Switching to Android (Recommendations)

kevin306

Always had an iPhone and making the switch to android(finally). Just looking for peoples opinions. I'm thinking of either going bill and getting the HTC M8 or buying the G3 outright. Note 4 and nexus 6 I'll leave aside, because of price.Should I be looking elsewhere. Is the OPO really up their in standard with the other flagship phones.

MuppetCheck

Personally if you're moving I'd avoid anything Samsung. They just cheapen the experience imo.

The M8 is a fantastic phone, and is high quality too. The sense skin over android is my favourite from all the manufacturers. Another one that should be added to the list is the Xperia Z3. Very snappy, excellent battery and build.

kevin306

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Personally if you're moving I'd avoid anything Samsung. They just cheapen the experience imo.

The M8 is a fantastic phone, and is high quality too. The sense skin over android is my favourite from all the manufacturers. Another one that should be added to the list is the Xperia Z3. Very snappy, excellent battery and build.

Really avoid Samsung! See so many S5's around, I know it is made of plastic which cheapens the look, but taught the overall performance would be good. HTC seems to be a lot of peoples favorite any taughts on G3.

ghogie91

I have the Note 3

Cracking piece of kit, I love it, have never had a bad experience with Samsung and have owned all the galaxies to date

daytob

heard loads of recent complaints from people about the g3. I agree with above stay away from samsung, its just a nightmare to deal with, and touchwiz is awful. having saying that, given you are coming from apple you might like it * its not a slagging either, its to kinda dip your toe into the android platform and then move into full stock droid.
try get a 1+1

jimmii

I have used a load of different Android phones the last few years. Right now the Sony Xperia series phones are probably the best and they are water proof too which is handy! I just got a oneplusone last week and so far I've been very impressed if you are looking for a <€400 handset then you can't really beat it. Its trickier to get than the others but you are getting a great value bit of kit and looks and performs as good as most €600 handsets.

brevity

Had a iPhone 5 for 2-3 years and just after switching to the Sony z3. Its a great phone. Great build quality, lovely screen, battery life is good as well. No complaints so far.

MuppetCheck

kevin306 wrote: »

Really avoid Samsung! See so many S5's around, I know it is made of plastic which cheapens the look, but taught the overall performance would be good. HTC seems to be a lot of peoples favorite any taughts on G3.

I had a couple of S5s and trust me, don't waste your money on them. There's much better out there.

kevin306

I would be open to getting the OPO. Just want to get the best phone I can get with my money. Is OPO as good as Z3.

listermint

kevin306 wrote: »

I would be open to getting the OPO. Just want to get the best phone I can get with my money. Is OPO as good as Z3.

Id go into a store and ask to see the Z3 feel it touch it play with it. And perhaps someone here might let you look at the OPO.

I fear recommending phones to people as everyones feel and expectation is different.

For example i would never ever recommend samsung to anyone as theyve tainted the experience with touchwiz nonsense. That said some people live obviously happy with them.

jimmii

kevin306 wrote: »

I would be open to getting the OPO. Just want to get the best phone I can get with my money. Is OPO as good as Z3.

I was using the Z1 before I would say the OPO is as good the Z3 in general but a little more rough around the edges! If you are a phone geek then OPO is great as you get a lot more info available then you do on other Android handsets. It is a little bit more buggy though but not enough to really be a problem although I have found that one game I used to play is almost unplayable on the OPO. My major concern was that it wasn't waterproof I got used to not having to worry about using my phone in the rain while using the Sony!

Thorin

I'll weigh in for the HTC One M8. I've got it on bill pay with 3, and I'm very happy with it. I upgraded from the previous HTC One X, and it's actually a marked improvement even from the last generation. Better battery life, better sound, better call quality.

symbolic

I'll give the thumbs up for Samsung.

I've a Note 2 since it was released. Still does everything I need, which is annoying as I love buying new gadgets.

Bough the Zerolemon battery for it for when I'm travelling. (great for planes and trains etc, lasts forever) and a 64gb sd card packed with movies and TV.

Chrome browser runs perfect on it along with all the apps I use. Nice screen. Although never use the s pen myself. But is handy for screenshots and annotations on images. Don't get the hate for touchwiz, BUT Samsung note is first android I ever had, so I guess if I get around to a nice Nexus someday I might see why people hate it. I use Nova Launcher for my home screen and then I'm in and out of chrome and my apps the rest of the time.

