Coming home...?

cmegzc

Well here's my issue.

I just qualified in May with my PDE and figured it'd be easier to get a full time teaching job in the UK, I was sick of my retail job and sick of being broke so I signed a contract with an agency and accepted a post in a school in the UK.

I am hating it! All I want to do is come home, but I have several issues.

1. How easy is it for me to get subbing work in Ireland? Just covering lessons etc? My parents home is in Kildare so I can commute to quite a few areas around (I also have a car)

2. I'm legally signed into a tenancy agreement until next July here in the UK and if I leave without a replacement being found I will have to pay rent up until July. (Issue of finding someone to take over is going to be tough as the house is rented out only to teachers working within one of two secondary schools, it's linked with the school. Also renting in a 4 bed house and there is only 3 of us currently)

3. I need to give 6 weeks notice to my agency...so I want to make decisions soon if I'm to be home for christmas.

4. Would me leaving before my contract is up severely affect my possible references?

I'm really homesick and I really hate the work here. It's too different. Everyone thinks I should keep going until at least Christmas but I'm struggling so much.

Anyone else in any form of similar situation at all?

PLEASE HELP!

byhookorbycrook

Are you primary or secondary?

cmegzc

Secondary, teaching humanities (history and geog) to key stage 3 (years 7, 8 and 9) similar to 6th class to second year

mirrorwall14

cmegzc wrote: »

Secondary, teaching humanities (history and geog) to key stage 3 (years 7, 8 and 9) similar to 6th class to second year

Are those the subjects the teaching council recognise?

cmegzc

I'm qualified to teach English and history in Ireland, recognised by the teaching council

Noccy_Mondy

If you are struggling and find yourself homesick then come out of the job. I was in the same position before, (not England though) and I left a job. You will get something nearer home, even if it's subbing. Teaching is hard enough, never mind having to deal with the likes of these added pressures.

gubbie

This was me last year... It is so tough

The first thing I'd do, is I would talk to whoever your supervisor is or head of department. I've often found in the UK, they can be very helpful if they know you are struggling.

If they are no help, then I'd up and leave.

Have a rethink about staying until Christmas though - by that time you should have your 300 hours done so you could come home, do the workshops, and be fully qualified.

implausible

The first couple of months anywhere if it's your first teaching job are bound to be tough. The planning, workload and classroom management can really take it out of you.

To be honest, professionally, you'd be mad to come home. You have possibly the most common Arts subject combination that you can have and any job you go for will be hugely oversubscribed. You will be competing for subbing with teachers who have years of experience and a large amount of subbing is provided 'in-house' now from teachers who are on part-time contracts. After qualifying, experience is a necessity and where you are, you're getting that. You will be employable after a year's experience in England; you may not be now. Are you willing to throw away valuable experience to live at home on the off-chance of subbing and possibly returning to retail to make ends meet?

I'd strongly advise you to stick it out, unless it's adversely affecting your mental health.

duffyp

Hello,
I did 3 years in the UK, It is tough but it does make you a better teacher. You should try and finish the year if you can, as you have only ks3 the level of stress on you regarding exams should't be too bad. I know socially it can be tough there too but try and get your school to get you signed up for lots of CPD which you can stick on your cv for home- it all helps. Not finishing a contract and having a gap on your cv will do you no favours here where the demand for jobs is massive.
Keep the faith,

implausible

I forgot to mention that a new colleague of mine recently returned from England. She did a fantastic interview, mostly because of her knowledge and experience of coursework, moderation of results and all that jazz that they're trying to bring in with the new JC. She has been a great help to us, especially with the planning side of things.

who_ru

I would echo the others who have advised you not to give up, it's just a single year, until next July, so not even that. It will be the making of you in the long run. I too lived abroad in the past, in a non English speaking country and found it difficult initially but realised that it would remain difficult unless I became pro active, made the effort to integrate, and made the best of my situation. At the end of the year I didn't want to leave but had to in order to finish my degree.

Don't give up. Stick it out. Get active, exercise regularly and think of the benefits of having a year's experience behind you next July as opposed to none, and explaining in interviews that you threw in the towel in a previous job because you found it too tough.

