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    #32
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    YellowFeather wrote: »
    Cloud isn't a buzzword? Of course it's a bunch of servers - somewhere. We haven't yet discovered a way to make something out of nothing.

    It is a buzzword. How is the 'cloud' any different than a server farm from 2001 that had backups and load balancing and remote login capability? Please explain...


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    #33
    Doylers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,704 ✭✭✭Doylers


    I think what we should be learning from all this is that our data is store more and more online and we can play ignorance as a defence. People need to start using password managers like lasts to generate secure password for every site that can't be brute forced or easily guessed. When a site offers 2 factor like dropbox, iCloud, lastspass, Facebook,paypal we should be enabling it.

    And don't take pictures of your junk with snapchat


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    #34
    paulbok
    Registered Users Posts: 4,915 ✭✭✭paulbok


    smash wrote: »
    It is a buzzword. How is the 'cloud' any different than a server farm from 2001 that had backups and load balancing and remote login capability? Please explain...

    Yep another buzzword, just like 'business solutions'
    Eircom business solutions, how is that different to providing phone/fax/email/broadband/mobile/(tv)


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    #35
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    smash wrote: »
    It is a buzzword. How is the 'cloud' any different than a server farm from 2001 that had backups and load balancing and remote login capability? Please explain...

    The difference is the server farm runs ESX or SoftLayer or similar. That aside it's right back to the '70s baby! :cool:


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    #36
    YellowFeather
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭YellowFeather


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Your sexting really isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things. The Internet hasn't changed the fundamental nature or importance of information that gets recorded or shared (compromising photos were the bedrock of many a political scandal in the pre Internet era). There's just an increase of the quantity and the speed of its transmission.

    If that photo not being shared is really, really important to you don't take it.

    I disagree entirely. It is true that nobody cares if I'm sexting or not (I hope). But, the fact is that our communication is now largely digital as opposed to an auld chat on the phone. Everything is now recordable. Whereas, before, a transaction would be carried out with a discussion and a formal letter afterwards; these days, everything is put through email. Leaving a record..


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    #37
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    YellowFeather wrote: »
    I disagree entirely. It is true that nobody cares if I'm sexting or not (I hope). But, the fact is that our communication is now largely digital as opposed to an auld chat on the phone. Everything is now recordable. Whereas, before, a transaction would be carried out with a discussion and a formal letter afterwards; these days, everything is put through email. Leaving a record..

    The letter and phone calls were also records? :confused:


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    #38
    YellowFeather
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭YellowFeather


    smash wrote: »
    It is a buzzword. How is the 'cloud' any different than a server farm from 2001 that had backups and load balancing and remote login capability? Please explain...

    It's not a buzzword. Maybe back in the day when you had a server farm with backups and load balancing and you would explain how super your security was by using the word "cloud", it was a buzzword.

    Now it's a hugely utilised reality and an actual concept.

    Not a buzzword.


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    #39
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    YellowFeather wrote: »
    It's not a buzzword. Maybe back in the day when you had a server farm with backups and load balancing and you would explain how super your security was by using the word "cloud", it was a buzzword.

    Now it's a hugely utilised reality and an actual concept.

    Not a buzzword.

    It's a server farm with virtual machines and a HTTPS interface. I build the sodding things.


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    #40
    YellowFeather
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭YellowFeather


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    The letter and phone calls were also records? :confused:

    I don't get your point. Out of everything I said, you chose to come back and say that the letter and the phone calls were also records. I'm interested in this and would like to discuss it genuinely. I really don't get your point, and I'm only responding in the hope that you might have misunderstood me.


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    #41
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    YellowFeather wrote: »
    It's not a buzzword. Maybe back in the day when you had a server farm with backups and load balancing and you would explain how super your security was by using the word "cloud", it was a buzzword.

    Now it's a hugely utilised reality and an actual concept.

    Not a buzzword.

    Now it's an actual concept :pac: :pac: :pac:


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    #42
    YellowFeather
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭YellowFeather


    jimgoose wrote: »
    It's a server farm with virtual machines and a HTTPS interface. I build the sodding things.

