Oral dose, Injection or Pour-on

Parishlad

I have a variety of cattle that need to be dosed.
Suckler cows, suckler calves, bucket fed calves, stores (18 mths old) and stronger 2/2.5 yr old cattle.

Have been looking online for different fluke and worm products.

Fluke
Can get Tribex 10% (5L) for €125 on Agridirect or Triclaben 10% (5L) for €100. Both will do for all three stages of fluke and from I can see have the same active ingredient as the much more expensive Fasinex. I have the usual doubt/debate in my head though about getting what you pay for. So the question is (again) are the cheaper doses mentioned above as good as the more expensive one?

Edit: Have just seen Triclaben 10% on MagentaDirect for €85.00

Worms

Haven't fully decided what to go for yet. Probably something like Bimectin injection (€66 for 500ml with gun on Magenta). Although I see Animec Injection on Agridirect for €25 for 250ml.

Plan is to do all cattle with the oral dose for fluke and injection for worms. All calves have been treated for worms throughout the Summer. Have Spot On for lice also.

Would be interested in what ye think of this as a dosing plan?

Limestone Cowboy

Bodacious wrote: »

I dosed all the cows there Monday


Tramazole 10%
(cheap fluke and worm white drench containing Albendazole) 100ml down the hatch


12ml-14ml of turbomec behind the shoulder (ivermectin based product) for worms/lice etc


outwinter them so next dose they get now will be feb/ march .. when I will be giving them the allsure boluses 6 weeks prior to calving

Is it ok to give two doses like that at once? Have a bunch of heifers that will be out wintered aswell that need to be done for fluke and worms. Was going to go with trodax and follow up in a week with noromectin but would be much handier to do both at once if I thought it would be ok...

eoinmk2

just talking to the guy we get our dose off today, he was saying that there were a good few lads coming back to him saying the dose are not really work affectively.
he reckons the resistance to ivermectin is starting to become a problem. anyone on here running into this resistance problem?

Count Mondego

eoinmk2 wrote: »

just talking to the guy we get our dose off today, he was saying that there were a good few lads coming back to him saying the dose are not really work affectively.
he reckons the resistance to ivermectin is starting to become a problem. anyone on here running into this resistance problem?

There are cheap *mectin products that you can buy in bulk off magenta direct and other websites, I've tried them and they are shyte. Back to using Noromectin and getting good results again. Don't know why as they should all have the same active ingredient and same rate. I also interleave each does with an Albendazole dose just in case.

Count Mondego

Parishlad wrote: »

Probably something like Bimectin injection (€66 for 500ml with gun on Magenta). Although I see Animec Injection on Agridirect for €25 for 250ml.

I bought last years equivalent of this, Turbomec, 3 X 500ml for €70 from Magenta. I'd have been as well off injecting holy water into them. Also, the 500ml bottle will still only last a month or there abouts. You'd want to be doing a lot of injecting at 1ml per 50kg to get through in. I'll only be buying 100ml bottles anymore.

PS. Find magenta a great site and buy a good bit of stuff there.

Brass Tag

Count Mondego wrote: »

There are cheap *mectin products that you can buy in bulk off magenta direct and other websites, I've tried them and they are shyte. Back to using Noromectin and getting good results again. Don't know why as they should all have the same active ingredient and same rate. I also interleave each does with an Albendazole dose just in case.

I agree. Used Noromectin past few years. Must say I had my doubts about it!
Changed to Bimectin this year ..... My doubts are still there.
Going for the original next year. Ivomec. It does what it says on the tin. Cheap in the long run.

orm0nd

Brass Tag wrote: »

I agree. Used Noromectin past few years. Must say I had my doubts about it!
Changed to Bimectin this year ..... My doubts are still there.
Going for the original next year. Ivomec. It does what it says on the tin. Cheap in the long run.

these are all ivermectin AFAIK , if not happy why not change to Doramectin or similar

Agri Direct are a good offer on Zearl just now (maybe magenta have it too haven't checked but certainly cheaper than local supplier)

gave my calves a dose last July (zearl) and haven't been dosed until last friday , they got Turbomec and will housed in about 10 days

I am a fan of the cheap "ivomecs" expecially for older heavier stock but would limit their usage to one dose per year , hoping not to build up resistance

Farmer Pudsey

Have used generic Avermectins for years. Bimectin kilomec, Animec, have Turbomec but not used yet. Have no issue with them. However I always treat at about 30-50kgs heavier than they are.

