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FTP thread - 2015 - get quick or die trying

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  • 09-10-2014 12:23pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭


    Another year, another winter of suffering. Power up, weight down and get quicker, simples:) Feel free to post up sessions & approach rather than multiple table posts.

    For me i have been polarised for a while with just under 20% of my training currently spent in Z4/Z5 with a little in Z6 and the rest is kept easy. This is based on Coggans Power Zones.

    Main focus at the moment is some BG work and VO2 intervals mainly in Z4/Z5 territory but i will move onto harder Z6/Z7 AC & max effort work when i am ready. I found i made some big gains quickly when i had a few weeks focusing on AC which translated well into racing.

    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|||||||||||280w|3.94|340w|5.00|1hrtt/race data|SRMs
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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|||||||||||280w|3.94|340w|5.00|1hrtt/race data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
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    didn't want you feeling lonely JB:)

    First ever proper FTP test. reckon it's pretty accurate. made a rookie mistake in not hitting the lap button before each tt, but lucklily GC provides max 5 min and max 20 min power levels. based on that, 95% puts me at 245w.

    ftptest_zpsa766c7c8.png

    Targets are based on an FTP increase and a weight drop, i won't hit that that W/KG on power up alone. not as big an increase as JB is targetting, but then again we can't all focus on bike alone, some run goals as well.

    number might be a tad low, legs have been dead for the last few days, so might gain a little on that number, but i'm happy it's pretty close to the real number, so a good basis to get some work done.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    I have a Taxc flow. Can someone give me FTP tests I can do on this? I have one that JB sent me (that I've never done) just wondering what others I can do. I don't really care if it's not very accurate doing testing on this (tunney)...if I do them and cycle regularly it will give me an idea of improvements either way. I'm not buying a power meter...

    Also, if someone has a step by step guide to setting the flow up that would also be great as I'm pretty sure I'll be lost when I try as it is a LONG time since I took the turbo out. Hope it still works...


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    I have a Taxc flow. Can someone give me FTP tests I can do on this? I have one that JB sent me (that I've never done) just wondering what others I can do. I don't really care if it's not very accurate doing testing on this (tunney)...if I do them and cycle regularly it will give me an idea of improvements either way. I'm not buying a power meter...

    Also, if someone has a step by step guide to setting the flow up that would also be great as I'm pretty sure I'll be lost when I try as it is a LONG time since I took the turbo out. Hope it still works...

    I have a flow. for starters clean the turbo and make sure the flywheel is free of grit etc.

    Ensure tyre is pumped to normal road psi

    hold both buttons and it will count down to 0

    start pedalling until it says stop (if still pedalling after a minute, pedal harder!)

    You will get a value of your brake calibration, usually a + or - number

    If say it is +5, the brake is too heavy so you will need to adjust the black knob to loosen the pressure of the flywheel against the tyre.

    Usually a quarter to a half turn, then re calibrate. If the value moves to say +2 you have turned the knob the right way. Adjust again another quarter turn and re calibrate. You are looking for 0 or +1

    Test is basically warm up for 10-15 minutes incorporating 5 20-30 sec sprints. Then 5 minutes hard, harder than you plan to test. Pedal easy for 5 mins. TT is then 20 minutes as hard as you can sustain. Ideally start hard but conservative, you don't want to burn out half way. Ideally you will muster a charge for the line over the last few minutes, emptying the tank.

    Or, just do an hour and max out :)

    Once you have your results you can plan all sorts of goodie turbo interval sessions !


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    mossym wrote: »
    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|||||||||||280w|3.94|340w|5.00|1hrtt/race data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|5tt+20tt*0.95|Power2Max
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    didn't want you feeling lonely JB:)

    First ever proper FTP test. reckon it's pretty accurate. made a rookie mistake in not hitting the lap button before each tt, but lucklily GC provides max 5 min and max 20 min power levels. based on that, 95% puts me at 245w.

    ftptest_zpsa766c7c8.png

    Targets are based on an FTP increase and a weight drop, i won't hit that that W/KG on power up alone. not as big an increase as JB is targetting, but then again we can't all focus on bike alone, some run goals as well.

    number might be a tad low, legs have been dead for the last few days, so might gain a little on that number, but i'm happy it's pretty close to the real number, so a good basis to get some work done.

    However you are in year two of "proper work", much more gains and had more easily in year two/three than in later years


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    I reckon i will be testing soon enough again:o


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭MAntoD


    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|||||||||||280w|3.94|340w|5.00|1hrtt/race data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||||||||||283w|3.97|330w|4.9|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
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    Coming back from a stress fracture so building back into it. Week usually consists of one tempo ride 70-90 mins zone 3 outside, one technique session on the turbo, short threshold intervals focusing on strength and leg speed and one long ride on the weekend which usually has two lots of 15-20 min zone three towards the end. Hoping to progress these to 2 x 45 min sweetspot by end of Jan and then the real fun will begin with some long threshold work! :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|295w||||||||||295w|4.24|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||||||||||283w|3.97|330w|4.9|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
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    5% increase based off recent sessions. 1.5kg weight loss in the same time so up to 4.24w/kg. Nice to see but means nothing until i see how i get on in the first race of the season.


