apealing an infraction

irishgrover

Hi,
I received a warning and then later an infraction (for the same post(s)) on the following tread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057298644

Could I ask that if be reviewed for appeal. I asked the Mod be (s)he is not at all in agreement.

My position is as follows....

I made my initial post giving my "2cents opinion" in a genuine and almost apologetic way....

The tread became very polarised very quickly. In my opinion (any many others) this was due to the extremely antagonistic and dismissive attitude of a number of teachers on the tread in relation to any opinion that came from a non teacher. This was commented on, by a number of posters..

I followed up with this comment
"In fairness, from a non teachers POV there is a load of arrogance in this tread. It would appear that you are either a teacher or a know it all opinioned gob****e whon knows nothing about teaching and is probably a lazy parent with poor standards and lazy children....
Its all a bit sad to be honest.....

I got the following response

Get over yourself. It is a public forum ffs!"

I'm not sure what my exact response was (it was deleted), but it was civil and did not attack the poster, but did comment on the "prickish" tone of the post

Other examples of what were posted by teachers include...

You know what Peter,I think you were very brave and a tad naive posting that situation on here. While you might have got a few constructive responses by those who do the real job in the real world,you also drew a fair share of know it alls who know nothing on you as well...

Quite frankly I don't give a damn what you think...









You're not a teacher so you know absolutely nothing about the job....

So the arrogant ones are people like you insisting on giving your two cents worth...

I'm not going to bother disguising my disdain for all the non teachers climbing on the band wagon ....

Wow!! Actually you don't have the remotest clue how I teach but you and so many others here sure love to pass judgement when you get a dose of the truth...

And I certainly wouldn't come looking for one of the anti teacher muppets on here...

Clearly your levels of comprehension aren't the greatest ...

I was looking to hear the views of other teachers - not ignorants


Basically, again in my humble opinion, this tread was a car crash from start to finish. There were a load of teachers who took an entrenched position, were utterly dismissive of non teachers, which then pissed everyone off and polarised the tread.

I don't understand the moderation? If you were a teacher you could be an rude, condescending, snide and dismissive. If you held any opinion that was slightly questioning of the approach of the OP (and not a teacher) then the mod was deleting your post and branding you as an uncivil troll.

I've taken this up with the Mod, by there are uninterested. Although the fact that (s)he became aware that my appeal was coming appears to have encouraged a bit of quick cleaning up of some of the more tasteless posts from some of the posters...

thanks for taking time to read and rule on this...

irishgrover

hi Sorry, I was wrong I can see my post deleted post, as it was included in the PM from the MOD...

I've included the PM's below , if this helps, please excuse of formatting tags are a bit all over the place
thanks

FIRST PM from MOD - 29-09-2014, 23:50 (I receive a warning - I'm not told why)

gaeilgebeo wrote:

Please read the Teaching+Lecturing charter before posting in the forum again.
Your posts have been removed as they are in clear breach of said charter.
Post that are not in line with the charter will lead to infractions .
Please keep things civil.

Regards,
Gaeilgebeo.

second PM FROM MOD - 30-09-2014, 22:34 - He's had a change of mind and the warning has gone to an infraction

gaeilgebeo wrote:

Dear irishgrover,

You have been infracted for a breach of the forum charter.

Every forum on Boards.ie has a charter which lists any specific rules that forum may have and it is really important that you read this as it'll help you familiarise yourself with how that forum works. You should also understand that every forum is different and that charters are how you learn the differences.

Please see the Boards.ie FAQ for more details.

If you wish to appeal this infraction you can see details on how to do so here.

gaeilgebeo

Moderator Note

Infraction given for complete breach of forum charter

Your post:

irishgrover wrote: »

dubrov wrote: »

Get over yourself. It is a public forum ffs!

There is no need to take such a prickish tone. I know where I am. I also know I'm entitled to my opinion, regardless or your respect or lack thereof...

1st RESPONSE FROM ME (phones auto correct was in full swing with Umbridge / Uxbridge)

irishgrover wrote:

Hi,
Can you please explain why a warning turned into an infraction for the same post? Also in terns of the post itself what did you take Uxbridge with? I commented on the post, not the poster?
Thanks in advance

3rd PM From Mod Yesterday, 09:34 - Another change of mind, now it's primarily because of a different earlier post!