Good luck and stay focused!

cmegzc

Yeah I won't be staying, I'm too stressed even missed work today because I felt I'll with stress. Any advice on telling my agency would be appreciated

Heydeldel

PMed you.

ianryan1000

Is it so tough teaching in UK?
A friend of mine told me her experience as teacher assistant and she was quite content. Nevertheless, after reading these posts I wonder if she had been lucky with the school she was assigned. It was in Scotland.

Afroshack

ianryan1000 wrote: »

Is it so tough teaching in UK?
A friend of mine told me her experience as teacher assistant and she was quite content. Nevertheless, after reading these posts I wonder if she had been lucky with the school she was assigned. It was in Scotland.

Yeah it's quite tough. Being a teaching assistant would be okay, since you are helping kids one-on-one mostly. There's very little marking or admin.

gubbie

Afroshack wrote: »

Yeah it's quite tough. Being a teaching assistant would be okay, since you are helping kids one-on-one mostly. There's very little marking or admin.

That depends on the school. Our school brought in reports that the TA's had to write reports after every class about the progress of the SEN kids.

This past year they also invited them all into a meeting and fired every one of them, and then asked them to reapply for their jobs back... but there was 3 less jobs available.

aunt aggie

gubbie wrote: »

That depends on the school. Our school brought in reports that the TA's had to write reports after every class about the progress of the SEN kids.

This past year they also invited them all into a meeting and fired every one of them, and then asked them to reapply for their jobs back... but there was 3 less jobs available.

Yikes, I find that secondary schools in England have very detailed procedures and policies on reporting but they vary considerably from school to school. Some schools want detailed planning from their teacher, others prioritize regular reports home.

I was lucky but still had one or two moments when I wanted to jump ship. Whatever you decide OP, you can spin your time in England to make yourself more employable when you to return to Ireland.

2011abc

I HOPE it's a myth that having been worked to the bone with ludicrous paperwork in England makes a teacher more employable back home .At that rate if you spent a year in a Bangladeshi sweat shop making t shirts for some of the cheap clothes chains you could walk into a job as a principal on return .Utter nonsense!

aunt aggie

2011abc wrote: »

I HOPE it's a myth that having been worked to the bone with ludicrous paperwork in England makes a teacher more employable back home .At that rate if you spent a year in a Bangladeshi sweat shop making t shirts for some of the cheap clothes chains you could walk into a job as a principal on return .Utter nonsense!

It's not nonsense. Someone with the OPs subjects would find it difficult to get experience in his subject area. OP now have classroom experience rather than few days subbing in different schools. That will be a positive as they begin job hunting in Ireland.

I worked in England for two years and my classroom never resembled a sweat shop. What that your own experience of teaching abroad?

implausible

It's not a myth. Sure the new curriculum for Junior Cycle English is close to the British one, anyone with experience of moderation meetings and coursework has a natural advantage over those of us (i.e. most of us) who don't.

Dave0301

Working full time, gaining experience of classroom management, preparing exam classes, assessment for learning, moderation of coursework, improving teaching and learning, dealing with pastoral issues or a few days subbing here and there.

Which gives you more experience should be clear. The English system certainly has its flaws, but an Irish NQT not gaining transferrable experience to bring back to Ireland is not one of them.

2011abc

Of course working full time is preferable to being unemployed or working part time .Thats (clearly) not what I meant .Im referring to the silly idea that anyone who comes back from " being out foreign " is automatically superior to an irish teacher .Irish teachers are on a par with the best in the world .We managed to come in the top six in a survey of thirty something countries recently .Considering the underfinancing or education Id say that makes us amongst the very best in the world .

implausible

2011abc wrote: »

Of course working full time is preferable to being unemployed or working part time .Thats (clearly) not what I meant .Im referring to the silly idea that anyone who comes back from " being out foreign " is automatically superior to an irish teacher .Irish teachers are on a par with the best in the world .We managed to come in the top six in a survey of thirty something countries recently .Considering the underfinancing or education Id say that makes us amongst the very best in the world .

