Should Childless couples be taxed more?

24-10-2014 5:40pm #1

Should Childless couples be taxed more be they straight, gay or from Mars?

We are often told that to keep society going we need to grow the population, the kids we have today will pay for our social services when we grow old and retire. Things such as hospitals, pensions etc.

We used to award child benefit to help cover the cost of child raising however today the money given back to parents through child benefits hardly touch the surface of the true cost of children`s upbringing.

According to the Irish Interdependent in 2009 a report claimed that the average cost of raising a child was around €120,000

He estimated in 2002 that it cost an average of €120,000 to raise a child from birth to age 18, and that didn't include the costs of going to college.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/raising-children-can-be-extremely-expensive-26514758.html

Child benefit stands at €130 which over 18 years equal to around €28,000 far short of the €120,000 figure quoted.

Is it fair that parents should take such a huge hit and only share the same benefits and entitlements as those who choose not to have children at retirement?

In fact those who choose not to have children can enjoy a much more selfish lifestyle and go onto earn considerable more than a household trying to raise a child and yet when it comes to retirement they still enjoy the same rights and privileges.

So should we tax those who choose not to have kids more than what they currently pay?

wazky · 24-10-2014 5:41pm

They should be forced to mate with eachother while I watch. If they refuse, I shall mate with the female half of the couple.

shruikan2553 · 24-10-2014 5:43pm

They already pay for child benefit, schools etc and if they are able to focus on their careers then they pay even more tax.

Berserker · 24-10-2014 5:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So should we tax those who choose not to have kids more than what they currently pay?

We do as is.

Fat Christy · 24-10-2014 5:44pm

The population is set to rise in the coming years to a point where it will no longer be sustainable. I, personally, don't think we should be encouraging people to have more children....

AnonoBoy · 24-10-2014 5:45pm

Should people who don't drink pay more tax than functioning alcoholics?

K.Flyer · 24-10-2014 5:45pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Should Childless couples be taxed more be they straight, gay or from Mars?

Some people should really think before they ask a question.

For Forks Sake · 24-10-2014 5:45pm

This thread will not end well. That is all.

shruikan2553 · 24-10-2014 5:46pm

For Forks Sake wrote: »

This thread will not end well. That is all.

It ends how it began.

AnonoBoy · 24-10-2014 5:46pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

Some people should really think before thy ask a question.

Should people who ask questions be taxed more than those who just do as they're told?

24-10-2014 5:46pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

They already pay for child benefit, schools etc and if they are able to focus on their careers then they pay even more tax.

Everybody pays for that if they are working, the point I am raising is that when it comes to retirement those who choose not to have kids enjoy the same rights and privileges as those who did have kids, yet those with kids paid far more to have them despite the kids of the future paying for everything in their taxes.

How Soon Is Now · 24-10-2014 5:47pm

Seriously why the **** make threads like this?
You already know deep down its a stupid idea which makes no sense.

All its going to do is bring up all the same crap that usually comes out about who's bringing the country down and who's playing for what/who.

tinkerbell · 24-10-2014 5:47pm

Eh.... No. Like WTF?

Fr_Dougal · 24-10-2014 5:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Should Childless couples be taxed more be they straight, gay or from Mars?

We are often told that to keep society going we need to grow the population, the kids we have today will pay for our social services when we grow old and retire. Things such as hospitals, pensions etc.

We used to award child benefit to help cover the cost of child raising however today the money given back to parents through child benefits hardly touch the surface of the true cost of children`s upbringing.

According to the Irish Interdependent in 2009 a report claimed that the average cost of raising a child was around €120,000

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/raising-children-can-be-extremely-expensive-26514758.html

Child benefit stands at €130 which over 18 years equal to around €28,000 far short of the €120,000 figure quoted.

Is it fair that parents should take such a huge hit and only share the same benefits and entitlements as those who choose not to have children at retirement?

In fact those who choose not to have children can enjoy a much more selfish lifestyle and go onto earn considerable more than a household trying to raise a child and yet when it comes to retirement they still enjoy the same rights and privileges.

