**Spoilers** Series 8, Episode 7 - "Kill The Moon"

Tzar Chasm

Ah here, the rubber spiders were used to great effect in this episode.

Just enough screen presence to make them effective, and a nice little bit of post production trickery

Das Kitty

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Ah here, the rubber spiders were used to great effect in this episode.

Just enough screen presence to make them effective, and a nice little bit of post production trickery

They looked good. But normally even the suggestion of a spider has me scratching and these didn't. I didn't find them remotely creepy.

Wibbs

Though I would say the special effects stuff given it was probably the same Welsh quarry Tom Baker bounced about in didn't look too far from the actual moon. That bit did impress me anyway.

Angron

Das Kitty wrote: »

They looked good. But normally even the suggestion of a spider has me scratching and these didn't. I didn't find them remotely creepy.

Yeah, I found them a bit silly to be honest.

Das Kitty

Wibbs wrote: »

Though I would say the special effects stuff given it was probably the same Welsh quarry Tom Baker bounced about in didn't look too far from the actual moon. That bit did impress me anyway.

Yeah, I was the same. They used very moonish colouring.

tommy2bad

Wibbs wrote: »

Though I would say the special effects stuff given it was probably the same Welsh quarry Tom Baker bounced about in didn't look too far from the actual moon. That bit did impress me anyway.

I think it was Lanzarote playing the part of the moon, but tbh they could have just as easily and far more cheaply used the regularly cast Welsh quarry.

pixelburp

tommy2bad wrote: »

I think it was Lanzarote playing the part of the moon, but tbh they could have just as easily and far more cheaply used the regularly cast Welsh quarry.

There was a rumour of a return to Lanzarote during filming, leading to overzealous fans speculating that an episode might be a sequel to the last Who story filmed there, 'Planet of Fire'. Given how cash-strapped the show has become, I'd be surprised if this story was the only one filmed in that location, I suspect a block of filming was scheduled there, including a couple of episodes' locations. If not, it's a bit wasteful of an already slim budget.

I would agree with the others though that the outdoor Moon sequences looked great, with nice use of colour correction to sell the notion of a lunar landscape.

Rubber_Soul

tommy2bad wrote: »

I think it was Lanzarote playing the part of the moon, but tbh they could have just as easily and far more cheaply used the regularly cast Welsh quarry.

They spoke about this on Extra, the quarry was where they initially thought to film but given the lack of water on the Moon and the abundance of it falling from the sky in Wales they felt it better to shoot somewhere a little less wet.

tritium

I seem to be in a minority in that I quite enjoyed it! Yes there were lits of plot holes but tbh that's every who episode. The CGI at the end was a bit naff but what they wanted to show was always likely to go that way. Lots of interesting issues around ethics put into a nice packaged up sci fi story, which I thought worked fairly well. When the lights went out i kinda expected one light to stay on just to create a sense of hope/ ambiguity, since the way they covered it humanity ended up looking somewhat unworthy of their future. The doctor deciding to step back and let humanity decide was an interesting take since he usually just saves everyone no matter how silly they've been.

Not amazing but a better episode IMHO than its been given credit for.

jasonb

tritium wrote: »

When the lights went out i kinda expected one light to stay on just to create a sense of hope/ ambiguity, since the way they covered it humanity ended up looking somewhat unworthy of their future. The doctor deciding to step back and let humanity decide was an interesting take since he usually just saves everyone no matter how silly they've been.

Not amazing but a better episode IMHO than its been given credit for.

And if you think about it, humanity got to travel to the stars and 'endure' only because a couple of humans decided to ignore the wishes of everyone else on the planet. That paints humanity badly in two ways; firstly because everyone on earth basically wanted to kill what they didn't understand, and then because a couple of humans, who'd asked everyone on Earth for their vote and said they'd abide by it, then decided to ignore it!

Definitely some interesting ideas/thinking and change of relationships in the episode, but unfortunately just not done very well in my opinion...

J.

smacl

Watched it with the kids, and none of us enjoyed it, or are feeling the love for Capaldi and this series. All this not getting being able to figure out peoples age or whether or not they're attractive is fine for Strax, but not a good fit for the doctor. To be fair, the problem is as much with the writing than the acting, but between this episode and the Robin Hood one, the series is rapidly losing appeal. Interesting that the critical reception listed by wikipedia is anything but critical, as to me it seemed to lack any substance.

tommy2bad

smacl wrote: »

Watched it with the kids, and none of us enjoyed it, or are feeling the love for Capaldi and this series. All this not getting being able to figure out peoples age or whether or not they're attractive is fine for Strax, but not a good fit for the doctor. To be fair, the problem is as much with the writing than the acting, but between this episode and the Robin Hood one, the series is rapidly losing appeal. Interesting that the critical reception listed by wikipedia is anything but critical, as to me it seemed to lack any substance.

