Feminists: Remove WWII Sailor Statue Because It’s ‘Sexual Assault’

py2006

We've all seen the infamous photo taken of a sailor kissing a woman celebrating VJ Day in 1945 in New York. Now a certain group of feminists want a statue depicting this iconic photo removed as it is a 'disgusting depiction of sexual assault in progress'.

Feminists are demanding that a statue based on a famous end–of–World War II photo of a sailor kissing a woman be removed from Normandy — because it’s actually a sexual-assault statue.

The statue, placed near Pegasus Bridge in Northern France to mark the 70th anniversary of D-Day, depicts a sailor kissing a woman to celebrate V-J Day in New York City on August 14, 1945.

But the French feminist group Osez Le Féminisme has claimed that what the statue actually portrays is the sexual assault of a woman who did not give verbal consent before being kissed, and the group is petitioning to have it removed immediately.

Alfred Eisenstaedt, who took the original photograph, has said that George Mendonsa, the sailor depicted in the image, had been haphazardly kissing any woman who came close to him, without taking the time to explicitly ask for verbal consent.

Osez Le Féminisme maintains that the statue is clearly nothing more than the disgusting depiction of a sexual assault in progress.

“The sailor could have laughed with these women, hugged them, asked them if he could kiss them with joy,” the group told The Times of London.

“No, he chose to grab them with a firm hand to kiss them,” they continued. “It was an assault.”

The identity of the woman in the photograph has been disputed.

According to museum director Stéphane Grimaldi, the woman is a nurse named Edith Shain, who stated she had not been assaulted in any way.

The feminist group, however, said that the woman is actually an Austrian named Greta Zimmer Friedman.

Friedman has been quoted as saying: “I wasn’t kissing him. He was kissing me.” But she sharply rejected the assault claim after a 2012 blog post picked up on that quote to say the photo was an example of “The Selective Blindness of Rape Culture.”

“I can’t think of anybody who considered that as an assault,” Friedman told Navy Times, adding that she and Mendonsa — who were strangers at the time — stayed in touch over the years. “It was a happy event.”

Source (There is more on it here, however, while the page itself is fine the website contains content NSFW.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5Na5f3wxAI

What are you thoughts on this? Was the original event a sexual assault or an innocent celebration? This is the original photo and here is the statue

Donkey Oaty

It should be immediately replaced by a statue of Germaine Greer pointing an accusing finger at any potential rapist (i.e. man) who happens to be passing by.

caolfx

That really confirmed what the people had said in the office. Suddenly, I was grabbed by a sailor. It wasn't that much of a kiss. It was more of a jubilant act that he didn't have to go back. I found out later he was so happy that he didn't have to go back to the Pacific where they had already been through the war. The reason he grabbed somebody dressed like a nurse, that he felt so very grateful to the nurses who took care of the wounded.

So, just f*ck off and stop looking for things to be offended about.

wretcheddomain

It's up to the lady in the photograph to decide the matter of consent, after all, non-verbal communication also expresses consent. We can't look back retrospectively to ascribe crimes based off photographs. Each photograph, after all, has a context and circumstances, and these too must be taken into account before any finger-pointing can ensue.

Fr_Dougal

Extreme feminists =/= all feminists.

Just a bunch of nut jobs looking for attention.

The Backwards Man

National Review?

Isn't that the magazine that makes the Daily Mail look like the Brussels Journal?

tritium

Just a bunch of crazy people looking for attention. Ignore them and they'll (hopefully) go away

wretcheddomain

tritium wrote: »

Just a bunch of crazy people looking for attention. Ignore them and they'll (hopefully) go away

This thread is a testament to the fact they got the attention - looks like they've had a success of sorts in that regard.

Gatling

Lunacy seriously lunacy

Pwindedd

I'm not sure this is what Mrs Pankhurst had in mind! She must be spinning in her grave.

Buona Fortuna

My local town put up a statue to John King http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_King_%28Medal_of_Honor%29.

When it was being put up it was covered with cling film until the local big knob did the necessary.

My sister in law, heavily pregnant at the time, nearly crashed her car she said "It looks like a postman with an erection".

AnonoBoy

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

My sister in law, heavily pregnant at the time, nearly crashed her car she said "It looks like a postman with an erection".

I used to live in Wales and campaigned for a postman with an erection statue for years in the town where I lived.

They never went for it but that just shows the lack of cultural foresight in the town of Postiehardon.

