Cork GAA Discussion Thread

thinkstoomuch1

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

Ruairi Deane went off injured tonight with a shoulder injury playing for Bantry against Eire Og ...bad news we hope its not serious.

Hopefully not two serious but he imo wouldn't played cork anyway as this management cork don't rate him but will of course persist gould and recall past it imo now Alan o Connor and either those probably gould more so have a great game v Dublin in challenge next week as he consistently does but once championship comes around again on the field of play he will be way below the standard required for senior elite intercounty imo

thinkstoomuch1

youngbob wrote: »

i think Nash is going to be ready for Sunday. he was sick earlier in the week. it would be a big challenge for Collins but I,m sure he'd be up to it. his puck outs are top drawer. Interesting Cork team..will they play 3 midfielders with O'Shea? Will Lehane go roaming? Can't wait for Sunday. Cork could do with a national title before championship starts.REBELS ABU

O shea will be dropping deep and Walsh and kearney also probably kearney more so and lehane will not stay at full but roam at full forward

As for Murphy hopefully he'll be okay and as I tried telling waterford thread he's not or Ellis fully fit and with Nash doubt new full back waterford imo are favourites but they think it's yerra talk when geuinely it's not

commonsense.

Have to say, Cork bench looks lightweight to me. No real game changers there apart from Paudi in my view. And all logic would suggest that our new full back could be under real pressure tomorrow. JBM has to try something at no 3 and I hope it works out. But the odds are against it. Are Cork likely to end up as AI champions next Sept with Ryan full back? Personally I wouldn't be putting any money on that one.
And have we the strength in depth that will be required over the next 5 months to win the big one?
So many questions, so few answers. Ah such is the beauty of sport.
One step at a time though. Cork to win tomorrow.

thinkstoomuch1

commonsense. wrote: »

Have to say, Cork bench looks lightweight to me. No real game changers there apart from Paudi in my view. And all logic would suggest that our new full back could be under real pressure tomorrow. JBM has to try something at no 3 and I hope it works out. But the odds are against it. Are Cork likely to end up as AI champions next Sept with Ryan full back? Personally I wouldn't be putting any money on that one.
And have we the strength in depth that will be required over the next 5 months to win the big one?
So many questions, so few answers. Ah such is the beauty of sport.
One step at a time though. Cork to win tomorrow.

Odds are to an extent however no worse than o Neill or Mcdonnell and even Ryan held he's own v KK
Also Ryan has presence, leadership and played central position club Mcdonnell or o Neill didn't do well even club level

To answer your next question no cork as I said many times don't have strength in depth regards the panel when you have kearney sullivan lawton to rely on as game changers

To answer another question that I have answered last two years here consistently no cork won't come close to all Ireland unless full back sorted
Full back in all evolution modern game won't change

Best of luck to cork camoige tommorrow in league final another cork team with awesome coaching Paudie dunlea I praised many times here
See unlike cork football they have proven elite management

Also best luck limerick ladies footballers coached by cork Eddie Murphy today and course tipp with outstanding peter creedson selector tipp undrr twenty one football who does less talking cork football management but results prove on field play and he's ten times manger cork senior football will ever be based on records so far

Mountainlad

The last time Cork tried to play a conservative style it back fired hugely as Tipp completely dominated midfield. They were actually able to contain Callinan to a fair degree considering he was marking Shane O Neill and in an orthodox style with him unprotected as full back he would have been a lamb for the slaughter. Woodlock and Shane McGrath both got 3 points each and Cork's midfield having been much maligned for the Munster success didn't rise a gallop all game.

Waterford by contrast won the midfield battle the last day though Woodlock did still play well. I appreciate there is a difference between the challenge posed in April and that which Cork faced in August but I would not be one to assume that Cork will successfully adapt to this style if that is what they are going to do. They have basically no experience in playing it. Waterford have obviously improved the system used to work for them but it's based on the same foundations as the one which was blown apart a few times last year.

I think Waterford have played over 20 games since December, not sure exactly how many and all with the same style pretty much bar the run out for the second strings the last day. This was to get young players more familiar with playing this way as one of the most important aspects of it is communication. I don't think you can turn it on or off like a light switch, Cork could well be uncomfortable deviating from their normal game plan.

