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Fresh allegations regarding abuses of the Penalty Point system

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    #32
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    bravestar wrote: »
    I guess stamp collecting is a thing of the past. Nice to see you have a hobby though.


    For some people "policing" seems to be a hobby. Certainly not a job with a public service remit.

    At least in my case my 'work' is voluntary, and costs the State (aka the taxpayer) nothing.

    Adults playing with toy guns -- now that's a hobby worth pursuing...


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    #33
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    For some people "policing" seems to be a hobby.

    They are easily recognised by their insistence on telling actual police how they should do their job to their standard.


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    #34
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    No, the ones I see are paid from the public purse but do little to earn it. It would appear to be some form of pastime, with the added attraction of a State salary.


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    #35
    bravestar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Adults playing with toy guns -- now that's a hobby worth pursuing...

    Lol, is that meant to be a dig beacause I did some airsofting a few years ago? Was great fun! As is paint ball. But then the hunting took over and sure I can't pay for it all. You should try it some time, fun I mean!


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    #36
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    I've yet to see what evidence has been put forward about this. Like I said above, I think it's more an assumption based on the registered owner.

    You have a great ability to quote edge cases. What is the liklihood of this happening? Very low.
    The exemption doesn't apply to official vehicles, it applies to Gardaí. As an example, if I was driving off duty, in a private vehicle, and I saw a car driving dangerously ahead of me I would have no issue breaking the speed limit to get closer and get the reg for a follow up investigation. If, during that incident, I went through a speed trap I would have no issue claiming the benefit of the exemption afforded to member acting in the course of their duty.

    Absolutely no problem with this if it happens. But in reality the probability of a Garda actually doing this is next to none and to be actually caught in, say, a speed trap is even lower again.

    The real stinker in all of this is the consistent refusal of Gardai to admit that this behaviour is wrong and needs to end. Instead we get continuous edge cases being trotted out as common incidences justifying more bad behaviour.

    However, I will grant you one thing. The public are also complicit in this. If there were no friends and family asking for points to be quashed then there would be less of a scandal. All you'd be left with is the genuine cases that you state are common.


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    #37
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    TheNog wrote: »
    I tend to agree that you don't really understand what you want from AGS.

    Professional:
    I believe we already have a professional police force that has regularly scored high in public satisfaction surveys and with a good detection/conviction rates.

    Efficient:
    Very difficult to be as efficient as possible right now because we are operating below the red line of 13,000. Also due to the cutbacks there is a significant reduction in investment for IT systems, overtime, courses, equipment etc

    Accountability:
    After the first round of FCPS claims a number of senior Gardai have already been disciplined.

    Sgt McCabe has raised more questions which at this stage are only claims neither proven nor unproven right now.


    I missed the above post earlier.

    You don't really understand what I understand by professional policing.

    Irish policing culture may well score highly in in the Irish cultural context. My impression (and my experience in Ireland compared with necessarily limited experience in other countries) is that we Irish do not like enforcement. That is certainly the case in relation to traffic law.

    Abuses of the Penalty Points system -- established and alleged -- emanate from that culture, imo. Our system has long been run on a clientelist grace and favour basis, and in that context getting things like Penalty Points fixed by someone you know on the inside is as natural to some people as breathing.

    That culture is slowly and painfully changing, as new institutions such as GSOC and the Garda Inspectorate exert their influence. However, it seems clear that progress is not steady and predictable.

    I still do not accept the resources excuse. The Pulse system is a resource. Is it being used properly? Sgt McCabe would probably say "absolutely not".


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    #38
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Five Lamps wrote: »
    The public are also complicit in this. If there were no friends and family asking for points to be quashed then there would be less of a scandal. All you'd be left with is the genuine cases that you state are common.


    Hear hear. It takes two to tango, as the cliche goes, and all this monkeying with Penalty Points would not occur if there wasn't a cute hoor culture enabling it, inside and outside the force.


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    #39
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Five Lamps wrote: »
    You have a great ability to quote edge cases. What is the liklihood of this happening? Very low.

    Of what happening? I'm not sure how your question relates to the part you are quoting. If you are asking what the likelihood is of assumption being used to link the drivers to Gardaí as friends and family the answer is very high. That information wouldn't be on PULSE
    Five Lamps wrote: »
    Absolutely no problem with this if it happens. But in reality the probability of a Garda actually doing this is next to none and to be actually caught in, say, a speed trap is even lower again.

    Why?
    Five Lamps wrote: »
    The real stinker in all of this is the consistent refusal of Gardai to admit that this behaviour is wrong and needs to end. Instead we get continuous edge cases being trotted out as common incidences justifying more bad behaviour.

    What behaviour is wrong? Speeding while not in the course of duty and having the points wiped? Has anyone defended that? Please quote where they have. What's wrong is the condemnation of a force with no evidence of wrong doing whatsoever.


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