Coming home...?

Dave0301

2011abc wrote: »

.......

If not the best in the world( all those beatings do wonders for the South Korean kids' motivation !) , on a per Euro basis it would be hard to find a better one in Europe than ours .English system is in big trouble with rise of privatisation / Academies , chronic teacher burn out etc etc .

The Finnish education system says hello :pac:

No education system is without its flaws, but to allude to my post earlier, teaching on a permanent basis has benefits that you will not get by doing irregular sub work in different schools, with pupils that you don't get to build a rapport with.

That goes for teaching in any country, be it the UK or Ireland, just with the current climate, it is more likely to happen in Ireland.

2011abc

There was a documentary series on RTE last year about teachers and students from Ireland spending time in schools in Poland , Spain and Finland .While the Finns no doubt had the most colourful and modern school buildings they would probably have been a distant third in the order of preference that several teacher viewers commented upon after.
There seemed to be a frankly weird interaction between students and teacher .American kids of the 70s and 80s had an image of brash , (over) confidence (maybe before Reagan-omics began to turn the middle class into the working poor )But these Finn kids were a whole level above that . I would guess it would be an alien environment for many irish teachers .
They seemed to be hyper 'expressive' with any hair colour except that they were born with .
Oh , by the way the Finnish Suicide Rate says Hello -and the South Koreans are practically off the scale in third place in the world .
Far away hills are green , unless Im mistaken , one of the umpteen wise old sayings and everyday phrases and expressions Ireland , The Land of Saints and Scholars has given the world .

Dave0301

Again, I think you have missed the entire point of my post. I am not trying to seriously debate which education system is better than whose. This is not a willy measuring competition! I think the Irish system has a lot going for, I went through it myself and have very positive memories of it. Just like there are positive aspects that I have discovered whilst teaching in the UK system.

Again to reiterate the point relating to teaching and professional development, it is more beneficial to be doing it regularly and full time, rather than irregular subbing. Something which is difficult to get in Ireland at the minute.

katydid

2011abc wrote: »

There was a documentary series on RTE last year about teachers and students from Ireland spending time in schools in Poland , Spain and Finland .While the Finns no doubt had the most colourful and modern school buildings they would probably have been a distant third in the order of preference that several teacher viewers commented upon after.
There seemed to be a frankly weird interaction between students and teacher .American kids of the 70s and 80s had an image of brash , (over) confidence (maybe before Reagan-omics began to turn the middle class into the working poor )But these Finn kids were a whole level above that . I would guess it would be an alien environment for many irish teachers .
They seemed to be hyper 'expressive' with any hair colour except that they were born with .
Oh , by the way the Finnish Suicide Rate says Hello -and the South Koreans are practically off the scale in third place in the world .
Far away hills are green , unless Im mistaken , one of the umpteen wise old sayings and everyday phrases and expressions Ireland , The Land of Saints and Scholars has given the world .

I remember that series, and I really liked the interaction between pupils and teachers in the Finnish school. I used to teach in Germany, and I had something like that relationship there - the key difference between such schools and Irish schools is that there is no attempt to control kids for control's sake, by petty rules about uniform, hair colour, piercings etc. Rules are generally respected because they make sense, not because they are perceived by the students as a control mechanism.

The colour of a person's hair makes no difference to their ability to learn.

ustazjoseph

.Im referring to the silly idea that anyone who comes back from " being out foreign " is automatically superior to an irish teacher
I dont think anyone said "superior" ?

2011abc

It was implied ,or certainly that the Irish system is ' inferior' . We've gone over the last 30 years from an almost ultra nationalist approach where everything irish was exclusively hyped ( Is the Proclamation still up in every primary school?Id bet some posters here have no idea what it even IS) to being almost embarrassed of ourselves today .While I was no cheerleader for the first situation it's vastly inferior to the latter .

evolving_doors

katydid wrote: »

I remember that series, and I really liked the interaction between pupils and teachers in the Finnish school. I used to teach in Germany, and I had something like that relationship there - the key difference between such schools and Irish schools is that there is no attempt to control kids for control's sake, by petty rules about uniform, hair colour, piercings etc. Rules are generally respected because they make sense, not because they are perceived by the students as a control mechanism.