  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭speedyj


    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|295w||||||||||295w|4.24|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||||||||||283w|3.97|330w|4.9|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
    speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
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    I knew I was unfit but what a reality check :eek: I'll progress to 20min test in 2015 once I've done one or two more of these. Of course weight is a bit up also (but not enough to join that biscuit thread :)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    speedyj wrote: »
    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|295w||||||||||295w|4.24|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||||||||||283w|3.97|330w|4.9|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
    speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
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    I knew I was unfit but what a reality check :eek: I'll progress to 20min test in 2015 once I've done one or two more of these. Of course weight is a bit up also (but not enough to join that biscuit thread :)


    so how are you transferring the 2*8 mins test to an ftp? what % of the power for 8 mins are you taking?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    mossym wrote: »
    so how are you transferring the 2*8 mins test to an ftp? what % of the power for 8 mins are you taking?

    90% normally, dont like the protocol that TR use and a 2x8min test in my own mind is a waste of time.

    As a matter of interest why not do the 20min test?


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    90% normally, dont like the protocol that TR use and a 2x8min test in my own mind is a waste of time.

    ouch. rough estimate, that method would mean a much higher ftp (30 to 40W) for me, and not one i'd like to be trying to work to for over threshold intervals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭speedyj


    90% normally, dont like the protocol that TR use and a 2x8min test in my own mind is a waste of time.

    As a matter of interest why not do the 20min test?

    Yes I'll def take it with a large pinch of salt but if I do a few of them they'll be somewhat comparable, which is all I'm looking for in my current state. Interestingly I averaged identically for both reps (I think it was 268). I'll move onto the 20 soon enough.

    As to why, I need some time to adapt to indoor training (read I'm a wimp :))


  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭gilleek2


    speedyj wrote: »
    Yes I'll def take it with a large pinch of salt but if I do a few of them they'll be somewhat comparable, which is all I'm looking for in my current state. Interestingly I averaged identically for both reps (I think it was 268). I'll move onto the 20 soon enough.

    As to why, I need some time to adapt to indoor training (read I'm a wimp :))

    Lots of sweaty nights, i mean hard graft in the man cave for you so!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    gilleek2 wrote: »
    Lots of sweaty nights, i mean hard graft in the man cave for you so!

    Come on gilleek, time for your own big reveal. Don't be shy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭gilleek2


    BTH wrote: »
    Come on gilleek, time for your own big reveal. Don't be shy.

    Big reveal? Its not Operation Transformation or The Biggest Loser.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||||||||||283w|3.97|330w|4.9|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
    speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
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    Based off a 302w hour session last week, its probably about right. Half way there to my target, gains will not come as easy though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭MAntoD


    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||296w||||||||296w|4.28|330w|5.00|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
    speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
    |||||||||||||||||
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    Did this on NYE. 312w for the 20 min so it left me with ~296w (Strava estimates at 303 which seems a little high????). Was supposed to do one middle of December but work and illness prevented that. I've lost just over a kg and plan to slowly get down to race weight over the next few months (I still have about 3 kg to loose!!) so my goal will be a combo of getting fitter and leaner.

    Still doing two turbo sessions midweek and a long ride on the weekends. Long rides have tended to be group spins and I'm just trying to spend as much time riding tempo on the front. Turbos have been exclusively working on legspeed and strength, mostly in upper zone 3. Will be adding in some proper sweetspot work over the next six weeks so am hoping to see some big gains next time I test!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    Whats the formula for FTP? Power2Max, 5min TT 315W av, 10 min EZ, 20min TT 281W av. Anyone?

    * Edit: I see Mossy has T5+T20*0.95... is it (T5+T20)*0.95 or T5+(T20*0.95)?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    95% of 20 min power i used i think, but i've seen 90% mentioned as well.

    95 would put you at 267. w/kg is then pretty obvious, but is the more telling number.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    Whats the formula for FTP? Power2Max, 5min TT 315W av, 10 min EZ, 20min TT 281W av. Anyone?

    .95 of the 20min or .925 for some. Based on using .95 that woukd be 267w. A question i would ask myself is can i hold that for an hour, if not the .925 calculation might be more appropriate at 260w (not much in it in fairness)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||296w||||||||296w|4.28|330w|5.00|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
    speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
    Kurt Godel||||267W||||||||267W|2.98|300W|3.65|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
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    Thanks lads, I'll go with 0.95 since its just a measure of like-with-like on this table. I let the form dip a bit halfway through the 20min TT, being unsure if I could hold it, but picked it up again towards the end. Finished strong enough, hard but I'd say there is still some flogging left out there.

