Driving without insurance on day of purchase

Lucasos78

Hi there. I was stopped by garda without insurance on day of car purchase on my way from previous owner to my home.Unfortunatly insurance on another car does not cover driving other cars. What i can expect in a court?

Santa Cruz

Lucasos78 wrote: »

Hi there. I was stopped by garda without insurance on day of car purchase on my way from previous owner to my home.Unfortunatly insurance on another car does not cover driving other cars. What i can expect in a court?

If you had insurance on another car and had not transferred it I would go back to the Garda and show him/her this and plead your case. Just be all apologetic etc. It's worth a chance

Lucasos78

Santa Cruz wrote: »

If you had insurance on another car and had not transferred it I would go back to the Garda and show him/her this and plead your case. Just be all apologetic etc. It's worth a chance

Newly bought car will be registered on my wife name, so there will be no insurance transfer. I tried to be apologetic, but that garda seems to be unfriendly for foreign nationals,so that will go further to the court.

martinr5232

Lucasos78 wrote: »

Newly bought car will be registered on my wife name, so there will be no insurance transfer. I tried to be apologetic, but that garda seems to be unfriendly for foreign nationals,so that will go further to the court.

You had no insurance i seriously doubt it had anything to do with you being a foreign national.

Would you use the foreign national excuse if you ran into someone aswell ??

hullaballoo

Seems excessively harsh but by the book, you are required to be insured in order to drive. If you have fully comprehensive insurance on your own car, it may be the case that your insurer covers you for 3rd party, fire and theft in other cars. You should ring your insurer to see whether you might have been insured to this minimum standard.

Finding this out for sure is your first step.

kjbsrah1

I'd doubt he was unfriendly because you were a 'foreign national' he was just doing his job. It was just your bad luck to get stopped when you did. Before getting behind the wheel of any vehicle it is important to make sure you are insured for that vehicle - generally if you have comprehensive you are fine, but maybe policies differ.

You will probably just have to wait for your court date and hope the judge gives you a chance to explain you case.

Lucasos78

It is allready checked, i have a fully compherensive insurance but without driving other cars option. Its only covers: "Any private car up to 2000cc loaned to the insured up to 7 days by a garadge or vehicle repairer whilst the vehicle bearing Registration Number stated above is being serviced or repaired unless cover is provided by the insurance policy of the garadge or vehicle repairer."

Pro Hoc Vice

Lucasos78 wrote: »

Hi there. I was stopped by garda without insurance on day of car purchase on my way from previous owner to my home.Unfortunatly insurance on another car does not cover driving other cars. What i can expect in a court?

It's a mandatory ban unless there is a special reason, each DJ can be different on that issue you would be best advised to instruct a solicitor if driving is important to you.

cml387

Lucasos78 wrote: »

Newly bought car will be registered on my wife name, so there will be no insurance transfer.

I don't understand this bit.

The car is registered to your wife?. Are you named on her insurance? You will need to be if you want to drive it.

Lucasos78

It was a day of purchase. We bought that car for my wife, we had only one car before. I was thinkink that my insurance( fully comp) inludes option for driving other cars , but it's not.

Little CuChulainn

hullaballoo wrote: »

Seems excessively harsh but by the book, you are required to be insured in order to drive. If you have fully comprehensive insurance on your own car, it may be the case that your insurer covers you for 3rd party, fire and theft in other cars. You should ring your insurer to see whether you might have been insured to this minimum standard.

Finding this out for sure is your first step.

How exactly is it excessively harsh to punish someone for driving while uninsured?

28064212

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

It's a mandatory ban unless there is a special reason

No it's not:

Failure to have motor insurance or driving without insurance in Ireland is generally punishable by:

• A fine of up to €5,000
• 5 penalty points and
• At the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months.

The court may decide that you be disqualified from driving instead of incurring penalty points. In that case, you will be disqualified for 2 years or more for a first offence and 4 years or more in the case of a second offence committed within 3 years of the first.

Source

hullaballoo

Lucasos78 wrote: »

It is allready checked, i have a fully compherensive insurance but without driving other cars option. Its only covers: "Any private car up to 2000cc loaned to the insured up to 7 days by a garadge or vehicle repairer whilst the vehicle bearing Registration Number stated above is being serviced or repaired unless cover is provided by the insurance policy of the garadge or vehicle repairer."

Is that directly from the policy document or have you checked with your insurer? Seriously, the best way to deal with this is to see what your insurance company say you're covered for over the phone. The policy document is open to interpretation - even that section you just posted.

Moderator: I'm going to ask everyone to refrain from commenting on the foreign national comment. You weren't there and you don't know what the Garda was like. Plus, I don't want this thread dragged wildly off-topic on the basis of what the OP perceived when stopped. It's irrelevant to legal discussion.

hullaballoo

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

How exactly is it excessively harsh to punish someone for driving while uninsured?

