Parents reporting teachers to the principal - Have you experienced it?

2011abc

masonchat wrote: »

would 3 kids really go to the bother to make up a story in order to get out of lines and would they be that miffed about getting lines if they had failed to do homework ?

Let me guess,youre not a teacher?

Peter Flynt

Armelodie wrote: »

I think the nub of the issue is that some of the students didn't even bother to try the question so presented absolutely nothing in class.

I'm not so sure about punishing the whole class for it though!!

In saying that , if I went home whinging about being given a pointless punishment exercise for something I neglected to do, then I'd be given short shrift told to cop myself on and do the punishment. Think of it as a life lesson and move on.. are my parents going to write a note for me if my future boss gives me an unfair bollocking at work? Life ain't fair..

The WHOLE class was not punished.

Those who did not even attempt their homework were asked to carry out punishment work.

One student returned the next day with this:

"My Ma said she's not signing your note as you signed it in the conduct area of the journal and and she doesn't believe it warrants that"

GarIT

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Shouting out without permission "I don't get that" . . . That's not asking a question.

That's serious indiscipline.

They know the procedure now - Hands up. Question is asked and everyone listens to the answer. Resume work.

You are right there. I didn't realise it was out of turn.

Peter Flynt

masonchat wrote: »

I am beginning to get a very dim view of some teachers attitudes from some of the replies , there is a very arrogant condescending tone .

No arrogance. No condescension.

The teacher has a job to do.

This group would gladly sit around doing nothing if allowed to . . . and they'd be considered a great teacher by most in the class.

milosh

If you ignore the situation that Peter outlined and deal with the main point i.e. increased parental contact with Principals, then there is no doubt that there is. Parents feel they have the right to contact management about the smallest of problems and as stakeholders in their children's education and their primary educators, they do.

However some parents are just far too protective of their children and it is a great source of amusement to us some of the phone calls the school receives.

Punishment is part of learning and not doing homework is without doubt a discipline issue. I would not have handled Peter's situation the way he did but that is fairly irrelevant. You cannot leave non-presented homework go.

The parents should have taken the interest in their children's homework the previous evening. If their child genuinely could not make an effort at the work they should have written a note to the teacher explaining this. Most teachers (and I am sure Peter is no different) appreciate this kind of feedback from parents.

masonchat

I was no scholar, more than capable when i wanted to be, its a shame i never got the importance of the results or how short school life is compared to the rest of your life , a common dilemma id imagine.

It is amazing though how the same class of students can react in polar opposites for 2 different teachers.

I think i only did the homework for the teachers that i knew would check it.

From a students pov i would think , a warning for causing disruption followed by detention for further incidents would deter me the best.

On the homework front would you be better off putting the onus on the students then the parents, no homework done today , bring it in tomorrow with tonights homework , if not note home , if still no homework request a meeting with the parents ?

If you pizz off the parents instead of the students they might start to ensure the work is done, bringing horses to water is the easy bit getting them to drink isnt so easy though, some kids just wont give a squiddley no matter what :- )

Terri26

Punishment homework is not meant to benefit the student. It's a punishment. Why give the teacher more work to check/correct when their time was already wasted dealing with the lack of homework in the first place?
But well done to th parents who tried/try to undermine the teacher's authority - like our job isn't difficult enough.

byhookorbycrook

masonchat wrote: »

I was no scholar, more that capable when i wanted to be, its a shame i never got the importance of the results or how short school life is compared to the rest of your life , a common dilemma id imagine.

It is amazing though how the same class of students can react in polar opposites for 2 different teachers.

I think i only did the homework for the teachers that i knew would check it.

From a students pov i would think , a warning for causing disruption followed by detention for further incidents would deter me the best.

On the homework front would you be better off putting the onus on the students then the parents, no homework done today , bring it in tomorrow with tonights homework , if not note home , if still no homework request a meeting with the parents ?

If you pizz of the parents instead of the students they might start to ensure the work is done, bringing horses to water is the easy bit getting them to drink isnt so easy though, some kids just wont give a squiddley no matter what :- )

Unfortunately there are some parents who a)won't enforce the homework and b) won't attend any meeting.

What then?

Peter Flynt

Terri26 wrote: »

Punishment homework is not meant to benefit the student. It's a punishment. Why give the teacher more work to check/correct when their time was already wasted dealing with the lack of homework in the first place?
But well done to th parents who tried/try to undermine the teacher's authority - like our job isn't difficult enough.

Do these kids now have a "get out of homework free" card?

To be played to the parents the next time I inspect their copies.