Precious flower

If the woman in the photograph has declared it was not sexual assault then what's the problem? It seems like such a silly thing to get irate over. These women aren't feminists, they are extremists.

dodderangler

So they've a statue of a bloke kissing a girl to celebrate VJ Day.
What statue they going to erect for BJ day.

Shakespeare's Sister

Or VD day.

Bipolar Joe

TheZohan wrote: »

Extreme feminists =/= all feminists.

No one said this was the case.

Yurt2

Precious flower wrote: »

These women aren't feminists

Oh yes they are.

SeanW

TheZohan wrote: »

Extreme feminists =/= all feminists.

Just a bunch of nut jobs looking for attention.

If this was Sweden the statue would probably already be gone.

the_monkey

Ah ffs !!
I hate feminism , it's nothing to do with equality , it's pure hatred of men and hang ups ..

Jimmy Garlic

Precious flower wrote: »

If the woman in the photograph has declared it was not sexual assault then what's the problem? It seems like such a silly thing to get irate over. These women aren't feminists, they are extremists.

They are extreme anti-men feminists who work extremely hard to socially engineer society to fit in with their twisted world view. Far from a small minority, the extreme man hating element within the feminist movement is quite large.

Shakespeare's Sister

the_monkey wrote: »

Ah ffs !!
I hate feminism , it's nothing to do with equality , it's pure hatred of men and hang ups ..

Depends on what's being addressed. I think a lot of feminism is ridiculous too and hostile to men, but I wouldn't like a world where ANY concern about women in the western world, no matter how legitimate, were just dismissed as the crackpot side of feminism.
We're still daughters, wives, girlfriends, mothers, sisters, nieces, friends of guys, grandmothers, aunts... there's nothing wrong with concern about when we do experience negativity due to our gender, so I wouldn't agree with eradicating every strand of feminism, but much of it, like this crap, should **** off for sure.

Riddle101

It was a harmless kiss for f*ck sake, that's all. These feminists give feminism a bad name I tell. Probably why some people don't take feminism seriously.

ScouseMouse

When you look at stupid campaigns like this, you wonder are they all frigid lesbians who are just jealous.

Dont like my opinion? It makes more sense than theirs :pac:

Stillweak

I'm pretty sure, That photo was actually staged. The kiss happened and the photographer saw it so asked them to do it again.
So if I'm correct, the girl was complicit.

Laois6556

Oh oh, the masculinists are up in arms!

Gatling

Somebody should remain these loons it was soldiers and sailors like the very one in the iconic photo , fought for there very freedom over the last 200 years that allows them today to make such idiotic statements

Frank Lee Midere

I hope the French State won't flee before this modern feminist panzer division.

TheBeardedLady

Oh god. Here we go a bleedin' gain. Pass me the wine!

Precious flower

Yurt! wrote: »

Oh yes they are.

Oh no they're not. They might call themselves that, but all they are are extremists.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

They are extreme anti-men feminists who work extremely hard to socially engineer society to fit in with their twisted world view. Far from a small minority, the extreme man hating element within the feminist movement is quite large.

What I am against is the notion some men and women have that the word feminist equals anti-men. In the mind of some feminists it might, but I don't believe they have the right to call themselves feminist. I'm a feminist in that I believe that all women AND men regardless of race, religion, class, ethnicity etc. should be treated equally, while also believing that some women in society are at a greater disadvantage in certain circumstances due to their gender and the fact that that needs to be addressed.

Buona Fortuna

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Depends on what's being addressed. I think a lot of feminism is ridiculous too and hostile to men, but I wouldn't like a world where ANY concern about women in the western world, no matter how legitimate, were just dismissed as the crackpot side of feminism.
We're still daughters, wives, girlfriends, mothers, sisters, nieces, friends of guys, grandmothers, aunts... there's nothing wrong with concern about when we do experience negativity due to our gender, so I wouldn't agree with eradicating every strand of feminism, but much of it, like this crap, should **** off for sure.

Yes

The absolute tragedy of this, is that this stupid case detracts from absolute deperate cases that there are around the world:

Egypt - women assaulted and worse in Tahir Sq
India - Rapes going largely univestigated
India - Where widows have to leave their homes and go into some quasi religious purdour
Pakistan - Gang rapes ordered by village elders.


Glad I got that off my chest, I'll go and have another glass of wine

Shakespeare's Sister

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

Egypt - women assaulted and worse in Tahir Sq
India - Rapes going largely univestigated
India - Where widows have to leave their homes and go into some quasi religious purdour
Pakistan - Gang rapes ordered by village elders.