It makes sense

zetecescort wrote: »

Lehane at full forward given the form of Luke and particularly Paudie is a strange one imo, don't think Conor has ever played well in there

Totally agree lehane playing well at wing forward but what does paudie have to do to start a game obviously jbm sees him as the super sub

It makes sense

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Odds are to an extent however no worse than o Neill or Mcdonnell and even Ryan held he's own v KK
Also Ryan has presence, leadership and played central position club Mcdonnell or o Neill didn't do well even club level

To answer your next question no cork as I said many times don't have strength in depth regards the panel when you have kearney sullivan lawton to rely on as game changers

To answer another question that I have answered last two years here consistently no cork won't come close to all Ireland unless full back sorted
Full back in all evolution modern game won't change

Best of luck to cork camoige tommorrow in league final another cork team with awesome coaching Paudie dunlea I praised many times here
See unlike cork football they have proven elite management

Also best luck limerick ladies footballers coached by cork Eddie Murphy today and course tipp with outstanding peter creedson selector tipp undrr twenty one football who does less talking cork football management but results prove on field play and he's ten times manger cork senior football will ever be based on records so far

I salute jbm for at least giving Ryan a chance and no better than a final, he obviously realises than Cahalane is not the answer to the full back problem although I am not sure whether we have a full time solution yet, let's see how ryan gets on. Rest of team really picks itself at the moment although I would love to see paudie start but maybe he is saving him if cork are going to play a sweeper we will see. Sorry to see john Cronin miss out again again jbm seems to have his favourites and Lawton seems to be one of them nothing against Lawton as I am east cork but Cronin has had no chances compared to others but that's jbm's call.

Should be a good game tomorrow going down to which team wants it more tomorrow cork should prevail I hope to set up championship nicely.

zetecescort

weather looking like it could play a part now, scrappy games tend not to suit us.

Figsy32

Mountainlad wrote: »

The last time Cork tried to play a conservative style it back fired hugely as Tipp completely dominated midfield. They were actually able to contain Callinan to a fair degree considering he was marking Shane O Neill and in an orthodox style with him unprotected as full back he would have been a lamb for the slaughter. Woodlock and Shane McGrath both got 3 points each and Cork's midfield having been much maligned for the Munster success didn't rise a gallop all game.

Waterford by contrast won the midfield battle the last day though Woodlock did still play well. I appreciate there is a difference between the challenge posed in April and that which Cork faced in August but I would not be one to assume that Cork will successfully adapt to this style if that is what they are going to do. They have basically no experience in playing it. Waterford have obviously improved the system used to work for them but it's based on the same foundations as the one which was blown apart a few times last year.

I think Waterford have played over 20 games since December, not sure exactly how many and all with the same style pretty much bar the run out for the second strings the last day. This was to get young players more familiar with playing this way as one of the most important aspects of it is communication. I don't think you can turn it on or off like a light switch, Cork could well be uncomfortable deviating from their normal game plan.

I'm not sure you're comparing similar situations to be honest though.

What happened against Tipp last year was Cork knew that they were in trouble against Callinan and so tried to drop Ellis back in front of him. This left Walsh and Kearney basically in a 2 on 3 against Woodlock, and the two McGraths (Noel played really deep, basically as a midfielder) who picked them off with ease. Cork still played with three inside the whole day, but left themselves out numbered in the middle, it was incredibly naive. I think the idea was that Cooper would have the work rate to essentially cover two positions but Tipp are so wristy and quick and the big pitch he couldn't physically do it.

It'll be a different situation tomorrow it looks like they'll play just 2 in the full forward line. Because of that they'll have the extra man in midfield so that if they play a sweeper, they still have other position's marked, and if they line up with 6 backs and just have Lehane roaming they'll have an extra man either free or at least have the same number if Waterford drop one deep.

It might only be as subtle difference, but that extra man is what destroyed us against Tipp tactically. I don't think that Tipp game has any real indication of how tomorrow will go.

If I was to guess, I don't think Cork will have a huge amount of change to their style of play. I think Cork will play with 6 backs and just have Lehane or (I think more likely because of his shooting and general use of the ball) Rob O'Shea as a spare man to pick off scores around the middle.

As well as that, I'd be surprised if the Cork team plays as selected given injuries. You could very well see Luke O'Farrell or Pebbles come in for Ellis or Murphy before the game, meaning we'll play a traditional 15. I don't think we've played as announced for quite some time now. Definitely not against Dublin or Wexford anyway.

thinkstoomuch1

zetecescort wrote: »

weather looking like it could play a part now, scrappy games tend not to suit us.