I don't think that is what people are implying. Teachers coming back from England have experience with mountains of paperwork and are familiar with learning outcomes, making their own resources, coursework and moderation, all of which is coming our way. Any teacher I've spoken to who has returned from England has found teaching here easier because the paperwork is way less onerous and they can get on with teaching.

It's not a superior system, far from it, but the teachers who survive it are well able to cope with the demands of the Irish system at present, and how it's changing.

aunt aggie

2011abc wrote: »

Of course working full time is preferable to being unemployed or working part time .Thats (clearly) not what I meant .Im referring to the silly idea that anyone who comes back from " being out foreign " is automatically superior to an irish teacher .Irish teachers are on a par with the best in the world .We managed to come in the top six in a survey of thirty something countries recently .Considering the underfinancing or education Id say that makes us amongst the very best in the world .

I really didn't get any of this from your previous post.

Starkystark

Hi there,

I'm kind of in the same predicament at the moment. I'm in a school in the UK through an agency. I started the end of August and am here since. My contract as a supply teaching Geography is to run up in July and the school has re-advertised my position for permanency.

They have encouraged me to apply - but to be honest I'm up in arms. I find it really difficult here. The behavior in my school is awful and the management isn't great either. We seem to take any student that has been kicked out of their previous school in. I ended up getting really depressed last term but was still managing going into school. However I had an incident the last week of term where a student aggressively approached me after putting him in isolation for the previous days grievances and began verbally abusing me. As an NQT as well as being slightly depressed - I dealt with this really badly and broke down crying in School!

The Headteacher heard of this and is under the impression that I'm not really permanent teacher material. My interview is next Tuesday and I've been told by my line manager that I should be prepared to be grilled by the head teacher about Emotional Resilience. I know what he's like - he's not very pleasant at all and I'm petrified that he will grill me about this issue as I don't think I would cope under the pressure.

To be honest - I don't know what I'm really getting at here - I would feel better at home in Ireland with my family, friends and boyfriend. But I am too afraid of being unemployed in Ireland too. I feel like withdrawing my application and asking can I just finish my NQT year, and getting out of there.

Any thoughts or opinions I would be very grateful?

Noccy_Mondy

Whatever about the job, your health, well being and happiness NEED to come first. If you aren't happy there then finish up and come home. Something will turn up, things always work out in the end. I wouldn't for love nor money go abroad in search of work, I'm too much of a home bird. I'd rather just get a job in a completely unrelated sector until I could secure something. The job is so much easier when you have the support of your family behind you and can come home to them each night. Anyway, that's just me, others think completely different. OP, do what feels right for you

gubbie

Starkystark wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm kind of in the same predicament at the moment. I'm in a school in the UK through an agency. I started the end of August and am here since. My contract as a supply teaching Geography is to run up in July and the school has re-advertised my position for permanency.

They have encouraged me to apply - but to be honest I'm up in arms. I find it really difficult here. The behavior in my school is awful and the management isn't great either. We seem to take any student that has been kicked out of their previous school in. I ended up getting really depressed last term but was still managing going into school. However I had an incident the last week of term where a student aggressively approached me after putting him in isolation for the previous days grievances and began verbally abusing me. As an NQT as well as being slightly depressed - I dealt with this really badly and broke down crying in School!

The Headteacher heard of this and is under the impression that I'm not really permanent teacher material. My interview is next Tuesday and I've been told by my line manager that I should be prepared to be grilled by the head teacher about Emotional Resilience. I know what he's like - he's not very pleasant at all and I'm petrified that he will grill me about this issue as I don't think I would cope under the pressure.

To be honest - I don't know what I'm really getting at here - I would feel better at home in Ireland with my family, friends and boyfriend. But I am too afraid of being unemployed in Ireland too. I feel like withdrawing my application and asking can I just finish my NQT year, and getting out of there.

Any thoughts or opinions I would be very grateful?

Remember, you're not alone. What you've gone through and what you've felt, it's not uncommon for teachers in their first year in the UK. We had a new teacher turn around and tell her line manager to... well a lot of profanities about the school and the system.