Samsung really did a great job on the Notes imo.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Have you considered the Nexus 5, it costs around €300, you can buy on google.ie and it runs stock android none of this HTC sense and touch whiz bloatware to deal with.

kevin306

Michelle Whining Saber wrote: »

Have you considered the Nexus 5, it costs around €300, you can buy on google.ie and it runs stock android none of this HTC sense and touch whiz bloatware to deal with.

Ya price is very appealing. Pardon my ignorance but what is touch wiz and HTC sense

Fresh Pots

kevin306 wrote: »

Ya price is very appealing. Pardon my ignorance but what is touch wiz and HTC sense

They are customised user interfaces. The Nexus will have stock android. Much nicer imo.

v638sg7k1a92bx

kevin306 wrote: »

Ya price is very appealing. Pardon my ignorance but what is touch wiz and HTC sense

If you consider an iPhone and bear in mind how Apple is running iOS which is developed and distributed by Apple which on runs on their devices so you get a pure Apple/iOS experience.

What Google has done is that they have developed Android (their version of iOS) and allowed other third party manufacturers to take that software and make a load of changes to it so that the software looks and feels completely different to the original android version that Google has developed. The end result of these changes is Sense for HTC phones and Touch Whiz for Samsung phones.

The problem with this is that HTC/Samsung etc are tinkering with an already very well developed and intuitive operating system to the extent that when Google releases and update HTC and Samsung have to catch up and tinker with their own software so that all the apps and software works the way it's supposed to. The other thing is that quite often some of the apps will work fine on HTC but not necessarily on a Samsung because although the app was developed to work with Google it hasn't been developed to work with HTC sense or touch whiz. This is the reason why you hear Apple/iOS users often complain about Android phones because they don't consider them as stable.

Nexus phones are popular with "real" android users because it doesn't have any of the HTC Sense or Samsung Touch Whiz bloatware that people complain about.

kevin306

Michelle Whining Saber wrote: »

If you consider an iPhone and bear in mind how Apple is running iOS which is developed and distributed by Apple which on runs on their devices so you get a pure Apple/iOS experience.

What Google has done is that they have developed Android (their version of iOS) and allowed other third party manufacturers to take that software and make a load of changes to it so that the software looks and feels completely different to the original android version that Google has developed. The end result of these changes is Sense for HTC phones and Touch Whiz for Samsung phones.

The problem with this is that HTC/Samsung etc are tinkering with an already very well developed and intuitive operating system to the extent that when Google releases and update HTC and Samsung have to catch up and tinker with their own software so that all the apps and software works the way it's supposed to. The other thing is that quite often some of the apps will work fine on HTC but not necessarily on a Samsung because although the app was developed to work with Google it hasn't been developed to work with HTC sense or touch whiz. This is the reason why you hear Apple/iOS users often complain about Android phones because they don't consider them as stable.

Nexus phones are popular with "real" android users because it doesn't have any of the HTC Sense or Samsung Touch Whiz bloatware that people complain about.

Thanks for that, couldn't have explained it any better.So technically nexus should be run smoothest of all android phones correct as it has the original android software

v638sg7k1a92bx

kevin306 wrote: »

Thanks for that, couldn't have explained it any better.So technically nexus should be run smoothest of all android phones correct as it has the original android software

I'm not a developer but that's my understanding. Also, the operating system looks and feels completely different down to the default txt messaging app, contacts app, the calendar will be the HTC version as opposed to the Google calendar (but you can download the google calendar separately) the default email client is different, the settings menu, everything! The only manufacturer that I've seen which is as close to vanilla android as you can get was on the Moto G which is a great entry level android phone at approx €150. With the exception of a few Motorola apps it is the closest you can get. If you wanted a phone with better spec have a look at the Moto X which is getting great review and you can design the phone yourself using Moto Maker. If it's the same as the Moto G then it will be running very close to vanilla android.

I also think you can get the HTC M8 with stock android from the Google Play store but not sure if it was ever available in Ireland.

bidiots

Michelle Whining Saber wrote: »

Have you considered the Nexus 5, it costs around €300, you can buy on google.ie and it runs stock android none of this HTC sense and touch whiz bloatware to deal with.

