**Spoilers** Series 8, Episode 7 - "Kill The Moon"

pixelburp

Love the title if nothing else!

Supposedly, first-time Who writer Peter Harness was instructed by Moffat to "Hinchcliffe the s**t out of it [the script]", so I guess there's a strong chance this weeks story will be a dark, horror-tinged adventure, harking back to Tom Baker's early years, when the show was presided over by then chief-writer Phillip Hinchcliffe. These stories were often dark and violent, dripping with gothic horror (insofar as budgets allowed), and while it was generally considered a high water mark in the classic series' run, it lead to a vocal backlash from concerned viewers & worrywarts that the show was becoming too dark and scary, ultimately forcing a change of tone and starting the slow decline into the neon camp the series became in later years.

So as a big fan of the Hinchcliffe era, kinda looking forward to this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leGP3JXSSxQ

tritium

pixelburp wrote: »

Love the title if nothing else!

Supposedly, first-time Who writer Peter Harness was instructed by Moffat to "Hinchcliffe the s**t out of it [the script]", so I guess there's a strong chance this weeks story will be a dark, horror-tinged adventure, harking back to Tom Baker's early years, when the show was presided over by then chief-writer Phillip Hinchcliffe. These stories were often dark and violent, dripping with gothic horror (insofar as budgets allowed), and while it was generally considered a high water mark in the classic series' run, it lead to a vocal backlash from concerned viewers & worrywarts that the show was becoming too dark and scary, ultimately forcing a change of tone and starting the slow decline into the neon camp the series became in later years.

So as a big fan of the Hinchcliffe era, kinda looking forward to this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leGP3JXSSxQ

From the next time..trailer it all looks a bit Dr Who meets Alien.

Hope I'm wrong though...

Or right in a good way....

If you know what I mean

Das Kitty

I'm all for darker. However, Listen was the first episode I wasn't willing to show my son. He's got a thick skin and a love of horror and dark things (even though he's not five til January), but I thought that the ambiguity about the monster meant that I couldn't be sure he'd be nightmare free. Normally, it's the Doctor who saves the day, but that didn't happen in that episode.

It'll be a real treat for him in a few years' time.

I'm going to preview this one for him too. Can't wait!

flazio

Question is, will we see the moonites?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G17_B4uACgg

Wibbs

Technically they'd be called Selenites. Once I helped win a game of Trivial pursuit with that answer. In Italian. Oh yes.

FloatingVoter

I'm guessing Capaldi wasn't hired to bring fun and joy to the universe. Dark and disturbing with seriously Scottish eyebrows in were the job description. I suffered Matt Smith and his clown antics for long enough - lets get the show on the road. Death to the moon.

scream

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I'm guessing Capaldi wasn't hired to bring fun and joy to the universe. Dark and disturbing with seriously Scottish eyebrows in were the job description. I suffered Matt Smith and his clown antics for long enough - lets get the show on the road. Death to the moon.

I agree completely. I'm getting a little tired of the endless comedic antics/silliness at this point.

Lord TSC

So Clara's plan was "No likely, no lighty!"?

Un Croissant

Getting real tired of Claras **** leave the Doctor alone!! :P I hope that young girl isn't the new companion though.

Blue_Dabadee

I guess this means Clara will be off for a few episodes and return for season final.

FloatingVoter

Right - the moon is an egg. It's a pity I'm on a sober stretch right now, that episode would be a cracker if you were watching it stoned.

Manach

Personally I did not like it. "Cheap and pathetic" as Clara says.

Blue_Dabadee

This episode had soo potential to be good when you look at trailer but they blew it.

scream

Wasn't bad, but didn't live up to the hype. I liked it on the whole though. The new kid could get very annoying, very quick so I'm really hoping she's not going to be around too much. Apart from which Doctor Who's not for kids, it's for adults so they better not be letting the kiddies infiltrate my adult programming.

Clara was right to be p!ssed off at the Doctor though. If he doesn't feel any kind of responsibility toward Clara and her safety then what's he been doing all this time, through endless decades of travelling with human companions and numerous regenerations he's always put the safety of his companions above all else, and yet here he seems to just throw it all to the wind and leave her to it. He may well have always planned to come back for her no matter what, but Clara was spot on when she said it was patronising. He handled that very badly.

I'd be p!ssed too.

Doctor DooM

Did not like.


It had loads of elements I usually do like, but none of it hung together.

Doctor DooM

scream wrote: »

Apart from which Doctor Who's not for kids, it's for adults so they better not be letting the kiddies infiltrate my adult programming.

Better tell them to stop running competitions on Blue Peter so...

