Proposed modifications to Threadneedle Road

Iwannahurl

This is not on the City Council's website, yet, as far as I can see.

Plans have been drawn up for modifications to Threadneedle Road, and also its junction with Taylor's Hill, Bishop O'Donnell Road and Kingston Road.

The proposed modifications include:

• a cycle lane on the left-hand (school) side of Threadneedle Road
• three speed ramps
• a Toucan crossing opposite Salerno
• a Zebra crossing opposite St Enda's
• recessed car (and bus?) parking at various points along the road
• widening of footpaths in front of both schools
• some sort of modifications to the Kingston-Threadneedle signalised junction
• modifications to the bus stop opposite Enda's.

Overall this is a positive development, I hope.

However, I admit to being a bit confused about the purpose of one significant part of the design, ie the Toucan crossing, and its proposed location. See image below. The proposed location of the Toucan crossing is shown by the circle and the red and white arrows.

Since it's obviously intended to be used by cyclists, what will its function be?

The proposed cycle lane runs South-North, so is the Toucan crossing intended to be used by cyclists coming from Blackrock and wanting to turn right into Dr Mannix Road?

Or is it primarily for cyclists travelling South down Threadneedle Road and wishing to enter Salerno?

Also puzzling to me is the fact that no pedestrian crossing is proposed for the Threadneedle/Dr Mannix junction. There is a large amount of pedestrian traffic at this point, especially across the top of Dr Mannix Road. There is also a bus stop further down, opposite the Tennis Club.

Why would this be excluded from the scheme? If children walking South-North along the right-hand side of Threadneedle Road, or East-West along the left-hand side of Dr Mannix Road, are expected to use the Toucan crossing, why would they not be facilitated to cross the top of Dr Mannix Road as well? That's where the desire lines most definitely are, as even a quick look at the junction during drop-off and pick-up times will reveal.

_Whimsical_

Sounds pretty good for the most part. I'm sure speed ramps are necessary but I wouldn't be looking forward to driving up that road when they're installed.

Goofy

Any links to the plans?

BeardySi

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Sounds pretty good for the most part. I'm sure speed ramps are necessary but I wouldn't be looking forward to driving up that road when they're installed.

Down might be more of a pita!

The toucan might make sense if there was provision for cyclists intended for Dr. Mannix Rd?

Then again "makes sense" and "provision for cyclists" are dirty words when it comes to road planning in Galway...

MadYaker

Sounds grand to me, are the speed bumps really necessary though? My parents live on that road and I drive there regularly and I haven't noticed people speeding.

JillyQ

Hopefully the charge at the junction with Taylors Hill will allow a longer time for traffic turning right onto Taylors Hill

irisheddie85

Is there still plans to stop right turns at the junction between taylors hill threadneedle and Kingston road or is that gone by the wayside?

The toucan would surely be more useful if there were cycle lanes both sides of the road and on Dr mannix.

It's easily one of the few roads in galway you coukd fit cycle lanes both sides without any need to widen it and would mean a cycle lane all the way from tesco to the prom.

Woops actually just missing a small section from wdr to taylors.

snubbleste

irisheddie85 wrote: »

..
It's easily one of the few roads in galway you coukd fit cycle lanes both sides without any need to widen it and would mean a cycle lane all the way from tesco to the prom.. .

But but where would mummy park her tractor when dropping off the lil darlings to school?

galwaycyclist

Ok theoretically parts of this scheme are actually quite well thought out.

The idea behind having one cycle lane is it is there as a "climbing lane" for cyclists going up hill. So they get a bit more space where the speed differential is highest. Going downhill the speed differential is lower between the bikes and cars so the percieved need for segregation is lower. Also unless the are very wide (by Irish standards) cycle lanes may not be such a good idea where cyclists are travelling quite fast.

The one potential problem will be that in the absence of an effective police service we will get salmon cycling on the wrong side of the road and also parking in the cycle lane.

A main "objection" or "reservation" about this scheme is that it is spending resources in the wrong place. If you manage to reach Threadneedle from Knocknacarra on a bike then you have already "won the lottery". The main challenge is how do cyclists, particularly schoolchildren, actually reach Threadneedle Rd?

Leaves the council open to the accusation that its simply more cosmetics cooked up for the purpose of consuming taxes without facing up to the real issues.

Iwannahurl

MadYaker wrote: »

Sounds grand to me, are the speed bumps really necessary though? My parents live on that road and I drive there regularly and I haven't noticed people speeding.

It's not so easy to notice speeding when you're in a car. Cyclists and pedestrians are very sensitive to speeding, and some locals (including school staff and students) are acutely aware of it.

