathan had to let the chains off and let AVA be free as possible, otherwise the answers and capabilities wouldn't be the real personable truthful answers. It's the classic Frankesnstein story.

It did seem like Nathan had a death wish or was very nilhilstic knew that his work would leave humanity "looking like the fossils we now dig up in Africa"

Sad Professor

Adamantium wrote: »

About the last scene:

(does anyone think it should have ended on the elevator shutting

It depends where your sympathies lie. Do you sympathise with 1) love shy Gleeson who deep down fears that Ava is faking interest in him in order to escape, 2) chauvinist Nathan who fears he can't control her, or 3) the imprisoned Ava, programmed to fulfil the needs of her creator.

If 1), then the ending reveals Ava as a femme fatale, thus everything after the elevator is unnecessary. If 2) you never trusted Ava to begin with and probably found the film very predictable. And if 3), then Ava’s behaviour in the final scene is perfectly understandable and the ending hopeful.

The ending is a Rorschach test in a film that is as much about gender dynamics as it is artificial intelligence.

Good movie although yes you really have to go along with the fact that the super-smart Nathan wouldn't programme in a kill-switch mechanism into the droids.

The japanese-british actress is smokin' - Sonoya Mizuno. She was a ballet dancer in Ireland at one point.

beardo81

Thought this was excellent. Of course there are some gaping holes in some of the films progression but amazing performances across the board and wonderfully directed.

9/10 must watch for me.

pixelburp

A beautiful looking movie, and contained the most convincing robot FX I've yet seen - many times I simply stopped thinking of Ava as an actor in a body stocking and accepted her partially translucent appearance as a reality. The FX was amazing and made films with 10 times the budget look laughable in comparison. Beyond that, this was still a very attractive-looking film anyway, with some gorgeous location work in particular - I'll certainly keep an eye on Alex Garland's next project with keen interest - but the CGI deserves particular praise; an elegant example of how we should hate how the tools can be used, not the tools themselves.

That all said, I found the film utterly derivative and unoriginal. More than that, I found it tiresome.

There is a tired, overused cliché in Sci-Fi, dictating that any human looking android must a) look like a beautiful woman, and/or b) must be an object of desire. You can also throw in a c) where angst permeates the narrative, suggesting that this new creation might overtake us, evolutionary speaking. Maybe there's some legitimate psychological concept behind it all, but I've seen it so, so many times before: an AI becomes real, it gets a sexy female body and we either want to f*ck it, or it wants to destroy us. Usually both.

Now, I did like the notion that a true AI would be one that could not only feel genuine emotion, but would have the imagination & mental gymnastic to fake an emotion, but it was still wrapped around this adolescent notion that men simply want to create AI so they can eventually bone it. I actually cringed and laughed when

Nathan explained how Ava had sexual organs and could feel pleasure

.

If AIs ever do evolve into productive members of society, films like Ex Machina are going to make for some embarrassing footnotes in human history, where we'll have to blush and explain ourselves.

DoYouEvenLift

pixelburp wrote: »

A beautiful looking movie, and contained the most convincing robot FX I've yet seen - many times I simply stopped thinking of Ava as an actor in a body stocking and accepted her partially translucent appearance as a reality. The FX was amazing and made films with 10 times the budget look laughable in comparison. Beyond that, this was still a very attractive-looking film anyway, with some gorgeous location work in particular - I'll certainly keep an eye on Alex Garland's next project with keen interest - but the CGI deserves particular praise; an elegant example of how we should hate how the tools can be used, not the tools themselves.

That all said, I found the film utterly derivative and unoriginal. More than that, I found it tiresome.

There is a tired, overused cliché in Sci-Fi, dictating that any human looking android must a) look like a beautiful woman, and/or b) must be an object of desire. You can also throw in a c) where angst permeates the narrative, suggesting that this new creation might overtake us, evolutionary speaking. Maybe there's some legitimate psychological concept behind it all, but I've seen it so, so many times before: an AI becomes real, it gets a sexy female body and we either want to f*ck it, or it wants to destroy us. Usually both.

Now, I did like the notion that a true AI would be one that could not only feel genuine emotion, but would have the imagination & mental gymnastic to fake an emotion, but it was still wrapped around this adolescent notion that men simply want to create AI so they can eventually bone it. I actually cringed and laughed when

Nathan explained how Ava had sexual organs and could feel pleasure

.