No excuse imo this is elite senior intercounty any player doesn't perform minium standard in any condition time to say good luck and thanks and this Ireland weather is always unknown cork must play like great great I mean really really really great teams all weather

Yes touch be off however hunger desire want work ethic has mo bearing imo weather and these days imo build resolve character and dog within and turning point jbm this team two years ago was in monsoon I mean monsoon condition where ducks didn't like it even cork made remarkable come back draw game Waterford's that looked beyond them
I never forget that day as mentioned before so wet came through my wet pants and my cork under pants so wet cork logo was nearly wiped away

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

The last time Cork tried to play a conservative style it back fired hugely as Tipp completely dominated midfield. They were actually able to contain Callinan to a fair degree considering he was marking Shane O Neill and in an orthodox style with him unprotected as full back he would have been a lamb for the slaughter. Woodlock and Shane McGrath both got 3 points each and Cork's midfield having been much maligned for the Munster success didn't rise a gallop all game.

Waterford by contrast won the midfield battle the last day though Woodlock did still play well. I appreciate there is a difference between the challenge posed in April and that which Cork faced in August but I would not be one to assume that Cork will successfully adapt to this style if that is what they are going to do. They have basically no experience in playing it. Waterford have obviously improved the system used to work for them but it's based on the same foundations as the one which was blown apart a few times last year.

I think Waterford have played over 20 games since December, not sure exactly how many and all with the same style pretty much bar the run out for the second strings the last day. This was to get young players more familiar with playing this way as one of the most important aspects of it is communication. I don't think you can turn it on or off like a light switch, Cork could well be uncomfortable deviating from their normal game plan.

Valid points but Waterford suffer exactly you say cork do in Waterford have mot once deviate a game as yes orthodox I'd easier to adapt to cause waterford stick so rigid system when system broken the natural instinctive play this team as have not played it while is a concern


Cork simply and I posted before tipp last year had get match up right but didn't
Cork will hsve player deeper and beaten clare three times now that system who more refined then waterford and Clare have plan b and score lots waterford huge doubts remain
Cork can once the team set up right can play the sweeper the problem is the injury for cork and as I said despite yerra talk cork willing not go full pelt tommorrow

Mountainlad

Figsy32 wrote: »

I'm not sure you're comparing similar situations to be honest though.

What happened against Tipp last year was Cork knew that they were in trouble against Callinan and so tried to drop Ellis back in front of him. This left Walsh and Kearney basically in a 2 on 3 against Woodlock, and the two McGraths (Noel played really deep, basically as a midfielder) who picked them off with ease. Cork still played with three inside the whole day, but left themselves out numbered in the middle, it was incredibly naive. I think the idea was that Cooper would have the work rate to essentially cover two positions but Tipp are so wristy and quick and the big pitch he couldn't physically do it.

It'll be a different situation tomorrow it looks like they'll play just 2 in the full forward line. Because of that they'll have the extra man in midfield so that if they play a sweeper, they still have other position's marked, and if they line up with 6 backs and just have Lehane roaming they'll have an extra man either free or at least have the same number if Waterford drop one deep.

It might only be as subtle difference, but that extra man is what destroyed us against Tipp tactically. I don't think that Tipp game has any real indication of how tomorrow will go.

If I was to guess, I don't think Cork will have a huge amount of change to their style of play. I think Cork will play with 6 backs and just have Lehane or (I think more likely because of his shooting and general use of the ball) Rob O'Shea as a spare man to pick off scores around the middle.

As well as that, I'd be surprised if the Cork team plays as selected given injuries. You could very well see Luke O'Farrell or Pebbles come in for Ellis or Murphy before the game, meaning we'll play a traditional 15. I don't think we've played as announced for quite some time now. Definitely not against Dublin or Wexford anyway.

Fair enough, when I was suggesting that though I didn't mean something similar could happen with respect to the scoreline. Wouldn't think we have that capacity right now. But it was more a switch from your default style caused issues. The ones you mentioned aside, they conceded a lot of puckouts that way too.

