Is it still 1971 in Ireland? The contraceptive train still runs - Under another name.

You should listen back to a lady who wrote in to Ray Darcey. Her story of using unprescribed drugs to procure an abortion was horrifying. I hope none of those who took those tablets yesterday suffer any ill effects, though maybe if they did, they'd leave the prescribing of them to those who know what they're doing and can offer follow up support.

Fuhrer

lazygal wrote: »

But you can kill a foetus here if your life is at risk. Or you can bring it elsewhere to kill it. You can't be charged with murder for doing so. In fact there is a constitutional right to travel if you want to kill the unborn elsewhere, as well as information on killing the unborn. The same does not apply where people wish to kill a born baby.

What point are you trying to make? You cant be charged with any murder that doesnt happen within a jurisdiction.


If I travel to England to shoot someone in the head, I wont be charged with murder back in Ireland.

lazygal

Fuhrer wrote: »

What point are you trying to make? You cant be charged with any murder that doesnt happen within a jurisdiction.


If I travel to England to shoot someone in the head, I wont be charged with murder back in Ireland.

But if your purpose is to travel elsewhere to take your own life or to abuse a born child you can be prevented from travelling. Why do we allow women to kill the unborn elsewhere but make it an offence here? Therefore we distinguish between the born and a foetus all the time.

lazygal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You should listen back to a lady who wrote in to Ray Darcey. Her story of using unprescribed drugs to procure an abortion was horrifying. I hope none of those who took those tablets yesterday suffer any ill effects, though maybe if they did, they'd leave the prescribing of them to those who know what they're doing and can offer follow up support.

Exactly why abortion should be safe and legal, at as early a stage as possible.

eviltwin

Fuhrer wrote: »

What point are you trying to make? You cant be charged with any murder that doesnt happen within a jurisdiction.


If I travel to England to shoot someone in the head, I wont be charged with murder back in Ireland.

If you walk into a garda station and admit to killing someone in the UK they will most likely restrain you and check it out. If you tell them the killing took place in an abortion clinic the only charge you will face is wasting their time.

Fuhrer

lazygal wrote: »

But if your purpose is to travel elsewhere to take your own life or to abuse a born child you can be prevented from travelling. Why do we allow women to kill the unborn elsewhere but make it an offence here? Therefore we distinguish between the born and a foetus all the time.

Better standards here I suppose.


At what point should we be allowed to kill the fetus?

If someone walks up to a woman on her way to the hospital and hammer fists her in the gut killing the baby, is that just assault? Or murder?

eviltwin

Deleted User wrote: »

You should listen back to a lady who wrote in to Ray Darcey. Her story of using unprescribed drugs to procure an abortion was horrifying. I hope none of those who took those tablets yesterday suffer any ill effects, though maybe if they did, they'd leave the prescribing of them to those who know what they're doing and can offer follow up support.

She didn't take the abortion pill. She took medication for arthritis in a large dose to induce a miscarriage. Its not the same as the abortion pill which was designed for that specific purpose.

lazygal

Fuhrer wrote: »

Better standards here I suppose.


At what point should we be allowed to kill the fetus?

If someone walks up to a woman on her way to the hospital and hammer fists her in the gut killing the baby, is that just assault? Or murder?

Would the assailant be charged with murder? Do you think women should be prevented from travelling to kill the unborn?

Fuhrer

lazygal wrote: »

Would the assailant be charged with murder? Do you think women should be prevented from travelling to kill the unborn?

Dont answer my question with a question, its a cowards answer.


Do you think the situation I described before is murder?

lazygal

Fuhrer wrote: »

Dont answer my question with a question, its a cowards answer.


Do you think the situation I described before is murder?

What stage of gestation? We don't record foetuses who die before 24 weeks the same as those who die after 24 weeks.
Maybe you can answer my question. Should women be allowed to bring unborn children to be killed elsewhere?

Fuhrer

lazygal wrote: »

What stage of gestation? We don't record foetuses who die before 24 weeks the same as those who die after 24 weeks.
Maybe you can answer my question. Should women be allowed to bring unborn children to be killed elsewhere?

Alright, lets say she was 25 weeks pregnant. Thats murder?

How about she was on her way to the hospital to give birth, is that?

lazygal

Fuhrer wrote: »

Alright, lets say she was 25 weeks pregnant. Thats murder?

How about she was on her way to the hospital to give birth, is that?

Is it murder? Would the assailant be charged with murder? Suppose a woman was boarding a flight planning to kill her unborn child at 23 weeks gestation. Should she be prevented from travelling?

Fuhrer

lazygal wrote: »

Is it murder? Would the assailant be charged with murder? Suppose a woman was boarding a flight planning to kill her unborn child at 23 weeks gestation. Should she be prevented from travelling?

Are you incapable of answering any questions at all?

lazygal

Fuhrer wrote: »

Are you incapable of answering any questions at all?

I don't know whether punching a woman causing her to miscarry a foetus incurs a charge of murder. Do you? Is it ok to bring the unborn elsewhere to induce miscarriage?

Fuhrer

lazygal wrote: »

I don't know whether punching a woman causing her to miscarry a foetus incurs a charge of murder. Do you? Is it ok to bring the unborn elsewhere to induce miscarriage?

