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Be very carefull when "walking/exercising/training" your dogs.

  • 08-10-2014 12:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭


    This may be news to me or common knowledge but NARGC fund members are NOT covered when doing the above mentioned activities. They are not sporting activities, so you are only really covered when you are carrying your gun or working on a pen stuff like that, but you can't exercise or train your dogs during the closed season months.
    ( dogs would be covered if they do/cause harm, but you are not (it's the personal accident) part if the cover afaik

    That do you think???


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭gunny558


    Meaning to ask for ages, does NARGC cover us for fishing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭Tikka391


    gunny558 wrote: »
    Meaning to ask for ages, does NARGC cover us for fishing?

    I'm sorry I don't know,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,777 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Tikka391 wrote: »
    I'm sorry I don't know,

    As far as I could gather from listening to Mr Gavigan at a regional game council meeting in Meath I think the fund covers you for all hunting related activities, I'm not sure about fishing, but why not find out for yourself and ring him. He's a nice approachable chap and his details are on the NARGC website.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    As far as I could gather from listening to Mr Gavigan at a regional game council meeting in Meath I think the fund covers you for all hunting related activities,....................
    The Mixed bag comp that we run each year has a disclaimer in it for just such a thing. Lads covered under such funds might find themselves out of coverage when taking part in such shoots/events/comps. It's why we have to notify our members before they sign up to take part in it.

    Have a read of the warning at the end of this post.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭Tikka391


    As far as I could gather from listening to Mr Gavigan at a regional game council meeting in Meath I think the fund covers you for all hunting related activities, I'm not sure about fishing, but why not find out for yourself and ring him. He's a nice approachable chap and his details are on the NARGC website.

    Yes but you won't get far on a hunting day with an unfit dog. What happens if I'm out training my dog and fall getting of a gate or fence or something like that. It might seem a bit random but that's why i have or thought I had cover. How do dog trailing men who are members of the NARGC train their dogs

    I shoot a lot during pheasant season but might not use shotgun much rest of year but spend a lot of time out with dogs all year.
    Also is my lamp man not covered when he is out with me.
    I'm thinking NARGC cover not worth it. But gun clubs are all affiliated to it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Lotharmike


    Just about to look into this myself.had an accident that seemed harmless enough three weeks ago.On too my third operation & second stay in hospital for a number of days.What may seem harmless enough can lead into something far bigger very quickly.On a side note I cannot stress the importance of a well stocked medi kit on the ground.Stay safe all.
    Mike


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    You are covered it doesn't matter if you have a gun or not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭deerhunter1


    Tikka391 wrote: »
    Yes but you won't get far on a hunting day with an unfit dog. What happens if I'm out training my dog and fall getting of a gate or fence or something like that. It might seem a bit random but that's why i have or thought I had cover. How do dog trailing men who are members of the NARGC train their dogs

    I shoot a lot during pheasant season but might not use shotgun much rest of year but spend a lot of time out with dogs all year.
    Also is my lamp man not covered when he is out with me.
    I'm thinking NARGC cover not worth it. But gun clubs are all affiliated to it.

    Just say if anything happens you had your gun with you and you were shooting you are covered for a full year


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭berettaman


    As far as I know there are a number of resolutions for this years NARGC AGM that address any deficiencies in fund cover..overall the cover represents good value but needs tweaking now and then..
    The AGM is this weekend I think...


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    It's not insurance though. That is not intended to be pedantic, but there is a difference between insurance and compensation fund, which the NARGC has. A compensation fund has limits. I believe, someone might be better able to explain than me, that there is an insurance policy on the fund for excessive claims or excess of loss. It still means you are covered, but there are rules and regulations like you would get with other providers that offer insurance.

    This is why we offer the warning on competitions such as the mixed bag one. It's important for each person/shooter to know if they are covered or not while pursuing certain activities. It was actually the compensation fund that was specifically mentioned to us years ago that caused us to place the notice. I don't understand the ins and outs of the fund, but it's better to check and be sure than assume and find yourself in trouble.

    Much like LotharMike (hope you a speedy recovery, bud) said, something simple can turn serious quickly.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Varmint Shooter


    Tikka391 wrote: »
    ...............Also is my lamp man not covered when he is out with me......

    He is, once he has insurance in his own right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭berettaman


    Hi Cass, I know what you are saying, I was using the term insurance loosely..Sorry for any confusion,,
    Most guys I know just refer to it as insurance.. they don't say have you paid into the compensation fund yet?...
    Anyway, the list of what is covered by the fund grows by the year and I reckon anything not covered will be fixed by resolutions sooner or later.

    Lothar Mike, hope you get better soon man and it all works out ok..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Varmint Shooter


    I prefer the fund concept. Seen insurance companies find ways of not paying claims a fair few times but I've never heard of NARGC not paying out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,777 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Ultimately the fund, in reality Mr Gavigan as it's administrator, has quite some discretion and from hearing him talk and talking to him I'd be quite surprised if training your gun dog is not seen as an activity covered by the fund.