I don't know if you have ever bought a car but it's difficult to insure yourself before you drive it away from the garage.

In most cases, a Garda will turn a blind eye to someone driving their brand new (to them) car home from the seller/garage.

cml387

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

How exactly is it excessively harsh to punish someone for driving while uninsured?

Well many comprehensive insurance policies do cover driving other cars (but may exclude your spouse's) so it could be said that had insurance and was uninsured on a technicality.

If it does go to court, be sure to bring evidence that they stopped you actually on the day you bough the car.
District Justices often hear: "I literally just got the car that day" or "I hadn't driven the car but just that one day there was an emergency", and can be a bit suspicious.

Lucasos78

I've checked that directly with insurance company allianz.

Little CuChulainn

hullaballoo wrote: »

I don't know if you have ever bought a car but it's difficult to insure yourself before you drive it away from the garage.

In most cases, a Garda will turn a blind eye to someone driving their brand new (to them) car home from the seller/garage.

Never seen anyone let off by a Garda in that situation. At a minimum they can expect to have a car seized. It would be incredibly negligent of a Garda to stop a car that is uninsured and then let the driver drive on in it.

It's very easy to ring up an insurance company and have a reg number added to a policy before driving out of a garage. If you can't then you leave it there until it is insured or you get soemone to drive it who is insured to drive other vehicles. You can even tow the thing. There's no excuse for not having insurance in the ops circumstance.

Pro Hoc Vice

28064212 wrote: »

No it's not:

Source

Where does that contradict what I say,

But a slightly better source http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0065.html#sec65

(5) (a) Subject to paragraph (b), the period of disqualification specified in a consequential disqualification order shall, where the person to whom the order relates is convicted of an offence under section 52 or 53 tried summarily or under section 56, be not less than 2 years in the case of a first offence under the section concerned and not less than 4 years in the case of a second or any subsequent offence under the same section committed within the period of 3 years from the date of the commission of the previous offence or, in the case of more than one such offence, the last such offence.

(b) Where a person is convicted of an offence under section 52 tried summarily or under section 56, the court may, in the case of a first offence under the section concerned, where it is satisfied that a special reason (which it shall specify when making its order) has been proved by the convicted person to exist in his or her particular case to justify such a course—

(i) decline to make a consequential disqualification order, or

(ii) specify a period of disqualification in the consequential disqualification order of less than 1 year.


Section 56 is the obligation to be insured in the 1961 Act

JimsAlterEgo

hullaballoo wrote: »

I don't know if you have ever bought a car but it's difficult to insure yourself before you drive it away from the garage.

In most cases, a Garda will turn a blind eye to someone driving their brand new (to them) car home from the seller/garage.

But it wasnt his car - it was his wifes. we dont even know if he ever intended getting insurance on it.

OP - have you documentation to prove you had just purchased it and whose name is it in?

Pro Hoc Vice

hullaballoo wrote: »

I don't know if you have ever bought a car but it's difficult to insure yourself before you drive it away from the garage.

In most cases, a Garda will turn a blind eye to someone driving their brand new (to them) car home from the seller/garage.

That is seriously bad information to give out on a forum. It is very simple to transfer insurance on a car and really stupid to attempt to drive with out insurance its a matter take very seriously by the courts. It a mandatory ban of 2 years on first offence unless there is a special reason, and its a 4 year ban on a second offence, that is serious.

techguy

hullaballoo wrote: »

I don't know if you have ever bought a car but it's difficult to insure yourself before you drive it away from the garage

Why do you say it is difficult? When I bought my car I had no policy on my own previously. I just called insurer, got quoted and they gave me a date/time that the policy became effective. I then picked up the car and drove away insured.

While some people have said the punishment is harsh. I strongly disagree, it's the law to be insured, OP was uninsured and ignorance ("I thought") is no defense. Considering this is a serious matter of car insurance, I don't think the Garda should be criticized for enforcing the law.

OP, sorry to hear about your plight. I think the best you can do now is put your case together and plead it in front of the Judge. Prepare for a hefty fine, points at the least. Also, if you are convicted of a driving offence, particularly for no insurance you should factor that in come renewal. You will more than likely have to pay a considerable amount extra to be insured in the future.

leeroybrown

hullaballoo wrote: »

I don't know if you have ever bought a car but it's difficult to insure yourself before you drive it away from the garage.

I've never found that to be a problem. My insurers have always been willing to activate my insurance in order for me to pick up a car.

Kensington

hullaballoo wrote: »

I don't know if you have ever bought a car but it's difficult to insure yourself before you drive it away from the garage.

In most cases, a Garda will turn a blind eye to someone driving their brand new (to them) car home from the seller/garage.