    Fair play. :)


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    #43
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    The thought that international criminals could be targeting my riveting conversations about football, sh1t jokes and incredibly interesting family pictures is truly disturbing.


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    #44
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    smash wrote: »
    The Cloud.... THE CLOUD.....

    fecking buzzword, the 'cloud' is just a bunch of serves. Data has always been stored on servers! You worry about sending a message on what's app? Then just send a text message, phone someone, send a carrier pidgeon! :rolleyes:

    SMS are kept on file for 3 years by the operators too


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    #45
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    nm wrote: »
    SMS are kept on file for 3 years by the operators too

    In a file cyaaabinet!! <ahem> sorry, couldn't help it! :pac:


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    #46
    JustAddWater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭JustAddWater


    AstraOwner wrote: »
    Imagine the panic if Whatsapp was hacked and everybody's messages were uploaded to a searchable database. You could read your partners (friends, family members) every message. They could read yours. See every picture, every message you ever sent.


    That'd be awkward.

    Why? What are you sending? :D


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    #47
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    YellowFeather wrote: »
    It's not a buzzword. Maybe back in the day when you had a server farm with backups and load balancing and you would explain how super your security was by using the word "cloud", it was a buzzword.

    Now it's a hugely utilised reality and an actual concept.

    Not a buzzword.

    You seem to think that the concept of cloud computing is about security... it's not!


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    #48
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    smash wrote: »
    You seem to think that the concept of cloud computing is about security... it's not!

    Jaysis, that's about the last thing it's about. Andy Tanenbaum is still right about the station-wagon! :pac:


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    #49
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    You can establish a huge amount of cast iron personal privacy right now by discontinuing Internet use and changing your phone and the nature of how you use it. That's a choice that will always be available to you.
    That's a false choice, as the Internet is becoming ever more necessary in everyday life.

    Instead, you properly regulate the companies, and make them have proper privacy standards, and impose massive fines on them for breaches.


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    #50
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    YellowFeather wrote: »
    I don't get your point. Out of everything I said, you chose to come back and say that the letter and the phone calls were also records. I'm interested in this and would like to discuss it genuinely. I really don't get your point, and I'm only responding in the hope that you might have misunderstood me.

    :confused:

    You said:
    YellowFeather wrote: »
    I disagree entirely. It is true that nobody cares if I'm sexting or not (I hope). But, the fact is that our communication is now largely digital as opposed to an auld chat on the phone. Everything is now recordable. Whereas, before, a transaction would be carried out with a discussion and a formal letter afterwards; these days, everything is put through email. Leaving a record..

    To which I said:
    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    The letter and phone calls were also records? :confused:

    i.e. that all transactions with state or private institutions pre Internet were recorded and archived somewhere. You seem to have an idea that technology has changed that fact. It's just changed how / where the data is held, not that it is held.


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    #51
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    That's a false choice, as the Internet is becoming ever more necessary in everyday life.

    Instead, you properly regulate the companies, and make them have proper privacy standards, and impose massive fines on them for breaches.

    I don't disagree in regulating standards and imposing fines for breaches of same. But I think people are misinformed and unrealistic when it comes to where the bar for those regulated standards should live.


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    #52
    YellowFeather
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭YellowFeather


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    :confused:

    You said:



    To which I said:



    i.e. that all transactions with state or private institutions pre Internet were recorded and archived somewhere. You seem to have an idea that technology has changed that fact. It's just changed how / where the data is held, not that it is held.

    Ah - ok. Totally my fault. I should have said 'retrievable' instead.


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    #53
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I don't disagree in regulating standards and imposing fines for breaches of same. But I think people are misinformed and unrealistic when it comes to where the bar for those regulated standards should live.
    Well, my view on it, is that I know perfect security is likely not completely possible, but there is enormous room for raising the bar/standards - which should be done.

    I mean, just look at how many companies are getting hacked and leaking data, while only really receiving a slap on the wrist - being lax with customers privacy, only leads to 'cost of doing business' fines (if any at all), so there's little incentive to really have good standards, and plenty of incentive (profit) to have very poor standards - they need to start getting hit with fines that threaten their financial existence.


