Golf Memberships

tonc76

Slightly off topic but I'm interested in joining a club in Waterford as a distance member and am a full member in a club in Kildare which I have just renewed. Does anyone foresee difficulty in my handicap being maintained by my home club or how will the handicap work? Will my distance club cards just show as away scores?

Mods feel free to move.

First Up

onlyfinewine wrote: »

Societies are not supposed to allow membership to the society without GUI cards, but obviously it does not always happen. On the plus side a lot of people joined clubs after joining their work or local society first.

I am open to correction but I don't think that is correct. Most societies include a lot of people who only play society golf and only have their "society" handicaps. I thought that was the whole point of societies - to facilitate people who cannot or don't want to join clubs.
Society outings are essentially private events, like corporate outings and have no impact on GUI events or handicaps. I am in a society and play there under a different handicap to my GUI.

First Up

tonc76 wrote: »

Slightly off topic but I'm interested in joining a club in Waterford as a distance member and am a full member in a club in Kildare which I have just renewed. Does anyone foresee difficulty in my handicap being maintained by my home club or how will the handicap work? Will my distance club cards just show as away scores?

Mods feel free to move.

As far as I know, you will have the same handicap in both clubs and scores in either or both clubs' competitions will be used for adjustments.

golfwallah

tonc76 wrote: »

Slightly off topic but I'm interested in joining a club in Waterford as a distance member and am a full member in a club in Kildare which I have just renewed. Does anyone foresee difficulty in my handicap being maintained by my home club or how will the handicap work? Will my distance club cards just show as away scores?

Mods feel free to move.

What usually happens is that the club where you are a full member is designated as your "home club" under the system.

For fine details talk to your club handicap secretary or, if you have the time, Google "Congu" and read up on how it works yourself (take a little time, but is relatively easy to do).

golfwallah

onlyfinewine wrote: »

Societies are not supposed to allow membership to the society without GUI cards, but obviously it does not always happen. On the plus side a lot of people joined clubs after joining their work or local society first.

First Up wrote: »

I am open to correction but I don't think that is correct. Most societies include a lot of people who only play society golf and only have their "society" handicaps. I thought that was the whole point of societies - to facilitate people who cannot or don't want to join clubs.
Society outings are essentially private events, like corporate outings and have no impact on GUI events or handicaps. I am in a society and play there under a different handicap to my GUI.

I'm in two societies and handicap secretary of one. Both are aligned to the Golfing Union of Ireland and use the GUI recommended handicap system for societies.

Tried unsuccessfully to get access to the recommended GUI society rules on the relatively new GUI site but do have a copy that was handed down for a previous handicap secretary (would need to phone GUI to get the most up to date version, if you want it).

The point about a requirement for society members to have a GUI handicap is not correct. Holders of GUI handicaps are not permitted to use society handicaps outside society competitions.

Society members with GUI handicaps are obliged to play off their GUI handicaps, but most societies I'm familiar with use a +/- points system and their own version of standard sctatch.

See here for link to Golf Society of Ireland Rules.

First Up

golfwallah wrote: »

I'm in two societies and handicap secretary of one. Both are aligned to the Golfing Union of Ireland and use the GUI recommended handicap system for societies.

Tried unsuccessfully to get access to the recommended GUI society rules on the relatively new GUI site but do have a copy that was handed down for a previous handicap secretary (would need to phone GUI to get the most up to date version, if you want it).

The point about a requirement for society members to have a GUI handicap is not correct. Holders of GUI handicaps are not permitted to use society handicaps outside society competitions.

Society members with GUI handicaps are obliged to play off their GUI handicaps, but most societies I'm familiar with use a +/- points system and their own version of standard sctatch.

See here for link to Golf Society of Ireland Rules.

Yes, that would be my experience also. Some societies revert to GUI handicaps (for those who have them) at the start of their year and then adjust as their competitions take place.

Mushy

I'm thinking of joining Slievenamon on distance membership this year coming. I was last a distance member in Templemore in 2013, so got a handicap there but couldn't afford it at time this year. Would I still have to do the 3 card rule? Or would my handicap still be in the system and just be re-activated? Live in Cork city, don't drive, don't have money for any more in way of memberships but would be nice to get to play in comps.

grip n rip

Mushy wrote: »

I'm thinking of joining Slievenamon on distance membership this year coming. I was last a distance member in Templemore in 2013, so got a handicap there but couldn't afford it at time this year. Would I still have to do the 3 card rule? Or would my handicap still be in the system and just be re-activated? Live in Cork city, don't drive, don't have money for any more in way of memberships but would be nice to get to play in comps.

If this is a wind up its a good one 👠but if not you better prepare to be judged by the esteemed "full" members !!

Mushy

grip n rip wrote: »

If this is a wind up its a good one 👠but if not you better prepare to be judged by the esteemed "full" members !!

