If the UK asked Ireland to rejoin the Union, how would you vote?

Jimoslimos

Deleted User wrote: »

Germany exports far more to the UK than the UK imports from Germany.

Wha....??

Nodin

jank wrote: »

So, your just trolling at this stage.. how nice.
I can take your blanket refusal to answer two simple questions as a means that you have no answer to my question, therefore you retract your initial statement by default.

....so bad were we had no accent, they had to give us. It didn't even rain properly, that's how crap we were.

marienbad

No to reject rejoining the Union

marienbad wrote: »

That may not be a realistic option for those banks , if they wish to do business with the EU they will have to follow EU rules .

Only within the EU, nothing stopping them having their HQ in the UK and trading in the EU.

Shenshen

Deleted User wrote: »

Look at it this way,

Germany exports far more to the UK than the UK imports from Germany. In fact I believe the UK is the highest importer of German cars in the EU.

Do you really think that a country like Germany is going to stop something like the EU getting in the way of their exports to the UK regardless of them being in or out?

As for attraction, many large banks have already stated they could move to the UK to avoid EU legislation which in itself would attract plenty of business to the UK.

How on earth would Germany export more to the UK than the UK imports from Germany?
Does half the stuff get sunk in the Channel on the way there?

How will the banks avoid EU legistlation if they want to trade within the EU?

Shenshen

Deleted User wrote: »

Only within the EU, nothing stopping them having their HQ in the UK and trading in the EU.

And their tradings within the EU will have to follow EU regulation and legislation.
Same as it does for European banks trading with the US, for example.
It doesn't matter if their HQ is in Canada, business done in the US falls under US law. Same with the EU.

smurgen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Irish patriotism or history?

What exactly is that?

A independence war that the majority didn't want.

A civil war that nobody wanted.

A country run today by pure idiots buffoons and con men.

Sure leave us to it so my good man.I'm sure we'll get on grand here without ya

marienbad

Deleted User wrote: »

Only within the EU, nothing stopping them having their HQ in the UK and trading in the EU.

Not quite true, it will be on the EU's terms .

smurgen

No to reject rejoining the Union

smurgen wrote: »

Sure leave us to it so my good man.I'm sure we'll get on grand here without ya

Yes im sure we will be grand without the UK,

We will go on paying higher taxes,
Water charges,
Electricity Charges,

etc.

Ireland a great little place to be ripped off.

tipptom

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes im sure we will be grand without the UK,

We will go on paying higher taxes,
Water charges,
Electricity Charges,

etc.

Ireland a great little place to be ripped off.

Not gone yet then?

tipptom

No to reject rejoining the Union

tipptom wrote: »

Not gone yet then?

Why should I go?

Its my country and my opinion and views are just as valid.

Jimoslimos

No to reject rejoining the Union

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Wha....??

Export, not import.

My bad.

irishfeen

Deleted User wrote: »

Irish patriotism or history?

What exactly is that?

A independence war that the majority didn't want.

A civil war that nobody wanted.

A country run today by pure idiots buffoons and con men.

I fcuking hate this type of s.hite we have to deal with in Ireland... always running the country down thinking everywhere and everyone is better then us - we have built one of the most open, successful, modern countries and economies in the world.

Yes we have our problems but every single country in the world does too, our social welfare rates are among the best in the world to ensure people have a chance even if they find themselves at the very bottom, we send our children through free primary, secondary and third level education to produce one of the most educated people on the planet etc.... we went through the biggest correction of finances since the great depression and you know what most of us are still here battling away... yes alot of my generation have emigrated recently but you can be sure most will be home soon.

If you don't like the country or people then there are 195 other countries that you can go and make your home - see how great they are... this country was damn hard fought for by those who went before us - they could not imagine such a successful, forward thinking county in their wildest dreams. I would fight to death before giving up Irish independence for any amount of money or being part of any system of government where London rules us again - thousands of Irish men, women and children have died and been sent to the four corners of the earth over the centuries at the hands of people who refused us the right of self determination.

Christ sake be proud of your history, where you come from and what we have achieved - the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side, it rarely if ever is.

con___manx1

Deleted User wrote: »

Irish patriotism or history?

What exactly is that?

A independence war that the majority didn't want.

A civil war that nobody wanted.

A country run today by pure idiots buffoons and con men.

well its pretty obvious that nobody wanted a civil war. thats just here say on your behalf that the majority didn't want to fight the war of independence. Ireland had many wars with the english before the war of independence so what does that tell you? I would rather our country run by irish idiots than english ones any day.

tipptom

Deleted User wrote: »

Why should I go?

Its my country and my opinion and views are just as valid.

Certainly your opinion is valid but








if I hated Ireland as much as you seem to, you would have to be a prize sadist to stay here.

