Check your water meters or get the chequebook

keno-daytrader

Ok, so I wanted to get a feel for how much water I use, went out to the trusty water meter and took a reading.

Then I noticed the little fecker was spinning like there is no tomorrow, went in and shut off the mains at supply in kitchen, as I thought the tank maybe filling in the attic. Out to the water meter to check, she still going like the devil.

Went out the next day and repeated process when I made sure attic tank was full, same thing, God only know how much water is going thru my meter but never reaching my house.

Im the end house, and suspect suspect the builder of the estate botched it like so many other thing during the tiger. (Estate is 5 years old)

I went on Irish water website, searched hi and low about leaks but found nothing, I will start paying for water next week, wtf is the procedure for this mess?

BTW nothing has come thru the post about Irish water or any packet with FAQ's

<snip> nothing on Irish water website about someone in my position, or else it is buried so deep and a normal person cant find it.

<snip>

Kristopherus

<snip>

On a serious note, ring Irish Water on Monday about this nonsense. Get them to check out the meter. Pt the onus firmly in their court. They are responsible for the upkeep of the meters. Make sure you check it at regular intervals between now and Monday morning. Might be helpful to have a chat with your neighbours.

Wabbit Ears

First irish water said If you can find the leak, Irish water will fix for free. This was all over the papers when they started this water meter thing

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-water-well-repair-leaks-but-youll-have-to-find-them-29882238.html

But of course they screwed us all on that

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irish-water-will-fix-your-leak-for-free-if-its-big-enough-30278873.html

So if you have a leak they reccomend you get a plumber

What will I do if I have a water leak on my property?

From:https://www.water.ie/help-centre/contact-us/online-enquiry/
If the leak is within the boundary of your property it is your responsibility as the owner of the property to get it fixed. We would advise you to contact an accredited plumber who may assist you in determining the location of the leak and make a repair to the pipe.
If the leak is outside your property please contact Irish Water.

Id say just contact Irish water and give them the two readings with the mains turned off for a few hours and ask them how to proceed.

The_Morrigan

keno-daytrader wrote: »

Irish politics at its best, Phil makes an absolute balls of everything he touches, and Enda knows he will never get elected again, but ****e... Phil backed me big during the attempeted oust in the party, I better send Him to Europe with a big fat salary and 2 pensions so he can retire fat and happy, while the rest of us wallow in the **** he left behind.

Rant over sorry

Keno this is A&P, if you want to talk politics we have a forum dedicated to that topic. Please keep your posts here within the remit of this forum.

keno-daytrader

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Keno this is A&P, if you want to talk politics we have a forum dedicated to that topic. Please keep your posts here within the remit of this forum.

Fair enough, ok so back on topic, I rent this property, as Im not the owner and Im not Irish water, but I seem to still be responsible for the charges that come thru this water meter by the looks of things Irish water wont care about the problem if the leak is on the property.

And just who determines where the leak is?

I had a look around the property and the ghost estate that adjoins it and can see no standing water. Landlord will say its not my problem, Irish water will say its not our problem, and I think many people like me will be fecked because the bill is going to me.

The_Morrigan

Tell your landlord you think there is a leak. Although you are responsible for the charges the landlord is responsible for any repairs to the property.
He'll be paying the bill if the house is ever empty between tenants so it's in his best interests to sort it out.

Uncle Ben

From the links provided it does appear that Irish Water have changed the goalposts. I too was under the impression that the first fix was free and there did not appear to be any distinction whether the fault was inside or outside the gate.

However, if I were the op, I would first check to see if there is a cross service connection coming into the property, i.e. that the meter, boundary box or stopcock which is actually outside your house does not in fact service your neighbour's supply. This is in fact not so uncommon and it was I believe supposed to be checked by the meter installers. Whether they did check is another question.

To do it yourself, turn your supply off at the meter which appears to be outside your property fully. Then turn your own taps on internally. If the water flows then it means that the builders have put the connections in arse ways and your connection is outside your neighbours. If the connection is correct however the next thing I would suggest if the meter is spinning around even with the supply switched off is to contact your Co.Co.

