Try To Tax Commercial Vehicle

NoellieSla

Hi all,

I want to tax my Nissan Navara commercially.
I have the following docs ready to go :

1. DOE
2. Vehicle Log Book
3. Company Reg Number
4. RF111A Form

I am registered as a Sole Trader and I am not registered for VAT as I don't predict to meet the €37,500 threshold required.
On the RF111A declaration form I need to put in a VAT number,

Thanks for your advise on this.

bazz26

I think you just put in your PPS number instead of VAT number.

Enter your pps number

NoellieSla

Thanks guys
Appreciate that.

MidlandsM

Its not that simplistic....

You may very well need a vat no, as well as a good declaration form and the pps no's of some emplyess to qualify for commercial tax on a crewcab.

The pps no is not enough in most tax offices. Otherwise, its the full cc engine rate of the vehicle.

mickdw

MidlandsM wrote: »

Its not that simplistic....

You may very well need a vat no, as well as a good declaration form and the pps no's of some emplyess to qualify for commercial tax on a crewcab.

The pps no is not enough in most tax offices. Otherwise, its the full cc engine rate of the vehicle.

I'd they are requiring a vat number it needs to be challenged as there is no requirement to be vat registered to operate a business that would require a commercial vehicle.

MidlandsM

mickdw wrote: »

I'd they are requiring a vat number it needs to be challenged as there is no requirement to be vat registered to operate a business that would require a commercial vehicle.

Challenge away, but they will not tax it for you.

Mycroft H

MidlandsM wrote: »

Challenge away, but they will not tax it for you.

Offaly Co.Co had to be challenged. A good friend of mine is a tree surgeon, he got a new van and got greif trying to tax it.

He's not vat registered and wasnt allowed tax it at the counter as they wanted a vat number.

He complained to the county manager and his local councillor (including a photo of the van with company decals and his CRO number) and got a letter back requesting CVRT details and a guarantee that it would be taxed. A week later he'd the disc in the post.

Complaints do work. And it still seems that councils are free to make up rules as they go.

corktina

isn't the RF111a in lieu of the VAT number? he has that got

mickdw

Personally ive not heard of any issues but i know this nonsense of needing a vat number OR tax clearance was originally what the greens were coming up with. I don't know if it is written into law but if it is, it is certainly crazy stuff.
Crew cab owners needing employees makes sense, no issues there.
I think the vat number idea was loosely put out there originally by John Gormley to mean legit business users without realising that legit businesses need not be vat registered.
The idea that tax clearance cert would be sufficient was even sillier as this would allow any tax compliant citizen to tax a commercial but most importantly would allow a TD to tax a commercial.
This is absolutely ripe for a challenge. I would happily take that to court.
Surely to stamp out the cowboys, They should simply have looked for evidence of running a business. They could have implemented it properly and had a simple tick box on tax return or on revenue website where you could apply for commercial vehicle tax status for that business which revenue would issue if they deemed you to be in business.
Then we need to talk about the farmers. I've not heard of farmers having problems either tbh.

NoellieSla

mickdw wrote: »

Personally ive not heard of any issues but i know this nonsense of needing a vat number OR tax clearance was originally what the greens were coming up with. I don't know if it is written into law but if it is, it is certainly crazy stuff.
Crew cab owners needing employees makes sense, no issues there.
I think the vat number idea was loosely put out there originally by John Gormley to mean legit business users without realising that legit businesses need not be vat registered.
The idea that tax clearance cert would be sufficient was even sillier as this would allow any tax compliant citizen to tax a commercial but most importantly would allow a TD to tax a commercial.
This is absolutely ripe for a challenge. I would happily take that to court.
Surely to stamp out the cowboys, They should simply have looked for evidence of running a business. They could have implemented it properly and had a simple tick box on tax return or on revenue website where you could apply for commercial vehicle tax status for that business which revenue would issue if they deemed you to be in business.
Then we need to talk about the farmers. I've not heard of farmers having problems either tbh.