I don't think things are rose gardens back home, with happy smiling students and good, easily found work. Is your boyfriend able/willing to travel?

From the sounds of it, it sounds like you've got a very unsupportive school. I'd a tough school, but it was supportive. If I were you, I'd try looking for a better school

I couldn't agree more with the quote above about your health. It's just not worth it. It's emotionally draining. Friday used to be Criday for me until I found a much better school

duffyp

You poor yolk, first of all big hug to you. I also worked in UK and found it tough but stuck it out 3 years. My first year was an emotional roller coaster of ups and downs as I found my way of controlling poor behaviour in the classroom (there was actually a press in the prep room for teachers which had tissues and sweets you could have after a crap lesson). My second year was so much easier as I had a reputation as a hard ass as I followed up on every incident and never let anything go. My third year was actually enjoyable.

Your school sound very unsupportive, do you have an NQT mentor you can talk to? My school wasn't great in behaviour management so I spent a lot of time calling external parent meetings and following up with phone calls home, this really helped I only had to do a few before the news got around the students.

Don't worry about the tears, it happens and if your employers pick up on this in the interview perhaps you could explain how the situation could of been handled better by them e.g. holding a reconciliation meeting between yourself and this difficult student prior to letting him out- this is good practice if there is a fear of aggressive behaviour. If they don't like the 'formative feed back' they can go run and jump.

About coming home now there are pros and cons. At the moment your confidence is at a low and you haven't gained a massive amount of experience so perhaps you could apply to nicer schools in your area and start from scratch and get your confidence in your behaviour management up? The pro of coming home is obviously your family and boyfriend but you may struggle to get work with only your NQT year completed. I really feel that encountering that sort of behaviour and conquering it made me as a teacher so although its tough its all valuable experience.
Hope it goes well for you.

spurious

Don't make the mistake of thinking that Irish schools are all free from the same sort of discipline problems as described.

ustazjoseph

2011abc wrote: »

I HOPE it's a myth that having been worked to the bone with ludicrous paperwork in England makes a teacher more employable back home .At that rate if you spent a year in a Bangladeshi sweat shop making t shirts for some of the cheap clothes chains you could walk into a job as a principal on return .Utter nonsense!

I can only speak for myself and im along time out of england but after 7 years in london schools i came back to ireland. The range of situations and people dealt with , the wealth of life experience in the staffroom , the world view , the broad interest in education and social issues internationally was huge. Teachere were more mobile , had more responsibility and often engaged more personally with students than many did here.
I'm not sure i was more employable. The old myth that teaching in england was a mixture of riot control and paperwork was very common as was the frankly silly idea that the "irish system is the best in the world "
That view was often expressed by people who thought saturdays irish times and going to Dublin the odd time showed a high level of cultural awareness. BUT
I was a better teacher for my time there and I learned a lot.

2011abc

ustazjoseph wrote: »

I can only speak for myself and im along time out of england but after 7 years in london schools i came back to ireland. The range of situations and people dealt with , the wealth of life experience in the staffroom , the world view , the broad interest in education and social issues internationally was huge. Teachere were more mobile , had more responsibility and often engaged more personally with students than many did here.
I'm not sure i was more employable. The old myth that teaching in england was a mixture of riot control and paperwork was very common as was the frankly silly idea that the "irish system is the best in the world "
That view was often expressed by people who thought saturdays irish times and going to Dublin the odd time showed a high level of cultural awareness.

Would have to disagree with practically every word of that ...Mostly untrue although some of it eg 'teacher mobility' is irrelevant to education per se .Can't help but sense the gist of it all is that ' Most schools here are staffed by stereotypical graduate HDipEd 'clones' who teach white Irish students Gaeilge and GAA ' , you do know there's a school with over 90% non Irish students in Adamstown ?

If not the best in the world( all those beatings do wonders for the South Korean kids' motivation !) , on a per Euro basis it would be hard to find a better one in Europe than ours .English system is in big trouble with rise of privatisation / Academies , chronic teacher burn out etc etc .