Although the councils have passed over most of their roles and duties to Irish Water, you maybe lucky enough to get some water caretaker who may come out and at least try and detect if the leak is on your side or the public side of your fence.

I know up to recently of some local authorities that would detect and repair leaks, however with approx. 2 weeks to go I could not say with any certainty if councils are going to do any repairs at this late stage. Phone the council and your local Councillor for starters and other wise just hope that that the leak is major enough for Irish water to rectify. Good luck.

iguana

Uncle Ben wrote: »

However, if I were the op, I would first check to see if there is a cross service connection coming into the property, i.e. that the meter, boundary box or stopcock which is actually outside your house does not in fact service your neighbour's supply. This is in fact not so uncommon and it was I believe supposed to be checked by the meter installers. Whether they did check is another question.

Yup very common apparently. We found out by chance last week that a neighbours' water supply is coming through our meter. We're on a bit of a race against time to get it sorted as billing starts in 10 days.

keno-daytrader

Ok so I took a reading sat night, and just took one now so approx 36 hours have passed.

The meter shows 12,000 liters used!

We were away for most of the weekend and consumed hardly any water, so obviously there is a major leak or diversion somewhere.

I'll get on to Irish water and find out what the next step is, however I heard the spinster lady from IW on Newstalk this morning and she seemed to indicate that the leak procedure had not been fully finalized yet as so many things with IW, but we start paying next week!

Belfunk

Op i had a similar problem, i was fairly sure long before the meter was installed that my neighbour was connected to our supply. To cut a long story short they admitted fault and removed the meter as there were two houses feeding off the one meter.

I had a word with the contractor installing the meters and they told me that one meter in Glasneivin had 7 houses feeding off it. When i questioned why the meter was installed i was told that it wasn't their job to find out who was feeding off the meter that was for Irish water to deal with. In the same conversation he pointed out another two houses on my road that were probably feeding off the one meter.

keno-daytrader

Irish water were in touch and this was there response, it would appear the govt have done a complete u-turn on Phil Hogan promise of

"To help households control consumption, the Government will fund a scheme providing a free first fix of leaks identified by meter installers during the metering programme. "

Here is Irish Water reply to my inquiry on a serious leak.

"Thank you for your email regarding a potential leak.

The owner/occupier is responsible for the maintenance for any water pipe work up to 225mm from the boundary of their property. Irish Water are responsible for the maintenance for any water pipe work beyond this point. If the leak is on your private property, it would be your responsibility to get it fixed."

If we are losing 40% of our water thru leaks, I suspect this will become a major issue to home owners and renters, when we start paying based on the meters.

L1011

keno-daytrader wrote: »

Irish water were in touch and this was there response, it would appear the govt have done a complete u-turn on Phil Hogan promise of

"To help households control consumption, the Government will fund a scheme providing a free first fix of leaks identified by meter installers during the metering programme. "

Here is Irish Water reply to my inquiry on a serious leak.

"Thank you for your email regarding a potential leak.

The owner/occupier is responsible for the maintenance for any water pipe work up to 225mm from the boundary of their property. Irish Water are responsible for the maintenance for any water pipe work beyond this point. If the leak is on your private property, it would be your responsibility to get it fixed."

If we are losing 40% of our water thru leaks, I suspect this will become a major issue to home owners and renters, when we start paying based on the meters.

Devil is in the detail here - the leak wasn't detected by the installers, which is what the quote states.

keno-daytrader

MYOB wrote: »

Devil is in the detail here - the leak wasn't detected by the installers, which is what the quote states.

Its a farce, there are more than 5000 litres of water going thru my meter in a 24 hour period and as a renter Irish Water say Im responsible.

