FTP thread - 2015 - get quick or die trying

hf4z6sqo7vjngi · 31-01-2015 10:52pm

+30w in a season is not that big of a deal and more than manageable with some hard & smart training.

tunney · 01-02-2015 2:25pm

mossym wrote: »

without having a dig at cyclists, also worth thinking why you had to come to the triathlon forum for a thread like this and didn't find an equivalent in the cycling forum. the type of racing is different, ftp is more important to triathletes/cyclists focused on TT's, while for those racing A1 to A4 also need to consider their 30 sec/1 min power which most here(with the exception of those here jsut for this table, and JB) don't care much about. max sustained power over time is the main target for us, our sprinting capability is of little interest.

now with the serious bit out of the way, i can point out the real reason is that the guys who told you that are just cyclists, if they were really capable of training they'd be doing more than one sport and would be over here, in which case they'd be capable of bigger gains.

Bambatta is seriously concerned with 30sec/1 min power and rapid accelerations now too. #cat1

mossym · 01-02-2015 2:38pm

tunney wrote: »

Bambatta is seriously concerned with 30sec/1 min power and rapid accelerations now too. #cat1

ah yes, had never considered the impact the new super series would have on training and bike requirements in terms of fitness.

bambatta's ftp is probably higher than my 30 sec power anyway so no fear of him #wattstoburn

Pmaldini · 03-02-2015 2:36pm

User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
Mossym|245w|||266||||||||266w|3.36|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
MAntoD||283w||296w||||||||296w|4.28|330w|5.00|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
Kurt Godel||||267W||||||||267W|2.98|300W|3.65|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
tegerman||||304W||||||||304W|3.9|350W|4.48|Strava estimate|Stages
Pmaldini||||210W|230W|||||||230W|2.94|250W|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|PowerTap
Arthurdaly||||273w||||||||273w|3.8|300w|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Garmin Vector
|||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||||

happy enough with that, was hoping for a little higher but cant complain with almost 10% increase in a month, its a tough tough test, i think everyone should be made do it:D

tunney · 03-02-2015 3:33pm

Has anyone *actually* verified their 0.95 as a multiplier?

One of my lads insisted on using this. then nearly broke on the next weeks training, could finish it is the best way I could put it. Revised down to a more realistic for most 90% and much happier.

mossym · 03-02-2015 3:51pm

tunney wrote: »

Has anyone *actually* verified their 0.95 as a multiplier?

One of my lads insisted on using this. then nearly broke on the next weeks training, could finish it is the best way I could put it. Revised down to a more realistic for most 90% and much happier.

other than going out and trying the sessions afterwards, how do you verify the 0.95 multipler? (serious question)

tunney · 03-02-2015 4:08pm

mossym wrote: »

other than going out and trying the sessions afterwards, how do you verify the 0.95 multipler? (serious question)

Thats one.
1hr TT

Pmaldini · 03-02-2015 4:53pm

tunney wrote: »

Thats one.
1hr TT

Just curious Tunney, would you have done both type of tests in the past? and would the results have come out similar depending on what multiplier you were using?

MD1983 · 03-02-2015 4:54pm

tunney wrote: »

Has anyone *actually* verified their 0.95 as a multiplier?

One of my lads insisted on using this. then nearly broke on the next weeks training, could finish it is the best way I could put it. Revised down to a more realistic for most 90% and much happier.

I wouldnt even get close to 95% in a race (olympic distance 40k), i think 85% is more realistic for me. I think there is too much going on in a race to get closer and I find I can hold higher wattage on the turbo than on the road. last years FTP was 329 using .95 and i never broke 300 average in a race.

on a flat course on a good day 280 watts has got me more than 41km per hour average, the extra effort to get more takes a big toll on the run and i think breaking the hour for an OD course is good for me

hf4z6sqo7vjngi · 03-02-2015 5:52pm

tunney wrote: »

Has anyone *actually* verified their 0.95 as a multiplier?

One of my lads insisted on using this. then nearly broke on the next weeks training, could finish it is the best way I could put it. Revised down to a more realistic for most 90% and much happier.

Yes, mine is taken from 1hr sessions now as i know .95 is not accuracte, more likely 90-92% of the T20 for me. If i were to test now it would likely increase my FTP by 15/20w which is pointless unless i want a mickey measuring contest and an inaccurate number to work off. Cannot remember the last time i tested using the T5T20 method!