JillyQ wrote: »

Hopefully the charge at the junction with Taylors Hill will allow a longer time for traffic turning right onto Taylors Hill

Because I have not seen detailed plans for the Threadneedle/Taylor's Hill junction I am open to correction on this, but my understanding is that right turns will be prohibited. That means no right turn from Threadneedle into Taylor's Hill, no right turn from Kingston into Threadneedle Road, and no right turn from Taylor's Hill into Bishop O'Donnell Road. This was proposed in May last year if not before then: http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/61154/threadneedle-road-right-hand-turn-to-be-eliminated-to-free-up-junction

There was also talk earlier this year of a cycle lane on Threadneedle Road, but ttbomk there was no consultation process: http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/68904/lack-of-traffic-calming-measures-poses-serious-threat-to-life

irisheddie85 wrote: »

Is there still plans to stop right turns at the junction between taylors hill threadneedle and Kingston road or is that gone by the wayside?

The toucan would surely be more useful if there were cycle lanes both sides of the road and on Dr mannix.

It's easily one of the few roads in galway you coukd fit cycle lanes both sides without any need to widen it and would mean a cycle lane all the way from tesco to the prom.

Woops actually just missing a small section from wdr to taylors.

See above re right turns. WRT the Toucan crossing, would cyclists heading for Enda's come all the way down to use it? It would certainly be handy for children going to Salerno, but as an adult I wouldn't bother. And yes, the Deane Roundabout and Bishop O'Donnell Road are two huge hairy dirty flies in the ointment.

snubbleste wrote: »

But but where would mummy park her tractor when dropping off the lil darlings to school?

If experience elsewhere is anything to go by, I'm afraid said tractor will be parked in the new "cycle lane". For example, cycle lanes (and footpaths) are used for car-parking in Knocknacarra during school drop-off and pick-up.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Ok theoretically parts of this scheme are actually quite well thought out.

The idea behind having one cycle lane is it is there as a "climbing lane" for cyclists going up hill. So they get a bit more space where the speed differential is highest. Going downhill the speed differential is lower between the bikes and cars so the percieved need for segregation is lower. Also unless the are very wide (by Irish standards) cycle lanes may not be such a good idea where cyclists are travelling quite fast.

The one potential problem will be that in the absence of an effective police service we will get salmon cycling on the wrong side of the road and also parking in the cycle lane.

A main "objection" or "reservation" about this scheme is that it is spending resources in the wrong place. If you manage to reach Threadneedle from Knocknacarra on a bike then you have already "won the lottery". The main challenge is how do cyclists, particularly schoolchildren, actually reach Threadneedle Rd?

Leaves the council open to the accusation that its simply more cosmetics cooked up for the purpose of consuming taxes without facing up to the real issues.

The uphill cycle lane will be extremely useful, in my opinion. However, I think you are absolutely right about the potential for salmon cycling down the hill, which will be a nightmare if it occurs. At the moment kids (and some adults) are cycling down the hill on the right-hand (west side) footpath because the Kingston-Threadneedle junction is such a chaotic dangerous mess. However, such habits are not easily altered, and if Bishop O'Donnell Road is left as it is, you can be absolutely certain that a substantial number of cyclists will be approaching the junction along the footpath on the western or Kingston side of BOD Rd. If they cross on the same side, and do not switch to the left-hand side to descend Threadneedle, then salmon cycling is inevitable. Or perhaps they'll stay on the footpath? Either way I'll be p1ssed off, because that kind of messing annoys me no end.

It's a great pity that Galway City Council typically plans and implements these schemes in a disjointed fashion (the proverbial "projectitis"). We may have to wait years for the Deane Roundabout and BOD Road to be sorted out. You will recall that the SQR was modified without either the Deane or the Browne roundabouts being dealt with.

buzz11

I'm told they are starting works on this on Oct-27....

buzz11

http://connachttribune.ie/ban-on-right-turns-to-be-introduced-at-notorious-bottleneck-322/

The Roads dept are introducing a 3 month trial, banning RH turns at the junction.

Totally over the top reaction when the traffic lights are sub-standard and not fit for purpose. First thing they should do is put right turn filters on the problem sides and install magnetic sensors to react to the traffic flow.

Oh but hang on.... that would be pro-active so zero chance of that happening....

?Cee?view

buzz11 wrote: »

http://connachttribune.ie/ban-on-right-turns-to-be-introduced-at-notorious-bottleneck-322/

The Roads dept are introducing a 3 month trial, banning RH turns at the junction.

Totally over the top reaction when the traffic lights are sub-standard and not fit for purpose. First thing they should do is put right turn filters on the problem sides and install magnetic sensors to react to the traffic flow.

Oh but hang on.... that would be pro-active so zero chance of that happening....

A filter could only work on the Kingston side though. There's no room for it on the Taylor's Hill side as there is only one lane width.

beardybrewer

I've sat there many times, blocked by cars turning right cycle after cycle, pondering how to make it better.