And I on the other hand am enjoying this series. Definitely loving Capaldi's performances. I do see how this series could alienate the fans of 10 and 11, it's much darker and less doctorish than what we are used to. It dose have to be said though that nu-who wasn't what old-who fans expected either. I think this is going in a new direction and will need a whole series to develop. If not longer, the thing is will an audience stick with it long enough? If they don't find the grove soon, I fear they wont.

Sonics2k

So I went back and watched it again and I think I can do a bit of a better breakdown on my feelings toward the episode.


1) The Doctor, to me, left because he wanted to leave Clara and the others to make the decision, because he himself has made too may for the Earth in the past, and has been called out on it. This was a bit more apparent with Eleven. However, Clara didn't take too well to the idea and treatment and understandably got really angry.

2) I really really do not like Mr. Pink. Yes I know I've said it before, but I think it's his smug bloody face that annoys me the most. He's a nobody who somehow completely understands how the Doctor thinks and acts, despite only meeting him the one time. He has no charisma and this forced love between Clara and him is just annoying. He's a complete "Mr-Know-It-All" despite having done nothing to prove why we should agree with this.

3) The not so subtle commentary on the Abortion debate was just pathetic. Yes I know Doctor Who has always made various attempts at social commentary, but they are usually well done and not so glaringly obvious.

4) So they make a choice, but it doesn't matter because the Doctor will save the day anyway. I have literally got no problem at all with this. It's what we expect with the show. Except he didn't do a thing. Again, I can deal with that.
But that bloody thing hatching was just bad. Who the hell read that script and thought it was a good idea. The egg hatches, turns into a huge monster type thing, which we never properly see and isn't seen from again. But then it somehow managed to lay an egg the exact same size as the moon. What a cop out that was!

5) Capaldi. The man himself. A huge Doctor Who fan of many many years. He's growing on me as the Doctor. Capaldi is making a new style of Doctor and I'm kind of okay with that. I just can't help but think that maybe someone else should have been cast.

6) The writing. This is the core of all the problems with this season. My big fear is that Moffat has gotten too big for his boots and is now more obsessed with the arc of story and all the massive plot twists, rather than the individual episodes.

As a comparison, under RTD we had epsides like "42", a perfectly good standalone episode that told a great story in it's own right, but also loosely connected into the main series arc plot too. Meanwhile episodes like "The Robots of Sherwood" and "Kill the Moon" were weak episodes which were clearly made to only try and show the growing rift between the Doctor and Clara.

I love this show, I have done since seeing Peter Davidson on the telly in the late 80's. This season though, it's been the weakest one by a long way, and it makes me a tad sad.

WomanSkirtFan8

tommy2bad wrote: »

And I on the other hand am enjoying this series. Definitely loving Capaldi's performances. I d o see how this series could alienate the fans of 10 and 11, it's much darker and less doctorishan what we are used to. It doy se have to be said though that nu-who wasn't what old-who fans expected either. I think this is going in a new direction and will need a whole series to develop. If not longer, the thing is will an audience stick with it long enough? If they don't find the grove soon, I fear they wont.

Well I certainly will! I'm loving Capaldi's performance as the doctor. He's brilliant in the role. As for the series, It has been fairly patchy so far. Deep Breath was a good introduction for Capaldi, Listen, is by far, the best episode so far, "Robots Of Sherwood" was great fun! I've got a feeling that maybe Moffat is saving the best for the series finale and possibly,the christmas special too, so I can't wait!

By the way, did anyone catch the second doctor's catchphrase; "When I tell you to run,run!" in the episode by any chance?

WomanSkirtFan8

smacl wrote: »

Watched it with the kids, and none of us enjoyed it, or are feeling the love for Capaldi and this series. All this not getting being able to figure out peoples age or whether or not they're attractive is fine for Strax, but not a good fit for the doctor. To be fair, the problem is as much with the writing than the acting, but between this episode and the Robin Hood one, the series is rapidly losing appeal. Interesting that the critical reception listed by wikipedia is anything but critical, as to me it seemed to lack any substance.

well then maybe doctor who isn't the show for you then. Capaldi was never going to be the same as either Tennant or Smith. Change and Regeneration is much as critical part of the show as the Doctor and the TARDIS.

You have to try and remember that the doctor is an alien. After Smith left the show, they couldn't have gone any younger with the doctor as it just wouldn't have been believable. So the only solution was to go slightly older.

Un Croissant

On an unrelated note, the first episode is on sale in Hmv for 15 quid excessive I would have thought.

Mr.Saturn

I can kinda understand anyone who'd be left slightly cold by 12, but as a Colin Baker advocate/apologist, I'm digging a curmudgeon Doctor done a-proper. Given the line 'I could maybe regenerate forever and ever' (I'm probably paraphrasing) from 'Kill the Moon', I'm figuring the arc of this season is The Doctor coming to terms with the possibility of actual immortality; he'll become a real Doctor in the finale, but at a cost, no doubt.

Bannasidhe

Very disappointed in the series so far.

