The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

Hotblack Desiato

Mickey Mike wrote: »

You are very anti digital

DAB is just a bad technology, obsolete before it was even introduced

EdgeCase

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

DAB is just a bad technology, obsolete before it was even introduced

It would be a bit like Eir suddenly trying to sell the wonders of ISDN in 2019.

To quote Calvin Harris : "it was acceptable in the 80s"

"digital" is marketing hype in a bid to try attract the youth but the best quality sounding RTE will not make up for poor quality programming !

"digital" is also a con because if the crap is compressed out of it then what's the point ?

I'm not saying RTE should have 320 Kbps AAC+ like the BBC internet streams ( geo-blocked of course ) which I think is way over kill for Radio but a Minimum of 64 Kbps AAC+ doesn't sound bad at all and would be a good for radio.

But RTE DAB is shockingly bad.

Here's what RTE say about DAB

DAB offers many advantages including a large range of additional programming, and quality clear reception without the necessity for receiver tuning changes.


Clear reception ? but 50% of the population can receive it.

And unlike FM where weak signal areas can still usually be heard , DAB = all or, nothing.

And you don't have to tune a lot of modern FM radios. I never had to tune the stations in my car on FM they appear and disappear as the radio is able to pick them up !

Another - for DAB !

RTE also mentioned displaying of track information or something like that, FM does this so another - for DAB.

Why the -'s for DAB ? because it's supposed to offer something better........it doesn't in fact it offers poorer sound quality which is mainly down to RTE's poor choice in order to save money !

RTE's DAB transmission MP2 codec was invented in 1986 and this is the "modern" technology they adopted. We've all heard of Mp3 right ? well mp2 predates this lol.

The AAC+ DAB standard was invented in 2005 !!!

This is like pushing DRM for Shortwave but at least that uses AAC+

So remember Digital has been around for a long time and RTE want us all on a "modern Digital" technology invented in 1986 !

Where do they come up with it ?

SimonMaher

Just to throw in a different perspective on this one (I'll go back to my bunker afterwards!). On this forum, and others, we tend to worry about platforms and codecs and encoders a lot. Truth be known though, average listener doesn't care in the least and nor should they. They want the programming they like, delivered to them by whatever means is necessary and easy for them. All sorts of cleverness went into us putting 8Radio on FM in 4 cities and DAB in Cork last winter but listeners didn't care. They were just happy because someone was playing Nirvana at lunchtime.

DAB isn't intended as a replacement for FM. RTE have no plans to replace FM, nor do Comreg nor even do the BAI. None. Similar to online (where 8Radio lives most of it's life), it's complimentary and allows for a range of services to be delivered to listeners who will either listen, or not listen. No regular people will decide not to listen to something because it's encoded in MP2 or doesn't have 16khz bandwidth. People will tune in to things they like and again, that's exactly how it should be.

DAB is held up here (and there's no secret to this, it's all in the BAI consultation documents on their website for the 2019-2022 strategy) because the big commercial players say with one side of their face that there is no demand for it, while from the other side of their face they say it could effect their viability. It's purely an economic argument and will continue to be.

Simon

kazoo106

I do remember a list in the mid 90's of MW allocations for nearly every county in Ireland, I wonder does anyone still have that list or is there an online source for it?
I do agree that RTE Gold would suit MW, there is a station on 1494kHz here in the NE for the past few months and I must say, I find myself listening to it in the car quite a bit as it nearly covers all of Co. Louth and into Monaghan.
There is definitely a market for well done AM.

SimonMaher

SimonMaher wrote: »

Just to throw in a different perspective on this one (I'll go back to my bunker afterwards!). On this forum, and others, we tend to worry about platforms and codecs and encoders a lot. Truth be known though, average listener doesn't care in the least and nor should they. They want the programming they like, delivered to them by whatever means is necessary and easy for them. All sorts of cleverness went into us putting 8Radio on FM in 4 cities and DAB in Cork last winter but listeners didn't care. They were just happy because someone was playing Nirvana at lunchtime.

DAB isn't intended as a replacement for FM. RTE have no plans to replace FM, nor do Comreg nor even do the BAI. None. Similar to online (where 8Radio lives most of it's life), it's complimentary and allows for a range of services to be delivered to listeners who will either listen, or not listen. No regular people will decide not to listen to something because it's encoded in MP2 or doesn't have 16khz bandwidth. People will tune in to things they like and again, that's exactly how it should be.

DAB is held up here (and there's no secret to this, it's all in the BAI consultation documents on their website for the 2019-2022 strategy) because the big commercial players say with one side of their face that there is no demand for it, while from the other side of their face they say it could effect their viability. It's purely an economic argument and will continue to be.

Simon

My point was that RTE are trying to promote DAB as some new technology and because it's "digital" that means better.