Great phone but battery life is terrible.
Go to a store and play with a few. Latest models all have similar spec so personal taste will decide it. I plumped for a Z3 because I need a waterproof phone. Its a lovely piece of kit.

8-10

brevity wrote: »

Had a iPhone 5 for 2-3 years

iPhone 5 was launched 2 years ago last month, to say that's 2-3 years is stretching it a little even if you got it the first day of release

brimal

bidiots wrote: »

Great phone but battery life is terrible.
Go to a store and play with a few. Latest models all have similar spec so personal taste will decide it. I plumped for a Z3 because I need a waterproof phone. Its a lovely piece of kit.

I think it's worth noting that Android 5.0 will be released very soon for the Nexus 5. This upgrade is meant to increase battery life of the phone by 30-40%

Thecageyone

kevin306 wrote: »

Always had an iPhone and making the switch to android(finally). Just looking for peoples opinions. I'm thinking of either going bill and getting the HTC M8 or buying the G3 outright. Note 4 and nexus 6 I'll leave aside, because of price.Should I be looking elsewhere. Is the OPO really up their in standard with the other flagship phones.

I made the jump from iPhone to Android very recently. I used iphones since the original 4 came out. I never really got on with the 5, I also have an iPad which I love, so I think it was the screen. Too skinny for my liking, found it very fiddly for typing. I'd always make mistakes and have to go back over everything. Annoying.

Just fancied a change at the same time, and when offered the upgrade on Three billpay, I decided to go for the M8. And I adore it! Everything about it, almost, I prefer over the iPhone. The only thing I miss is the actual app store, Google's isn't anywhere near as good. But you get used to it. If you have a G+ account you're good to go for most things. If not, just make one up.

The screen is the big jump, that resoloution, the deeper blacks, the better contrast and vibrancy - I've compared it alongside an iphone 5, with the same apps running, and it's amazing! Much better clarity. If you watch movies and play music on your phone you'll love the higher res, bigger screen and better sound. The best speakers I've heard on any mobile device, very punchy, rich sound.

And ignore anyone who says the camera isn't great, despite the lower MP count, I actually, genuinely think it's better than the iPhone 5/s camera. Better contrast, low light performance, controls

Very solid bit of kit. If you do get one though, get a back cover protector asap. I got a cheap transparent one on ebay for about a fiver, the phone still looks great [I got the blue one, think you can only get that on Three?] - I can just see that lovely brushed aluminium back on the phone get scratched to bits if you put it in a pocket with keys or coins :eek:

advertsfox

kevin306 wrote: »

Ya price is very appealing. Pardon my ignorance but what is touch wiz and HTC sense

Layers or skins over stock Android which usually add some different layouts, features but generally more bloat. They have got vastly better over the years but I'm a big lover the stock look especially with Android L. Nexus 5 is my recommendation, great spec and price and available for Android updates immediately (unlock non stock phones with TouchWiz etc. which will require the manufacturer to make sure they're own personal apps are updated and themes merged).

From left to right - Stock Android 4.4 KitKat, Samsung TouchWiz, LG Optimus UI, HTC Sense 6 and Sony Xperia UI.



Android Lollipop 5.0 below:

sony z2 available on vodafone ready to go for 400 - if you port a number (order a sim from other e.g. meteor to get a number to use) you get 20 euro off so 380. fantastic phone. z3 only a minor upgrade over z2 and z2 itself just about 6 months out. unlock if you need to from online code unlocker for $20 or so. this price is cheapest anywhere.
great deal. waterproof, still top of the line processor, beautiful looking device (glass and metal all around) with big screen but not too big phone overall , 2 day battery life, dedicated camera button which is very handy, built in noise cancelling, expandable storage with micro sd slot etc.
sony ui less bloat than any of samsung etc and they tend to be quicker and better with android updates (samsung are AWFUL with updates).

http://shop.vodafone.ie/shop/phones/sony-xperia-z2-pay-as-you-go-black

nexus 5 decent but generally known for sh1t battery life and bog standard camera. for me the water and dustproof aspect of the Sony Z series is great.

one plus good value - ~340 euro after sterling conversion for 64gb but too big for me and not waterproof and looks nowhere near as nice as Z2 imo

BKWDR

Have used Samsung for the past few years since my iphone 3gs. S2 and have had three S3's along the way. Have recently cracked my screen and the battery is acting the maggot so thinking of buying a phone outright

Michelle Whining Saber wrote: »

Have you considered the Nexus 5, it costs around €300, you can buy on google.ie and it runs stock android none of this HTC sense and touch whiz bloatware to deal with.

bidiots wrote: »

Great phone but battery life is terrible.
Go to a store and play with a few. Latest models all have similar spec so personal taste will decide it. I plumped for a Z3 because I need a waterproof phone. Its a lovely piece of kit.

