protest water charges but not property charges??

So, why the big protest against water charges but not property tax??
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to pay water charges, so long as they are metered, I don't mind paying a set amount, comparable to people who pay a private water charge.

I know loads of people in the country who pay for private group water schemes, it never costs more than 90/100 euro a year. So, grand, I'll pay that. I don't need to pay more because I use more litres than nxt door, the same amount of water will be treated!!

But property tax????!!
No way, the government take money from you because you earned and saved enough to buy your own home? They think they should take more???!

So the question is, why so many protesting water charges ( a service) but didn't do the same for property tax ( just a tax!)

Sir Arthur Daley

I will protest for a water forum, in the mean time im leaving the outside tap run.

Pedro K

Can only speak for my own family home, nobody else's, but for us it's the straw that broke the camel's back.

We've had enough, and we've given enough (including the LPT/household charge) and there's not much left to take.

The main source of income in my house is my mother, who is on a widows pension. I'm in college and working part time on weekends to fund my education and to throw some money towards the house, and my little brother is in 6th year in school.

We can't afford it. Simple as. Enough is enough.

Kermit.de.frog

That's right. We should elect a range of independent crack pots at the next election. Maybe that will be better.


Or maybe not.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

So, why the big protest against water charges but not property tax??

But property tax????!!
No way, the government take money from you because you earned and saved enough to buy your own home? They think they should take more???!

So the question is, why so many protesting water charges ( a service) but didn't do the same for property tax ( just a tax!)

It's been many many years since I lived in Ireland so please excuse my ignorance on this, but genuine question here:
Is this property tax levelled against home owners or is it all "households"? I mean are they only charging the people who own the property, or are they charging people in rented accommodation as well? What happens to people who own houses that nobody lives in? Or what if you own two houses and one is just for holidays and the like?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's been many many years since I lived in Ireland so please excuse my ignorance on this, but genuine question here:
Is this property tax levelled against home owners or is it all "households"? I mean are they only charging the people who own the property, or are they charging people in rented accommodation as well? What happens to people who own houses that nobody lives in? Or what if you own two houses and one is just for holidays and the like?

Its a house owners tax, whoever owns the house, pays the tax, there are more taxes for people who own second houses/ holiday homes.

Del2005

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's been many many years since I lived in Ireland so please excuse my ignorance on this, but genuine question here:
Is this property tax levelled against home owners or is it all "households"? I mean are they only charging the people who own the property, or are they charging people in rented accommodation as well? What happens to people who own houses that nobody lives in? Or what if you own two houses and one is just for holidays and the like?

The property tax is on the owners not renters, the landlord's just add the cost of the tax to the rent.

Del2005

bubblypop wrote: »

So, why the big protest against water charges but not property tax??
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to pay water charges, so long as they are metered, I don't mind paying a set amount, comparable to people who pay a private water charge.

I know loads of people in the country who pay for private group water schemes, it never costs more than 90/100 euro a year. So, grand, I'll pay that. I don't need to pay more because I use more litres than nxt door, the same amount of water will be treated!!

But property tax????!!
No way, the government take money from you because you earned and saved enough to buy your own home? They think they should take more???!

So the question is, why so many protesting water charges ( a service) but didn't do the same for property tax ( just a tax!)

Because people are stupid and don't realise that there is way more money being taken out their pockets in other taxes and charges than water, but the crowd don't like water charges so that's what they protest over.

doc11

Many don't own there own home,those in social housing, getting rent supplement or renting privately wouldn't have had to pay the property tax.But with the water tax many of the poorer in society will pay hence the resentment

renegademaster

bubblypop wrote: »

So, why the big protest against water charges but not property tax??
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to pay water charges, so long as they are metered, I don't mind paying a set amount, comparable to people who pay a private water charge.

I know loads of people in the country who pay for private group water schemes, it never costs more than 90/100 euro a year. So, grand, I'll pay that. I don't need to pay more because I use more litres than nxt door, the same amount of water will be treated!!

But property tax????!!
No way, the government take money from you because you earned and saved enough to buy your own home? They think they should take more???!

So the question is, why so many protesting water charges ( a service) but didn't do the same for property tax ( just a tax!)

because what is happening now is over everything, it may well be under the IW banner but it's got everything else boiling under it, speak to anyone on Sat and they talked of all the little things adding up and this is it now!! no going back

Pedro K wrote: »

Can only speak for my own family home, nobody else's, but for us it's the straw that broke the camel's back.

We've had enough, and we've given enough (including the LPT/household charge) and there's not much left to take.