Un Croissant

Four of us here watched it and when the moon regenerated I just thought 'wtf is going on?'

Mr Rhode Island Red

Didn't think that was great.

Don't know what else to say.

Wibbs

scream wrote: »

Clara was right to be p!ssed off at the Doctor though. If he doesn't feel any kind of responsibility toward Clara and her safety then what's he been doing all this time, through endless decades of travelling with human companions and numerous regenerations he's always put the safety of his companions above all else, and yet here he seems to just throw it all to the wind and leave her to it. He may well have always planned to come back for her no matter what, but Clara was spot on when she said it was patronising. He handled that very badly.

Plus she saved him through all his previous incarnations and stuck around when he turned into grumpy old fart. Like if when Rose went all Bad wolf and saved the day and him and he went "sorry luv, sod off I'm a cat man". It just made no sense, even for an alien and all that.

Un Croissant wrote: »

Four of us here watched it and when the moon regenerated I just thought 'wtf is going on?'

Yep and don't get me started on the "100 million years" the moon has been around. Our moon has been our dancing partner for nigh on four billion years. Maybe it was a succession of regen moons? I'd hope so, as otherwise it was horribly "I couldn't be arsed to google it" lazy. Given it was repeated more than once I'm hoping the script types were subtly saying it was an ongoing life cycle thang.

Doctor DooM

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Did not like.


It had loads of elements I usually do like, but none of it hung together.

I think that sums it up

Sonics2k

Clara getting angry at the Doctor I really enjoyed. In fact for the most part it was quite good.

But Jesus Christ. That ending with the moon hatching and a new one just arriving was pathetic. What a bloody feel good nonsensical bit of faf that was. And it made no bloody sense too. And where did this miraculous beast even go.

I'm actually annoyed and a bit angry over that episode.

They did it so well in "the beast below", like

brandom

I'm seriously beginning to wonder if they are secretly having Stephen King write the endings of some of these episodes, particularly this one and the Robin Hood one.

Frank Lee Midere

Wibbs wrote: »

Plus she saved him through all his previous incarnations and stuck around when he turned into grumpy old fart. Like if when Rose went all Bad wolf and saved the day and him and he went "sorry luv, sod off I'm a cat man". It just made no sense, even for an alien and all that.

Yep and don't get me started on the "100 million years" the moon has been around. Our moon has been our dancing partner for nigh on four billion years. Maybe it was a succession of regen moons? I'd hope so, as otherwise it was horribly "I couldn't be arsed to google it" lazy. Given it was repeated more than once I'm hoping the script types were subtly saying it was an ongoing life cycle thang.

I have a theory that the doctors physical manisfestation - which affects his personality - depends on previous actions. War doctor creates 9 who is a good man but angry. He meets Rose who makes him a better person leading to 10 and 11 who are pussycats. 10/11 learn that you harm your companions no matter what you try to do. So 12 just doesn't care.

tommy2bad

I wonder if the Doctor legging it when it came to deciding to kill or not to kill was driven by his history, perhaps he is getting wary of making the decisions.?
Not sure whats going on with the Clara story line, she both understands the doctor and hates him for it. Danny had it right, she's ready to quit but not disengaged enough to quit now. Miss disruptive was good in this, just the right balance of cock sure and unsure.
The plot made no sense whatsoever, the moon gains weight because it's an egg? Ahem no. Stopping it growing will reduce it's mass? ahem no. The earth abandons all space and is reduced to an old shuttle and some nukes which they fail to tell the crew how to use? ahem no.
Other than that I enjoyed it, nice to see the doctor a darker character, though theirs a danger of alienating the audience if it goes on much more, even I'm getting confused by some of his antics because they make no sense. It's arbitrary as to whether he is nice doctor or nasty doctor. I have a feeling they are out of ideas.
Oh and we got another shot of the blackboard in the tardis, I think this may have some significance.

Mr.Saturn

Anybody getting a slightly sinister air from Danny Pink?

I read a couple reviews before seeing the latest episode, and I didn't find it nearly as rotten as I expected. Doc 12 got a couple nifty moments, Courtney was a bit of a revelation, but Clara's character once again is a bit lopsided, she still seems mostly like a device to explore The Doctor's character than being anything that drives her own plot. Enjoyed the set pieces, if not necessarily the story behind them.

jasonb

I found it interesting as it was a bit different (How the Doctor treated a companion, how the companion reacts to it) and I liked how it kinda dove straight into the action. It also had some interesting 'twists' like the 'Spiders' not actually being the baddies as such, and the 'innocent life' from the trailer not being the schoolgirl.