I was asking you if you thought it was murder, the staggering lengths you're going to not answer this questions tells me all I need to know about you.

efb

volchitsa wrote: »

It's now accepted that the stats in Ireland on maternal mortality rates have been severely under reported, partly die to methodological flaws. More recent statistics should be better but are still not directly comparable to international statistics, because some cases that are reported as maternal deaths in the UK and elsewhere are not classified as such by Irish coroners.

It seems probable that the "increase" recently is due to media attention preventing such deaths going unreported, not to a real increase.

That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest

BoJack Horseman

Fuhrer wrote: »

I was asking you if you thought it was murder, the staggering lengths you're going to not answer this questions tells me all I need to know about you.

Its pointless to go in point-scoting circles like this because murder is about motivation.... not outcome.

The line of questioning is moot, you should probably move on from it.

lazygal

Fuhrer wrote: »

I was asking you if you thought it was murder, the staggering lengths you're going to not answer this questions tells me all I need to know about you.

What do you need to know?
I've two children and I should have to right to abortion services in Ireland. Is that something to be ashamed of? Why is it ok for me to bring a foetus elsewhere to kill it but not ok to kill it here?

Fuhrer

lazygal wrote: »

What do you need to know?
I've two children and I should have to right to abortion services in Ireland. Is that something to be ashamed of? Why is it ok for me to bring a foetus elsewhere to kill it but not ok to kill it here?

For; what must be the fifth time asking now, would you consider someone doing what I described as murdering someone?

Grayson

Fuhrer wrote: »

Better standards here I suppose.


At what point should we be allowed to kill the fetus?

If someone walks up to a woman on her way to the hospital and hammer fists her in the gut killing the baby, is that just assault? Or murder?

How about you start earlier. take an embryo and not a foetus. There's no brain activity or even a brain. Is it ok to terminate at that point?

The reason I ask to to see if there's some common ground.

lazygal

Fuhrer wrote: »

For; what must be the fifth time asking now, would you consider someone doing what I described as murdering someone?

I've already said I don't know. Did you miss that? Maybe you could clarify why it's ok to bring the unborn elsewhere to kill them but we shouldn't be allowed to kill them here.

Fuhrer

Grayson wrote: »

How about you start earlier. take an embryo and not a foetus. There's no brain activity or even a brain. Is it ok to terminate at that point?

The reason I ask to to see if there's some common ground.

Sure its OK, its OK to kill a baby even after its born. If you're an inconvenience to someone else who has to care for you, why shouldn't they be able to bail out of the situation?

lazygal

Fuhrer wrote: »

Sure its OK, its OK to kill a baby even after its born. If you're an inconvenience to someone else who has to care for you, why shouldn't they be able to bail out of the situation?

Would you allow your body to be used to protect a born child's right to life for nine months?

Grayson

Fuhrer wrote: »

Sure its OK, its OK to kill a baby even after its born. If you're an inconvenience to someone else who has to care for you, why shouldn't they be able to bail out of the situation?

Listen Mr Hitler. If you don't want to actually engage in a conversation, that's your business but stop wasting everyone's time.

eviltwin

eviltwin wrote: »

She didn't take the abortion pill. She took medication for arthritis in a large dose to induce a miscarriage. Its not the same as the abortion pill which was designed for that specific purpose.

On the advice of a clinic in the Uk. I doubt she's the only to do so.

Fuhrer

lazygal wrote: »

Would you allow your body to be used to protect a born child's right to life for nine months?

That would be the decent thing to do, wouldn't it?


But like I said before, if I just didn't like the kid or I wanted to go on holiday somewhere; **** it, let him die.

Frigga_92

Abortion under any circumstances should be safe and legal.
It is not for me to decide what anyone else does with their body.

Some comments on this thread appear to suggest that abortion is easy and something you decide on a whim, "Oh I must head over to the UK this weekend to get that abortion, Ryanair have cheap flights".
There is nothing easy about having an abortion, whether you are a victim of rape, whether you are carrying an unviable foetus, whether you simply do not feel ready for a child, whether you do not want a child with your current partner, there are lots of reasons and they are all valid to the person making the decision, they shouldn't need to be acceptable to anyone else.

BoJack Horseman

Legal.
Safe
Rare.

(To quote President Matt Santos.)

lazygal

Fuhrer wrote: »

That would be the decent thing to do, wouldn't it?


But like I said before, if I just didn't like the kid or I wanted to go on holiday somewhere; **** it, let him die.

Yeah. Women have abortions to go on holidays. And kill their children because they don't like them. Now I know exactly what you think of women. I'm sure you're also of the view that women wouldn't stay pregnant ever at all if they had access to abortion that didn't involve a flight elsewhere where they're allowed to kill the unborn.

Fuhrer

lazygal wrote: »

Yeah. Women have abortions to go on holidays. And kill their children because they don't like them. Now I know exactly what you think of women. I'm sure you're also of the view that women wouldn't stay pregnant ever at all if they had access to abortion that didn't involve a flight elsewhere where they're allowed to kill the unborn.

Yes, I'm sure you're also of the view that every child should always be killed.


See what I did there?