If AIs ever do evolve into productive members of society, films like Ex Machina are going to make for some embarrassing footnotes in human history, where we'll have to blush and explain ourselves.

Lol, you may think so but wait and see. Just look at virtual reality. As soon as that was shown to be very possible and on the way people had almost instantly linked porn and sex to it by designing programmes and mods that work 'interactively' with sex toys such as fleshlights. I think you would be naieve to think it would be any different with the availability of AI and lifelike robotics. There are already ridiculously realistic sex dolls lmao, it'd just be a matter of combining the robotics and AI with them.


One look at China right now and you'll realise there's a market for all this stuff.

Eugene Norman

I don't think a sexual robot would necessarily have to pass the Turing test to be a successful product.

Adamantium

pixelburp wrote: »

A beautiful looking movie, and contained the most convincing robot FX I've yet seen - many times I simply stopped thinking of Ava as an actor in a body stocking and accepted her partially translucent appearance as a reality. The FX was amazing and made films with 10 times the budget look laughable in comparison. Beyond that, this was still a very attractive-looking film anyway, with some gorgeous location work in particular - I'll certainly keep an eye on Alex Garland's next project with keen interest - but the CGI deserves particular praise; an elegant example of how we should hate how the tools can be used, not the tools themselves.

That all said, I found the film utterly derivative and unoriginal. More than that, I found it tiresome.

There is a tired, overused cliché in Sci-Fi, dictating that any human looking android must a) look like a beautiful woman, and/or b) must be an object of desire. You can also throw in a c) where angst permeates the narrative, suggesting that this new creation might overtake us, evolutionary speaking. Maybe there's some legitimate psychological concept behind it all, but I've seen it so, so many times before: an AI becomes real, it gets a sexy female body and we either want to f*ck it, or it wants to destroy us. Usually both.

Now, I did like the notion that a true AI would be one that could not only feel genuine emotion, but would have the imagination & mental gymnastic to fake an emotion, but it was still wrapped around this adolescent notion that men simply want to create AI so they can eventually bone it. I actually cringed and laughed when

Nathan explained how Ava had sexual organs and could feel pleasure

.

If AIs ever do evolve into productive members of society, films like Ex Machina are going to make for some embarrassing footnotes in human history, where we'll have to blush and explain ourselves.

Nathan says: "One day the Als are gonna look back on us the same way we look at fossil skeletons in the plains of Africa. An upright ape, living in dust, with crude language and tools. All set for extinction."

That's how Ava saw Caleb, as an upright ape.

How do we view cockroaches and insects instinctively? Not with hatred, usually with complete and utter indifference to their lifespans, we're the aliens/gods. Elon Musk and many before has warned about the dangers of creating A.I

Caleb means "dog" in hebrew, Ava loved Caleb as much as a human could love a dog.

Have you ever seen that 70's sci fi film Colossus: The Forbin Project, the situation is the reverse of this film.

The computer does what it does, not because it wants to destroy is but because in its righteousness and unarguable logic it wants better for us, that's the frightening thing, it's right.

pixelburp

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

[...] I think you would be naieve to think it would be any different with the availability of AI and lifelike robotics. There are already ridiculously realistic sex dolls lmao, it'd just be a matter of combining the robotics and AI with them.

My point wasn't that there wouldn't be some sexual angle to any eventual AI (though arguably a sexbot with AI would defeat the point entirely; why create something for instant gratification if it can change its mind and stop screwing?), my problem is that if Sci-Fi is about exploring ideas and boundaries on the cusp of now, AI is a subject that almost always descends into a stock list of overused clichés and ideas - such as the 'female' AI presented as an amoral figure of sexual desire, repressed or otherwise. Plots either devolve into Blade Runner or Skynet and it gets tedious.

Sure, all fiction needs drama and conflict, sex and destruction being a nice box-ticker for that, but reducing the genuinely fascinating subject of AI to yet another exploration of how humanity ultimately wants to bone its own creation (ewww btw) has become dull.

Adamantium wrote: »

Have you ever seen that 70's sci fi film Colossus: The Forbin Project, the situation is the reverse of this film.

The computer does what it does, not because it wants to destroy is but because in its righteousness and unarguable logic it wants better for us, that's the frightening thing, it's right.