The main source of income in my house is my mother, who is on a widows pension. I'm in college and working part time on weekends to fund my education and to throw some money towards the house, and my little brother is in 6th year in school.

We can't afford it. Simple as. Enough is enough.

they see us now

Del2005 wrote: »

Because people are stupid and don't realise that there is way more money being taken out their pockets in other taxes and charges than water, but the crowd don't like water charges so that's what they protest over.

you think the people are going to stop at disolving IW? lol :pac:

the_syco

bubblypop wrote: »

So, why the big protest against water charges but not property tax??

Do the unemployed have to pay the same amount for the property tax? AFAIK, if they're below a certain threshold, they don't have to pay anything.

doc11

the_syco wrote: »

Do the unemployed have to pay the same amount for the property tax? AFAIK, if they're below a certain threshold, they don't have to pay anything.

Not true, there's no reliefs

doc11

doc11 wrote: »

Not true, there's no reliefs

No, that is true actually now that its mentioned.
A friend of mine is unemployed and hadn't paid her mortgage for years, on social welfare so I assume that's why she is exempt from property tax.

That makes sense I guess, workers out working can't spend all day protesting, people not working now have to pay water charges, they didn't have to worry about property tax!

Makes sense now..

doc11

bubblypop wrote: »

No, that is true actually now that its mentioned.
A friend of mine is unemployed and hadn't paid her mortgage for years, on social welfare so I assume that's why she is exempt from property tax.

That makes sense I guess, workers out working can't spend all day protesting, people not working now have to pay water charges, they didn't have to worry about property tax!

Makes sense now..

Not paying doesn't equal exempt

Bannasidhe

the_syco wrote: »

Do the unemployed have to pay the same amount for the property tax? AFAIK, if they're below a certain threshold, they don't have to pay anything.

If you own a house you are liable for property tax regardless of source of income, there are some exceptions - e.g. living in an estate deemed 'unfinished' - but no exemption for being unemployed.
Nor is amount of income taken into account, property tax is determined by value of house.

kneemos

doc11 wrote: »

Not true, there's no reliefs

There may well be in tomorrow's budget.The sooner the water tax can be eased into place and forgotten about before the next election the better.

renegademaster

kneemos wrote: »

There may well be in tomorrow's budget.The sooner the water tax can be eased into place and forgotten about before the next election the better.

I lie awake at night wondering how corrupt governments get away with it all and then i read this :rolleyes:

Tail Docker

Because protesting against "de watur charges" is popular and people jumped onto it. Protesting against anything else is for "dirty lefty hippies". Which is kinda funny, because people are protesting about being charged for showering..so maybe it has a sort of twisted logic to it. I think it's like someone being kicked up the hole every day without so much as a peep and then protesting because the kicker is wearing the wrong brand of trainers.

RobertKK

The tax base needed to be broadened so we are not dependent on one off taxes which led to the large budget deficit when one off property related taxes collapsed leading to a large budget deficit of around €20 billion a year.

Protesters would rather we went back to such a case if they cannot see the need for broadening the tax base.

The far left solution is tax the rich, which shows how stupid they are to think the rich would hang around to pay excessive taxes.

Lapin

Noonan is gonna set a tax on the use of question marks and exclamation marks starting at midnight.

The OP got in just in time.

!!!

ArtyC

I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back..... My wages are under €300 a week at the moment and I'm struggling. My rent is €100, €65 loan repayment, UPC, elec and yes Joan a phone. I m just keeping body and soul together til my hours of work go back up again. I can't afford anymore. Not many can . I pay my taxes every week.... Nearly €3,000 ytd ( I was working more hours up to a few weeks ago) now more tax. I'm beginning to hate my country

seamus

ArtyC wrote: »

I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back..... My wages are under €300 a week at the moment and I'm struggling. My rent is €100, €65 loan repayment, UPC, elec and yes Joan a phone. I m just keeping body and soul together til my hours of work go back up again. I can't afford anymore. Not many can . I pay my taxes every week.... Nearly €3,000 ytd ( I was working more hours up to a few weeks ago) now more tax. I'm beginning to hate my country

Your tax is being calculated wrong.

There is no way you can have a net tax liability of €4,500 a year and only come home with €300 in your hand.

Granted, you're getting less hours now, but if that's the kind of work you have, you should be budgeting accordingly for drops in income. If you've paid €3k in tax already this year, that means you earned on average €550/week up to now (assuming you're PAYE).

Look, water charges are simple: You either pay for your water directly and get a better standard of water, or you have your income tax raised to pay for the same sh1te standard of water we've had for the last 40 years.