Sunday could be a similar case in that it's not something yer too familiar with, from a management point of view as much as a player point of view. The same theory could be applied to both teams but Waterford would be more wary of the personnel to fit the system at this stage. For example, Brick has been redeployed to the forwards, there has been the dawning realization that Kevin Moran is not a center back, the midfield has far more dynamism than that which failed massively against ye in the replay (Shane O Sullivan and Brick). Cork don't have that trial and error behind so could be a hindrance to any tactical nuances tried tomorrow.

Mountainlad

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Valid points but Waterford suffer exactly you say cork do in Waterford have mot once deviate a game as yes orthodox I'd easier to adapt to cause waterford stick so rigid system when system broken the natural instinctive play this team as have not played it while is a concern


Cork simply and I posted before tipp last year had get match up right but didn't
Cork will hsve player deeper and beaten clare three times now that system who more refined then waterford and Clare have plan b and score lots waterford huge doubts remain
Cork can once the team set up right can play the sweeper the problem is the injury for cork and as I said despite yerra talk cork willing not go full pelt tommorrow

That's different to my point though you are right, when the system comes unstuck they will have to try something else. I'm not sure I agree that Clare have a plan B based on last year, they were crucified in the first 15 minutes v Wexford last year when they went man for man but we'll leave talk of Clare aside for today.

You could argue possibly that the Waterford system did come under a lot of pressure in the first 13 minutes the last day when Tipp got the 2 goals and surged 7 points clear. We've shipped enough bad beatings of Tipp since 2009 no matter what we've tried to play them. Was something changed that allowed Waterford get a foothold in the game and dominate for most of the remainder? Couldn't give you an answer to that myself but it certainly was a big endorsement of everyone involved to respond like that, we have buckled under pressure the last couple of years (particularly last year).

Figsy32

Mountainlad wrote: »

Fair enough, when I was suggesting that though I didn't mean something similar could happen with respect to the scoreline. Wouldn't think we have that capacity right now. But it was more a switch from your default style caused issues. The ones you mentioned aside, they conceded a lot of puckouts that way too.

Sunday could be a similar case in that it's not something yer too familiar with, from a management point of view as much as a player point of view. The same theory could be applied to both teams but Waterford would be more wary of the personnel to fit the system at this stage. For example, Brick has been redeployed to the forwards, there has been the dawning realization that Kevin Moran is not a center back, the midfield has far more dynamism than that which failed massively against ye in the replay (Shane O Sullivan and Brick). Cork don't have that trial and error behind so could be a hindrance to any tactical nuances tried tomorrow.

Yeah, fair points. The reason for that display against Tipp wasn't because they changed the tactics, a change of tactics was warranted, it was because the tactics they changed to were poor and it took them too long to change. That could well happen again.

ShamoBuc

What a game!! It had everything. Shocking conditions, grit, determination, controversy and some outstanding scores. Tip had a few chances to win it but Tyrone just about got over the line would have loved et. 1-11 v 0-13
As u21 final games go, they don't get much better for excitement.
Tip have some very fine footballers for the future. O'Brien at midfield really looks like the real thing. The captain numver 9 Colin O'Riordan really put in a great finish with two high pressure scores from play. We could do with them in midfield for us!

thinkstoomuch1

ShamoBuc wrote: »

What a game!! It had everything. Shocking conditions, grit, determination, controversy and some outstanding scores. Tip had a few chances to win it but Tyrone just about got over the line would have loved et. 1-11 v 0-13
As u21 final games go, they don't get much better for excitement.
Tip have some very fine footballers for the future. O'Brien at midfield really looks like the real thing. The captain numver 9 Colin O'Riordan really put in a great finish with two high pressure scores from play. We could do with them in midfield for us!

Great report

Riordain is class but I'm glad he's not playing cork senior as talent like him deserves great great management to fully develop to he's next level
Unfortunately cork imo lads no sign luxury have play under current system

Under twenty one midfield was okay cork against tipp
Tipp are credit to themselves and this result is a good reflection on cork under twenty one management

SeaFields

Girls left themselves too much to do in the end. Good second half from them but the Galway girls had a powerful first half and built enough of a lead to get them over the line. Galway won by 3.

thinkstoomuch1

Everything more less as I said cork not really playing top gear going through motion
Waterford full tilt well know exactly what waterford can't can do

Waterford playing sweeper and deserve be ahead and will win as don't think cork hunger for this but munster different kettle fish


One point though horgan golden boy cork hurling said many times hot cold need step up even in this game some things going not good enough and frees missed are elementarily he's talents
Needs a wake up guy
When great great when bad poor
Has talent no doubt while much critsed Shane o Neill and copper are having good games and working hard
Ryan not being tested so far doing all asked caught one great ball
O Neill answering critics

Wouldn't be surprised cork fade away unless show hunger as imo no hunger to play in top gear
When you see lawton coming on as a sub imo shows game gone
Want better performance second half but clear as day cork aren't going for this

thinkstoomuch1

Lehane been left inside full forward clear sign cork shadow boxing
Cork are not showing full hand and correctly so

commonsense.