Uncle Ben

keno-daytrader wrote: »

Irish water were in touch and this was there response, it would appear the govt have done a complete u-turn on Phil Hogan promise of

"To help households control consumption, the Government will fund a scheme providing a free first fix of leaks identified by meter installers during the metering programme. "

Here is Irish Water reply to my inquiry on a serious leak.

"Thank you for your email regarding a potential leak.

The owner/occupier is responsible for the maintenance for any water pipe work up to 225mm from the boundary of their property. Irish Water are responsible for the maintenance for any water pipe work beyond this point. If the leak is on your private property, it would be your responsibility to get it fixed."

If we are losing 40% of our water thru leaks, I suspect this will become a major issue to home owners and renters, when we start paying based on the meters.

I am not suggesting anything, however I did hear that if your meter somehow ended up being smashed a person would end up receiving an assessed bill. Considering how much water you are losing over a weekend when the house is empty it could be a cheaper and cleaner option.

The_Morrigan

keno-daytrader wrote: »

Its a farce, there are more than 5000 litres of water going thru my meter in a 24 hour period and as a renter Irish Water say Im responsible.

He owner is responsible for repairs...get onto your landlord pronto with the response from Irish Water.

Nono Toure

How do I check my meter? Do I just look under the black box on the footpath that was installed a few months ago? I live in an estate, and on my row of houses is about 16 houses, but Irish Water only installed 4 black boxes (meter cover). I presume only 1 meter is under each box??

Uncle Ben

Nono Toure wrote: »

How do I check my meter? Do I just look under the black box on the footpath that was installed a few months ago? I live in an estate, and on my row of houses is about 16 houses, but Irish Water only installed 4 black boxes (meter cover). I presume only 1 meter is under each box??

Ideally a meter should be located outside of your property. That black box is called a boundary box and in effect this houses your meter and future 'stopcock'. open the lid with a screwdriver and have a look around. the black numbers are litres and red part litres. You will be measured in cubic metres and 1000 litres = 1 cubic metre..If there is no box outside of your house your stopcock could possibly be on private property or else there is possible confusion over its location or who it serves.If you have no bb installed you will more than likely get an assessed bill.

Kelly06

5,000 litres @4.88 per thousand litres is nearly €25 euro a day. If your land lord won't fix it before the metered charge comes in in six months I would just move out!

Nono Toure

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Ideally a meter should be located outside of your property. That black box is called a boundary box and in effect this houses your meter and future 'stopcock'. open the lid with a screwdriver and have a look around. the black numbers are litres and red part litres. You will be measured in cubic metres and 1000 litres = 1 cubic metre..If there is no box outside of your house your stopcock could possibly be on private property or else there is possible confusion over its location or who it serves.If you have no bb installed you will more than likely get an assessed bill.

Thanks for that Ben. There's a BB right outside my house on the footpath, but then there's none again for 3 houses either way! I just hope the BB at my house is for my house, and MY house only...

L1011

Nono Toure wrote: »

Thanks for that Ben. There's a BB right outside my house on the footpath, but then there's none again for 3 houses either way! I just hope the BB at my house is for my house, and MY house only...

Are there stopcocks for them?

On my road they put in meters for everyone with the stopcock on the path or on the original concrete driveway - anyone with the stopcock on an asphalt or cobblelock driveway didn't get one yet. They were here again during the week a bit down the road but I didn't do see what they were doing so it may have been a return with an asphalt contractor or something.

Nono Toure

MYOB wrote: »

Are there stopcocks for them?

On my road they put in meters for everyone with the stopcock on the path or on the original concrete driveway - anyone with the stopcock on an asphalt or cobblelock driveway didn't get one yet. They were here again during the week a bit down the road but I didn't do see what they were doing so it may have been a return with an asphalt contractor or something.

Not sure if the stop cock is there. I've only recently moved in here. I never looked under the black cover. I'll check them tomorrow and see.

ted1

If your losing that amount if water, you would notice damp in the house or garden and quite possible suffer from subsidence.

Turn off all the water . Take a reading, fill a 5 litre bottle and read the meter again.