Because that's what some of the parents have given them.

masonchat

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Unfortunately there are some parents who a)won't enforce the homework and b) won't attend any meeting.

What then?

If they wont do homework and parents dont give a hoot as is often the case probably, then they wont do punishment work either, at that stage in my day expulsion for a set time would have been expected , i mean you cant shoot them.

I think what some of us x hell raisers/saints are saying is , if you are going to give written punishment , isnt it better for it to be constructive punishment, it is still extra work its not like they will enjoy it just because it is constructive

Czarcasm

Peter it sounds to me like the core issue among your students with regard to math isn't indiscipline, but a lack of motivation, caused by a lack of respect for you as their teacher.

I think first off anyway that it's commendable that you recognise your students potential ability, but IMO, respectfully, you're putting the horse before the cart in terms of motivation and discipline. You're focussed perhaps too much on the discipline aspect, and not enough on the motivation. Motivating your students is the key to having them respect you, and then discipline will naturally follow from that.

It's early enough in the year yet for you to turn this around. Without knowing the students involved or their parents, I can only surmise that you're going to have to adopt a different disciplinary strategy, and I would discuss this with the Principal and the other teachers in the school as to how you might devise a strategy to motivate the students moreso than punish them.

You're unlikely to receive parental support, which is unfortunate, but if you can motivate the students and work with them, get them interested in learning and wanting to learn, if you can find a way to relate to the students the importance of applying themselves now, and emphasise that it is in their own best interests to do so, perhaps you won't face the wrath of parents who value their child's 'social development' above their academic achievements (I'm being kind, I'm sure you understand what I mean).

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byhookorbycrook

masonchat wrote: »

If they wont do homework and parents dont give a hoot as is often the case probably, then they wont do punishment work either, at that stage in my day expulsion for a set time would have been expected , i mean you cant shoot them.

I think what some of us x hell raisers/saints are saying is , if you are going to give written punishment , isnt it better for it to be constructive punishment, it is still extra work its not like they will enjoy it just because it is constructive

Almost impossible to expel a child. No matter what they do/don't do.

barney 20v

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Incidentally parents phoning principals is a very common occurrence.

Most teachers do not hear of these conversations as they are invariably not reported to them.

But some parents now feel they have some sort of ownership of what goes on in the classroom.

Do they not though?
You are employed to educate their children , so they have a vested interest in the performance and manner of the teacher in question .
My view is that the children are in fact the only important consideration in this situation
The view that parents should NOT take ownership of what goes on/ goes wrong in the classroom is ridiculous in my humble opinion.....

RealJohn

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Almost impossible to expel a child. No matter what they do/don't do.

I think they mean expulsion from the class for a few days, not permanent expulsion from the school.

byhookorbycrook

RealJohn wrote: »

I think they mean expulsion from the class for a few days, not permanent expulsion from the school.

Some students would see it as a badge of honour/ nice few days off.

endakenny

RealJohn wrote: »

I think they mean expulsion from the class for a few days, not permanent expulsion from the school.

If it's not permanent then it's suspension, not expulsion.

endakenny

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Some students would see it as a badge of honour/ nice few days off.

Then it's up to their parents to make them see the error of their ways.

RealJohn

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Some students would see it as a badge of honour/ nice few days off.

They would but at least the other students see that disruptive behaviour will result in them being deprived of their audience and those who aren't disruptive get a quieter few days.

Regardless, all I was doing was trying to clarify something that seemed to have been misinterpreted.

RealJohn

endakenny wrote: »

If it's not permanent then it's suspension, not expulsion.

You can be temporarily expelled from a class. Anyway, I think people are getting bogged down in semantics here.

Art2

As a teacher I sympathise with your lot. The same parents will change their tune when their son/daughter does well. Keep up the effort. As a parent too, I welcome any teacher who push my sons to work hard especially in second year.

RealJohn

barney 20v wrote: »

Do they not though?
You are employed to educate their children , so they have a vested interest in the performance and manner of the teacher in question .
My view is that the children are in fact the only important consideration in this situation
The view that parents should NOT take ownership of what goes on/ goes wrong in the classroom is ridiculous in my humble opinion.....

I agree with this to a point. Parents who take an active interest in what's going on are definitely preferable to parents who think that their only responsibility to their children's education is that they're on school grounds often enough to keep the authorities from looking for explanations of the child's whereabouts.

That being said, parents also need to allow the teachers to teach their classes as they see fit, including trusting teachers to discipline students appropriately, and trust that they know what they're doing. Obviously parents should get involved if they think that their child has been severely mistreated but I don't think punishment work that they feel is a waste of time falls into that category, at least if it's not a very regular occurance.

endakenny

RealJohn wrote: »

You can be temporarily expelled from a class. Anyway, I think people are getting bogged down in semantics here.