Hi,
Your infraction was based mainly on the following post :
It would appear that you are either a teacher or a know it all opinioned gob****e whon knows nothing about teaching and is probably a lazy parent with poor standards and lazy children....
Its all a bit sad to be honest.....

The post is clearly a breach of the charter. It goes against several of the rules, ie,

# keep things civil
# do not get personal.

Telling posters that their tone is "prickish", is also considered flaming, which is against the charter.

The thread was locked to give mods the time to hand out infractions. Mods are perfectly entitled to do so.

2ND RESPONSE FROM ME

Hi again,
I disagree with your moderation on this and would like you to overturn the infraction. Could you please consider this and get back to me with a response
thanks
- irishgrover

FINAL RESPONSE FROM MOD

Hi,
I appreciate that you disagree. That's fine.
I stand by my decision.
If you wish to speak to a category mod (those over the forum), please do.
You are also entitled to go through the other means of disputing an infraction. By all means do.
If you reread the charter however, you'll see all of your breaches.

Regards.
You will have to go

FINAL RESPONSE FROM ME

Hi again,
fair enough and thanks for the quick response. What's with your valediction though? It's a big odd (should have read "bit odd")

Toto Wolfcastle

I'll take a look at this. It might take awhile. There's quite a bit to look at there.

Toto Wolfcastle

Didn't take as long as I thought it would in the end. I've had a read of your posts here and the thread in the T&L forum and I've come to the following conclusions:

irishgrover wrote: »

I followed up with this comment
"In fairness, from a non teachers POV there is a load of arrogance in this tread. It would appear that you are either a teacher or a know it all opinioned gob****e whon knows nothing about teaching and is probably a lazy parent with poor standards and lazy children....
Its all a bit sad to be honest.....

I got the following response

Get over yourself. It is a public forum ffs!"

I'm not sure what my exact response was (it was deleted), but it was civil and did not attack the poster, but did comment on the "prickish" tone of the post

This was your post:

There is no need to take such a prickish tone. I know where I am. I also know I'm entitled to my opinion, regardless or your respect or lack thereof...

I do not consider that to be a civil post.

irishgrover wrote: »

Other examples of what were posted by teachers include...

You know what Peter,I think you were very brave and a tad naive posting that situation on here. While you might have got a few constructive responses by those who do the real job in the real world,you also drew a fair share of know it alls who know nothing on you as well...

Quite frankly I don't give a damn what you think...









You're not a teacher so you know absolutely nothing about the job....

So the arrogant ones are people like you insisting on giving your two cents worth...

I'm not going to bother disguising my disdain for all the non teachers climbing on the band wagon ....

Wow!! Actually you don't have the remotest clue how I teach but you and so many others here sure love to pass judgement when you get a dose of the truth...

And I certainly wouldn't come looking for one of the anti teacher muppets on here...

Clearly your levels of comprehension aren't the greatest ...

I was looking to hear the views of other teachers - not ignorants

They are all irrelevant to your appeal. If you have a problem with them please report them in case the mods missed them.

irishgrover wrote: »

Basically, again in my humble opinion, this tread was a car crash from start to finish. There were a load of teachers who took an entrenched position, were utterly dismissive of non teachers, which then pissed everyone off and polarised the tread.

I don't understand the moderation? If you were a teacher you could be an rude, condescending, snide and dismissive. If you held any opinion that was slightly questioning of the approach of the OP (and not a teacher) then the mod was deleting your post and branding you as an uncivil troll.

I've taken this up with the Mod, by there are uninterested. Although the fact that (s)he became aware that my appeal was coming appears to have encouraged a bit of quick cleaning up of some of the more tasteless posts from some of the posters...

thanks for taking time to read and rule on this...

I had a look at the deleted posts. Posts by both teachers and non-teachers were deleted.

This is one of the PMs you quoted that the mod sent you explaining why you got the infraction.

Hi,
Your infraction was based mainly on the following post :
It would appear that you are either a teacher or a know it all opinioned gob****e whon knows nothing about teaching and is probably a lazy parent with poor standards and lazy children....
Its all a bit sad to be honest.....