    Cass you're quite right in saying that the fund has it's limitations and that it is insured for "doomsday" scenarios.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Lotharmike wrote: »
    Just about to look into this myself.had an accident that seemed harmless enough three weeks ago.On too my third operation & second stay in hospital for a number of days.What may seem harmless enough can lead into something far bigger very quickly.On a side note I cannot stress the importance of a well stocked medi kit on the ground.Stay safe all.
    Mike

    Jesus lad that sounds like a serious dose. Hope it gets better sooner rather than later.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Lotharmike


    Vegeta wrote: »
    Jesus lad that sounds like a serious dose. Hope it gets better sooner rather than later.

    Hopefully last appointment this Friday ,going stir crazy at the moment injury on the predominant hand at the small finger knuckle & palm.Surgery did not help made it nearly three times bigger.Long story, still got my first Fallow of the season the night it happened so not all bad.Cannot stress a well stocked medical kit is an essential item to carry you never know what will happen.Looking forward to hitting the ground shortly,counting the hours.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    Back in the 80's, so it may have since changed, when I used to do a lot of scuba diving we had club insurance through the national sports diving body CFT. This 'insurance' was very specific on the does and don'ts.
    A new club member with a relevant professional back ground looked over the insurance and discovered that it was far from an insurance but infact a form of compensation / liability fund, meaning that members would be covered in the event of liability. If I had an accident then I had no cover, if I caused an accident then i was covered. So in the event of a death the individuals diving buddy would be sued, or a relevant club officer. This did not sit well with the club members.

    Anyhow this was over 30 yrs ago, but it does highlight the difference between insurance and compensation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,777 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Back in the 80's, so it may have since changed, when I used to do a lot of scuba diving we had club insurance through the national sports diving body CFT. This 'insurance' was very specific on the does and don'ts.
    A new club member with a relevant professional back ground looked over the insurance and discovered that it was far from an insurance but infact a form of compensation / liability fund, meaning that members would be covered in the event of liability. If I had an accident then I had no cover, if I caused an accident then i was covered. So in the event of a death the individuals diving buddy would be sued, or a relevant club officer. This did not sit well with the club members.

    Anyhow this was over 30 yrs ago, but it does highlight the difference between insurance and compensation.

    That's not necessarily because it's a compensation fund. We can both have a car insurance with the same company but depending on what cover we bought different incidents will be covered or not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭Tikka391


    You are covered it doesn't matter if you have a gun or not.

    No. If you don't have your gun, say walking dogs, you are not partaking in a "sporting activity" you under the personal cover are not covered


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭Tikka391


    He is, once he has insurance in his own right.

    Well how many policies does one need.
    I'm sure when he pays the NARGC every summer he thinks hd is fully covered.

    He is NOT covered


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Tikka391 wrote: »
    He is NOT covered

    Do you have a link to terms and conditions or the specific section of the compensation fund you're discussing above?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    That's not necessarily because it's a compensation fund. We can both have a car insurance with the same company but depending on what cover we bought different incidents will be covered or not.

    Exactly, the example being 3rd party in which you and yours are not covered.
    The devil as always is in the detail, and this is the topic of the thread, as card carrying members of NARGC what is covered?

    I must admit that I am clueless as to the cover and only hold it as to the terms of my club, as I did with the Countryside Alliance insurance (which as far as i can tell was a much broader scheme.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭Tikka391


    Vegeta wrote: »
    Do you have a link to terms and conditions or the specific section of the compensation fund you're discussing above?

    No but I will look into it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Varmint Shooter


    Exactly, the example being 3rd party in which you and yours are not covered.......

    Isn't that the "basic" cover with "personal", as in not 3rd party cover, available for a few quid more? I have "full" cover & I assume I'm covered for 3rd parties & myself as a result.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭Tikka391


    Isn't that the "basic" cover with "personal", as in not 3rd party cover, available for a few quid more? I have "full" cover & I assume I'm covered for 3rd parties & myself as a result.

    Who is your cover with


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Varmint Shooter


    Tikka391 wrote: »
    Who is your cover with

    NARGC


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    I know this is referring to car insurance, but it illustrates a point:

    'Third party, This is the minimum cover required by law, but it does have restrictions and limits, leaving you open to substantial loss in the event of an accident. If you are at fault, then only your passengers and the driver and passengers of the other vehicle will be compensated. This type of insurance provides no cover for damage sustained in an accident to your car or if your car is stolen or goes on fire.'

    From -

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/motor_tax_and_insurance/motor_insurance.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭ace86


    berettaman wrote: »
    As far as I know there are a number of resolutions for this years NARGC AGM that address any deficiencies in fund cover..overall the cover represents good value but needs tweaking now and then..
    The AGM is this weekend I think...

    where is the AGM on do u know?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭Tikka391


    NARGC

    If you are not shooting or tending a pen/feeders and just walking or training dogs, no gun in hand you are not covered.
    So don't trip or fall of a gate and break a leg.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    You are covered

    edit: attachments removed at request of the DRGC treasurer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭berettaman


    ACE 86, It is on in Athlone this year. Radisson I believe..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭Brianmeath


    You are covered

    Good stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    Brianmeath wrote: »
    Good stuff.
    its not mine :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭Brianmeath


    its not mine :D

    Dont mind me long week.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Varmint Shooter


    So, this thread is a result od someone **** stirring about NARGC


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    So, this thread is a result od someone **** stirring about NARGC

    Yes he was told he was covered already I'm the thread but kept it up


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    So, this thread is a result od someone **** stirring about NARGC

    I wouldn't class the clarification of details on something as important as insurance, as **** stirring.