Then it's temporary exclusion. "Temporary expulsion" is an oxymoron.

Peter Flynt

barney 20v wrote: »

Do they not though?
You are employed to educate their children , so they have a vested interest in the performance and manner of the teacher in question .
My view is that the children are in fact the only important consideration in this situation
The view that parents should NOT take ownership of what goes on/ goes wrong in the classroom is ridiculous in my humble opinion.....

Vested interest in performance? Yes

That's where it ends. . . The idea that the parent determines anything else in the class is ridiculous.

Peter Flynt

Incidentally dramatic changes have now occurred over the past week in particular.

I haven't changed - They've changed.

Today work was done quietly, hands were up in the air to ask questions and some students couldn't contain their excitement at realising that they were understanding a level of Maths that couldn't have been achieved previously. For that they can be forgiven of course

I rearranged the class and kept students who have a bad influence on each other far apart and this has contributed greatly.

Still there are battles ahead. They don't like homework and I'll be demanding greater efforts at home as soon as they get settled.

For that teachers need the support of parents - and not childish phone calls to the principal and letters to me.

barney 20v

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Vested interest in performance? Yes

That's where it ends. . . The idea that the parent determines anything else in the class is ridiculous.

So you don't agree that parents should have a say in the manner good or bad of teachers in the classroom?

Are ( some) teachers to be left to their own devices ,poor practices and people skills and not questioned by parents if issues arise ?
Seems very old school Ireland way of thinking to me!

queensinead

masonchat wrote: »

If they wont do homework and parents dont give a hoot as is often the case probably, then they wont do punishment work either, at that stage in my day expulsion for a set time would have been expected , i mean you cant shoot them.

I think what some of us x hell raisers/saints are saying is , if you are going to give written punishment , isnt it better for it to be constructive punishment, it is still extra work its not like they will enjoy it just because it is constructive

Expulsion, or even suspension, would never be imposed or accepted just because a student is not submitting homework. It is rarely imposed for far more serious offences, and even then it is usually contested by parents.

Every school has a written homework policy and a policy on what to do if pupils do not attempt homework

This should be strictly adhered to. It may actually involve writing out stuff, or detention, whatever is written in the policy and signed off on by the parents. But whatever it is, that is what should have been imposed

Parents have a right to complain to the Principal if they want

Parents always defending their kids and backing them up against teachers, is increasingly common in schools

Everyone wants a disciplined school, but don't dare discipline my Johnny

Everyone wants high standards and great exam results, but don't dare push or otherwise inconvenience my child

This is human nature really.

Honours classes, especially Honours maths which is very tough, have to be fast-tracked from way back, The foundation for Hons Leaving Cert Maths begins in Junior Cycle

It is good to see a committed teacher with high standards

Lots of teachers start out that way, but they soon learn how the game is played, after a few incidents like the one outlined in the OP

Peter Flynt

barney 20v wrote: »

So you don't agree that parents should have a say in the manner good or bad of teachers in the classroom?

Are ( some) teachers to be left to their own devices ,poor practices and people skills and not questioned by parents if issues arise ?
Seems very old school Ireland way of thinking to me!

What do you mean . . "left to their own devices"?

Are you stuck in some sort of victorian era where teachers are going to take out the cane when it suits them?

It doesn't stop parents who haven't a clue what they're talking about ringing principals.

But everyone thinks they know because everyone has been the through the system.

In my experience the hardest working students happen to come from families whereby education is a priority and the opinion of the teacher is respected and listened to. These parents know how hard teachers work for their child. Of course they would have n problem phoning a principal should the teacher be considered incompetent (which the vast majority are not)

Conversely the moaners and whingers all happen to be very similar to their children.

These people are very few in number (<2% I'd say) but they have a massive sense of entitlement allied with poor parenting skills.

bearhugs

Parents should of course have a say and take an interest in what's happening in the classroom. I think the problem is when parents take a students word for granted before discussing a problem with the teacher, leading to undermining the teacher and making their job much harder.

I've no problem with a parent sending a note or ringing asking why a child is being punished, and just about every time when they hear both sides they can see that their child deserved it.

It's frustrating when a parent sends in a note saying that the child will not do the punishment because they don't feel it's appropriate, when they don't know exactly what happened.

Also, even if the parent believes the punishment to be pointless, I personally believe that the parent should back the teacher up and have the child complete it.