How bad IS the battery? is it standard to get a full day out of it with constant use?

Got to play around with the new Xperia Z3 Compact and liked the feel of it. Sick of these phones that are too big. The battery seems to be a big seller and 20MP camera and feels good in hand, but first time il be spending this much money (450e) on a phone so don't want to regret it in 8-12 months.


With the Z3 Compact as a front runner, is there any other phone that you would DEFO put before it or is it a solid buy? Is the Sony interface full of bloat ware?

Thanks in advance

BionicRasher

Thecageyone wrote: »

The only thing I miss is the actual app store, Google's isn't anywhere near as good. But you get used to it. If you have a G+ account you're good to go for most things. If not, just make one up.

Just out of interest what do you find the Play Store lacks in comparison to Apple Store?

Just to clarify also you don't need a Google+ account to use all of Androids goodies. A Google+ account is not required for someone to use an Android device. You are most likely to get the best experience if you have a Google account and a G+ profile but just a Google account would do also. Most people who use them will have a Google+ profile, but there will be some who do not.

BKWDR

BKWDR wrote: »

Have used Samsung for the past few years since my iphone 3gs. S2 and have had three S3's along the way. Have recently cracked my screen and the battery is acting the maggot so thinking of buying a phone outright





How bad IS the battery? is it standard to get a full day out of it with constant use?

Got to play around with the new Xperia Z3 Compact and liked the feel of it. Sick of these phones that are too big. The battery seems to be a big seller and 20MP camera and feels good in hand, but first time il be spending this much money (450e) on a phone so don't want to regret it in 8-12 months.


With the Z3 Compact as a front runner, is there any other phone that you would DEFO put before it or is it a solid buy? Is the Sony interface full of bloat ware?

Thanks in advance

z3 compact best option if you must have a smaller type phone as it's pretty much the only smaller android phone that has the power of a bigger phone. sony ui known as the least bloated of the non-stock (google) ui's. samsung probably being the worst (although some people do like touchwiz I suppose).

kevin306

Never realized Sony were producing such top of the range phones. I've narrowed it down to the Z3 on bill or buy the OPO. Nexus 5 battery life seems to be a major issue, so I'm going to steer clear. The spec on the OPO is so attractive, and I've heard very little negatives about it, I'm really thinking of getting it, any drawbacks people know of.

BKWDR

I think i've made my mind up now on the Z3 Compact. Thanks guys , 450e on Vodafone seems to be the trick

BKWDR

BKWDR wrote: »

I think i've made my mind up now on the Z3 Compact. Thanks guys , 450e on Vodafone seems to be the trick

save 20 euro by ordering a free meteor sim. once you get it (1/2 days) stick in an unlocked phone or meteor phone. order z3 compact on vodafone.ie with the number move option. get code on meteor number by text. enter code on ordering process. throw away meteor sim. 20 euro saved.

DublinBeaker

I am thinking of going the other way. Have had an S2, S3, M7 One. Thinking of getting the iphone6 over the M8.
M8 would cost me a fraction of the price of iphone and I keep thinking why. Just for a new toy.

BionicRasher

glasso wrote: »

z3 compact best option if you must have a smaller type phone as it's pretty much the only smaller android phone that has the power of a bigger phone. sony ui known as the least bloated of the non-stock (google) ui's. samsung probably being the worst (although some people do like touchwiz I suppose).

In my experience the Sony UI is not great. lots of bloat in there and not very close to stock at all. Really nice hardware let down badly by the software. It tends to be buggy and lags an awful lot.
Motorola probably the closest to stock or if you can get a Google Play Edition device.
My advice (not that any will heed it) is stay clear of the Sony

BionicRasher

BionicRasher wrote: »

In my experience the Sony UI is not great. lots of bloat in there and not very close to stock at all. Really nice hardware let down badly by the software. It tends to be buggy and lags an awful lot.
Motorola probably the closest to stock or if you can get a Google Play Edition device.
My advice (not that any will heed it) is stay clear of the Sony

which model are you basing this on? I have the z2 (3gb ram)and it's very responsive - never lags. if you don't like the sony ui you can easily install a launcher...