Anyone time I've bought motorbikes or cars in the past the insurance company has happily transferred my policy over the phone while I'm standing on the forecourt...?

hullaballoo

My experience is different, I had awful problems when I was looking to buy a new car and at one stage ended up with two overlapping policies. I did think it was ridiculous at the time but I paid the two premiums nonetheless.

Anyway, because it seems people think I'm saying it's not a problem, please read my first post on this. It is definitely against the law and certainly something that the Gardaí can prosecute. Perhaps it's even something they always do prosecute. Admittedly, my memory of being stopped in these circumstances is 8 years old now so I could be missing details.

Mikros

hullaballoo wrote: »

I don't know if you have ever bought a car but it's difficult to insure yourself before you drive it away from the garage.

In most cases, a Garda will turn a blind eye to someone driving their brand new (to them) car home from the seller/garage.

I would totally disagree with this. The situation arises all the time for insurance companies and having a policy start at a certain date/time for a new car is not an unusual event.

In most cases a Guard will not turn a blind eye to driving without insurance, and with very good reason. It is looked on a serious motoring offence, hence the mandatory court appearance.

Pro Hoc Vice

hullaballoo wrote: »

My experience is different, I had awful problems when I was looking to buy a new car and at one stage ended up with two overlapping policies. I did think it was ridiculous at the time but I paid the two premiums nonetheless.

Anyway, because it seems people think I'm saying it's not a problem, please read my first post on this. It is definitely against the law and certainly something that the Gardaí can prosecute. Perhaps it's even something they always do prosecute. Admittedly, my memory of being stopped in these circumstances is 8 years old now so I could be missing details.

Call in to and local district court it is prosecuted and it's done a lot. I would rather pay for 2 insurance policies than have a conviction for no insurance and the ban that goes with it.

djimi

hullaballoo wrote: »

I don't know if you have ever bought a car but it's difficult to insure yourself before you drive it away from the garage.

No its not. You ring them in advance to sort out the details, then either arrange a time for the cover to switch over to the new car, or ring them from the garage to arrange the switch. Its very straightforward.

hullaballoo wrote: »

In most cases, a Garda will turn a blind eye to someone driving their brand new (to them) car home from the seller/garage.

I doubt many, if any, Gardai will ever turn a blind eye to an uninsured driver. You can chance a lot of things in Irish motoring and get away with it 99% of the time, but driving drunk and uninsured are two things that you never ever take a chance on, because if your caught you will be punished severely.

lulu1

Any time we have purchased a car before we leave the house we phone the insurance company an tell them to stop the insurance on our old car at say 2 o clock when we know we will be in the garage.Then instruct them to insure the new car at say 2.30 before we leave the garage. Simple enough done.

Lucasos78

Try to ring them at 8pm...

meathstevie

OP a simple phone call and maybe a small admin fee would have prevented this situation. There's simply no excuse except literally life or death matters to drive without insurance. Tax out a bit or NCT out a bit most Gardai will give you a bit of lee way but insurance, dangerous and drink driving is not up for discussion in most people's books.

If I were you on a first offence I'd simply plead guilty, save the district court judge the time and hassle of listening to a solicitor telling the same old lines and hope you get rewarded with a minimal sanction in return.

Pro Hoc Vice

Lucasos78 wrote: »

Try to ring them at 8pm...

Then pick the car up during office hours. Its a serious offence it is a mandatory ban for 2 years on first offence its a strict liability offence and the ban may not be imposed but only for a special reason.

hullaballoo

Well that's why I paid the two premiums! I wouldn't take the risk even though I was covered under the initial policy for 3rd party fire and theft.

I know Gardaí prosecute for no insurance all the time. All I'm getting at is that it may seem harsh to the OP. As I've said, now three times, it's still an offence.

techguy

Lucasos78 wrote: »

Try to ring them at 8pm...

Really? Are you arguing that they were closed for business?

Come on OP, your beginning to sound like somebody making a lot of excuses and not willing to accept what has happened. First of all you thought you were covered, next the Guard in question is being harsh to non-nationals. Now, the insurer was unreachable given the time of day.

djimi

Lucasos78 wrote: »

Try to ring them at 8pm...

If you know that the car is going to be purchased in the evening then you ring them during office hours and arrange a time for the cover to switch. Its not difficult to do. You know insurance is one of the most serious requirements of motoring; its absolutely vital to get it sorted before buying a new car. No insurance = get the thing towed home on the back of a lowloader. No excuses.

djimi

hullaballoo wrote: »

I know Gardaí prosecute for no insurance all the time. All I'm getting at is that it may seem harsh to the OP. As I've said, now three times, it's still an offence.