They were probably false allegations.

(Sadly, it's fashionable to have this little trust in women now).

Prepare too to be called a white knight.

the_monkey

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Depends on what's being addressed. I think a lot of feminism is ridiculous too and hostile to men, but I wouldn't like a world where ANY concern about women in the western world, no matter how legitimate, were just dismissed as the crackpot side of feminism.
We're still daughters, wives, girlfriends, mothers, sisters, nieces, friends of guys, grandmothers, aunts... there's nothing wrong with concern about when we do experience negativity due to our gender, so I wouldn't agree with eradicating every strand of feminism, but much of it, like this crap, should **** off for sure.

For sure, what I should have said was "I hate extreme feminism "

Irlandczyk

ScouseMouse wrote: »

When you look at stupid campaigns like this, you wonder are they all frigid lesbians who are just jealous?

Now you see, this is what I (being a man, even) hate. Scouce's comment above is actually a perfectly normal response when one hears the word 'feminist', and it shouldn't be. As far as my beliefs go, I agree that people should be held as equals regardless of their gender.

Not long ago, I heard the first seemingly normal, down to earth speech in feminism I've ever heard. Emma Watson put in no uncertain terms exactly what the idea of feminism is, with no bull****, and came across as eloquent and free of this kind of loony-bin stuff. It opened a lot of eyes on this issue.

Then not long later, more of this garbage. One step forward and two steps back. So exasperating because I really do agree with the general idea behind 'real' feminism. No wonder we have certain actresses stating in interviews that they're not feminists because they don't 'hate men' or want to put them down.

Buona Fortuna

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Prepare too to be called a white knight.

Been called plenty worse

Grayson

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

Yes

The absolute tragedy of this, is that this stupid case detracts from absolute deperate cases that there are around the world:

Egypt - women assaulted and worse in Tahir Sq
India - Rapes going largely univestigated
India - Where widows have to leave their homes and go into some quasi religious purdour
Pakistan - Gang rapes ordered by village elders.


Glad I got that off my chest, I'll go and have another glass of wine

They are different. Women here do still have a lot to fight for, but it's completely different to India or Saudi. The worst episode I can think of here is where men lines up to support a rapist. As horrible as that was it's worth noting though that the law was on the woman's side. Women in these third world countries have a far bigger battle that needs more than a lawyer.

Shakespeare's Sister

Grayson wrote: »

They are different. Women here do still have a lot to fight for, but it's completely different to India or Saudi. The worst episode I can think of here is where men lines up to support a rapist. As horrible as that was it's worth noting though that the law was on the woman's side. Women in these third world countries have a far bigger battle that needs more than a lawyer.

Yes, it's far better for women in western countries for sure - can't argue with that. And those cases are not just feminist issues, they're human rights ones that anyone would care about, whether feminist or not.

ScouseMouse

Irlandczyk wrote: »

Now you see, this is what I (being a man, even) hate. Scouce's comment above is actually a perfectly normal response when one hears the word 'feminist', and it shouldn't be. As far as my beliefs go, I agree that people should be held as equals regardless of their gender.
.

Thanks for pointing out its a normal response, but I really do hate stupid extremists and try to avoid them.

Feminists like mentioned by the OP make a mockery of womens rights groups. They talk crap and hurt their "cause".

Muslim extremists are another. I was at a wedding recently between a muslim guy and an irish girl. He was perfectly level headed and had a few pints of guinness on the night. Not at all like you would "expect" from the image portrayed as a muslim guy.

Gay rights and pride rallys? The one in liverpool made me late for a match as they shut down the city centre for a parade and all the taxis and buses were in chaos. Just so they could prance around waving rainbow flags. Have to say though, my gay friend mary took me to superstar boudoir in liverpool and it was a great night. Again, not what I expected.

All to their own, just dont ram it down our throats.

pickarooney

Pissed-up navvy grabs nurse and kisses her against her will. I'm sure you'd all have a laugh if she was your wife.

shruikan2553

He should have used the good2go app.

newport2

Grayson wrote: »

They are different. Women here do still have a lot to fight for, but it's completely different to India or Saudi. The worst episode I can think of here is where men lines up to support a rapist. As horrible as that was it's worth noting though that the law was on the woman's side. Women in these third world countries have a far bigger battle that needs more than a lawyer.