Ya but SOLE TRADERS don't have employees either.... Do they not understand the word "SOLE"

Oryx

NoellieSla wrote: »

Ya but SOLE TRADERS don't have employees either.... Do they not understand the word "SOLE"

Sole traders may have employees. Sole doesn't mean solo.

mickdw

NoellieSla wrote: »

Ya but SOLE TRADERS don't have employees either.... Do they not understand the word "SOLE"

If you mean a sole trader without employees, well you shouldn't really have use for a crew cab but you should be eligible to have normal commercials.

mfceiling

Put "IE" in front of your PPS number - that is now your vat number - not saying this wil work but might be worth chancing.

MidlandsM

mfceiling wrote: »

Put "IE" in front of your PPS number - that is now your vat number - not saying this wil work but might be worth chancing.

...and that would be fraud.

Guy:Incognito

mickdw wrote: »

Personally ive not heard of any issues but i know this nonsense of needing a vat number OR tax clearance was originally what the greens were coming up with. I don't know if it is written into law but if it is, it is certainly crazy stuff.
Crew cab owners needing employees makes sense, no issues there.
I think the vat number idea was loosely put out there originally by John Gormley to mean legit business users without realising that legit businesses need not be vat registered.
The idea that tax clearance cert would be sufficient was even sillier as this would allow any tax compliant citizen to tax a commercial but most importantly would allow a TD to tax a commercial.
This is absolutely ripe for a challenge. I would happily take that to court.
Surely to stamp out the cowboys, They should simply have looked for evidence of running a business. They could have implemented it properly and had a simple tick box on tax return or on revenue website where you could apply for commercial vehicle tax status for that business which revenue would issue if they deemed you to be in business.
Then we need to talk about the farmers. I've not heard of farmers having problems either tbh.

What about normal paye workers that need vans? Tradesmen working for companies and the like that don't provide you with a van

Spook_ie

NoellieSla wrote: »

Hi all,

I want to tax my Nissan Navara commercially.
I have the following docs ready to go :

1. DOE
2. Vehicle Log Book
3. Company Reg Number
4. RF111A Form

I am registered as a Sole Trader and I am not registered for VAT as I don't predict to meet the €37,500 threshold required.
On the RF111A declaration form I need to put in a VAT number,

Thanks for your advise on this.

According to the online pdf of RF111A you only need your income tax number not VAT
https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111A_en.pdf


If you are running any business you need to be filling in a tax assesment each year so the business should be registered with revenue via form TR1 which as you are registered as a sole trader I assume you have

Stella Virgo

MidlandsM wrote: »

Its not that simplistic....

You may very well need a vat no, as well as a good declaration form and the pps no's of some emplyess to qualify for commercial tax on a crewcab.

The pps no is not enough in most tax offices. Otherwise, its the full cc engine rate of the vehicle.

totally wrong on the above.
you do not need a vat number for commercial tax.end of.
you will need your pps number,type of buisness.garda stamp.

MidlandsM

Stella Virgo wrote: »

totally wrong on the above.
you do not need a vat number for commercial tax.end of.
you will need your pps number,type of buisness.garda stamp.

I think you'll find you are wrong. There are certain counties here where their motor tax office simply will not tax or van or ccab at the commercial rate without a vat or herd no.
Ive been asked by van buyers from me to tax a van for a year for them, because they cant at their local tax office, as they dont have a vat or herd no. So, am i still wrong Stella? 2 words for you...egg and face...

Ohhh,and adding "end of" to your posts does not make your post content correct....in fact, it makes you look lame.




.

mickdw

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What about normal paye workers that need vans? Tradesmen working for companies and the like that don't provide you with a van

Again, something could be done like the employer who would be deemed a business by revenue could nominate employee reg numbers. This could be all done online with little hassle.

mickdw

MidlandsM wrote: »

I think you'll find you are wrong. There are certain counties here where their motor tax office simply will not tax or van or ccab at the commercial rate without a vat or herd no.
Ive been asked by van buyers from me to tax a van for a year for them, because they cant at their local tax office, as they dont have a vat or herd no. So, am i still wrong Stella? 2 words for you...egg and face...

Ohhh,and adding "end of" to your posts does not make your post content correct....in fact, it makes you look lame.




.