Seems to have turned into The Clara Show. As this latest episode started I commented to OH 'oh, I wonder how Clara is going to save the day this time' and sure enough...

Predictable, pathetic forced attempts at humour and generally, imo, lost it's way.

Moffet needs to go.

Frank Lee Midere

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Very disappointed in the series so far.

Seems to have turned into The Clara Show. As this latest episode started I commented to OH 'oh, I wonder how Clara is going to save the day this time' and sure enough...

Predictable, pathetic forced attempts at humour and generally, imo, lost it's way.

Moffet needs to go.

Who would replace him?

He writes excellent individual episodes. And give the arc a chance. It might turn out good.

Bannasidhe

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Who would replace him?

He writes excellent individual episodes. And give the arc a chance. It might turn out good.

The Arc is overarching.

Last week I told OH she could continue to watch the X-Factor (and words cannot describe my utter hatred of that particular off key emote fest) as I could watch Dr Who later. I have never, ever, ever done this before.

BlitzKrieg

Frankly if they cut the monster of the week plot and started with a we're blowing up the moon because it's breaking up and a risk to earth they might have had time to pace it out without making it so hammy and forced with sudden shifts in character direction.

The doctor stepping back wouldn't seem so odd if it was paced away from the decision and the decision wouldn't be so preachy if the information and process wasn't squeezed into 5 minutes

tommy2bad

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Frankly if they cut the monster of the week plot and started with a we're blowing up the moon because it's breaking up and a risk to earth they might have had time to pace it out without making it so hammy and forced with sudden shifts in character direction.

The doctor stepping back wouldn't seem so odd if it was paced away from the decision and the decision wouldn't be so preachy if the information and process wasn't squeezed into 5 minutes

This. The scope of a 50 minute show is being stretched by the themes being dealt with. Their trying to put a quart in a pint pot.

smacl

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

well then maybe doctor who isn't the show for you then. Capaldi was never going to be the same as either Tennant or Smith. Change and Regeneration is much as critical part of the show as the Doctor and the TARDIS.

You have to try and remember that the doctor is an alien. After Smith left the show, they couldn't have gone any younger with the doctor as it just wouldn't have been believable. So the only solution was to go slightly older.

Been with the Doctor since the Jon Pertwee days, who strangely enough is probably the closest match for me to Capaldi. I just don't think Moffat's current writing is anyway comparable to what we've seen in the recent past, both from himself (e.g. Blink) and the likes of Neil Gaiman (The Doctor's Wife).
I reckon given quality material, Capaldi could deliver as good as Smith or any other Doctor, but that certainly wasn't the case in Kill The Moon or the Robots of Sherwood. I don't think we've seen an episode yet in this series that would rank as outstanding for me, but given that Moffat has done it before, I'm hoping for a return to form.

By comparison to Blink, or The Empty Child, I wouldn't rate this series as particularly dark.

WomanSkirtFan8

smacl wrote: »

Been with the Doctor since the Jon Pertwee days, who strangely enough is probably the closest match for me to Capaldi. I just don't think Moffat's current writing is anyway comparable to what we've seen in the recent past, both from himself (e.g. Blink) and the likes of Neil Gaiman (The Doctor's Wife).
I reckon given quality material, Capaldi could deliver as good as Smith or any other Doctor, but that certainly wasn't the case in Kill The Moon or the Robots of Sherwood. I don't think we've seen an episode yet in this series that would rank as outstanding for me, but given that Moffat has done it before, I'm hoping for a return to form.

By comparison to Blink, or The Empty Child, I wouldn't rate this series as particularly dark.

heres hoping! Maybe Moffat is saving the best until the last!

Frank Lee Midere

smacl wrote: »

Been with the Doctor since the Jon Pertwee days, who strangely enough is probably the closest match for me to Capaldi. I just don't think Moffat's current writing is anyway comparable to what we've seen in the recent past, both from himself (e.g. Blink) and the likes of Neil Gaiman (The Doctor's Wife).
I reckon given quality material, Capaldi could deliver as good as Smith or any other Doctor, but that certainly wasn't the case in Kill The Moon or the Robots of Sherwood. I don't think we've seen an episode yet in this series that would rank as outstanding for me, but given that Moffat has done it before, I'm hoping for a return to form.

By comparison to Blink, or The Empty Child, I wouldn't rate this series as particularly dark.

Robots was an enjoyable romp. One for the kids.

WomanSkirtFan8

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Robots was an enjoyable romp. One for the kids.

Absolutely I agree! as I already said,the best for me, so far, was "Listen".

smacl

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Robots was an enjoyable romp. One for the kids.

While my younger girl (11) enjoyed it, the older one (14) was distinctly unimpressed. Much as I enjoy the odd historical romp, it was a far cry from The Girl in the Fireplace. Be interesting to see how the Mummy on the orient express turns out.

Witchie

I quite enjoyed it but was a wee bit miffed with the support of terrorism in Northern Ireland with the crates with UDF on them!