    15modxt.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 tegerman


    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||296w||||||||296w|4.28|330w|5.00|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
    speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
    Kurt Godel||||267W||||||||267W|2.98|300W|3.65|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    tegerman||||304W||||||||304W|3.9|350W|4.48|Strava estimate|Stages
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    Using strava estimate so probably a little higher than actual. For extra motivation, if I hit my target I will reward myself with a nice new bike.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    tegerman wrote: »
    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||296w||||||||296w|4.28|330w|5.00|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
    speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
    Kurt Godel||||267W||||||||267W|2.98|300W|3.65|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    tegerman||||304W||||||||304W|3.9|350W|4.48|Strava estimate|Stages
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    Using strava estimate so probably a little higher than actual. For extra motivation, if I hit my target I will reward myself with a nice new bike.

    Bad enough speedyj using near useless 2x8

    But strava estimate....


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 tegerman


    tunney wrote: »
    Bad enough speedyj using near useless 2x8

    But strava estimate....

    Thats strava estimate based on full power curve data from power meter of all rides, not strava estimate based on speed/grade. I know I can hold 315W for 15 minutes in a close-to-all-out effort so 304W as a FTP estimate is probably pretty accurate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭Pmaldini


    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||||||||||245w|3.1|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||296w||||||||296w|4.28|330w|5.00|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
    speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
    Kurt Godel||||267W||||||||267W|2.98|300W|3.65|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    tegerman||||304W||||||||304W|3.9|350W|4.48|Strava estimate|Stages
    Pmaldini||||210W||||||||210W|2.69|250W|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|PowerTap
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    i wasn't going to post, i was a bit intimidated by all those big numbers up there^^^^ but decided it would keep me motivated to keep training and get a bit stronger on the bike:eek:


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||266||||||||266w|3.36|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||296w||||||||296w|4.28|330w|5.00|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
    speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
    Kurt Godel||||267W||||||||267W|2.98|300W|3.65|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    tegerman||||304W||||||||304W|3.9|350W|4.48|Strava estimate|Stages
    Pmaldini||||210W||||||||210W|2.69|250W|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|PowerTap
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    going to have to up that target i think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Arthurdaly


    User|Oct|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|280w|295w|310w|||||||||310w|4.42|340w|5.00|1hrtt,race or session data|SRMs
    Mossym|245w|||266||||||||266w|3.36|270w|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    MAntoD||283w||296w||||||||296w|4.28|330w|5.00|Sufferfest Rubber Glove|Stages
    speedyj||243w||||||||||243w|3.375|280w|4.0|TrainerRoad 2x8|Computrainer
    Kurt Godel||||267W||||||||267W|2.98|300W|3.65|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
    tegerman||||304W||||||||304W|3.9|350W|4.48|Strava estimate|Stages
    Pmaldini||||210W||||||||210W|2.69|250W|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|PowerTap
    Arthurdaly||||273w||||||||273w|3.8|300w|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Garmin Vector
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    Okay new to this forum and only interested in biking. Just started training with power last month and first test 3/4 weeks ago. I'm complete geek with numbers so enjoy all this FTP stuff. Main goals are sub 60 min TT and road racing stage races like Gorey and Suir Valley so more interested in the watts/kg rather than absolute power.


  • Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Arthurdaly


    Just as an observation the target watts are pretty aggressive (30+), what sort of shape are you guys in from your starting point? Not sure what to expect in terms of improvement but from speaking with guys who use power a 20/30 watt improvement for a well trained rider would be around the norm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Bambaata


    I would guess the initial numbers are from coming off a break at the end of a season so hence a large enough increase would be expected.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    Arthurdaly wrote: »
    Just as an observation the target watts are pretty aggressive (30+), what sort of shape are you guys in from your starting point? Not sure what to expect in terms of improvement but from speaking with guys who use power a 20/30 watt improvement for a well trained rider would be around the norm.


    without having a dig at cyclists, also worth thinking why you had to come to the triathlon forum for a thread like this and didn't find an equivalent in the cycling forum. the type of racing is different, ftp is more important to triathletes/cyclists focused on TT's, while for those racing A1 to A4 also need to consider their 30 sec/1 min power which most here(with the exception of those here jsut for this table, and JB) don't care much about. max sustained power over time is the main target for us, our sprinting capability is of little interest.


    now with the serious bit out of the way, i can point out the real reason is that the guys who told you that are just cyclists, if they were really capable of training they'd be doing more than one sport and would be over here, in which case they'd be capable of bigger gains.


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