The post is clearly a breach of the charter. It goes against several of the rules, ie,

# keep things civil
# do not get personal.

Telling posters that their tone is "prickish", is also considered flaming, which is against the charter.

The thread was locked to give mods the time to hand out infractions. Mods are perfectly entitled to do so.

It's clear that the infraction was given for your contribution to the thread up to that point, and just happened to be applied to that particular uncivil post.

Just to clarify again, these are the uncivil posts in question:

In fairness, from a non teachers POV there is a load of arrogance in this tread. It would appear that you are either a teacher or a know it all opinioned gob****e whon knows nothing about teaching and is probably a lazy parent with poor standards and lazy children....
Its all a bit sad to be honest.....

There is no need to take such a prickish tone. I know where I am. I also know I'm entitled to my opinion, regardless or your respect or lack thereof...

Both uncivil, both in breach of the forum charter. Infraction upheld.

You may request an admin review if you wish.

peckerhead

Would you mind having a quick look at mine, too? I was infracted and my post deleted by the same mod (but without warning) and I posted here, shortly after irishgrover's first post, asking where I'd gone wrong. When I'd pm'd gaeilgebeo (s)he said sure, go ahead, but now I find that my post here has been deleted, too.

Below is my original post in the thread and the reason given for the infraction. I'm not really bothered about the post being deleted, but I'm still kinda puzzled about the infraction. I don't generally misbehave on Boards.ie. As I pointed out before, the word 'dick' (which is used in the forum charter, guideline #1) was used hypothetically, not addressed to anyone. And in saying I found the attitude expressed in these quoted posts 'judgemental and opinionated' I was attacking the posts, not the posters. The OP (Peter Flynt, not acequion) has subsequently pretty much confirmed me in my original opinion of his views/comments, but that's neither here nor there. The thread is now rightly closed; I'm sure it was a PITA for the mods to clean up, so sorry for adding to the chore — I just feel I was infracted a bit harshly and I genuinely don't see how/where I breached the charter.

Moderator Note

Infraction given for complete breach of forum charter

Your post:

Originally Posted by acequion

Quite frankly I don't give a damn what you think. You're not a teacher so you know absolutely nothing about the job. Having been to school yourself or having children in school gives you zero information on the inside track.The only way to know any job is to actually do it yourself.

If (for example) a doctor spoke like this (s)he'd be rightly considered an arrogant dick. Teachers are somehow above that, though?

I've been a teacher for over 25 years and to be honest I have seldom come across such a judgemental, opinionated position as yours and the OP's (yes, he made a mistake for which his ego has paid the price, nothing more).

Lighten up or you'll be bitter, angry old men long before you take early retirement to escape from the stress.

Zaph

peckerhead wrote: »

Would you mind having a quick look at mine, too? I was infracted and my post deleted by the same mod (but without warning) and I posted here, shortly after irishgrover's first post, asking where I'd gone wrong. When I'd pm'd gaeilgebeo (s)he said sure, go ahead, but now I find that my post here has been deleted, too.

Your post has been moved to its own thread here. All appeals must have their own thread, rather than tacking one on to the end of an existing thread.

peckerhead

Ah, I see — sorry!

irishgrover

Hi BobbleHeadPanda,
thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

If you don't mind I would like this looked at by and Admin.

My rationale is as follows


POINT #1: From my point of view it seems that that teachers and admin's on the tread and BobbleHeadPanda just did not like my point of view.

It's clear that the infraction was given for your contribution to the thread up to that point, and just happened to be applied to that particular uncivil post.

In context: To paraphrase BobbleHeadPanda ... I was (through my posts) leading up to an infraction, it was just applied to a particular post, but in essence it was coming because of my previous posts...

As I only made 1 post previous post I think it is worth looking at. I can understand that BobbleHeadPanda and gaeilgebeo may not like this post, but to infer that it should form the basis of and kind of infraction or even warning is, imho, extremely poor judgement.