Its not harsh on the OP. Anybody who wants to drive in this country knows that they must be covered by insurance in order to do so. If you want to drive a car that isnt yours (or that you have just purchased) then its up to you to make sure that you are insured to drive it. If you get caught driving uninsured then you only have one person to blame.

lulu1

I don't know why people knowingly drive their cars even a short distance without being insured and then complain when they are stopped by the guards. With the price of insurance nowadays I'm sure everyone knows what's covered and what's not covered.
Someone mentioned that it was difficult to insure the car before you drive away from the garage it's only a matter of lifting the phone either in the garage or before you leave the house.

Lucasos78

For some of you death sentance is what i deserve.

marieholmfan

Go into your local Garda station at shift change with your insurance documents and point out that it is fully comp and that you are covered to drive another car (3rd party); say that you were stopped for no insurance but are insured. Half of the Gardaí out there will just stamp whatever is put in front of them especially because they won't want to be late for their tea.

If the Garda reads the documents properly you're no worse off are you?

djimi

Lucasos78 wrote: »

For some of you death sentance is what i deserve.

Im sorry if it comes across as harsh, but there isnt a nice way of putting it. You know (or should know) that you need to be insured to drive a car, you didnt check that you were covered to drive this new car and you got caught out. Its as simple as this Im afraid.

djimi

marieholmfan wrote: »

Go into your local Garda station at shift change with your insurance documents and point out that it is fully comp and that you are covered to drive another car (3rd party); say that you were stopped for no insurance but are insured. Half of the Gardaí out there will just stamp whatever is put in front of them especially because they won't want to be late for their tea.

If the Garda reads the documents properly you're no worse off are you?

Stamp what? The OP got a court summons; its not going to go away because a Garda signed a piece of paper.

Also, they werent insured to drive the car third party, so there would be nothing to gain from this at all really.

Lucasos78

Before he read this i was sure that im insured for other cars(fully compherensive).

marieholmfan

djimi wrote: »

Stamp what? The OP got a court summons; its not going to go away because a Garda signed a piece of paper.

Also, they werent insured to drive the car third party, so there would be nothing to gain from this at all really.

You turn up in court with 'proof' that you had insurance in place. They convince the court that they were insured.
What about getting an insurer to retroactively cover the car?

Remember even in crimes of strict liability the presumption of guilt is rebuttable.

coylemj

My experience of changing cars is that I phone the insurance company from the garage where I'm picking up the new car, I tell them that I want to make a permanent change to the car on the policy, give them the details (the reg. no. alone is sufficient these days) and they will swap the policy over there and then.

The policy and cert you get in the post will have the exact time and date that you made the switch so I would usually wait 10-15 minutes to be on the safe side before driving the car off the forecourt. If stopped by a Garda, I will show him/her the bill of sale to explain why there's isn't an insurance cert. on the the windscreen with that car's reg and (sometimes) no tax disc either, assure him/her that I've already changed the insurance over and will volunteer to being the new cert to a station nominated by me within 10 days though in practice I've never been stopped in that situation. I'd then avoid parking on a public street until the new disc arrives for fear of getting a ticket for no insurance disc.

As far as the old and new cars are concerned i.e. where you not trading in and have not yet gotten rid of the old car, I think I recall that on the last occasion that that arose, Axa gave me a few weeks overlap with cover for both cars at no extra cost.

coylemj

marieholmfan wrote: »

What about getting an insurer to retroactively cover the car?

Fantasy.

djimi

marieholmfan wrote: »

You turn up in court with 'proof' that you had insurance in place. They convince the court that they were insured.
What about getting an insurer to retroactively cover the car?

Remember even in crimes of strict liability the presumption of guilt is rebuttable.

Im pretty sure that you cant get retrospective insurance.

Im still not sure what you want the Garda to sign? So you get them to sign something without looking at it; what exactly? A letter to say that the car is covered? Even if a Garda was dumb enough to sign that without checking the policy details, would that be enough on its own to make the charge go away in court?

JimsAlterEgo

whos name is the purchase documentation in?

Pro Hoc Vice

marieholmfan wrote: »

You turn up in court with 'proof' that you had insurance in place. They convince the court that they were insured.
What about getting an insurer to retroactively cover the car?

Remember even in crimes of strict liability the presumption of guilt is rebuttable.

Yes, but as a matter of fact he was not insured you can not rebut that which is a fact. He can only rebut with evidence that he was covered.

An insurance company can not retroactively lie and say the person was covered if he was not.

Pro Hoc Vice

Lucasos78 wrote: »

For some of you death sentance is what i deserve.

A bit dramatic that, you have been told the punishment and how to possible mitigate it.

Lucasos78

My wife's name is on documentation.

Lucasos78

How big was a fine?

Pro Hoc Vice

Lucasos78 wrote: »

How big was a fine?

The norm that I have seen in DC is in many case 2 year ban plus €500 fine on average. Many bans are removed on appeal.