That intersection is a nightmare and simply isn't fit for purpose as it stands, new filters or not. The whole intersection needs to be widened to properly accommodate the lanes required for it to flow smoothly. Other than widening the only other option is to prohibit right turns which probably won't work: will push traffic down to Joyce's, behind at Maunsells Rd, or encourage people to turn left and perform illegal u-turns near a school.

But hey, what makes you think the council would pay money to do the job right before the public pays with a life or two?

Mrs OBumble

beardybrewer wrote: »

Other than widening the only other option is to ...

Build the bypass.

Or catch the bus.

Shure'n aren't those the solutions for all Galway traffic issues?

Discodog

An aggravating issue is the timing & duration of the lights. It needs intelligent lights that react to the traffic flow. It maddening to have to stop when there is no one coming the other way. Even a mini roundabout might be better.

Long Gone

snubbleste wrote: »

But but where would mummy park her tractor when dropping off the lil darlings to school?

Exactly - Taxpayers should get priority ! .;)

GerardKeating

?Cee?view wrote: »

A filter could only work on the Kingston side though. There's no room for it on the Taylor's Hill side as there is only one lane width.

It could, if only one direction got green at a time, and it rotated green through the four directions, but banning right turns will give faster through flow.

JillyQ

GerardKeating wrote: »

It could, if only one direction got green at a time, and it rotated green through the four directions, but banning right turns will give faster through flow.

From which direction? banning it coming up threadneedle road doesn't make sense.

Eeden

Right turn onto Taylor's Hill from Threadneedle Road is almost impossible as it stands, as the light goes red for the driver coming up Threadneedle Road, but stays green for those coming from Bishop O'Donnell Road for quite a while after. You can end up sitting in the middle of the junction on a red light, and can't turn right because the cars coming towards you going straight on down Threadneedle Road still have a green light.

JillyQ

Eeden wrote: »

Right turn onto Taylor's Hill from Threadneedle Road is almost impossible as it stands, as the light goes red for the driver coming up Threadneedle Road, but stays green for those coming from Bishop O'Donnell Road for quite a while after. You can end up sitting in the middle of the junction on a red light, and can't turn right because the cars coming towards you going straight on down Threadneedle Road still have a green light.

Wouldn't a simple green arrow help there. They could allow it while the traffic is turning left from kingston and have the traffic turn right from rahoon.

GerardKeating

JillyQ wrote: »

From which direction? banning it coming up threadneedle road doesn't make sense.

Only traffic from Bishop O'Donnell Road has a separate lane for Right turning traffic, so that could remain, but the others...

GerardKeating

Eeden wrote: »

Right turn onto Taylor's Hill from Threadneedle Road is almost impossible as it stands, as the light goes red for the driver coming up Threadneedle Road, but stays green for those coming from Bishop O'Donnell Road for quite a while after. You can end up sitting in the middle of the junction on a red light, and can't turn right because the cars coming towards you going straight on down Threadneedle Road still have a green light.

Signs up at the Junction this evening, advising new Junction Layout from November 2nd, Looks light the right turn from Taylors Hill to Bishop O'Donnell Road is going, not sure of any other changes.

?Cee?view

There seem to be some misunderstandings on this.

The released statements refer to only two roads out of the four having right turns banned i.e. in an east west axis. Driving from Threadneedle and Bishop O'Donnell will be unaffected.

However, some posters here suggest that all four will be changed.

Anyone know which is it?

gordongekko

?Cee?view wrote: »

There seem to be some misunderstandings on this.

The released statements refer to only two roads out of the four having right turns banned i.e. in an east west axis. Driving from Threadneedle and Bishop O'Donnell will be unaffected.

However, some posters here suggest that all four will be changed.

Anyone know which is it?

http://www.galwaycity.ie/news/303/59/Public-Notice-Temporary-Right-Turn-Ban-at-Threadneedle-Cross/

?Cee?view

gordongekko wrote: »

http://www.galwaycity.ie/news/303/59/Public-Notice-Temporary-Right-Turn-Ban-at-Threadneedle-Cross/

Thanks. That's clear and much more limited than what's being discussed here.

hal9000

Delighted, sick of being nearly run over by people breaking the lights to turn right up Bishop O'Donnell rd when the pedestrian light is green!

Diabhal Beag

Those lights were absolutely ruthless for those of us travelling from Taylor's to Kingston. I can't see this measure not improving things.

galah

What's to stop people from still attempting the right hand turn? Genuine question as people here generally don't seem to give a flying fig about the rules of the road or traffic signals....:mad: are they just putting up a sign, or will the be some more permanent measures (dunno, traffic island, red light camera, etc?)