Johnny ryan just handed w'ford the last two points.

thinkstoomuch1

As I predicted lawton on

Wouldn't worry undulating as cork aren't that bad waterford not that good
Led from start game cork always chasing
Cork second gear really

Figsy32

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

As I predicted lawton on

Wouldn't worry undulating as cork aren't that bad waterford not that good
Led from start game cork always chasing
Cork second gear really

I often agree with you, but I'd be a good deal more concerned!

thinkstoomuch1

As I said waterford thread half time don't be shocked cork fall away
There's a rude awakening in June for them
Like clare beating cotk ninety eight month after cork hammered them in league
Same here

Lawton man trying get a place has been woeful one ball wins and awful pass
When you see harnedy kearney Ellis lorcan no interest in second half going through motion tell own story

Talk will be waterford serious all Ireland contenders
There not imo
Good but no where good as they will be made out to be

Canyon86

imo cork seemed to be holding back a bit,

wouldnt place much significance in todays result really,

fireflys

as a cork man todays result isn't the end of the world but that Waterford team have some really quality players who cork had no answer to today, young Gleeson wing back is a serious serious talent, barron midfield also. Noel Connors had hoggy in his pocket but he has always had the upper hand between them so that's a bit worrying, they also play as a team very very well. I expect Cork to turn that result around in June but I wudnt be betting much on it

galwaylad14

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

As I said waterford thread half time don't be shocked cork fall away
There's a rude awakening in June for them
Like clare beating cotk ninety eight month after cork hammered them in league
Same here

Lawton man trying get a place has been woeful one ball wins and awful pass
When you see harnedy kearney Ellis lorcan no interest in second half going through motion tell own story

Talk will be waterford serious all Ireland contenders
There not imo
Good but no where good as they will be made out to be

I think I'd agree with you. That game today definitley meant a lot more to Waterford anyways, even just watching Kevin Moran's speech there showed that.

I don't see them in the running for Liam to be honest. Cork will go close but won't be quiet good enough either I think. If Harnedy did his hamstring there it's a massive loss to Cork

sean mac

Canyon86 wrote: »

imo cork seemed to be holding back a bit,

wouldnt place much significance in todays result really,

Hold back why?do these fellas have bags of medals?there is a real softness about this team 4 out of 5 finals list and hammered in most of them,jbm not up to speed on the line,cork will be better in a few weeks but this team is after regressing and are further off an all ireland this year. Any cork player who held bacj today is a disgrace,did kk ever hold back for any game?

KrustyUCC

Canyon86 wrote: »

imo cork seemed to be holding back a bit,

wouldnt place much significance in todays result really,

we're not that clever

The growler

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

As I said waterford thread half time don't be shocked cork fall away
There's a rude awakening in June for them
Like clare beating cotk ninety eight month after cork hammered them in league
Same here

Lawton man trying get a place has been woeful one ball wins and awful pass
When you see harnedy kearney Ellis lorcan no interest in second half going through motion tell own story

Talk will be waterford serious all Ireland contenders
There not imo
Good but no where good as they will be made out to be

Clare in 1998 were a far more formidable force than Cork in 2015. They had won 2 All-Irelands in the previous 3 years. By contrast this Cork team has won the sum total of one Munster title.

Don't know why Cork would bust themselves to win the semi final against Dublin and then not bother trying to win the final. Championship may well be a different story but I'd be worried if I was a Cork fan. A team with little success shouldn't be so unconcerned with a walloping in a League Final.

commonsense.

Figsy32 wrote:

I often agree with you, but I'd be a good deal more concerned!

I agree with you. Cork no doubt will be much improved in 5 weeks time. And might even beat waterford that day. But lets be honest, AIs is the currency Cork deal in and in that regard you'd have to be concerned.