Fully agree, and not only was the law on her side, but 99% of the country too. Everyone I know, male or female, was disgusted by it. It was an isolated incident by a number of individuals and is not an accurate reflection of society today, even though it's often held up and depicted to be to back up a point.

Adamantium

Irlandczyk wrote: »

Now you see, this is what I (being a man, even) hate. Scouce's comment above is actually a perfectly normal response when one hears the word 'feminist', and it shouldn't be. As far as my beliefs go, I agree that people should be held as equals regardless of their gender.

Not long ago, I heard the first seemingly normal, down to earth speech in feminism I've ever heard. Emma Watson put in no uncertain terms exactly what the idea of feminism is, with no bull****, and came across as eloquent and free of this kind of loony-bin stuff. It opened a lot of eyes on this issue.

Then not long later, more of this garbage. One step forward and two steps back. So exasperating because I really do agree with the general idea behind 'real' feminism. No wonder we have certain actresses stating in interviews that they're not feminists because they don't 'hate men' or want to put them down.

But Emma Watson talked about nothing but men and how they made her feel (bad, dominated), then she spoke how downtrodden and many of said men are quiet. What the hell, that's not logic!

**** sake the hashtag was "HeForShe", when they/her/feminists in general seem want to be nothing but dependent on men to fix women's issues. She practically admits that feminism was bollox all along, except equal rights and responsiblities which all humans deserve to have under the law. Introspection and self awareness is shot to hell.

Fix your own.

jimgoose

I agree with Ye Kebab-Munchers on this one. I'd replace the statue with a life-size bronze of a P-47 Thunderbolt on combat power, firing it's .50-cals at another life-sized bronze of a running Angela Merkel.

osarusan

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Oh god. Here we go a bleedin' gain. Pass me the wine!

'Here we go again' in what way?

What's wrong with the thread?

I think it's pointing out an example of how 'feminism' (at least, that's how those behind this idea identify) can have som pretty damn stupid causes.

Causes which deserve to be highlighted for their stupidity.

Sleepy

While, of course, these women are nuts, there is a role for feminism in the west: to fight the good fight on behalf of their repressed sisters on Facebook, Twitter and the mainstream media from their ivory towers of academia.

Of course, were we to allow them to dictate our foreign policy, we couldn't actually do a damn thing about the suffering of women in third world countries unless we're prepared to be an occupying force for generations... and of course, we'd need to ensure that the troop deployment was based on a 50:50 gender split before we could begin the invasion.

Of course, this might be problematic because feminists don't seem to be as willing to risk their lives to fight tyranny as the sexist navvy sexually assaulting the poor nurse in this picture was...

Larbre34

Hmm, I suspect another war on the scale of World War II might be needed to put things into perspective for these cohort of people complaining.

Aren't they bloody lucky they live in a society where they are free to be eejits and professional missers of the point. Free because several million guys put their lives on the line to make it so 70 years ago. The sailor in question, and indeed the nurse, would be well justified in using the line from A Few Good Men

"I would rather you just said 'thank you', and went on your way"

Disrespectful, ignorant fools.

osarusan

pickarooney wrote: »

Pissed-up navvy grabs nurse and kisses her against her will. I'm sure you'd all have a laugh if she was your wife.

That's his wife behind him in the picture. She, at least, had a laugh about it. And here's what the kissee had to say about it (in a story that turns out to be two years old):

"I can't think of anybody who considered that as an assault," said Friedman, who exchanges Christmas cards with Mendonsa every year and has appeared with him at several reunion events. "It was a happy event."

Buona Fortuna

osarusan wrote: »

That's his wife behind him in the picture. She, at least, had a laugh about it. And here's what the kissee had to say about it (in a story that turns out to be two years old):

Christ on a bike - at last a bit of sanity.

/close thread

NegativeCreep

Not every kiss has a sexual meaning behind. This was a celebratory kiss. Nothing sexual about it whatsoever.

jillymayr

being so PC is overrated

Squeedily Spooch

See it's stuff like this that does feminism more harm than good, because people just see the movement as full of tumblr using drama queens going out of their way to get offended about something minor. The woman in the pic has no problem with it, then it's not a problem. Pick your battles indeed.

ALiasEX

pickarooney wrote: »

Pissed-up navvy grabs nurse and kisses her against her will. I'm sure you'd all have a laugh if she was your wife.

They would be in hysterics if the sailor then kissed them.