It's actually not, I was tentitive posting it. I can understand both sides of the arguement but hey, not my fault I don't have money for full golf club memberships each year.

grip n rip

Mushy wrote: »

It's actually not, I was tentitive posting it. I can understand both sides of the arguement but hey, not my fault I don't have money for full golf club memberships each year.

You wont get any argument from me , im with you all the way , work out approx what you can afford and ring around.

cairny

grip n rip wrote: »

If this is a wind up its a good one 👠but if not you better prepare to be judged by the esteemed "full" members !!

You've been told quite a lot that it's the distance clubs that people have the issue with not the members.

alxmorgan

Mushy wrote: »

I'm thinking of joining Slievenamon on distance membership this year coming. I was last a distance member in Templemore in 2013, so got a handicap there but couldn't afford it at time this year. Would I still have to do the 3 card rule? Or would my handicap still be in the system and just be re-activated? Live in Cork city, don't drive, don't have money for any more in way of memberships but would be nice to get to play in comps.

Your handicap will have lapsed and regardless you need 3 cards in your home club to qualify to play opens so i'm afraid you are out of luck.

grip n rip

cairny wrote: »

You've been told quite a lot that it's the distance clubs that people have the issue with not the members.

No mate , i've been told that distance members are a parasite on golf , that people would not play with or sign the card of slievenamon members (im not one) , that my attitude to playing opens as a cheap club member shouldnt be allowed and lastly i've apparently been told to "watch this space".

So no mate i've been told a lot more than that.

cairny

Mushy wrote: »

I'm thinking of joining Slievenamon on distance membership this year coming. I was last a distance member in Templemore in 2013, so got a handicap there but couldn't afford it at time this year. Would I still have to do the 3 card rule? Or would my handicap still be in the system and just be re-activated? Live in Cork city, don't drive, don't have money for any more in way of memberships but would be nice to get to play in comps.

Is it worth or necessary joining a club though? I'm assuming you don't play a lot as In once a week? If I were in your shoes I think I'd put the money towards books of green fees for Mahon, I think it works out at about 15 a round and its a pretty good course. You'd miss out on comps but get to play more golf.

cairny

grip n rip wrote: »

No mate , i've been told that distance members are a parasite on golf , that people would not play with or sign the card of slievenamon members (im not one) , that my attitude to playing opens as a cheap club member shouldnt be allowed and lastly i've apparently been told to "watch this space".

So no mate i've been told a lot more than that.

One person said he wouldn't sign cards and he was roundly condemned. Parasite was only used to describe the clubs I think.

Quit calling me 'mate' please it comes across as passive aggressive.

grip n rip

cairny wrote: »

One person said he wouldn't sign cards and he was roundly condemned. Parasite was only used to describe the clubs I think.

Quit calling me 'mate' please it comes across as passive aggressive.

Only if u read it so chum , not meant to be

grip n rip

cairny wrote: »

Is it worth or necessary joining a club though? I'm assuming you don't play a lot as In once a week? If I were in your shoes I think I'd put the money towards books of green fees for Mahon, I think it works out at about 15 a round and its a pretty good course. You'd miss out on comps but get to play more golf.

Good idea

PARlance

cairny wrote: »

Is it worth or necessary joining a club though? I'm assuming you don't play a lot as In once a week? If I were in your shoes I think I'd put the money towards books of green fees for Mahon, I think it works out at about 15 a round and its a pretty good course. You'd miss out on comps but get to play more golf.

Or joining a local society might be a good shout. The lack of wheels would mean opens would be hard to arrange anyway. At least with a society they would have a large group to ask for a lift from. It would probably bring a nice bit of variety and quality too in terms of courses.

Can't imagine it would be any more expensive than paying 150 odd for distance and a few opens.

First Up

cairny wrote: »

One person said he wouldn't sign cards and he was roundly condemned. Parasite was only used to describe the clubs I think.

Quit calling me 'mate' please it comes across as passive aggressive.

No, the people who take out distance memberships for the sole purpose of playing courses paid for by others are parasites. The clubs that facilitate this by flogging distance memberships are unprincipled opportunists.
It is important to get the terminology right.

cairny

First Up wrote: »

No, the people who take out distance memberships for the sole purpose of playing courses paid for by others are parasites. The clubs that facilitate this by flogging distance memberships are unprincipled opportunists.
It is important to get the terminology right.

Couldn't disagree with you more. The clubs are taking money and providing nothing. Definition of a parasite.

The members are just acting like rational consumers. (I mean rational in the pure economics sense).

grip n rip

First Up wrote: »

No, the people who take out distance memberships for the sole purpose of playing courses paid for by others are parasites. The clubs that facilitate this by flogging distance memberships are unprincipled opportunists.
It is important to get the terminology right.

This is about the level of debate i like to avoid . Ignorance is no excuse for stupidity.

Dayor Knight

First Up wrote: »

No, the people who take out distance memberships for the sole purpose of playing courses paid for by others are parasites. The clubs that facilitate this by flogging distance memberships are unprincipled opportunists.
It is important to get the terminology right.