No point in getting small quanties as these are as expensive as 500ml bottles.

Sami23

Opinions Please:
With Black Friday on the horizon and the need to get some medicine in what do people find more effective: POUR ON or INJECTION. Will most likely be Ivomec or one of its generics I'll be using ?

White Clover

Sami23 wrote: »

Opinions Please:
With Black Friday on the horizon and the need to get some medicine in what do people find more effective: POUR ON or INJECTION. Will most likely be Ivomec or one of its generics I'll be using ?

I'd rather injection myself.

As an aside, I used to always do a belt and braces job on winter dosing. Liver fluke, rumen fluke worms etc.
This year I dung sampled each pen of cattle.
All came back negative for liver fluke and worms.
Only a low positive for rumen fluke in 2 pens and I can see the couple in each pen that require a dose. The remainder won't get anything this winter bar lice treatment.
I saved a nice bit of money.

Sami23

White Clover wrote: »

I'd rather injection myself.

As an aside, I used to always do a belt and braces job on winter dosing. Liver fluke, rumen fluke worms etc.
This year I dung sampled each pen of cattle.
All came back negative for liver fluke and worms.
Only a low positive for rumen fluke in 2 pens and I can see the couple in each pen that require a dose. The remainder won't get anything this winter bar lice treatment.
I saved a nice bit of money.

Sounds like a very good strategy.
What do you use for lice

White Clover

Sami23 wrote: »

Sounds like a very good strategy.
What do you use for lice

The last couple of years I used spotinor. Backs and tails clipped too, I think it helps alot.

charolais0153

Does anyone sprinkle limo on the backs of cattle?

greysides

White Clover wrote: »

I'd rather injection myself

So would I, more certain the ingredient will get where it's needed. If using an avermectin, check the effectivity of the product against lice when used by the two methods as there could be a difference. Lice would be an important target at this time of year.

As an aside, I used to always do a belt and braces job on winter dosing. Liver fluke, rumen fluke worms etc.
This year I dung sampled each pen of cattle.
All came back negative for liver fluke and worms.
Only a low positive for rumen fluke in 2 pens and I can see the couple in each pen that require a dose. The remainder won't get anything this winter bar lice treatment.
I saved a nice bit of money.

Good approach.

For weanlings I think a more thorough treatment plan would be better. For beef cows in good condition, the plan in the example would be good. Dairy cows need a thorough clean out I think, as they are more 'high performance' than beef cows. For yearling and older stores that plan seems good.

Points to ponder include:

1. Liver fluke sampling can give false negatives very easily. The growing time in the animal before they can lay eggs is long and may not have been reached at the time of sampling. Also, egg shedding is intermittent.

2. The presence of Rumen Fluke is quite common. They are shed by the adults which are harmless. The harm is caused by the juvenile stages who numbers are not reflected by the egg numbers. While presence is common, problems due to them are not. A farm history of previous problems, or not, should colour your decision.

3. Don't use products that won't kill inhibited/Type II worms as a winter dose. There's no virtue in waiting to dose animals for a period after housing if you're only using a wormer.

4. The various flukicides will require different waiting periods after housing if you wish to kill all in one go. Ask the retailer.

5. Beware what products you use on Dairy cows, the list is small.

6. Read the datasheet BEFORE use as withdrawal times change.

White Clover

greysides wrote: »

So would I, more certain the ingredient will get where it's needed. If using an avermectin, check the effectivity of the product against lice when used by the two methods as there could be a difference. Lice would be an important target at this time of year.




Good approach.