I'm really unsure how I could have posted this more "delicately"

Just my 2cents, and I'm not saying I'm right, it's just my opinion...
If any one of my 4 children received "punishment" home from school I which involved a meaningless repetitive time wasting activity (such as writing lines etc), I would be very predisposed to not facilitating it's completion, especially at 2nd level.
I would have no problem with a teacher instructing them to do extra or additional math work as punishment. I'd fully support a "punishment" of them writing a 2 page essay on the importance of Maths, or doing research and identifying the 3rd level courses that require maths, or calculating the difference between a C in pass maths or a C in honours maths etc etc. To me all of the above would indicate annoyance, punishment and educational legitimacy.
However being told to write lines or other repetitious nonsense, would to me set an alarm bell ringing that there was a teacher too lazy to to do anything intelligent or meaningful.
Please accept that I am not trying to, or wish to criticise you directly or indirectly. Just want to give you my opinion.
Best of luck

POINT #2 I really don't believe that my second post was uncivil

In fairness, from a non teachers POV there is a load of arrogance in this tread. It would appear that you are either a teacher or a know it all opinioned gob****e whon knows nothing about teaching and is probably a lazy parent with poor standards and lazy children....
Its all a bit sad to be honest.....

This was a genuine comment on what appeared to be an increasingly polarised tone/content in the tread. I stated that from my POV, as a non teacher, there was a very embittered and arrogant attitude towards non teachers. If I made this comment out of context, or in an abusive or uncivil tone, then fair enough. However I believe that this was an utterly accurate and fair reflection of the tone, and more importantly content of the tread.
The reason that I added some contributions from other posts (which BobbleHeadPanda believes to be immaterial), is to highlight that in the context of the tread my comment was fair and accurate. My argument is not that everyone else was doing it so what can't I.... my argument is that within the context of the tread, the content of my post was accurate, fair and reasonable, even if you don't agree with it or take issue with it

Below are some of the posts which lead me to form the opinion in my post...

you might have got a few constructive responses by those who do the real job in the real world,you also drew a fair share of know it alls who know nothing on you as well...

Quite frankly I don't give a damn what you think...

Let me guess, you're not a teacher

You're not a teacher so you know absolutely nothing about the job....

So the arrogant ones are people like you insisting on giving your two cents worth...

It's not fair to say that parents have no insight into how teaching works but 99% of the time (conservative estimate) their insight is so little as to be almost worthless,

I'm not going to bother disguising my disdain for all the non teachers climbing on the band wagon ....

Wow!! Actually you don't have the remotest clue how I teach but you and so many others here sure love to pass judgement when you get a dose of the truth...

And I certainly wouldn't come looking for one of the anti teacher muppets on here...

Clearly your levels of comprehension aren't the greatest ...

I was looking to hear the views of other teachers - not ignorants

In the context of the tread, and those comments above, I would contest that my post was not uncivil, unreasonable, flaming or inaccurate, but was a reasonable and accurate reflection on the very nature of the tread. I would contend that just because something is unpalatable from your point of view, it does not make it uncivil.
I believe it was an accurate reflection of the situation. I'm not sure how else the post could have been constructed?


POINT #3 My third post..

The above post received the following response

Get over yourself. It is a public forum ffs!"

my response...

There is no need to take such a prickish tone. I know where I am. I also know I'm entitled to my opinion, regardless or your respect or lack thereof...

I have been told by BobbleHeadPanda and gaeilgebeo that this post was either uncivil, trolling or both. I contest that it is neither. I'm assuming that their issue is with the word "prickish". There is nothing uncivil about that word. prick·ish adjective \ˈprikish, kēsh\ Full Definition of PRICKISH - "easily irritated"

If I remove the term "prickish" with the definition from the Merrian Webster dictionary it reads like this..

There is no need to take such an easily irritated tone. I know where I am. I also know I'm entitled to my opinion, regardless or your respect or lack thereof...

Again, I genuinely do not believe that post to be uncivil or flaming

If there are taking offence to the word "prickish" is would be a bit like banning me for being racist for using the term "niggardly".

I would hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding in an education forum.

Appreciate that there is a lot of information here, and appreciate that all mods do a difficult job, and it's all voluntary, for which I thank them. However in addition please appreciate that from my point of view I do try hard to obey the letter and spirit of the rules and in this case I believe that I have upheld those standards.
thanks all

Zaph

irishgrover wrote: »

POINT #1: From my point of view it seems that that teachers and admin's on the tread and BobbleHeadPanda just did not like my point of view.

This is complete and utter nonsense. Your infraction was given because you were confrontational and abusive on the thread, simple as that. Infraction upheld.