    Looking at the letter from the NARGC it's obvious there were genuine concerns about the level of cover among the Dublin Regional Game Council. Dates are quite recent on those letters.

    I would see it as a positive that this has been cleared up publicly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Varmint Shooter


    Vegeta wrote: »
    I wouldn't class the clarification of details on something as important as insurance, as **** stirring.

    Looking at the letter from the NARGC it's obvious there were genuine concerns about the level of cover among the Dublin Regional Game Council. Dates are quite recent on those letters.

    I would see it as a positive that this has been cleared up publicly.

    Fair points.

    Rumours & **** stirring seems to be endemic in our sport. Not the first time person/s unknown have been trying to smear NARGC within our community in this way. Commercial interests looking to get new customers I reckon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    Vegeta wrote: »
    I wouldn't class the clarification of details on something as important as insurance, as **** stirring.

    Looking at the letter from the NARGC it's obvious there were genuine concerns about the level of cover among the Dublin Regional Game Council. Dates are quite recent on those letters.

    I would see it as a positive that this has been cleared up publicly.
    Them letter came about because of a bit of **** stirring at meetings, the usual though, people being notice boxes and liking the sound of their own voice,making something from noting even though they were told they where covered carrying out any aspects of our sport.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭Tikka391


    Fair points.

    Rumours & **** stirring seems to be endemic in our sport. Not the first time person/s unknown have been trying to smear NARGC within our community in this way. Commercial interests looking to get new customers I reckon.

    Do you reckon?
    I reckon not.
    I have been a member of NARGC since about 1997 or 98 and never had a problem and still don't. I heard this info at a regional meeting from a regional chairman who had a copy of a letter from the fund director to a fund member telling him he was not covered for a very bad injury witch happened to him. This is info coming straight from the top of the NARGC. And not Rumours & **** stirring. I have been trying all day emails and phone calls to my regional chairman and fund director but no luck for further comment on this. Maybe it has been cleared up since the meeting a couple of weeks ago.

    And what do you mean?
    "Not the first time person/s unknown have been trying to smear NARGC within our community in this way."
    Who do you have to be to post on this forum is there some sort of clique mentality going on or do you have to have thousands of posts before you can be not " person unknown" and be put down. Jesus if I'm wrong I'm wrong if I'm right I'm right. I thought that was the idea of forums like this.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Tikka391 wrote: »
    Who do you have to be to post on this forum is there some sort of clique mentality going on or do you have to have thousands of posts before you can be not " person unknown" and be put down.
    No you don't, and I'm getting a bit sick of the crap in the last couple of posts aimed at the OP. Someone has a question about their insurance and they ask and then two anonymous people lay into them complaining about (amongst other things) anonymity?

    Enough of that nonsense. Knock it on the head now if you please lads. There's a "Don't be a dick" rule for a good reason and you're breaking it at the moment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Varmint Shooter


    Sparks wrote: »
    No you don't, and I'm getting a bit sick of the crap in the last couple of posts aimed at the OP. Someone has a question about their insurance and they ask and then two anonymous people lay into them complaining about (amongst other things) anonymity?

    Enough of that nonsense. Knock it on the head now if you please lads. There's a "Don't be a dick" rule for a good reason and you're breaking it at the moment.

    if I'm one of them you'll have to explain what I've done wrong as for the life of me I can't figure out what crap you're a bit sick of.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    if I'm one of them you'll have to explain what I've done wrong as for the life of me I can't figure out what crap you're a bit sick of.
    The OP asks a question; you give no useful information at all in any of the few posts you make in reply, except to throw rocks at non-NARGC companies (which is a bit ironic given your later posts), then someone else actually answers the original question, and then you dive in accusing the OP of ****-stirring about the NARGC.

    So you were of no use to answer a question and then you attack the person who asked the question for having asked it. That attitude isn't on and we don't want to see it in this forum so cut it out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Varmint Shooter


    Sparks wrote: »
    The OP asks a question; you give no useful information at all in any of the few posts you make in reply, except to throw rocks at non-NARGC companies (which is a bit ironic given your later posts), then someone else actually answers the original question, and then you dive in accusing the OP of ****-stirring about the NARGC.

    So you were of no use to answer a question and then you attack the person who asked the question for having asked it. That attitude isn't on and we don't want to see it in this forum so cut it out.

    At no point was I referring to the original poster. It was & is now even more blatantly obvious that the original poster was reacting to misinformation that he received from elsewhere. If I was "attacking" anyone it was the source of the misinformation.


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