Then come back to us

Uncle Ben

Nono Toure wrote: »

Thanks for that Ben. There's a BB right outside my house on the footpath, but then there's none again for 3 houses either way! I just hope the BB at my house is for my house, and MY house only...

Go out tomorrow and check.There should be a large white plastic key type screw beside the meter. just turn it a quarter turn and it should knock off the water in your house.Run your taps and if they run out you will know the connection is yours. if the water continues to flow well then you are in the same boat as a lot of other people.

Uncle Ben

MYOB wrote: »

Are there stopcocks for them?

On my road they put in meters for everyone with the stopcock on the path or on the original concrete driveway - anyone with the stopcock on an asphalt or cobblelock driveway didn't get one yet. They were here again during the week a bit down the road but I didn't do see what they were doing so it may have been a return with an asphalt contractor or something.

the installation was carried out initially on all those houses were the stopcocks were located on public property. where stopcocks are located on private property, on crazy paving, tarmac drives and running through the back gardens etc., these will be addressed at later stages.

jay0109

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Ideally a meter should be located outside of your property. That black box is called a boundary box and in effect this houses your meter and future 'stopcock'. open the lid with a screwdriver and have a look around. the black numbers are litres and red part litres. You will be measured in cubic metres and 1000 litres = 1 cubic metre..If there is no box outside of your house your stopcock could possibly be on private property or else there is possible confusion over its location or who it serves.If you have no bb installed you will more than likely get an assessed bill.

My meter has only got black numbers and only 5 at that which seems very small. It has moved up to 16 when I checked it yesterday- it was on zero a few days after it went in last June.
Annoying that I cannot see part litres as its hard to know if the meter is running through leaks etc

Thoie

Elizabeth Wotsit (Irish Water representative) just announced on Prime Time again that the first fix is free, even if it's between the meter and the house, so I'd get back on to Irish Water again.

crossmolinalad

close the stopcock before the meter on a saturday or sunday morning when everyone is home
if your next doors are connected to your supply they will knock on your door with the question if you are out of water also
My brother in law had the same problem and found out there were six other houses connected to his supply and meter
And all of those other houses had their meters too connected to each other (in serial connection)


Meter>>house>>>>meter>>>>house>>>>meter>>> ECT ECT

Idbatterim

Didnt I read recently somewhere that they were setting aside 50 odd million to deal with leaks on private property? Op while this is unfortunate for you andI hope you get it sorted out asap, this is exactly why there should be water metering, simply no one gives a sh*t if they are getting something for free, now I know we are already paying for it indirectly....

keno-daytrader

Thoie wrote: »

Elizabeth Wotsit (Irish Water representative) just announced on Prime Time again that the first fix is free, even if it's between the meter and the house, so I'd get back on to Irish Water again.

Thanks a mil for that, I will get on to them again, can this whole thing be any more of a joke?

Lady on Prime time says first fix is free but IW tell me in writing that all responsibility falls on the owner/occupier, this is off to a really good start.

oinkely

Driving to work (or possibly home from work) one day and the Head of Communications with Irish water (Elizabeth Arnett) a very articulate lady was being interviewed - I would imagine on morning Ireland, or drivetime. And she repeatedly stated that Irish water would fix the first leak inside your property for free. There was no mention of who had to identify the leak, only that it would be fixed for free.

did a quick google for the podcast there but not having much luck. Maybe someone else will be unable to unearth it.

Thoie

oinkely wrote: »

Driving to work (or possibly home from work) one day and the Head of Communications with Irish water (Elizabeth Arnett) a very articulate lady was being interviewed - I would imagine on morning Ireland, or drivetime. And she repeatedly stated that Irish water would fix the first leak inside your property for free. There was no mention of who had to identify the leak, only that it would be fixed for free.

did a quick google for the podcast there but not having much luck. Maybe someone else will be unable to unearth it.