BKWDR

BionicRasher wrote: »

In my experience the Sony UI is not great. lots of bloat in there and not very close to stock at all. Really nice hardware let down badly by the software. It tends to be buggy and lags an awful lot.
Motorola probably the closest to stock or if you can get a Google Play Edition device.
My advice (not that any will heed it) is stay clear of the Sony

AH lord, just before i could unfollow thread!!

Can you root the phone and just put Kit Kat on it?

BKWDR

BKWDR wrote: »

AH lord, just before i could unfollow thread!!

Can you root the phone and just put Kit Kat on it?

opinions differ on this - some people prefer one over the other - go into a store and have a look at the phones. if you use a launcher app you can change the look of any phone without rooting.

BionicRasher

glasso wrote: »

which model are you basing this on? I have the z2 (3gb ram)and it's very responsive - never lags. if you don't like the sony ui you can easily install a launcher...

Tried and owned a good few. S, T, U, M, E, E1, Tipo have all spent some time in my house and I have had relatives purchase some Xperia phones and call me to try to fix or speed them up, they were all the same. Nice hardware software was not great. Lots of bloat like Timescape, FB connect yolk, Album, Some iffy camera apps, the dialer was awful. Some nice stuff but overall I think the only way to go is as close to stock as possible.
I know it's fine to say install a launcher or root to get rid of the bloat but out of the box the Sony UI is not great in my experience

Currently we have a Moto a Nexus and a Samsung in the house and Nexus is streets ahead with Moto not too far behind but the Samsung is now rooted and running Slimkat as TouchWiz was awful. We still have a backup of a Sony Xperia U but I dread ever having to use it in an emergency.

brevity

I've had a Sony x10 before and that did have some bloatware but the Z3 is pretty good imo. Nothing installed that's noticeably intrusive. The ui has changed a lot too. Not as "heavy" as the x10

BKWDR

Ok didn't know what people were talking about when they typed 'OPO' but now have read the threads and my curiosity is peaked. Is it a game changer phone? Is it worth looking into?

Bit of a hassle to pre order / get invite etc

BKWDR

BKWDR wrote: »

Ok didn't know what people were talking about when they typed 'OPO' but now have read the threads and my curiosity is peaked. Is it a game changer phone? Is it worth looking into?

Bit of a hassle to pre order / get invite etc

it's really very good value for the hardware. having seen and played around with one it's just a tiny bit too big for me and is not as premium in finish as some other phones. cost is about €340 for the 64gb model delivered after allowing for sterling.

BKWDR

glasso wrote: »

it's really very good value for the hardware. having seen and played around with one it's just a tiny bit too big for me and is not as premium in finish as some other phones. cost is about €340 for the 64gb model delivered after allowing for sterling.

Actually had just twigged the size, it would be bigger than my S3 which is what i am trying to move away from i guess. Can't beat that value though

BKWDR

BKWDR wrote: »

Actually had just twigged the size, it would be bigger than my S3 which is what i am trying to move away from i guess. Can't beat that value though

it would be WAY bigger than an S3.

see this.

http://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Samsung-Galaxy-S5,Samsung-Galaxy-S-III/phones/8202,6330#/phones/size/Samsung-Galaxy-S-III,OnePlus-One/phones/6330,8603

BKWDR

glasso wrote: »

it would be WAY bigger than an S3.

see this.

http://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Samsung-Galaxy-S5,Samsung-Galaxy-S-III/phones/8202,6330#/phones/size/Samsung-Galaxy-S-III,OnePlus-One/phones/6330,8603

Very handy site!