The colour of a person's hair makes no difference to their ability to learn.

What were the class sizes like in Finland?

ustazjoseph

2011abc wrote: »

It was implied ,or certainly that the Irish system is ' inferior' . We've gone over the last 30 years from an almost ultra nationalist approach where everything irish was exclusively hyped ( Is the Proclamation still up in every primary school?Id bet some posters here have no idea what it even IS) to being almost embarrassed of ourselves today .While I was no cheerleader for the first situation it's vastly inferior to the latter .

i think you ll find i referred to my personal situation and experience. I was not comparing systems ; Its usually a futile exercise. The poster is trying to resolve her personal unhappiness with her desire to further her career and personal experience. My experience was that spending some years working in London helped me personally as a professional. Maybe it contributed a little .
Almost all of my experience in Ireland has been in rural areas. In deed i am frequently narrow minded unwise and unskillful.

katydid

Gebgbegb wrote: »

What were the class sizes like in Finland?

I can't remember, you couldn't really see that in the programme. I should imagine smaller.

Irrelevant, however, to the attitude of feeling a teacher has to rule by the kind of control we impose on students here.

gammy_knees

Is this the situation we want in Ireland? 40% leaving after 5 years. The UK system makes teachers so good that they want to leave it!!
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jan/15/ofsted-chief-teachers-quitting-scandal

ustazjoseph

gammy_knees wrote: »

Is this the situation we want in Ireland? 40% leaving after 5 years. The UK system makes teachers so good that they want to leave it!!
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jan/15/ofsted-chief-teachers-quitting-scandal

I think its like being in the army , doing a marathon or a long expedition. Its a tough experience , you might not want to do it for a long time , some people might be very hurt by the experience but for some its a good thing to have done. ; which takes us back to the op s dilemma.
lots of posters here have worked in other career areas and have taught in other countries. Surely our other experiences help us to be better teachers. ?
I don't think this is an " English ed system good vs bad"thread ?

Starkystark

Many thanks for all your replies! I definitely didn't write my post to suggest that teaching is so much harder over here or that teaching in England has made me a better teacher; or that I am of the belief that behavior isn't a problem in Ireland - when it is.

I don't know what I was really wanting out of my post but some opinions and advice on my position; which I got. And I greatly appreciate it.

So just an update - I went for the interview and got the offer - however because I would be employed with the school and would be put on Pay scale 1. I am at the minute on pays scale 3 with my agency so this would mean a £5,000 CUT. I also would not count as an NQT so my timetable hours would increase. To be honest living expenses on top of this means that it just doesn't add up. I am barely getting by on what I get that taking this job to be in the school there next year doesn't make it seem worthwhile - if anything its insulting.

I really want to go home - back to Ireland. I'm just hoping that I won't end up sitting around doing nothing after this crazy year.

evolving_doors

Would you not consider looking for a better school in the UK?

allic

its such a hard situation to be in I feel so bad for you!! I came back from Australia last june on the hopes of getting teaching work in Ireland. I got my first call for subbing since September about 3 weeks ago...have been working in a coffee shop to keep me going... not ideal but had to make ends meet.... got so fed up I moved to the uk last Monday to try and get some teaching work. have been offered a job so start on Monday really hope I don't have as bad of an experience as some people on this.
being based in Kildare I would say you would have much better luck getting something at home as I am from the west of Ireland where there isn't a lot happening!
If you are unhappy I would say either try to get work in a different school in uk or else go back to Ireland... the most important thing is that your happy do what you feel is right!
Good luck!

gubbie

If you have even an inkling to stay in the school, negotiate your pay to start on a higher rung. If they say no, sure you haven't lost anything.

Another teacher did this and started off on 3 rungs up