That's the same one who was on Prime Time last night (I missed her surname). Here's the Prime Time episode : http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10326874/

She's introduced and starts speaking around the 5 minute mark.

Ogham

The "first fix " is still due to happen - but the details won't be released until charges are announced - and Irish Water can't say leaks will be fixed until the regulator agrees everything. It should all be announced before Oct 1st (maybe even 1 day before!)
I have seen mention of large leaks only qaulifying (over 800l a day) .

keno-daytrader

I have received a totally different reply from the one I had yesterday saying that owner/occupiers are 100% responsible for leaks.

Another IW rep emailed me the following, in response to my followup email regarding the info on Prime Time last night from IW

"Thank you for your email regarding a first fix policy.

The Government recently announced plans to introduce a scheme whereby the first fix on a customer supply pipe would be provided free of charge to Irish Water customers. The policies, processes and systems to support implementation of this scheme are currently being developed and it is expected that this scheme will be available to Irish Water customers from early 2015.

We apologise that we cannot be more specific at this time."

It would seem the policy of the day depends on the rep that deals with you.

Ogham

I saw a bit in the proposals that mentioned capping bills where leaks are suspected until leak fixed or ruled out. The cap would be at the approriate "assessed charge" .
The meters have "constant flow" alarms - so IW will be aware of it as soon as they do their drive by readings.

Sun in Capri

Just a thought - as the meters are on public property namely foothpaths, I wonder if they will be a novelty for vandals!

Supercell

How do you know if you are being billed from the right meter?
On our road the stop cocks are all outside the house one door up in a staggered fashion. So my meter is outside my neighbors house while his is outside the house beside him and so on.
Is there a visible unique meter number we can check on the bills to make sure we are not being billed for our neighbors usage or vice versa?

copey

Tip of the iceberg

delahuntv

keno-daytrader wrote: »

I have received a totally different reply from the one I had yesterday saying that owner/occupiers are 100% responsible for leaks.

Absolutely correct the exact same as a short circuit on your electricty board is for eyou to fix. HOWEVER, Irish Water will do a first fix free of charge. Any leaks after that on your property and you are either charged if Irish Water come out or you get your own plumber to fix it.

Also, the first 2 bills will be CAPPED at the average cost for the number of occupant in the household. So if you use a crazy 500,000 litres in the first quarter and the same in the second billing cycle and there are just 2 adults in the house, the maximum you will pay is €69.75 per bill.

If you are metered and you use under the €69.75 worth, you will pay the lower amount.

So you will have ample time to organise a fix and or find out the reason of excessive water meter reading before you pay for excessive use.

ted1

i got a pack addressed to me asking me to provide my details. Other than pikeys laying Tarmac who else expects you to sign up without providing the tariffs.

dubrov

This is either a meter problem or a plumbing problem.

If it is a plumbing problem, it highlights a reason why water charges are being brought in.
Loads of water being wasted with no incentive to fix the problem.

Sounds like the meter is the problem here given the volume.

Zzippy

Saw a post from a friend on fb - she's had no water since Friday. IW wouldn't come out, but Dublin City Council did. Apparently after digging up 35m of pavement, they found 4 meters connected to 3 houses (2 to one house), and no water flowing through 2 of the meters, apparently caused by bad installation. Would say there are plenty more cases like this...

Ogham

Zzippy wrote: »

Saw a post from a friend on fb - she's had no water since Friday. IW wouldn't come out, but Dublin City Council did. Apparently after digging up 35m of pavement, they found 4 meters connected to 3 houses (2 to one house), and no water flowing through 2 of the meters, apparently caused by bad installation. Would say there are plenty more cases like this...

All the local councils still do the water repairs for Irish Water - so when someone calls Irish Water they will nearly always get council workers.
They are all part of the same thing now.

Kelly06

delahuntv wrote: »

Absolutely correct the exact same as a short circuit on your electricty board is for eyou to fix. HOWEVER, Irish Water will do a first fix free of charge. Any leaks after that on your property and you are either charged if Irish Water come out or you get your own plumber to fix it.