But I have to say it, I thought it was so heavy-handed about slapping us all in the face re Abortion and Right To Choose that it really distracted me, it took me out of the story and made me say out loud 'ok, we get it'. SciFi can be used to give an opinion on real life issues a lot better, and more subtle, than that episode...

So, yeah, some interesting bits, but a silly plot in general and some annoying bits too. Definitely setting up Clara to leave...

J.

pixelburp

I dunno, it had its good points and bad, it but this story definitely smelled of a plot that was totally in service of that final scene: I suppose that's common enough in any scripted drama that plot and events force characters to react and confront each other, but here it just felt that little bit too on the nose. Almost. And I'm honestly undecided on how I feel about the Clara / Doctor bust-up.

It was a while coming because who wouldn't eventually lash out at the Doctor's - especially this Doctor's - sometimes patronising treatment of humanity, but the scene in the TARDIS felt like a bit of a watershed in the Clara / Doctor relationship. Or any companion / Doctor relationship really; it's kind of hard to see where they go from here because the genie has well and truly come out of the bottle: while episodes like 'The Girl Who Waited' showed a remorse behind the 11th Doctor's callous actions, here it was all simply brazen, arrogant dickishness. Coming off the back of The Caretaker, the last two episodes have, in effect, made the Doctor seem more of an antagonist than the flaky magician who could show you the universe. I hope this is all building to some form of repentance and redemption for the 12 Doctor, if not the writers are shooting themselves in the foot here.

That said, while the substance of the Doctor remains questionable, Capaldi's performance was epic; I particularly liked his all-too-brief moment of joy at realising the moon was a 'beautiful' egg, it was side too rarely seen so far in his tenure. The astronaut's question of 'how do we kill it?' was also pretty chilling.

As for the moon stuff, oh look I'm just going to run with it because why not? Is this even the silliest idea in 2005-brand Doctor Who? I really don't think so, there has been much dafter notions like Pavingslab girlfriends and a planet of Masters. Lets just accept it and move on

scream wrote: »

Wasn't bad, but didn't live up to the hype. I liked it on the whole though. The new kid could get very annoying, very quick so I'm really hoping she's not going to be around too much. Apart from which Doctor Who's not for kids, it's for adults so they better not be letting the kiddies infiltrate my adult programming.

I just watched an episode about how the moon is a giant space-egg, and that comment above's the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day! Doctor Who is a family show, it's absolutely, 100% for kids. and has been from the first episode way back in 1963. The new series may skilfully show how you can write weighty, intense drama mixed in with kid-friendly (or kid-scaring) action, but Doctor Who is loved by children. Long may that continue.

Angron

Didn't care for it. Ham-fisted message in it to say the least. Also really don't like Courtney, so that adds to not liking Clara and Danny.

ebbsy

Perhaps not the greatest Who ever, but watchable nonetheless, and this run is miles better than most of the Smith episodes which were very average at best.

Das Kitty

Only got to watch it tonight.

Ehhhhh. Eh. Yeah, I didn't dig it. They could have put some more work into their moon is an egg pseudoscience. It was a poor effort.

Womankind this is your choice! Great thanks. Now allow me to hold still while you slap me across the face with a wet haddock.

I did like Clara getting really fecking pissed off with the Doctor, though.

Spiders were crap.

Tzar Chasm

Ah here, the rubber spiders were used to great effect in this episode.

Just enough screen presence to make them effective, and a nice little bit of post production trickery

Das Kitty

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Ah here, the rubber spiders were used to great effect in this episode.

Just enough screen presence to make them effective, and a nice little bit of post production trickery

They looked good. But normally even the suggestion of a spider has me scratching and these didn't. I didn't find them remotely creepy.

Wibbs

Though I would say the special effects stuff given it was probably the same Welsh quarry Tom Baker bounced about in didn't look too far from the actual moon. That bit did impress me anyway.

Angron

Das Kitty wrote: »

They looked good. But normally even the suggestion of a spider has me scratching and these didn't. I didn't find them remotely creepy.

Yeah, I found them a bit silly to be honest.

Das Kitty

Wibbs wrote: »

Though I would say the special effects stuff given it was probably the same Welsh quarry Tom Baker bounced about in didn't look too far from the actual moon. That bit did impress me anyway.

Yeah, I was the same. They used very moonish colouring.

tommy2bad

Wibbs wrote: »

Though I would say the special effects stuff given it was probably the same Welsh quarry Tom Baker bounced about in didn't look too far from the actual moon. That bit did impress me anyway.

I think it was Lanzarote playing the part of the moon, but tbh they could have just as easily and far more cheaply used the regularly cast Welsh quarry.

pixelburp

tommy2bad wrote: »

I think it was Lanzarote playing the part of the moon, but tbh they could have just as easily and far more cheaply used the regularly cast Welsh quarry.