Nodin

tipptom wrote: »

Certainly your opinion is valid but








if I hated Ireland as much as you seem to, you would have to be a prize sadist to stay here.

Well, sadist to us, masochist to himself.

Jawgap

AnLonDubh wrote: »

I have the book here, what page does he say this.

I mean what I'm saying isn't some wild claim, Goídhelc was the original word for the language in Old Irish. I don't see how it would have been taken from an Annal specifically, since it was in all Old Irish writings.


Old Irish is very different to Primitive Irish. Primitive Irish does not look like Modern Irish, but Old Irish does. Old Irish does not refer to the language prior to Christianisation, it is the language from the late 6th century onward and yes it does look like modern Irish.
Old Irish didn't have Latin grammar applied to it, its grammar evolved from Primitive Irish grammar, in fact Primitive Irish looks far more like Latin, even though it existed prior to the coming of Latin learning.

Pg 67 - "The earliest recorded use of the terms 'Goidel' by the Irish to describe themselves dates to the seventh century and early eight century in Annal source."

kingchess

Jawgap wrote: »

Pg 67 - "The earliest recorded use of the terms 'Goidel' by the Irish to describe themselves dates to the seventh century and early eight century in Annal source."

what were they called before that??and by whom?? I was always under the impression that the word Goidel came from the Welsh when they were speaking about people from Ireland??just curious about the origins of the word.

Jawgap

kingchess wrote: »

what were they called before that??and by whom?? I was always under the impression that the word Goidel came from the Welsh when they were speaking about people from Ireland??just curious about the origins of the word.

Well, while I'd like to play out tonight I can't as there's actual work to be done- read the book if you want the answer - the origins of Goidel are explained in the same chapter.

kingchess

naw-I just google it like other people

Frank Lee Midere

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes, of course it would be different, but in what way no one can know.

Btw - assuming A caused B (Carr, after all, tells us history is the study of causes), then the counterfactual idea that if A had not occurred then B would not have been caused (as in no Penal Laws then things would be substantially different) is usually classed as 'unconsidered counterfactualism' - and the product of 'scholarly sloppiness.'

In science it would be fairly obvious that applying a force to an object gives a different result to not applying one; it causes a different reaction unless there are counter forces of the exact same magnitude.It's pretty clear that the forces that changed Irish history have done so in a different way than the lack of those forces, or different forces, would have.

Making a different argument -- that everything would have been the same regardless -- requires the greater proof, if any could be given.

AnLonDubh

Jawgap wrote: »

Pg 67 - "The earliest recorded use of the terms 'Goidel' by the Irish to describe themselves dates to the seventh century and early eight century in Annal source."

Yes, so the name was not taken from the Annals, an Annal is the earliest attested use of the term.

Jawgap wrote: »

The language did not spontaneously arise here as it is not regarded as a 'linguistic isolate' - in fact "Goidelic" means pirate or raider, and was borrowed from one of the Annals to describe the family of languages.

The term was not borrowed from the Annals, it existed in the language as a borrowing from Welsh. Its modern use as the name for the language family comes from it being the Old Irish word, not due to it being borrowed from the Annals.

In an earlier post you said:

Jawgap wrote:

Again really? Old / Primitive Irish was only codified and written down when Latin arrived and had the structures and grammars of that language applied to it - so having gone through that filter you reckon what went in (the pre-Latin language) would still be comprehensible to us? I reckon it would be about as comprehensible as Ogam writing which itself was replaced by Latin text allowing some of the great works of Irish history (including the various Annals etc) to be produced. An example of how our culture was enhanced by coming into contact with others.

You seem to be confusing script evolution with stages of the language. Old Irish was always written in the Latin script. Primitive Irish only in Ogam. Again the pre-Latin language was Primitive Irish, which I did not claim was similar to Modern Irish (being in fact more like Latin as I said).

Indeed he says "the fuller literary expression of Irish only became possible through the the greater impact again of Latin and its written culture upon society in Ireland."

But let me guess, he's wrong?

I don't know why you think I believe him to be incorrect. I never said Irish writing was not influenced or improved by contact with the continent, I only said Old Irish is similar to Modern Irish and recognisable as the same language. This is especially true of the nominal system and less so of the verbal system (although clearly the same language).

Jawgap

Yes, well done - you caught me out.

I've been undone by your formidable powers of scrutiny and argument......

Congrats on using a source I introduced to defeat me

Richard Hillman

No to reject rejoining the Union

The poll is pushing back up to 19%. I recon Boards is a good poll for 18-30 year olds. I would say the Under 18s would very much welcome our return to the Union considering the popularity of Made In Chelsea and the offspring of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. The older crowd would also love a return. They love QE2, the DOE and the NHS.