So should we tax those who choose not to have kids more than what they currently pay?

Haven't quite though this through, have you?

24-10-2014 5:47pm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Should people who don't drink pay more tax than functioning alcoholics?

Or should those who drink pay an extra few cent where that goes to the HSE for Alcohol related illness?

Sauve · 24-10-2014 5:48pm

What happens to couples who want, but can't have children?

HeidiHeidi · 24-10-2014 5:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Everybody pays for that if they are working, the point I am raising is that when it comes to retirement those who choose not to have kids enjoy the same rights and privileges as those who did have kids, yet those with kids paid far more to have them despite the kids of the future paying for everything in their taxes.

This gave me a headache.

Does it actually make any sense?

Gran Hermano · 24-10-2014 5:49pm

Plenty of couples with children and on social welfare.
Are they not a bigger drain on the economy, especially where intergenerational welfare dependency is the norm for some?

What about childless people who have already taken private provisions for healthcare/housing/pensions?

We can always import labour from EU and beyond in the future should we have a shortage.

For Forks Sake · 24-10-2014 5:49pm

TheZohan wrote: »

Haven't quite though this through, have you?

Well after the spectacular failure of their "Gardai won't let imaginary sick children go to hospital thread'....you have to take another nonsensical tack I suppose.

24-10-2014 5:49pm

TheZohan wrote: »

Haven't quite though this through, have you?

Why?

I have highlighted that overall those with kids are providing far more to society than those without kids on average.

shruikan2553 · 24-10-2014 5:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Everybody pays for that if they are working, the point I am raising is that when it comes to retirement those who choose not to have kids enjoy the same rights and privileges as those who did have kids, yet those with kids paid far more to have them despite the kids of the future paying for everything in their taxes.

Everyone pays for it and only those with children get it. The people without children are still helping to fund others to have children as it is.

Children cost money, this is well known. If you have a problem with the cost of children then dont have any.

24-10-2014 5:50pm

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Plenty of couples with children and on social welfare.
Are they not a bigger drain on the economy, especially where intergenerational welfare dependency is the norm for some?

What about childless people who have already taken private provisions for healthcare/housing/pensions?

We can always import labour from EU and beyond in the future should we have a shortage.

Certainly when you consider those who have kids who just go onto the dole themselves you have a point, however there are those who have childcare and they go onto become net benefactors to society.

Fr_Dougal · 24-10-2014 5:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why?

I have highlighted that overall those with kids are providing far more to society than those without kids on average.

Do you pay tax? Because according to your posts both you and your wife are on the dole and claiming welfare for your kids.

GreenwayM · 24-10-2014 5:50pm

Definitely not . . . I am not married / in a relationship but, if I was, I don't think I would be having kids

Why should I pay for other families to "breed like rabbits" . . . Yielding uncontrolled / unschooled kids . . .

We are the sensible / disciplined ones!

AnonoBoy · 24-10-2014 5:51pm

Should people who annoy everyone by posting moronic garda-baiting videos online be taxed more than people who have a bit of cop-on?

24-10-2014 5:51pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Everyone pays for it and only those with children get it. The people without children are still helping to fund others to have children as it is.

Children cost money, this is well known. If you have a problem with the cost of children then dont have any.

But if we had a society that didn't have enough children we would collapse, you can import immigration to an extent but without childcare you just gain a bigger more aging population with huge social costs.

AnonoBoy · 24-10-2014 5:52pm

GreenwayM wrote: »

Why should I pay for other families to "breed like rabbits" . . . Yielding uncontrolled / unschooled kids . . .

I'm pretty sure disciplined children cost as much IF NOT MORE than unruly children.

All those elocution lessons!

Gatling · 24-10-2014 5:52pm

Must be a quite on a certain "says no" facebook page

24-10-2014 5:53pm

GreenwayM wrote: »

Definitely not . . . I am not married / in a relationship but, if I was, I don't think I would be having kids

Why should I pay for other families to "breed like rabbits" . . . Yielding uncontrolled / unschooled kids . . .

We are the sensible / disciplined ones!