Unfortunately it's the Radio manufacturers that are also pushing the technology by including it on the majority of new radios which eliminate completely AM which is ridiculous because it costs nothing extra to include AM and another pint is that they make poor quality AM radios these days too with some exceptions it's as if they are deliberately trying to kill AM.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

We can all survive without DAB.

The Real puzzle is why do RTE not have Gold on FM ? FM is full of crap stations with Pop music belting out all over the band, why not put Gold on FM ? ridiculous !

Because there isn't 2Mhz free for another national FM network, that's why.

Even if there was, it would be justifiable for it to be given to a commercial operator first.

The most logical thing to do would be put RnaG back to its old status of MW and FM only in areas with high native Irish language speakers and use its FM network - but this is politically unacceptable due to the strength of the Irish language lobby.

So they should put it on LW 252 then and make use of the transmitter or put it on MW and serve the whole Island with one transmitter. MW radios are more common.

They're obviously not arsed about providing proper DAB coverage.

The new Atlantic 252

It is scandals that RTE have been forced to spend 2 million euro on longwave the past 6 years due to a few radio enthusiasts with political connections making a disproportionate amount of noise with flux outrage about elderly people. These radio enthusiasts have engaged in an social media harassment and bullying campaign against any average Joe who disagreed with them on Twitter etc. Btw could Mickey Mike/Mad_lad please stop posting shïte.

Elmo

The new Atlantic 252 wrote: »

It is scandals that RTE have been forced to spend 2 million euro on longwave the past 6 years due to a few radio enthusiasts with political connections making a disproportionate amount of noise with flux outrage about elderly people. These radio enthusiasts have engaged in an social media harassment and bullying campaign against any average Joe who disagreed with them on Twitter etc. Btw could Mickey Mike/Mad_lad please stop posting shïte.

~350,000 a year, possibly the same as they've had to fork out for Oireachtas TV, because a few civil servants and politicians didn't want to pay for Saorview.

kazoo106

This price keeps going up and up

If it's 60kw (which many estimate the power level has been reduced to) then assuming it uses 75kw of electricity (allowing for heat loss) at discounted rates of €0.15 /Kwh - the annual ESB cost would be €98,550 - which in the big scheme of things is Tiny. - where are the other €252(pardon the pun) thousand going???
I feel the op above would have no problem if the output were still aimed at British teenagers instead of containing the audio of RTE 1

icdg

Take a warning for backseat moderation and personal abuse, the new Atlantic 252

RTE won't be paying domestic rates for electricity.

Why would someone come on with the name "the New Atlantic 252" ? what's that all about , given the nature of the discussion and all.

What a great first post.......

225LongWave

17 all re-advertised by 'irtc' in 1998 try info@bai.ie
(353) 1 6441200 2-5 Warrington Place, Dublin DO2 XP29


HP 1251kHz Westport 50kW 1584 Ballina 1kW 1386 Limerick 1kW
Many are. ITU co-ordinted frequencies shared with neighbouring countries equal power
Limited to 1kW search "Geneva 1975" World Administrative Radio Conference. GE-75

kazoo106 wrote: »

I do remember a list in the mid 90's of MW allocations for nearly every county in Ireland, I wonder does anyone still have that list or is there an online source for it?
I do agree that RTE Gold would suit MW, there is a station on 1494kHz here in the NE for the past few months and I must say, I find myself listening to it in the car quite a bit as it nearly covers all of Co. Louth and into Monaghan.
There is definitely a market for well done AM.

Mickey Mike

The new Atlantic 252 wrote: »

It is scandals that RTE have been forced to spend 2 million euro on longwave the past 6 years due to a few radio enthusiasts with political connections making a disproportionate amount of noise with flux outrage about elderly people. These radio enthusiasts have engaged in an social media harassment and bullying campaign against any average Joe who disagreed with them on Twitter etc. Btw could Mickey Mike/Mad_lad please stop posting shïte.

I have no idea what you're talking about, myself and Mad_Lad have different views on this matter and leads to a good discussion along with many others, its great so don't take it personally, relax.

icdg

We might not feed the troll, please

225LongWave

For 2013 252Lw Total site & transmission operational cost €859,000
(€429,500 in 6 months) Search 2rn Tarriff Changes 2013.

In March 1998 500kW x18 + 100kW X 6 = IR£1,100 daily ( €1400 ) €42,000pcm

Therefore €252,000 over 6 months is Purely Historic 20 year accounting by RTE ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BdeFTOjkpzY

Mickey Mike wrote: »

I have no idea what you're talking about, myself and Mad_Lad have different views on this matter and leads to a good discussion along with many others, its great so don't take it personally, relax.