For weanlings I think a more thorough treatment plan would be better. For beef cows in good condition, the plan in the example would be good. Dairy cows need a thorough clean out I think, as they are more 'high performance' than beef cows. For yearling and older stores that plan seems good.

Points to ponder include:

1. Liver fluke sampling can give false negatives very easily. The growing time in the animal before they can lay eggs is long and may not have been reached at the time of sampling. Also, egg shedding is intermittent.

2. The presence of Rumen Fluke is quite common. They are shed by the adults which are harmless. The harm is caused by the juvenile stages who numbers are not reflected by the egg numbers. While presence is common, problems due to them are not. A farm history of previous problems, or not, should colour your decision.

3. Don't use products that won't kill inhibited/Type II worms as a winter dose. There's no virtue in waiting to dose animals for a period after housing if you're only using a wormer.

4. The various flukicides will require different waiting periods after housing if you wish to kill all in one go. Ask the retailer.

5. Beware what products you use on Dairy cows, the list is small.

6. Read the datasheet BEFORE use as withdrawal times change.

Hi Greysides,
They are 16 to 24 months. The samples were taken 6 weeks after housing. Do you think this is a sufficient time to give accurate results from the samples? I only got the results yesterday and I was considering levafas diamond as the dose to use.

Tig98

White Clover wrote: »

The last couple of years I used spotinor. Backs and tails clipped too, I think it helps alot.

Seconding the clipping, think you've no business doing any pour on without it

funkey_monkey

severeoversteer wrote: »

probably most effective if you clip the cattles backs

I thought closamectin had a warning against putting it onto clipped backs?

Jjameson

I think closamectin is mostly ingested from licking themselves. This is my personal opinion. However it works well here whatever the route.
Very handy stress free for man and beast is a Godsend.

greysides

White Clover wrote: »

Hi Greysides,
They are 16 to 24 months. The samples were taken 6 weeks after housing. Do you think this is a sufficient time to give accurate results from the samples? I only got the results yesterday and I was considering levafas diamond as the dose to use.

Yikes!

Six weeks after housing, youngest fluke is 6 weeks old, oldest is.... unknown. Most flukes are available on pasture from September on, with numbers increasing as time goes on...So, roughly, you're looking at eggs coming from fluke which went in before the end of August. If they are in good nick (of course they are, great year for grass) then I'd check again in 6-8 weeks for accuracy and not bother dosing. You'd want to consider the farms circumstances though: location, weather, soil type.

Levafas Diamond is levamisole with oxyclozanide.

Levmisole doesn't cover Type II. It's a summer dose only in my book. People use it.... it's works fine where it's not needed!

Oxyclozanide is sold on its own as Zanil. Great, great fluke dose. When it first came out in comparison to what was previously available. Now...... no!
Only kills adult fluke (over 12 weeks in), the ones that lay eggs. The eggs you don't currently have....

Only use nowadays is for Rumen fluke that you probably don't need to do anything about.

So other than it's completely inappropriate for you want to use it for, it's perfect.

I think I'd dose them with a white wormer, say Albex, at the worm only dose level.

Depending on your assessment of fluke, you could use Trodax, Flukiver (they get fluke from 6 weeks in the animal) or you could have used Fasinex after they had been housed for 2 weeks. Or you could wait and re-sample.


BTW, the flukicide is Ivomec Super, Bimectin Plus or similar, is only effective against adult fluke too.

QA1

charolais0153 wrote: »

Does anyone sprinkle limo on the backs of cattle?

Yes did it today never use lime before but find most pouring useless

Jjameson

https://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2927&Itemid=3281

Scroll to end of article. Grooming accounts for most of pour on absorption.

trabpc

Ordered pour on off Glanbia online.

Used code SAVE20 at checkout and got 20% off.

Sami23

trabpc wrote: »

Ordered pour on off Glanbia online.

Used code SAVE20 at checkout and got 20% off.

Agri Direct and Magenta Direct will have Black Friday sales also

trabpc

Sami23 wrote: »

Agri Direct and Magenta Direct will have Black Friday sales also

Not a black friday thing. I got it 3 weeks ago.

Delivery took 8 days though.....