When you retire the children you have will go on to pay taxes which in turn will support your retirement.

Who is supporting those who didn't have children?

shruikan2553 · 24-10-2014 5:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

But if we had a society that didn't have enough children we would collapse, you can import immigration to an extent but without childcare you just gain a bigger more aging population with huge social costs.

When people are avoiding having children then we can consider more incentives. We currently do not have that problem so why would we want people to pay more for other peoples children?

24-10-2014 5:53pm

TheZohan wrote: »

Do you pay tax? Because according to your posts both you and your wife are on the dole and claiming welfare for your kids.

Yes I pay tax, what post are you referring to where I said I was on the dole?

K.Flyer · 24-10-2014 5:54pm

Popcorn anyone

tinkerbell · 24-10-2014 5:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why?

I have highlighted that overall those with kids are providing far more to society than those without kids on average.

Eh no. You're assuming that every single one of those kids are gonna be paying high income taxes from their mid 20s to age 68.

For Forks Sake · 24-10-2014 5:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes I pay tax, what post are you referring to where I said I was on the dole?

You're not going to go with the "I pay VAT on everything" line are you?

24-10-2014 5:54pm

Sauve wrote: »

What happens to couples who want, but can't have children?

But they would still gain from the benefit of other peoples children when it came to retirement.

24-10-2014 5:55pm

For Forks Sake wrote: »

You're not going to go with the "I pay VAT on everything" line are you?

Eh? No I work.

Karl Stein · 24-10-2014 5:55pm

I like cheeseburgers.

24-10-2014 5:55pm

tinkerbell wrote: »

Eh no. You're assuming that every single one of those kids are gonna be paying high income taxes from their mid 20s to age 68.

High or Low income, it matters not because they pay more tax than just direct taxation.

Fat Christy · 24-10-2014 5:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Eh? No I work.

I would love to have been at your interview.

Fr_Dougal · 24-10-2014 5:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes I pay tax, what post are you referring to where I said I was on the dole?

Your posting history is there for all to see, as is mine.

Karl Stein · 24-10-2014 5:57pm

The onions have to be finely chopped on my cheeseburger. I don't like chunky onions.

24-10-2014 5:57pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

When people are avoiding having children then we can consider more incentives. We currently do not have that problem so why would we want people to pay more for other peoples children?

Ireland's birth rate continues to decline - ESRI

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1119/487550-perinatal-statistics-esri/

Tar.Aldarion · 24-10-2014 5:58pm

People that don't want children are already taxed in the likes of child benefit. We all pay it, parent benefit from it.

24-10-2014 5:58pm

TheZohan wrote: »

Your posting history is there for all to see, as is mine.

Again, what post are you referring too?

HeidiHeidi · 24-10-2014 5:59pm

OP, does every thread you start wind up being closed?

Just asking, as I'm currently taking bets with myself how long this one is going to last......

How Soon Is Now · 24-10-2014 5:59pm

It goes quite in AH for a day or two then someone decides to make a thread likr this and boom!

24-10-2014 5:59pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

People that don't want children are already taxed in the likes of child benefit. We all pay it, parent benefit from it.

Cost of raising a child in 2002 €120,000

Child benefit over 18 years €28,000

shruikan2553 · 24-10-2014 5:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland's birth rate continues to decline - ESRI

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1119/487550-perinatal-statistics-esri/

Keep reading

Ireland's birth rate is the highest in Europe versus the EU average of 10.4.

Fat Christy · 24-10-2014 5:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, what post are you referring too?

Your posts in state benefits about being unemployed for years.....

24-10-2014 6:00pm

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

OP, does every thread you start wind up being closed?

Just asking, as I'm currently taking bets with myself how long this one is going to last......

Not at all, only had one thread closed and that was because posters went off topic

Karl Stein · 24-10-2014 6:00pm

A bit of mayonnaise and shredded lettuce on the bottom lightly toasted bun, minced steak burger, finely chopped onion, grated cheddar cheese and a squirt of Heinz ketchup.

Yum.

Should Childless couples be taxed more?

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