Also, the first 2 bills will be CAPPED at the average cost for the number of occupant in the household. So if you use a crazy 500,000 litres in the first quarter and the same in the second billing cycle and there are just 2 adults in the house, the maximum you will pay is €69.75 per bill.

If you are metered and you use under the €69.75 worth, you will pay the lower amount.

So you will have ample time to organise a fix and or find out the reason of excessive water meter reading before you pay for excessive use.

Hey just wondering are they planning on every one having their water meter installed by the time the first two bills have issued?

Strikes me that people who don't have their water meter installed by the time the first six months are over are at a bit of a disadvantage because their water meter will go in at a time when they are being billed for the amount used. If there is a leak it will be fixed but will the astronomical bill be disregarded? I hope so!

Ogham

Kelly06 wrote: »

Hey just wondering are they planning on every one having their water meter installed by the time the first two bills have issued?

Strikes me that people who don't have their water meter installed by the time the first six months are over are at a bit of a disadvantage because their water meter will go in at a time when they are being billed for the amount used. If there is a leak it will be fixed but will the astronomical bill be disregarded? I hope so!

The 6 mmonths of capped bills starts once a meter is installed.

Kelly06

Ogham wrote: »

The 6 mmonths of capped bills starts once a meter is installed.

So it's pay per adult occupancy until the meter is put in and then for another six months after ? Thanks I didn't know that !

delahuntv

Zzippy wrote: »

Saw a post from a friend on fb - she's had no water since Friday. IW wouldn't come out, but Dublin City Council did. Apparently after digging up 35m of pavement, they found 4 meters connected to 3 houses (2 to one house), and no water flowing through 2 of the meters, apparently caused by bad installation. Would say there are plenty more cases like this...

I love the "I saw a post from a friend who said"

Usually a lot of it is made up.

To check flow through meters you wouldn't have to dig even 1 cm let alone 35m (did the friend measure it?)

Did the "friend" not notice no water before last Friday?

Somehow I think there a little poetic licence in the story.

Zzippy

delahuntv wrote: »

I love the "I saw a post from a friend who said"

Usually a lot of it is made up.

To check flow through meters you wouldn't have to dig even 1 cm let alone 35m (did the friend measure it?)

Did the "friend" not notice no water before last Friday?

Somehow I think there a little poetic licence in the story.

Perhaps there is, but it is a true reflection of what was posted on FB by a friend of mine, with photos. I'm not going to link to a private FB page. I'm sure she is not an expert on water meters, but went on what she was told by the DCC workers who did the repair work. But thanks for doubting my bona fides in posting. :rolleyes:

L1011

Zzippy wrote: »

Perhaps there is, but it is a true reflection of what was posted on FB by a friend of mine, with photos. I'm not going to link to a private FB page. I'm sure she is not an expert on water meters, but went on what she was told by the DCC workers who did the repair work. But thanks for doubting my bona fides in posting. :rolleyes:

DCC workers wouldn't be touching meters, or anything to do with water at all so I also doubt the accuracy of this.

Ogham

MYOB wrote: »

DCC workers wouldn't be touching meters, or anything to do with water at all so I also doubt the accuracy of this.

Irish Water haven't suddenly employed thousands of workers. The local council's existing water staff do the same work tahy always did - but coordinated by Irish Water.

The teams installing meters are just doing meters. Leaks etc will be covered by council staff all over the country working on behalf of Irish Water.

iguana

MYOB wrote: »

DCC workers wouldn't be touching meters, or anything to do with water at all so I also doubt the accuracy of this.

That's true. If the meters are in Leitrim. :rolleyes:

All the work is overseen and ordered by IW but it is the staff from the water departments in the relevant local authority who will be doing the work.

boardz

Can I ask how are the figures read on the meter. ..not physically but what numbers are the thousands hundreds etc....read my meter on 20/09 and it read 9514 and now today its 10471?

Thanks