You're right. Great value but yeah the size is a bit too much, would kill the hand of ya...

dRNk SAnTA

For what it's worth, I'm an experienced Android user and have been considering upgrades recently - if I were choosing, my shortlist (Short...ish) would be:

- Sony Z3 (5.2 inch screen)
- Sony Z3 Compact (4.6 inch screen, but with similar power as above)
- HTC One M8 (Universally loved)
- Moto X
- Nexus 5
- Nexus 6 (Almost the same as Moto X but larger screen)
- Moto G (if on a very tight budget)
- One Plus One (difficult to purchase though)
- OPPO Find 7 (also might be difficult to find)
- Samsung Galaxy Alpha (Nice phone but: Samsung's software is a pain and overpriced)

Personally, I think I'll go with a Sony. I think it looks beautiful and has plenty of power, good camera, good screen, and great battery life. But it is made of glass front and back, so I'll go feel it before purchasing (as another poster suggested).

dRNk SAnTA

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

For what it's worth, I'm an experienced Android user and have been considering upgrades recently - if I were choosing, my shortlist (Short...ish) would be:

- Sony Z3 (5.2 inch screen)
- Sony Z3 Compact (4.6 inch screen, but with similar power as above)
- HTC One M8 (Universally loved)
- Moto X
- Nexus 5
- Nexus 6 (Almost the same as Moto X but larger screen)
- Moto G (if on a very tight budget)
- One Plus One (difficult to purchase though)
- OPPO Find 7 (also might be difficult to find)
- Samsung Galaxy Alpha (Nice phone but: Samsung's software is a pain and overpriced)

Personally, I think I'll go with a Sony. I think it looks beautiful and has plenty of power, good camera, good screen, and great battery life. But it is made of glass front and back, so I'll go feel it before purchasing (as another poster suggested).

z2 is available for a lot cheaper if you're going to buy outright, i.e. not on billpay. 400 vs 570 on vodafone ready to go for example. there is very little difference between the z2 and z3 as Sony release new phones every 6 months as opposed to once a year for other manufacturers.

dRNk SAnTA

glasso wrote: »

z2 is available for a lot cheaper if you're going to buy outright, i.e. not on billpay. 400 vs 570 on vodafone ready to go for example. there is very little difference between the z2 and z3 as Sony release new phones every 6 months as opposed to once a year for other manufacturers.

You're right, but I just prefer the appearance of the Z3 and I'm vain. Definitely the Z2 offers better value.

uck51js9zml2yt

I'm probably throwing the cat into the bag here but since the OP was mentioned..
Why not look at the Xiaomi Mi3 / Mi4. Or the zte nubia z7 mini/ max.

I had the Mi3 a few weeks until my son decided it helped him teething.
I'm waiting on a new screen from China but it was a really nice phone.
I'm looking at the z7 mini as a replacement

glasso

glasso wrote: »

z2 is available for a lot cheaper if you're going to buy outright, i.e. not on billpay. 400 vs 570 on vodafone ready to go for example. there is very little difference between the z2 and z3 as Sony release new phones every 6 months as opposed to once a year for other manufacturers.

just to specify differences

2.5ghz vs 2.3ghz processors
Very marginally smaller and thinner - nothing in it except a mm here or there.

screen is a bit brighter but it's fine on z2. z2 over z1 was a big upgrade. it's marginal in z3 vs z3.

also with the Z2 you get the noise cancelling earphones which don't come with the z3.

I have the z2 and I love it - coming from samsung it's way better.

I got white and recommend it - less visible fingerprints on the back and the front is all black anyways.

use the sim port trick that I mentioned above to get it for €380.

Discodog

I got a bargain new Nexus 5 for €260 on eBay. It's a superb phone. I nearly bought the Opo but wasn't sure about the size.

The Nexus is so smooth.

Riesen_Meal

Discodog wrote: »

I got a bargain new Nexus 5 for €260 on eBay. It's a superb phone. I nearly bought the Opo but wasn't sure about the size.

The Nexus is so smooth.

Buttery smooth...

:P

If I do get a Nexus 6 it will be a while yet, still haven't decided if I want a bigger screen on my phone, I work outdoors mainly so I prefer something relatively small in my pocket...

Discodog

Fieldog wrote: »

Buttery smooth...

:P

If I do get a Nexus 6 it will be a while yet, still haven't decided if I want a bigger screen on my phone, I work outdoors mainly so I prefer something relatively small in my pocket...

I definitely wouldn't get the Nexus 6. The 5 is more than adequate. I too work outdoors & the Nexus 5 with a Spigen Slim Armour case is perfect - still fits a shirt pocket.