Your choice.

ArtyC

The drop in my hours were not expected.. That is the tax I've paid- it's on my payslip.
I was being paid 380-400 a week.

I find it tough to stomach I'm told to budget better- I do budget thank you.

Our government are the ones who should f- Ing budget better.

seamus

ArtyC wrote: »

The drop in my hours were not expected.. That is the tax I've paid- it's on my payslip.
I was being paid 380-400 a week.

Then you've been screwed by someone, and it's not the government:

http://taxcalc.ie/budget-2014/

Work it out.
If you're only coming out with €380 a week after tax, then your tax liability so far this year shouldn't be more than €900.

Wibbs

Tail Docker wrote: »

Because protesting against "de watur charges" is popular and people jumped onto it. Protesting against anything else is for "dirty lefty hippies".

And as has been pointed out people in social housing aren't hit by the property tax.

The water tax is an extra expense and a pain in the arse I could do without, however the property tax galls me. Why? Because it's a tax a homeowner has little control over. The value of my house and the subsequent tax I pay on it is set by the market. It's largely out of my control. I control how much water I use and can cut back if wasteful. I control how much car tax I pay. However house prices go up, I pay more tax. My income may go up or fall against that. Income tax I have control over. If I earn more I pay more, if I earn less or become unemployed I pay less. It's tied directly to my ability to pay. The property tax isn't. Oh sure I could "downsize" and move to s cheaper house, but that's not exactly the easiest thing to do and it's a little different to buying a smaller engined car. If another stupid "boom" in house prices kicks off and levels hit anything like what they did ten years ago* my tax bill would triple. Again out of my control.






*and it wouldn't surprise me. An awful lot of kids were born in the last 20 years and they'll need housing. That and the mob have short memories.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Pedro K wrote: »

Can only speak for my own family home, nobody else's, but for us it's the straw that broke the camel's back.

We've had enough, and we've given enough (including the LPT/household charge) and there's not much left to take.

The main source of income in my house is my mother, who is on a widows pension. I'm in college and working part time on weekends to fund my education and to throw some money towards the house, and my little brother is in 6th year in school.

We can't afford it. Simple as. Enough is enough.

So it's a case of timing, and if the water charges came first that would be in now and it would be the property tax that would be the straw?

All this fuss should really be happening about the universal social charge in my opinion.

ThisRegard

bubblypop wrote: »

So, why the big protest against water charges but not property tax??

Or the VAT increase in previous years which hit people harder in the pocket.

Because it's economic illiterate populism.

_Brian

I'd say the biggest reason was that those renting avoid the property tax altogether but the water charge applies to the occupiers of the house.

So more folks on social welfare, particularly the serial professionally unemployed are being asked to pay their way and they just don't like that. Take, take, take and their entitlements is all they know !

renegademaster

RobertKK wrote: »

The far left solution is tax the rich, which shows how stupid they are to think the rich would hang around to pay excessive taxes.

sure that's grand so, dont tax the rich cos they can afford to **** off when it suits them, go for the poor, they can hardly afford to get a bus into town, what kind of fcuked up logic is that?

nm wrote: »

So it's a case of timing, and if the water charges came first that would be in now and it would be the property tax that would be the straw?

All this fuss should really be happening about the universal social charge in my opinion.

you are correct about the timing, but i will say that everyone i spoke to on Sat were there for the water tax but also you'd hear from everyone about every other little thing that brought them to where they are today, financially broken, come and join the protest even if it's the USC you feel should have brought us on the streets, dont sit on the sideline watching just cos it's water and you're not that bothered about that

ThisRegard wrote: »

Or the VAT increase in previous years which hit people harder in the pocket.

Because it's economic illiterate populism.

i heard some people giving out about and saying the vat increases at the weekend. please believe me when i tell ya many many people were fit to riot ecah and everytime the government squeezed a bit more from us, but it has taken a combination of it all to unite us, no populism about it, this is just the final straw with everyone.

_Brian wrote: »

I'd say the biggest reason was that those renting avoid the property tax altogether but the water charge applies to the occupiers of the house.

So more folks on social welfare, particularly the serial professionally unemployed are being asked to pay their way and they just don't like that. Take, take, take and their entitlements is all they know !

jebus!! after seeing such unity on saturday i am finding it extreemly difficult to not call you a ****

AnonoBoy

Is it as simple as the fact that the water charges are newer, hence more objections?

Pedro K

nm wrote: »

So it's a case of timing, and if the water charges came first that would be in now and it would be the property tax that would be the straw?

In a way, yes. Probably true for my family anyway.