Having looked at the form, it's clear that you are wrong. It only looks for tax number, not vat number plus declaration that they are a TAX registered business. A person's tax reg number if not vat registered will be their pps number.
I think you may find that the people who ask you to tax for them are people who are not registered as a business at all and would be making a false declaration if putting their pps number on the form.

Crew cabs are very popular among farmers in my neck of the woods (as they can be used as a family car etc too) and obviously a farmer won't have employees yet I've never heard of any of them having any trouble taxing them.

MidlandsM

mickdw wrote: »

Having looked at the form, it's clear that you are wrong. It only looks for tax number, not vat number plus declaration that they are a TAX registered business. A person's tax reg number if not vat registered will be their pps number.
I think you may find that the people who ask you to tax for them are people who are not registered as a business at all and would be making a false declaration if putting their pps number on the form.

Im not referring to the form, never did, so im not wrong. And people who ask me to tax a van for them are indeed registered business people, like the op.
The reality is some motor tax offices will not accept nothing short of a valid vat no.

Brady Victorious Windowpane wrote: »

Crew cabs are very popular among farmers in my neck of the woods (as they can be used as a family car etc too) and obviously a farmer won't have employees yet I've never heard of any of them having any trouble taxing them.

Thats because they have a herd no.

mickdw

MidlandsM wrote: »

Im not referring to the form, never did, so im not wrong. And people who ask me to tax a van for them are indeed registered business people, like the op.
The reality is some motor tax offices will not accept nothing short of a valid vat n.

Well the tax office are clearly acting outside the law and anyone who is refused tax on the basis of not providing something that is not required would do well to get in writing that they are refusing for that reason then go to town on it.
The tax office have not a leg to stand on.
I'm sure the fact that the government agent tasked with collecting motortax refused a person's payment even though all requirements of the system had been complied with would form a good defence in front of a judge if one was driving without tax.

MidlandsM

mickdw wrote: »

Well the tax office are clearly acting outside the law and anyone who is refused tax on the basis of not providing something that is not required would do well to get in writing that they are refusing for that reason then go to town on it.
The tax office have not a leg to stand on.
I'm sure the fact that the government agent tasked with collecting motortax refused a person's payment even though all requirements of the system had been complied with would form a good defence in front of a judge if one was driving without tax.

Yada yada...tax office this, that and the other, still means im not wrong which you said i was.

Care to apologise?

mickdw

MidlandsM wrote: »

Yada yada...tax office this, that and the other, still means im not wrong which you said i was.

Care to apologise?

You are wrong. You said i could challenge all I'd like but they wouldn't tax it for me. That is not correct. You appear to be going on evidence of some office that are acting outside their powers and using this as a catch all.
There is also a post earlier that showed offally Co Co had to swiftly do a u turn when they refused someone tax on that basis.
You are still trying to put across the impression that a vat number is a requirement. It is not.

MidlandsM

mickdw wrote: »

You are wrong. You said i could challenge all I'd like but they wouldn't tax it for me. That is not correct. You appear to be going on evidence of some office that are acting outside their powers and using this as a catch all.
There is also a post earlier that showed offally Co Co had to swiftly do a u turn when they refused someone tax on that basis.
You are still trying to put across the impression that a vat number is a requirement. It is not.

Im not wrong. I said some counties. Get your facts straight and apolgize. Be a man

mickdw

MidlandsM wrote: »

Im not wrong. I said some counties. Get your facts straight and apolgize. Be a man

You are unreal.
So far on thread we have the official document detail the requirements which clearly disagrees with what you are spouting.
All we have to back up your argument is your own argument. For all we know, it could be dole scroungers that are asking you to tax their commercials. The one case highlighted where someone was wrongly refused tax in offally resulted in a fast back pedal from the council.

You are pulling the thread off track. The definitive answer here is that a vat number is not a requirement to tax a commercial.
If you refuse to agree with that, then there is no point arguing.

MidlandsM

mickdw wrote: »

You are pulling the thread off track. The definitive answer here is that a vat number is not a requirement to tax a commercial.

What a dumb conclusion from mickdw. This is not definitive. No way is it.

Dublin plumbing

pps will do not problem

MidlandsM

Dublin plumbing wrote: »

pps will do not problem

In some counties...not in others