The way we have coped with the seismic changes in society in barely a decade is amazing and in my opinion adds to and vindicates our highly admired system .

(Last sentence quoted a tad narrow minded , especially considering all that rich immersion in English schools system ?)

Dave0301

2011abc wrote: »

.......

If not the best in the world( all those beatings do wonders for the South Korean kids' motivation !) , on a per Euro basis it would be hard to find a better one in Europe than ours .English system is in big trouble with rise of privatisation / Academies , chronic teacher burn out etc etc .

The Finnish education system says hello :pac:

No education system is without its flaws, but to allude to my post earlier, teaching on a permanent basis has benefits that you will not get by doing irregular sub work in different schools, with pupils that you don't get to build a rapport with.

That goes for teaching in any country, be it the UK or Ireland, just with the current climate, it is more likely to happen in Ireland.

2011abc

There was a documentary series on RTE last year about teachers and students from Ireland spending time in schools in Poland , Spain and Finland .While the Finns no doubt had the most colourful and modern school buildings they would probably have been a distant third in the order of preference that several teacher viewers commented upon after.
There seemed to be a frankly weird interaction between students and teacher .American kids of the 70s and 80s had an image of brash , (over) confidence (maybe before Reagan-omics began to turn the middle class into the working poor )But these Finn kids were a whole level above that . I would guess it would be an alien environment for many irish teachers .
They seemed to be hyper 'expressive' with any hair colour except that they were born with .
Oh , by the way the Finnish Suicide Rate says Hello -and the South Koreans are practically off the scale in third place in the world .
Far away hills are green , unless Im mistaken , one of the umpteen wise old sayings and everyday phrases and expressions Ireland , The Land of Saints and Scholars has given the world .

Dave0301

Again, I think you have missed the entire point of my post. I am not trying to seriously debate which education system is better than whose. This is not a willy measuring competition! I think the Irish system has a lot going for, I went through it myself and have very positive memories of it. Just like there are positive aspects that I have discovered whilst teaching in the UK system.

Again to reiterate the point relating to teaching and professional development, it is more beneficial to be doing it regularly and full time, rather than irregular subbing. Something which is difficult to get in Ireland at the minute.

katydid

2011abc wrote: »

There was a documentary series on RTE last year about teachers and students from Ireland spending time in schools in Poland , Spain and Finland .While the Finns no doubt had the most colourful and modern school buildings they would probably have been a distant third in the order of preference that several teacher viewers commented upon after.
There seemed to be a frankly weird interaction between students and teacher .American kids of the 70s and 80s had an image of brash , (over) confidence (maybe before Reagan-omics began to turn the middle class into the working poor )But these Finn kids were a whole level above that . I would guess it would be an alien environment for many irish teachers .
They seemed to be hyper 'expressive' with any hair colour except that they were born with .
Oh , by the way the Finnish Suicide Rate says Hello -and the South Koreans are practically off the scale in third place in the world .
Far away hills are green , unless Im mistaken , one of the umpteen wise old sayings and everyday phrases and expressions Ireland , The Land of Saints and Scholars has given the world .

I remember that series, and I really liked the interaction between pupils and teachers in the Finnish school. I used to teach in Germany, and I had something like that relationship there - the key difference between such schools and Irish schools is that there is no attempt to control kids for control's sake, by petty rules about uniform, hair colour, piercings etc. Rules are generally respected because they make sense, not because they are perceived by the students as a control mechanism.

The colour of a person's hair makes no difference to their ability to learn.

ustazjoseph

.Im referring to the silly idea that anyone who comes back from " being out foreign " is automatically superior to an irish teacher
I dont think anyone said "superior" ?

2011abc

It was implied ,or certainly that the Irish system is ' inferior' . We've gone over the last 30 years from an almost ultra nationalist approach where everything irish was exclusively hyped ( Is the Proclamation still up in every primary school?Id bet some posters here have no idea what it even IS) to being almost embarrassed of ourselves today .While I was no cheerleader for the first situation it's vastly inferior to the latter .

evolving_doors

katydid wrote: »

I remember that series, and I really liked the interaction between pupils and teachers in the Finnish school. I used to teach in Germany, and I had something like that relationship there - the key difference between such schools and Irish schools is that there is no attempt to control kids for control's sake, by petty rules about uniform, hair colour, piercings etc. Rules are generally respected because they make sense, not because they are perceived by the students as a control mechanism.