We've already had it proposed that clubs are entitled to charge what the market will bear. On the same logic, clubs are entitled to charge as little as they like for different categories of membership to try to keep their clubs going. Presumably they're also entitled to run opens at whatever rate they think will bring players in. And golfers are entitled to play in open competition offered by clubs.And you want to pass comment on other players and call them parasites!? Wow. A bit of seasonal cheer might be in order.

FixdePitchmark

First Up wrote: »

No, the people who take out distance memberships for the sole purpose of playing courses paid for by others are parasites. The clubs that facilitate this by flogging distance memberships are unprincipled opportunists.
It is important to get the terminology right.

Is there a club in the land that doesn't have opens ?

I can think of a few , but they are to do with the tourist trade.

ie. Portmarnock - Royal Dublin etc.

First Up

cairny wrote: »

Couldn't disagree with you more. The clubs are taking money and providing nothing. Definition of a parasite.

The members are just acting like rational consumers. (I mean rational in the pure economics sense).

The definition of a parasite is one who benefits at the expense of another. In the instance of distance membership you could argue that both the facilitating clubs and their members are behaving parasitically but the members unquestionably are. Rational consumer behaviour and parasitic behaviour are not mutually exclusive.

cairny

First Up wrote: »

The definition of a parasite is one who benefits at the expense of another. In the instance of distance membership you could argue that both the facilitating clubs and their members are behaving parasitically but the members unquestionably are. Rational consumer behaviour and parasitic behaviour are not mutually exclusive.

The members are contributing a fee...a reduced contribution but a contribution nonetheless...the clubs are taking this without having to cater for members actually playing their course ie contributing nothing. This is the parasitical behaviour.

First Up

Dayor Knight wrote: »

We've already had it proposed that clubs are entitled to charge what the market will bear. On the same logic, clubs are entitled to charge as little as they like for different categories of membership to try to keep their clubs going. Presumably they're also entitled to run opens at whatever rate they think will bring players in. And golfers are entitled to play in open competition offered by clubs.And you want to pass comment on other players and call them parasites!? Wow. A bit of seasonal cheer might be in order.

That would be grand if the different categories of membership meant anything beyond the confines of the club concerned. Clubs can sell memberships at whatever price they like but that shouldn't require other clubs to treat them all equally.

A distance member should get associate GUI status, with differentiated benefits from full members. Entitlements wouldn't change, but costs might vary.

First Up

cairny wrote: »

The members are contributing a fee...a reduced contribution but a contribution nonetheless...the clubs are taking this without having to cater for members actually playing their course ie contributing nothing. This is the parasitical behaviour.

I can buy that, but I don't exclude the people from doing it from also being parasites.

Russman

Whilst I'm against the principle of distance memberships being used to facilitate cheap golf because of its impact on the game as a whole and on struggling clubs, I wonder could the charge of unprincipled opportunists be made against clubs charging, whatever, say €10k, joining fees, just because they can ?

My own club has struggled a lot in recent years with members leaving, a lot of whom have gone the "distance" route to get a handicap and play opens. We're certainly not an elite club with joining fees to match, so I can see the effect the distance thing can have on other clubs. I don't blame the clubs or the players though, Slievenamon or any other club have no obligation to ensure that my €1k club on the outskirts of Dublin, or a Grange or a Castle within the M50 ring, have the market we want/need. No more than I can blame some fella who has lost his job but wants to still have a few games of golf, from taking the best option for himself. I blame the gui for letting the situation get to where it is, and they're now playing catch up with the 3 card rule. But I'm sure they also have their eye on the €20 they get for each member also, so I don't think they'll push much further tbh. I fear they'd rather have people staying in the game, and if x number of clubs have to close, so be it from their point of view.

grip n rip

First Up wrote: »

That would be grand if the different categories of membership meant anything beyond the confines of the club concerned. Clubs can sell memberships at whatever price they like but that shouldn't require other clubs to treat them all equally.

A distance member should get associate GUI status, with differentiated benefits from full members. Entitlements wouldn't change, but costs might vary.

All gui membership is the same , you are not more a gui member if you pay higher club membership fees. Like i said before maybe you would like to see us wear a yellow star while golfing ?

Russman

First Up wrote: »

A distance member should get associate GUI status, with differentiated benefits from full members.

I was sort of leaning towards that earlier in the thread, there is a certain logic to it, but having thought it through a bit more, I don't think it would work. What if there was a club somewhere and their full membership cost less than distance membership elsewhere ? Would it be done by description of membership type or the annual sub paid ? I think it's dangerously close to someone somewhere deciding what is an acceptable amount of money for someone to pay to have full GUI rights, no matter where they play. Like, unless you pay X amount to the upkeep of a course somewhere, you can't be a full GUI member or can't play more than 5 opens a year.