I reckon give it 10 years for a referendum. QE2's last dieing wish will be for Ireland to come home. Her unrelenting Irish subjects will give her that and we can go back to calling O'Connell Street, Sackville Street and Dun Laoghaire its rightful name of Kingstown.

Nodin

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The poll is pushing back up to 19%. I recon Boards is a good poll for 18-30 year olds. I would say the Under 18s would very much welcome our return to the Union considering the popularity of Made In Chelsea and the offspring of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. The older crowd would also love a return. They love QE2, the DOE and the NHS.

I reckon give it 10 years for a referendum. QE2's last dieing wish will be for Ireland to come home. Her unrelenting Irish subjects will give her that and we can go back to calling O'Connell Street, Sackville Street and Dun Laoghaire its rightful name of Kingstown.

D minus for effort there Rick.

The Golden Miller

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The poll is pushing back up to 19%. I recon Boards is a good poll for 18-30 year olds. I would say the Under 18s would very much welcome our return to the Union considering the popularity of Made In Chelsea and the offspring of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. The older crowd would also love a return. They love QE2, the DOE and the NHS.

I reckon give it 10 years for a referendum. QE2's last dieing wish will be for Ireland to come home. Her unrelenting Irish subjects will give her that and we can go back to calling O'Connell Street, Sackville Street and Dun Laoghaire its rightful name of Kingstown.

You really do have to wonder about people who constantly try to wum/be sarcastic/disingenuous over an anonymous website to annoy people they will never meet. Absolutely pathetic sad acts if they have nothing more constructive to be doing with their time

Sunnyisland

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The poll is pushing back up to 19%. I recon Boards is a good poll for 18-30 year olds. I would say the Under 18s would very much welcome our return to the Union considering the popularity of Made In Chelsea and the offspring of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. The older crowd would also love a return. They love QE2, the DOE and the NHS.

I reckon give it 10 years for a referendum. QE2's last dieing wish will be for Ireland to come home. Her unrelenting Irish subjects will give her that and we can go back to calling O'Connell Street, Sackville Street and Dun Laoghaire its rightful name of Kingstown.

Not forgetting in giving back heuston station it's former name of kingsbridge, Can't wait for your refrerendum :-)

marienbad

irishfeen wrote: »

I fcuking hate this type of s.hite we have to deal with in Ireland... always running the country down thinking everywhere and everyone is better then us - we have built one of the most open, successful, modern countries and economies in the world.

Yes we have our problems but every single country in the world does too, our social welfare rates are among the best in the world to ensure people have a chance even if they find themselves at the very bottom, we send our children through free primary, secondary and third level education to produce one of the most educated people on the planet etc.... we went through the biggest correction of finances since the great depression and you know what most of us are still here battling away... yes alot of my generation have emigrated recently but you can be sure most will be home soon.

If you don't like the country or people then there are 195 other countries that you can go and make your home - see how great they are... this country was damn hard fought for by those who went before us - they could not imagine such a successful, forward thinking county in their wildest dreams. I would fight to death before giving up Irish independence for any amount of money or being part of any system of government where London rules us again - thousands of Irish men, women and children have died and been sent to the four corners of the earth over the centuries at the hands of people who refused us the right of self determination.

Christ sake be proud of your history, where you come from and what we have achieved - the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side, it rarely if ever is.

Would you say the same of those who want closer European union ?

Karl Stein

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes, well done - you caught me out.

I've been undone by your formidable powers of scrutiny and argument......

Congrats on using a source I introduced to defeat me

That's a very silly response.

TheEnigma

Jawgap wrote: »

When did this Gaelic Ireland exist? define it.

Are we talking the period pre-Norman times, pre-Viking?

Does Gaelic Ireland include the Hiberno-Normans? The Desmonds and Geraldines?

Pre-Christian?

Is the wrtiting of Gaelic Ireland only to be found in ogham? What about Latin and Medieval French, as well as Primitive Irish?

Gaelic Ireland still existed during Viking and Norman times, just some parts of the island weren't gaelic. You could argue it still exists, in a cultural sense, e.g somewhere like East Belfast being a modern 'pale'

AnLonDubh

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes, well done - you caught me out.

I've been undone by your formidable powers of scrutiny and argument......

My intention wasn't to catch you out, only to discuss.

Jawgap wrote: »

Congrats on using a source I introduced to defeat me

I didn't "defeat" you, you just had some of the linguistic history slightly incorrect.
The source didn't "defeat" you either, you just said it made a claim that it didn't.

Honestly, if you perceive an argument as in terms of "beating" or "winning" and getting sarcastic when you "lose", it is difficult to have a productive discussion.