The colour of a person's hair makes no difference to their ability to learn.

What were the class sizes like in Finland?

ustazjoseph

2011abc wrote: »

It was implied ,or certainly that the Irish system is ' inferior' . We've gone over the last 30 years from an almost ultra nationalist approach where everything irish was exclusively hyped ( Is the Proclamation still up in every primary school?Id bet some posters here have no idea what it even IS) to being almost embarrassed of ourselves today .While I was no cheerleader for the first situation it's vastly inferior to the latter .

i think you ll find i referred to my personal situation and experience. I was not comparing systems ; Its usually a futile exercise. The poster is trying to resolve her personal unhappiness with her desire to further her career and personal experience. My experience was that spending some years working in London helped me personally as a professional. Maybe it contributed a little .
Almost all of my experience in Ireland has been in rural areas. In deed i am frequently narrow minded unwise and unskillful.

katydid

Gebgbegb wrote: »

What were the class sizes like in Finland?

I can't remember, you couldn't really see that in the programme. I should imagine smaller.

Irrelevant, however, to the attitude of feeling a teacher has to rule by the kind of control we impose on students here.

gammy_knees

Is this the situation we want in Ireland? 40% leaving after 5 years. The UK system makes teachers so good that they want to leave it!!
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jan/15/ofsted-chief-teachers-quitting-scandal

ustazjoseph

gammy_knees wrote: »

Is this the situation we want in Ireland? 40% leaving after 5 years. The UK system makes teachers so good that they want to leave it!!
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jan/15/ofsted-chief-teachers-quitting-scandal

I think its like being in the army , doing a marathon or a long expedition. Its a tough experience , you might not want to do it for a long time , some people might be very hurt by the experience but for some its a good thing to have done. ; which takes us back to the op s dilemma.
lots of posters here have worked in other career areas and have taught in other countries. Surely our other experiences help us to be better teachers. ?
I don't think this is an " English ed system good vs bad"thread ?

Starkystark

Many thanks for all your replies! I definitely didn't write my post to suggest that teaching is so much harder over here or that teaching in England has made me a better teacher; or that I am of the belief that behavior isn't a problem in Ireland - when it is.

I don't know what I was really wanting out of my post but some opinions and advice on my position; which I got. And I greatly appreciate it.

So just an update - I went for the interview and got the offer - however because I would be employed with the school and would be put on Pay scale 1. I am at the minute on pays scale 3 with my agency so this would mean a £5,000 CUT. I also would not count as an NQT so my timetable hours would increase. To be honest living expenses on top of this means that it just doesn't add up. I am barely getting by on what I get that taking this job to be in the school there next year doesn't make it seem worthwhile - if anything its insulting.

I really want to go home - back to Ireland. I'm just hoping that I won't end up sitting around doing nothing after this crazy year.

evolving_doors

Would you not consider looking for a better school in the UK?

allic

its such a hard situation to be in I feel so bad for you!! I came back from Australia last june on the hopes of getting teaching work in Ireland. I got my first call for subbing since September about 3 weeks ago...have been working in a coffee shop to keep me going... not ideal but had to make ends meet.... got so fed up I moved to the uk last Monday to try and get some teaching work. have been offered a job so start on Monday really hope I don't have as bad of an experience as some people on this.
being based in Kildare I would say you would have much better luck getting something at home as I am from the west of Ireland where there isn't a lot happening!
If you are unhappy I would say either try to get work in a different school in uk or else go back to Ireland... the most important thing is that your happy do what you feel is right!
Good luck!

gubbie

If you have even an inkling to stay in the school, negotiate your pay to start on a higher rung. If they say no, sure you haven't lost anything.

Another teacher did this and started off on 3 rungs up