There was a rumour of a return to Lanzarote during filming, leading to overzealous fans speculating that an episode might be a sequel to the last Who story filmed there, 'Planet of Fire'. Given how cash-strapped the show has become, I'd be surprised if this story was the only one filmed in that location, I suspect a block of filming was scheduled there, including a couple of episodes' locations. If not, it's a bit wasteful of an already slim budget.

I would agree with the others though that the outdoor Moon sequences looked great, with nice use of colour correction to sell the notion of a lunar landscape.

Rubber_Soul

tommy2bad wrote: »

I think it was Lanzarote playing the part of the moon, but tbh they could have just as easily and far more cheaply used the regularly cast Welsh quarry.

They spoke about this on Extra, the quarry was where they initially thought to film but given the lack of water on the Moon and the abundance of it falling from the sky in Wales they felt it better to shoot somewhere a little less wet.

tritium

I seem to be in a minority in that I quite enjoyed it! Yes there were lits of plot holes but tbh that's every who episode. The CGI at the end was a bit naff but what they wanted to show was always likely to go that way. Lots of interesting issues around ethics put into a nice packaged up sci fi story, which I thought worked fairly well. When the lights went out i kinda expected one light to stay on just to create a sense of hope/ ambiguity, since the way they covered it humanity ended up looking somewhat unworthy of their future. The doctor deciding to step back and let humanity decide was an interesting take since he usually just saves everyone no matter how silly they've been.

Not amazing but a better episode IMHO than its been given credit for.

jasonb

tritium wrote: »

When the lights went out i kinda expected one light to stay on just to create a sense of hope/ ambiguity, since the way they covered it humanity ended up looking somewhat unworthy of their future. The doctor deciding to step back and let humanity decide was an interesting take since he usually just saves everyone no matter how silly they've been.

Not amazing but a better episode IMHO than its been given credit for.

And if you think about it, humanity got to travel to the stars and 'endure' only because a couple of humans decided to ignore the wishes of everyone else on the planet. That paints humanity badly in two ways; firstly because everyone on earth basically wanted to kill what they didn't understand, and then because a couple of humans, who'd asked everyone on Earth for their vote and said they'd abide by it, then decided to ignore it!

Definitely some interesting ideas/thinking and change of relationships in the episode, but unfortunately just not done very well in my opinion...

J.

smacl

Watched it with the kids, and none of us enjoyed it, or are feeling the love for Capaldi and this series. All this not getting being able to figure out peoples age or whether or not they're attractive is fine for Strax, but not a good fit for the doctor. To be fair, the problem is as much with the writing than the acting, but between this episode and the Robin Hood one, the series is rapidly losing appeal. Interesting that the critical reception listed by wikipedia is anything but critical, as to me it seemed to lack any substance.

tommy2bad

smacl wrote: »

Watched it with the kids, and none of us enjoyed it, or are feeling the love for Capaldi and this series. All this not getting being able to figure out peoples age or whether or not they're attractive is fine for Strax, but not a good fit for the doctor. To be fair, the problem is as much with the writing than the acting, but between this episode and the Robin Hood one, the series is rapidly losing appeal. Interesting that the critical reception listed by wikipedia is anything but critical, as to me it seemed to lack any substance.

And I on the other hand am enjoying this series. Definitely loving Capaldi's performances. I do see how this series could alienate the fans of 10 and 11, it's much darker and less doctorish than what we are used to. It dose have to be said though that nu-who wasn't what old-who fans expected either. I think this is going in a new direction and will need a whole series to develop. If not longer, the thing is will an audience stick with it long enough? If they don't find the grove soon, I fear they wont.

Sonics2k

So I went back and watched it again and I think I can do a bit of a better breakdown on my feelings toward the episode.


1) The Doctor, to me, left because he wanted to leave Clara and the others to make the decision, because he himself has made too may for the Earth in the past, and has been called out on it. This was a bit more apparent with Eleven. However, Clara didn't take too well to the idea and treatment and understandably got really angry.

2) I really really do not like Mr. Pink. Yes I know I've said it before, but I think it's his smug bloody face that annoys me the most. He's a nobody who somehow completely understands how the Doctor thinks and acts, despite only meeting him the one time. He has no charisma and this forced love between Clara and him is just annoying. He's a complete "Mr-Know-It-All" despite having done nothing to prove why we should agree with this.

3) The not so subtle commentary on the Abortion debate was just pathetic. Yes I know Doctor Who has always made various attempts at social commentary, but they are usually well done and not so glaringly obvious.