For those i coach apart from doing the 1hr tt you will see it straight away from the quality sessions and how they are coping if the .95% is an accurate measurement, for most its not.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi · 03-02-2015 5:54pm

Pmaldini wrote: »

Just curious Tunney, would you have done both type of tests in the past? and would the results have come out similar depending on what multiplier you were using?

.95 works for you but if you want i can schedule a 1hr tt to find out:)

tunney · 03-02-2015 5:57pm

Pmaldini wrote: »

Just curious Tunney, would you have done both type of tests in the past? and would the results have come out similar depending on what multiplier you were using?

I've done T5/T20s
I then a few days later did the odd T60.

One did this once/twice but its enough to verify the multiplier when coupled with ability to complete vo2max intervals.

Pmaldini · 03-02-2015 6:41pm

Jacob Disgusting Diner wrote: »

.95 works for you but if you want i can schedule a 1hr tt to find out:)

No need, I just have to cycle with bennymul and I am in the red above ftp for most of the cycle!!!

peter kern · 03-02-2015 6:48pm

mossym wrote: »

other than going out and trying the sessions afterwards, how do you verify the 0.95 multipler? (serious question)

the best way would be looking at your powerfiles over a while ( road power files if you train on road, turbo power files for turbo sessions) .

tunney · 03-02-2015 6:55pm

Pmaldini wrote: »

No need, I just have to cycle with bennymul and I am in the red above ftp for most of the cycle!!!

Assuming your rides are over an hour I suspect you need to get a primer from your coach on what FTP is

tunney · 03-02-2015 6:56pm

peter kern wrote: »

the best way would be looking at your powerfiles over a while ( road power files if you train on road, turbo power files for turbo sessions) .

this is actually a very good way of determining/verifying but it does need a lot of data in my experience.

tunney · 04-02-2015 10:21am

Arthurdaly wrote: »

Just as an observation the target watts are pretty aggressive (30+), what sort of shape are you guys in from your starting point? Not sure what to expect in terms of improvement but from speaking with guys who use power a 20/30 watt improvement for a well trained rider would be around the norm.

To be fair you got a hard time here Arthydaly. I know I looked and thought "damn cyclist coming over here taking our jobs and our women" so I said nothing. Beasty showed me the light yesterday in a series of PMs.

The thing to remember about triathlon (and indeed cycling at the A4 level) is that most who "are seriously about their training", have only *just* become serious. Before that they fvcked around with no real structure or purpose to their training.

Any basic training plan that provides structure and consistency will yield 15-25% gains year on year in years 1, 2 and sometimes 3. Although in year three closer to 15%. That is of course if the plan is followed. And most crucially the person is still in the sport after year 2. Most are not.

After year three the gains are harder and harder to get and for a trained athlete with 3+ years under their belt of serious training their gains will start to be marginal.

A quick scan of the table shows most are in year 1 or year 2 of "proper" training. With the exception of Jack who has fvcked about for decades

Gains in the beginning are simple, gains after a few years are hard.

BennyMul · 04-02-2015 2:51pm

User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
Mossym|245w|||266||||||||266w|3.36|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
MAntoD||283w||296w||||||||296w|4.28|330w|5.00|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
Kurt Godel||||267W||||||||267W|2.98|300W|3.65|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
tegerman||||304W||||||||304W|3.9|350W|4.48|Strava estimate|Stages
Pmaldini||||210W|230W|||||||230W|2.94|250W|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|PowerTap
Arthurdaly||||273w||||||||273w|3.8|300w|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Garmin Vector
Benny||||240||||||||240|2.8|>240|4|T5+T20*0.95|PowerTap

Not happy at all with this;
Im fat and slow :mad:

on a serious note, any suggestions on how to improve
should I simply concentrate on FPT/sweet spot sessions, or Vo2 max, or both

peter kern · 04-02-2015 2:58pm

tunney wrote: »

this is actually a very good way of determining/verifying but it does need a lot of data in my experience.

and to add differentiate road bike vs tt bike power

tunney · 04-02-2015 4:06pm

BennyMul wrote: »

User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
Mossym|245w|||266||||||||266w|3.36|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
MAntoD||283w||296w||||||||296w|4.28|330w|5.00|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
Kurt Godel||||267W||||||||267W|2.98|300W|3.65|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
tegerman||||304W||||||||304W|3.9|350W|4.48|Strava estimate|Stages
Pmaldini||||210W|230W|||||||230W|2.94|250W|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|PowerTap
Arthurdaly||||273w||||||||273w|3.8|300w|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Garmin Vector
Benny||||240||||||||240|2.8|>240|4|T5+T20*0.95|PowerTap

Not happy at all with this;
Im fat and slow :mad:

on a serious note, any suggestions on how to improve
should I simply concentrate on FPT/sweet spot sessions, or Vo2 max, or both

go hard, go often

1 on/1 off sessions at full gas
upto 6x(6 110-120%, 4 easy)

Basically suffer like a pig.