The light sequence won't leave time to queue for a right turn and anyone lingering is likely to get honked out of it

Might take a week or so but it should bed in fairly quick

Who knows, it might encourage the mammies and daddies to dust off the kids bikes though, sadly, it's more likely to just result in hundreds of kids jumping out of cars when the lights are red so the parents can go straight on to work or left to head back up Distributor Road

GerardKeating

JillyQ wrote: »

Wouldn't a simple green arrow help there. They could allow it while the traffic is turning left from kingston and have the traffic turn right from rahoon.

Then you need a separate lane for the turning traffic, and no room for that.

the_sonandmoon

That no right turn from Taylors Hill to Bishop OD is badly needed. One car turning right can leave Taylors Hill at a standstill, and even then, the right turners usually have to break the red light to continue the turn (often through a pedestrian crossing).
Im not so sure about the right turn from Kingston to Threadneedle though. The way it is now, often if a car is turning onto Threadneedle from Kingston, the cars behind it will go around it, by using the left hand filter lane. Why not make that manoeuvre legal, by switching the filter lane to the right, and the left turn and straight through lane to the left?
Also installing a green filter lane for right hand turns from Threadneedle to Taylors Hill, maybe with a standing box in the middle of the junction for those waiting to turn from Threadneedle to Taylors, so those behind them can proceed left or straight on, until the traffic from Bishop OD has a green filter to turn onto Kingston, as suggested above.

That way, only one manoeuvre is prohibited - and, as far as I can see, its the one that causes most backup - that going from Taylors Hill to Bishop OD Rd.

Or have I totally missed something?

Mrs OBumble

galah wrote: »

What's to stop people from still attempting the right hand turn? Genuine question as people here generally don't seem to give a flying fig about the rules of the road or traffic signals....

Snipers.

buzz11

New traffic lights installed late last week, the turning filter lights are clearly visible now.

No right turn from Kingston and from Taylors hill but left turn from Kingston and right turn from BOD still continues as before (with filters)

Today is the first day of the "ban" trial.


Meanwhile the cycling lane (up the hill only) is still not identified with paint
and
the pedestrian lights at the shop/school are still not turned on.

These works started last December and are still incomplete.

ronnie3585

Any reports on how the traffic was this morning with the new setup?

Cheshire Cat

buzz11 wrote: »

New traffic lights installed late last week, the turning filter lights are clearly visible now.

No right turn from Kingston and from Taylors hill but left turn from Kingston and right turn from BOD still continues as before (with filters)

Today is the first day of the "ban" trial.


Meanwhile the cycling lane (up the hill only) is still not identified with paint
and
the pedestrian lights at the shop/school are still not turned on.

These works started last December and are still incomplete.

This morning cars coming from Kingston were happily ignoring the right turn ban, as expected...

The traffic lights at the shop are badly needed. It does my head in that most drivers are ignoring the pedestrian crossing. I think that at the moment Threadneedle Rd is more dangerous than it was before the "improvements".

Eeden

Drivers travelling up Taylor's Hill this afternoon were also happily ignoring the giant "No Right Turn" sign. A helpful pedestrian pointed out the signs to the woman in the car in front of me (who was indicating to turn right). It took him a while to get through to her, but in the end she didn't turn right.

Diabhal Beag

Was pretty good at 5 o'clock in comparison to before they brought it in. No right turners.

pmasterson95

Eeden wrote: »

Drivers travelling up Taylor's Hill this afternoon were also happily ignoring the giant "No Right Turn" sign. A helpful pedestrian pointed out the signs to the woman in the car in front of me (who was indicating to turn right). It took him a while to get through to her, but in the end she didn't turn right.

"helpful"

Asmodean

pmasterson95 wrote: »

"helpful"

Trust me, there's an awful lot of drivers around town who could do with a bit of help.

JillyQ

Asmodean wrote: »

Trust me, there's an awful lot of drivers around town who could do with a bit of help.

Think we could have the understatement of the year here.

went though the lights at lunch time. Doesnt seem to be any major problems with it.

beardybrewer

Made my first pass through coming up from Taylor's Hill. Stuck behind a-holes turning right, as usual. Big flashing NO RIGHT TURN sign not obvious enough it seems. In fairness, the signs should be attached to the lights but I missed them if they were there.

Cheshire Cat

beardybrewer wrote: »

Made my first pass through coming up from Taylor's Hill. Stuck behind a-holes turning right, as usual. Big flashing NO RIGHT TURN sign not obvious enough it seems. In fairness, the signs should be attached to the lights but I missed them if they were there.

Even if there were no signs, the fact that the green traffic light now has arrows pointing straight and left only should be a dead giveaway. But some people can neither read nor correctly interpret symbols. Perhaps they shouldn't be on the road at all...

biko

It might take a while for someone who has turned right there for years to change their ways. There's also plenty of people that don't give a ****.

Station a couple Garda there during rush hour and pull offenders in to give them a verbal warning.

beardybrewer

I was thinking it needs something like this:


I agree it will take a long time for people to take heed and certain types will probably thumb their noses at it until enforced.