4) So they make a choice, but it doesn't matter because the Doctor will save the day anyway. I have literally got no problem at all with this. It's what we expect with the show. Except he didn't do a thing. Again, I can deal with that.
But that bloody thing hatching was just bad. Who the hell read that script and thought it was a good idea. The egg hatches, turns into a huge monster type thing, which we never properly see and isn't seen from again. But then it somehow managed to lay an egg the exact same size as the moon. What a cop out that was!

5) Capaldi. The man himself. A huge Doctor Who fan of many many years. He's growing on me as the Doctor. Capaldi is making a new style of Doctor and I'm kind of okay with that. I just can't help but think that maybe someone else should have been cast.

6) The writing. This is the core of all the problems with this season. My big fear is that Moffat has gotten too big for his boots and is now more obsessed with the arc of story and all the massive plot twists, rather than the individual episodes.

As a comparison, under RTD we had epsides like "42", a perfectly good standalone episode that told a great story in it's own right, but also loosely connected into the main series arc plot too. Meanwhile episodes like "The Robots of Sherwood" and "Kill the Moon" were weak episodes which were clearly made to only try and show the growing rift between the Doctor and Clara.

I love this show, I have done since seeing Peter Davidson on the telly in the late 80's. This season though, it's been the weakest one by a long way, and it makes me a tad sad.

WomanSkirtFan8

tommy2bad wrote: »

And I on the other hand am enjoying this series. Definitely loving Capaldi's performances. I d o see how this series could alienate the fans of 10 and 11, it's much darker and less doctorishan what we are used to. It doy se have to be said though that nu-who wasn't what old-who fans expected either. I think this is going in a new direction and will need a whole series to develop. If not longer, the thing is will an audience stick with it long enough? If they don't find the grove soon, I fear they wont.

Well I certainly will! I'm loving Capaldi's performance as the doctor. He's brilliant in the role. As for the series, It has been fairly patchy so far. Deep Breath was a good introduction for Capaldi, Listen, is by far, the best episode so far, "Robots Of Sherwood" was great fun! I've got a feeling that maybe Moffat is saving the best for the series finale and possibly,the christmas special too, so I can't wait!

By the way, did anyone catch the second doctor's catchphrase; "When I tell you to run,run!" in the episode by any chance?

WomanSkirtFan8

smacl wrote: »

Watched it with the kids, and none of us enjoyed it, or are feeling the love for Capaldi and this series. All this not getting being able to figure out peoples age or whether or not they're attractive is fine for Strax, but not a good fit for the doctor. To be fair, the problem is as much with the writing than the acting, but between this episode and the Robin Hood one, the series is rapidly losing appeal. Interesting that the critical reception listed by wikipedia is anything but critical, as to me it seemed to lack any substance.

well then maybe doctor who isn't the show for you then. Capaldi was never going to be the same as either Tennant or Smith. Change and Regeneration is much as critical part of the show as the Doctor and the TARDIS.

You have to try and remember that the doctor is an alien. After Smith left the show, they couldn't have gone any younger with the doctor as it just wouldn't have been believable. So the only solution was to go slightly older.

Un Croissant

On an unrelated note, the first episode is on sale in Hmv for 15 quid excessive I would have thought.

Mr.Saturn

I can kinda understand anyone who'd be left slightly cold by 12, but as a Colin Baker advocate/apologist, I'm digging a curmudgeon Doctor done a-proper. Given the line 'I could maybe regenerate forever and ever' (I'm probably paraphrasing) from 'Kill the Moon', I'm figuring the arc of this season is The Doctor coming to terms with the possibility of actual immortality; he'll become a real Doctor in the finale, but at a cost, no doubt.

Bannasidhe

Very disappointed in the series so far.

Seems to have turned into The Clara Show. As this latest episode started I commented to OH 'oh, I wonder how Clara is going to save the day this time' and sure enough...

Predictable, pathetic forced attempts at humour and generally, imo, lost it's way.

Moffet needs to go.

Frank Lee Midere

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Very disappointed in the series so far.

Seems to have turned into The Clara Show. As this latest episode started I commented to OH 'oh, I wonder how Clara is going to save the day this time' and sure enough...

Predictable, pathetic forced attempts at humour and generally, imo, lost it's way.

Moffet needs to go.

Who would replace him?

He writes excellent individual episodes. And give the arc a chance. It might turn out good.

Bannasidhe

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Who would replace him?

He writes excellent individual episodes. And give the arc a chance. It might turn out good.

The Arc is overarching.

Last week I told OH she could continue to watch the X-Factor (and words cannot describe my utter hatred of that particular off key emote fest) as I could watch Dr Who later. I have never, ever, ever done this before.