Mickey Mike

Is there any news of RTE Radio 1 launching on mini DAB+ in the UK? the time is pushing on. Another idea is to broadcast on low power MW in the main cities, 1 or 2kw of power. We're down to the last 3 months of LW 252.

lgs 4

Mickey Mike wrote: »

Is there any news of RTE Radio 1 launching on mini DAB+ in the UK? the time is pushing on. Another idea is to broadcast on low power MW in the main cities, 1 or 2kw of power. We're down to the last 3 months of LW 252.

it's a good idea, but, it would have to be national DAB network in the UK. Not all Irish people live in Birmingham and London. That could cause problems with sports rights and other talk sports radio stations. Who cover Irish sports events.BBC Radio 5 live sports and 5 sports extra and Talk Sport. Who geo-block sports events.

Last I checked a few months ago a decision had not been made.

What's most likely to happen is that 252 will be switched off in the hopes people will then just forget about it.

Shame as it's signal belted in all over wales and into Birmingham when we were there in the Summer all from just 1 single transmitter.

They know now DAB is not nearly as efficient as once believed.

I can't get DAB and even if I could I'd only be able to get a few RTE stations only.

And they try push DAB as being modern better than analogue FM ? well no, not really because FM carries digital information these days and you don't have to re-tune or tune at all a lot of modern FM radios especially in cars so the case for DAB becomes less valid.

As if tuning a radio is a chore........

Digital Radio does not provide the amazing quality benefit that is seen with HDTV, proper HDTV, RTE Digital TV broadcast are not that great and are too compressed but it's ok for smaller TV's.

L1011

Their Irish broadcast licence would not be valid on UK DAB in three weeks time and obtaining a UK licence for something provided from outside the UK would be problematic.

The Cush

L1011 wrote: »

Their Irish broadcast licence would not be valid on UK DAB in three weeks time and obtaining a UK licence for something provided from outside the UK would be problematic.

The Irish broadcast licence isn't valid for UK DAB now, they require an Ofcom licence. This was the reason they didn't launch on the Manchester small-scale DAB trial mux a few years ago. This was addressed in a UK Dept of Culture consultation last year, I posted links to the consultation and the outcome here at the time.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102977559
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105600397

L1011

The Cush wrote: »

The Irish broadcast licence isn't valid for UK DAB now, they require an Ofcom licence. This was the reason they didn't launch on the Manchester small-scale DAB trial mux a few years ago. This was addressed in a UK Dept of Culture consultation last year, I posted links to the consultation and the outcome here at the time.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102977559
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105600397

That is rather strange, seeing as the UK hosts huge quantities of broadcasters broadcasting specifically to a foreign country on a UK licence (TV3 Scandinavian, Discovery Europe, MTV Networks, etc etc).

225LongWave

2 week closure June/July 2016 to replace mast base-plate estimated €360,000?
€4.75million 252 transmitter has DRM capability 160kW was Never used in 12 years

RTEs
Dee Forbes & J.P. Coakley both know the cost of €verything and the value of Nothing !

€504 daily cost of running 252 at 300kW €15,000pm
€186,000p/a ESB 10kVA Supply to Summerhill = € 46,500 Quarter

TOTAL €859,069 2013 2RN Annual Expenditure for 252kHz/1190mts LW

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3hjO0j8x1OE
27 June - 8 July 2016

TDA Algeria3 252 (750kW from 19:00)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6pi78vo87c8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BdeFTOjkpzY
ATLANTIC 252LW 500kW TRANSMITTER
(August 1989 - 2001 & March 2004- July 2007)
video © 1996 Greg Parke

SPDUB wrote: »

Well that would explain why they have put the sea area forecast on DAB & LW ( and fade out from the Ronan Collins show on LW ) from February this year

Seemed an odd decision to put it on LW as well if it was closing in June ,

kazoo106

Was driving today from Donegal back to the East Coast while trying to listen to Radio 1 - Neither Mountgorey Hill, Truskmore, Monaghan, Holywell or Clermont Carn are any way good around Omagh, with AF hopping between all through RDS. Ended up just switching to LW which was perfect.

Mickey Mike

Long Wave 252 is staying until Jan 2022, is this correct? Where did the info come from?
If its true and I doubt if it is, they should move to 261khz and ramp up the power to 300kw.
I didn't hear anything of its continuation beyond June 29th. I await with interest.

Glad to see an important piece of infrastructure kept functioning for another few years.

A radio station however is only as good as the programming and RTE's programming is deteriorating .

RTE are creeping in more and more modern music to the point it's beginning to become a pop station lol. The music played on Tubridy's show is especially bad and not really fit for the age of audience, not even I like that muck they're playing. Even int he early hours they play an oldie and a very modern crap song after.

RTE are trying to gain a younger audience but the music isn't going to work in fact it's turning off my Mother, Aunt and many other older generations.

SPDUB

What's happened to my post which I made in this thread today at 2pm and now only exists in 225LongWave's quote .

Just realised that what I quoted is also gone though why my post wasn't just edited to remove that quote and leave the factual information in it seems odd