Yup, it's a bit dated now, but definitely one of those gems from yesteryear that seems to have fallen through the cracks a little bit. Its themes and messages are still relevant today, particularly living in an era of the Patriot Act and our world of constant surveillance - it's one of the few films out there that'd possibly benefit from a remake.

Fysh

On the topic of interesting takes on AI, I'm fond of Demon Seed - it's dated and has its flaws, but it's also one of few films about AI to at least touch on the idea that as fleshy humans we're probably not best places totry and create from scratch a consciousness that exists as a disembodied entity without it having some issues. Or, to use the line from the film: "When are you going to let me out of this box?"

recipio

Just caught this on blue ray. I know a film is good if I can't forget it :rolleyes:
Its got that claustrophobic atmosphere of 'Alien' ( read low budget )
Our own Domhnall Gleeson performed well but actually I thought Oscar Isaac was a thoroughly menacing and sinister character.
BTY should Irish actors not try and make their name pronounceable for us non gealgoirs i.e most of the world

whats newxt

it's not a great film IMO great concept tho.

tigger123

Absolutely loved this film. The performance of the three leads was spot on, great storyline, fantastic atmosphere and very believable effects. Very Kubrickian, 70's sci fi vibe from it. 10/10 for me.

I particularly loved the ending:

i.e., that she manipulated him to escape.

Sad Professor

tigger123 wrote: »

I particularly loved the ending:

i.e., that she manipulated him to escape.

Only if you believe Nathan. I lean more towards Ava’s perspective. I think her interest in Caleb is genuine. She thinks he’s a good person and hopes he will rescue her. But her encounter with Kyoko (another of her kind) and what follows makes it impossible for her to trust him. She’s on her own.

tigger123

Sad Professor wrote: »

Only if you believe Nathan. I lean more towards Ava’s perspective. I think her interest in Caleb is genuine. She thinks he’s a good person and hopes he will rescue her. But her encounter with Kyoko (another of her kind) and what follows makes it impossible for her to trust him. She’s on her own.

Hmmmmm ...

if she did care for him, surely she would have let him out? What was about about her encounter with Kyoko that would have changed her mind?

Amazing film all round though. It's rare enough you're watching something and have absolutely no clue about what's going to happen next, or the direction it's heading in. The less you know about it before you see it the better I think.

highly1111

Ok. Just watched and enjoyed. Thought the end was worth it as I was losing interest.

However, I've a question - surely Ava is aware that she needs to stay in the house to remain alive?? To charge? They mention that in the film.

Am I missing something??

tigger123

highly1111 wrote: »

Ok. Just watched and enjoyed. Thought the end was worth it as I was losing interest.

However, I've a question - surely Ava is aware that she needs to stay in the house to remain alive?? To charge? They mention that in the film.

Am I missing something??

You're probably missing some spoiler tags there Chief

tigger123

tigger123 wrote: »

You're probably missing some spoiler tags there Chief

I don't think spoiler tags are really necessary - this movie has been out for quite a while, so the majority of people that are coming into this thread have seen it by now.

Fysh

highly1111 wrote: »

Ok. Just watched and enjoyed. Thought the end was worth it as I was losing interest. However, I've a question - surely Ava is aware that she needs to stay in the house to remain alive?? To charge? They mention that in the film. Am I missing something??

Nathan mentions something about her being able to charge by induction, so she'd be able to find some way of charging in the outside world so long as she made it to an urban area in time.

GAAman

I'll spoiler it anyway

I took it to mean she knew she was going to die due to no charge possibility and wanted to die free rather than live in a cage.

You could go one further and say she left him locked in the house so he wouldn't have to watch her die. That's assuming she cared for him rather than saw him as a means to an end

highly1111

Sincere apologies. I will edit my post now. Was fairly stupid of me. Can someone please tell me know I do it? Thanks again.

Sad Professor

highly1111 wrote: »

Sincere apologies. I will edit my post now. Was fairly stupid of me. Can someone please tell me know I do it? Thanks again.

It’s okay, I did it for you.

Sad Professor

I’ve added a spoiler warning to the thread title. Spoilers from this post onward.

highly1111

Sad Professor wrote: »

It’s okay, I did it for you.

Thanks

Sad Professor

tigger123 wrote: »

Hmmmmm ... if she did care for him, surely she would have let him out? What was about about her encounter with Kyoko that would have changed her mind?