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    #54
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    YellowFeather wrote: »
    Ah - ok. Totally my fault. I should have said 'retrievable' instead.

    Define 'retrievable'? The Internet has been around a long time as has hacking of networks related to it. Physical capturing of data has always been lurking there aswell.

    Really this is about putting more content out there. That additional content is often trivial.
    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Well, my view on it, is that I know perfect security is likely not completely possible, but there is enormous room for raising the bar/standards - which should be done.

    I mean, just look at how many companies are getting hacked and leaking data, while only really receiving a slap on the wrist - being lax with customers privacy, only leads to 'cost of doing business' fines (if any at all), so there's little incentive to really have good standards, and plenty of incentive (profit) to have very poor standards - they need to start getting hit with fines that threaten their financial existence.

    Drawing the line is a complex issue. We don't want to discourage the offering of services that there is a demand for. I think that allied to looking for higher efforts at identifying possible vulnerabilities and future proofing against same we also have to populate more disclaimers to people using such services. Some people seem almost unaware that risk exists.


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    #55
    YellowFeather
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭YellowFeather


    smash wrote: »
    You seem to think that the concept of cloud computing is about security... it's not!

    Um- why do you say that? I don't think that the concept of cloud computing is about security.
    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Define 'retrievable'?

    That which is capable of being retrieved. :p

    Nah - the point I was trying to make (and clearly I did it badly) was that you referenced phone calls and letters as being records. You're totally right (apart from the majority of phone calls..), but what I was going for was 'retrievable' - in a legal perspective - within your power, possession, or procurement, and being an actual thing.


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    #56
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Drawing the line is a complex issue. We don't want to discourage the offering of services that there is a demand for. I think that allied to looking for higher efforts at identifying possible vulnerabilities and future proofing against same we also have to populate more disclaimers to people using such services. Some people seem almost unaware that risk exists.
    We do want to discourage services which have a lax standard of protection, for user privacy - even if they may otherwise be beneficial.

    It would be easy enough to setup an industry standards authority of some sort, with regulations on minimum training for programmers that will be involved with sensitive information, and regulations to ensure a safe minimum level of protections against data breaches (including having systems audited regularly) - coupled with massive fines for breaches.
    Otherwise companies just won't bother with the cost, of what is required to keep user data private/safe.

    We have the 'seed' of that, with data protection stuff, but it's not nearly good enough - huge room for improvement.


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    #57
    YellowFeather
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭YellowFeather


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Really this is about putting more content out there. That additional content is often trivial.

    Also - no. This isn't what this thread is about.
    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Drawing the line is a complex issue. We don't want to discourage the offering of services that there is a demand for. I think that allied to looking for higher efforts at identifying possible vulnerabilities and future proofing against same we also have to populate more disclaimers to people using such services. Some people seem almost unaware that risk exists.
    .

    I'd agree with this though .


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    #58
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    YellowFeather wrote: »
    Um- why do you say that? I don't think that the concept of cloud computing is about security.

    Um - Because you think a cloud is completely different than a server farm and talk about the word cloud previously being used to describe security on servers...


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    #59
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    YellowFeather wrote: »
    and I've defended cloud to the end.

    Can I just ask what you mean by this? 'Defended' in what context? Against what criticism?


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    #60
    YellowFeather
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭YellowFeather


    smash wrote: »
    Um - Because you think a cloud is completely different than a server farm and talk about the word cloud previously being used to describe security on servers...

    Ah - I wrote that response, somewhat tongue in cheek (mostly not though), as a reply to:
    smash wrote: »
    It is a buzzword. How is the 'cloud' any different than a server farm from 2001 that had backups and load balancing and remote login capability? Please explain...

    Totally disrailling the point. I was hoping for a bit of discussion on this. Nevermind. :(


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    #61
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    YellowFeather wrote: »
    I was hoping for a bit of discussion on this. Nevermind. :(

    The point stands that cloud is at it's core, not really different from how digital information has been stored for decades and as such it's a buzzword. Given this fact, why would you or anyone expect it to be any more secure than a server farm from over 10 years ago. You have to disregard software updates because as software updates, hacking techniques update too.


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