I'd stay away from the sweet spot and < 100% reps unless they are only back up to the real work

pgibbo · 04-02-2015 4:23pm

What's your rationale for the pull up rather than push up approach Dave? Is it based on experience, science or both?

mossym · 04-02-2015 8:10pm

pgibbo wrote: »

What's your rationale for the pull up rather than push up approach Dave? Is it based on experience, science or both?

Sadistic tendenies not a possibility?

Kurt Godel · 24-02-2015 3:24pm

User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
Mossym|245w|||266||||||||266w|3.36|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
MAntoD||283w||296w||||||||296w|4.28|330w|5.00|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
Kurt Godel||||267W|290W|||||||290W|3.22|300W|3.65|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
tegerman||||304W||||||||304W|3.9|350W|4.48|Strava estimate|Stages
Pmaldini||||210W|230W|||||||230W|2.94|250W|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|PowerTap
Arthurdaly||||273w||||||||273w|3.8|300w|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Garmin Vector
Benny||||240||||||||240|2.8|>240|4|T5+T20*0.95|PowerTap

This was very tough- I didn't hit the splits for the 5min but kept it around 330-340W average, and was wrecked at the end. 10 min easy, then into the 20 mins. I wanted to keep it above 300W but started a little too hard, and was hurting before 2 mins gone. At 5 mins I felt like bailing, but kept lying "just one more minute...". By halfway I was wrecked but just kept going. I was counting down in batches of 10 secs each... it took a long time to finish. Nearly fell off the bike at the end, was still panting three mins into the cooldown, and am still shaky as I type this

Bambaata · 24-02-2015 4:24pm

Sounds like you did it right then. Have my own pencilled in for Thursday

speedyj · 24-02-2015 4:32pm

tunney wrote: »

A quick scan of the table shows most are in year 1 or year 2 of "proper" training. With the exception of Jack who has fvcked about for decades

Oi! I resemble that remark

hf4z6sqo7vjngi · 24-02-2015 5:36pm

tunney wrote: »

A quick scan of the table shows most are in year 1 or year 2 of "proper" training. With the exception of Jack who has fvcked about for decades

Not sure how i missed this originally, i blame the coach at the time:)

Was up to 320w based off some sessions but back around where i was in Jan due to a reduction in training. Good news is weight is now down to 68kg and up to 4.55w/kg. Not sure i will make the 5w/kg target this season although with some races behind me it should help improve things further.
The main thing is i felt much stronger in my first race of the season last weekend compared to any of the bike races i done last year.

shotgunmcos · 24-02-2015 9:41pm

tunney wrote: »

A quick scan of the table shows most are in year 1 or year 2 of "proper" training. With the exception of Jack who has fvcked about for decades

.

Loathe as I am to take a sample out of context but your "quick scan" is also based on inate knowledge of the poster profiles and of which some you are the coach :rolleyes:

Where are your numbers by the way? :P And what is wrong with Sweet spot training? Apart from VO2 reps, is it not best bang for buck?

tunney · 24-02-2015 10:34pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Loathe as I am to take a sample out of context but your "quick scan" is also based on inate knowledge of the poster profiles and of which some you are the coach :rolleyes:

Where are your numbers by the way? :P And what is wrong with Sweet spot training? Apart from VO2 reps, is it not best bang for buck?

Yes I am aware of most on that tables training and history. Doesn't make what I said any less true. year 1/2 are the easy gains.

My numbers? I'm retarded retired on a break its complicated.

tunney · 24-02-2015 10:35pm

Jacob Disgusting Diner wrote: »

Not sure how i missed this originally, i blame the coach at the time:)

He who skips straight to year five in a five year plan is doomed to repeat that year

FTP thread - 2015 - get quick or die trying

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