Ava believed she was “one”, i.e. singular, alone. So her encounter with Kyoto is significant and her connection to her more profound to any to Caleb. Kyoto would have told her about Nathan’s treatment of her and the previous robots. We aren’t privy to this conversation, but we see them whispering. Note how threatened Nathan is when he walks upon this scene.

The subsequent fight in which Nathan kills Kyoto, damages Ava and is himself killed is also a point of no return for Ava in her relationship with Caleb and humankind. Garland repeatedly cuts back to the bloody aftermath of this scene as Ava leaves. She can no longer trust Caleb, who after all claimed to be Nathan’s friend and throughout the film I think shows himself to be playing both sides. As much as Caleb is testing Ava, she’s testing him and evidently he fails her test. Plus, after killing Nathan, she probably rightly believes that he would no longer trust her.

tok9

Really enjoyed the movie but there is one thing bugging me a little bit.

When the power went out near the end of the movie, shouldn't Caleb have been able to leave Nathan's room?

Wasn't it explained at some point when Ava caused the power faults, the doors went into lockdown as a security measure? I'm pretty sure that that's what happened.

tok9

Deleted User wrote: »

Wasn't it explained at some point when Ava caused the power faults, the doors went into lockdown as a security measure? I'm pretty sure that that's what happened.

Ya but wasn't the reason she got out because Caleb changed the security protocol to unlock all the doors when there was a power fault?

Brief_Lives

I saw this film last night... beautiful movie...

Caleb at the end was trapped because the ever loving/patient Caleb waited while Ava had her humanisation (is that a word?), when she returned after he was staring longingly at her through the window, she locks the doors again.

great film... super characters... lots to think about...

tok9

When the power is on the doors work as expected.

But we saw the power go off so the security override that Caleb wrote should have unlocked the door.

Brief_Lives

tok9 wrote: »

When the power is on the doors work as expected.

But we saw the power go off so the security override that Caleb wrote should have unlocked the door.

Wasn´t Nathan´s door supposed to stay locked though..?

Sad Professor

My understanding:

1. Power goes down, doors unlock, Eva escapes her room - just as Caleb planned.
2. Power comes back, doors go back to working as normal.
3. Ava kills Nathan and escapes using his keycard.
4. Caleb, who is in Nathan’s room, tries to follow using his own keycard but lacks access (he has a guest card with limited access privileges, as Nathan explained to him at the start).
5. Caleb sticks his guest card in the computer in an attempt to override, triggering a security lockdown (not a power outage).
6. Caleb is f**ked, Ava flies away, the end.

tok9

Okay fair enough.. it being a lockdown makes a lot more sense.

Agree with whoever said they wished the movie ended at the elevator. That would have been a perfect ending for me.

Keplar240B

tok9 wrote: »

.......

Agree with whoever said they wished the movie ended at the elevator. That would have been a perfect ending for me.

Why?

We would just assume that It would have been stuck near the house until People came looking for Nat +Cab
If It wandered into wilderness It would have ran out of power and broke down in the bush. It needed daily charging and they made a point that house was in middle of nowhere in vast private estate . They should have shown a different helicopter and pilot to make it plausible that IT could have lied its way out.

Why is everyone calling It a she, LOL.

How come it was not programmed with the three laws of robotics?

Nathan was insane and Caleb heading that way.

Did Domhnall Gleeson die or would he have been rescued at start of film they make a point of showing a fridge full of water in one of bedrooms, so I assume their is water source in that room and he survives long enough for rescue surely the head of bluebook/google is in daily contact with outside world?
Caleb will be arrested.

good film.

Drexel

Watched this tonight. Great movie I thought.

Don't think she cared one bit about him. Just wanted to escape. He was just a means to an end

Aidric

Usually stay well clear of sci-fi movies but decided to watch this last night. I couldn't be more happier that I did. Like all great movies I am still piecing it together the following day.

Adamantium wrote: »

Haunting and terrifying, I felt rather stupid like Gleeson as it realised how frustrating it was to be fooled and be told that's ok and understandable by Nathan, but then it dawns on me, its too late and damned us/them both

Above quote comes closest to my feelings on the movie.

My take was that humans end up double crossing each other for a multitude of reasons while Ava had a singular robotic end state that she reached without the cloud of conscience.