Looks Like We're The Threat Now!

squonk

Guinness are launching their own range of Craft Beers'.
'http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/guinness-new-beers-1652593-Sep2014/?utm_source=shortlink

Might give them a go but it would kill me handing money over to Diageo When GBB, Carlow, Dingle, Hooker, Blacks, Metalman, White Gypsie etc. are actually headquartered here and more deserving of support.

solomafioso

Considering Breo was pish, and their 'special brews' weren't great (I remember the toucan one being very similar to Beamish), I'm not going to hold my breath.

Voting with my wallet (and tastebuds) and sticking with McGargles. Lovely stuff.

BeerNut

squonk wrote: »

Guinness are launching their own range of Craft Beers

Every commentator seems to be saying this and it's baseless. I was talking to some of the Diageo people behind this earlier this evening and they are not in any way trying to pretend these are craft or micro-brewed beers. They're full production runs on the big James's Gate kit. The initial specs were handed down to the brewers by the management.

They recognise that there's a market for different flavours and different products in Irish beer that's quite new, and yes they're going after a piece of that. But not by pretending that what they do is "craft".

squonk

I liked Toucan actually. Back in my less beer-savvy days I thought it was much better than regular Guinness but I still like Beamish. Beamish is a bit light though. I wouldn't mind tasting Toucan now though that my tastes have evolved.

squonk

BeerNut wrote: »

Every commentator seems to be saying this and it's baseless. I was talking to some of the Diageo people behind this earlier this evening and they are not in any way trying to pretend these are craft or micro-brewed beers. They're full production runs on the big James's Gate kit. The initial specs were handed down to the brewers by the management.

They recognise that there's a market for different flavours and different products in Irish beer that's quite new, and yes they're going after a piece of that. But not by pretending that what they do is "craft".

Interesting. I wish them luck then. The article pushed the 'craft' angle which was what I read. More variation is good alright. Hopefully though the Marketeers won't spin it into the New Diageo Craft Revolution though.

BeerNut

squonk wrote: »

Hopefully though the Marketeers won't spin it into the New Diageo Craft Revolution though.

I think they know that won't fly. So they're going with "we know everything about beer because 255 years", like that means anything either.

Ravelleman

BeerNut wrote: »

Every commentator seems to be saying this and it's baseless. I was talking to some of the Diageo people behind this earlier this evening and they are not in any way trying to pretend these are craft or micro-brewed beers. They're full production runs on the big James's Gate kit. The initial specs were handed down to the brewers by the management.

This is interesting. In comparison, for Smithwicks Pale Ale, they very much do push the 'craft' angle in their advertising with the slogan 'Craft brewed for a fuller taste', which aside from being a lacklustre marketing effort, is completely meaningless.

What's the difference here? The fact that one is a 'revolutionary', new pale ale and the other is porter/stout, the legacy of which by default belongs to Guinness and therefore doesn't require special marketing?

suicide_circus

If they're nice, I'll drink them, the "craft" marketing label is meaningless at this stage

BeerNut

Ravelleman wrote: »

porter/stout, the legacy of which by default belongs to Guinness and therefore doesn't require special marketing?

I reckon that's it, yes. The Smithwick's extensions are an attempt to revitalise a flagging brand with the C-word. Where as The Brewers Project is presented as Guinness's 255 years of expertise and its crack team of experimental brewers giving you -- the lucky drinker -- the benefit of their immense skill and vast legacy of know-how in a new and exciting way.

Also: :rolleyes:

BeerNut

suicide_circus wrote: »

the "craft" marketing label is meaningless at this stage

These don't have a "craft" marketing label. But yes, it largely is. We live in a post-craft world.

drumswan

Does this mean they have to press different buttons on the brewery control panel? Wow sign me up Diageo

rubadub

There was a documentary on guinness last night on TV3. There was plenty of dubious sounding stuff in it, if you do watch it prepare to be screaming at the TV.

It went on about the introduction of the nitrogen draught beer. I think some woman was making out that stout had to use a different gas as it "exploded into the glass" (or some phrase like that) if only using CO2, and created a huge head , but other beers would be OK.

It was interesting anyway, just to see the vast scale of things, sky high pallets of beer.

It also was saying in the old days pubs would have casks and guys would fill bottles from the cask and serve it that way. Showed pictures of lads with funnels doing it.

http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/662/83979/1/Inside+Guinness

says it was new

Inside Guinness, brand new TV3 documentary, tonight at 10pm on TV3

Step inside the largest stout brewery in the world - the famous Guinness Brewery in Dublin! This behind-the-scenes look at the factory, which pumps out more than 300 million pints each year, will show the process of harvesting, roasting and brewing to produce one of Ireland's favourite exports.

Tenzor07

A cynical attempt to try hitch a ride on the wave of popularity of craft beers from the giant British conglomerate..!
There massive marketing department and budget must have been on overtime to come up with these products...
If it's anything like the attempt Smithwicks pale ale made at getting into the "craft" market then it will be just overpriced pee that will fail just like Breo...

loyatemu

I've tried a few of the Smithwicks variations and they're all bland and pointless (not as bland as regular Smithwicks though which is like drinking nothing)

not in any hurry to try these Guinness brews if there's anything at all more interesting on offer.

solomafioso

It does sort of defeat the purpose of the 'craft' title when it's from a company that mass produces this stuff.

I suppose that curiosity will get the better of me, and I'll try one of them. But they better be as good if not better than the Dark Arts Porter (Trouble Brewing) or the Porterhouse one.

Glebee

If its nice ill drink it, if its not I wont. Same as any beer really.:)

drumswan

Saw this on the NHC forum and had a chuckle

BeerNut

Thing is, the brewers genuinely believe all the beers taste totally different from each other, even the Brewhouse series. Even though they're all brewed with pretty much the same grist, same yeast and the Guinness essence.

I've done a side-by-side blind tasting of Foreign Extra and Special Export and thought that, while there are slight differences, they are very very similar beers. I asked a James's Gate brewer last night what the difference was and he rhymed off a whole string of things: mash temps, hopping rates, fermentation regimes, starting and finishing gravities.

I wonder why they bother when, to the consumer, it comes out like the picture above.

Lovely Bloke

"to the consumer" who'd swear up and down O'Connell Street that he can tell the difference between the Macro Lagers, and "wouldn't drink that shíte Bavaria" but happily swills Heino?

You, me and the majority of people on this forum are not the target market here, I think.

BeerNut

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

You, me and the majority of people on this forum are not the target market here, I think.

Well yeah. The marketing bod I spoke to yesterday was pretty up front about that.

emco

Although not marketed as craft, these comments in the daily mail suggest they are approaching craft beer in a completely different manner to the past, such as the storm they created with Brewdog.

'I have to take my hat off to those guys because they are really invigorating the world of beer and we would love to co-exist with them, we are not looking to take them on.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2742570/Guinness-shows-bottle-new-beers-Brewing-giant-offer-two-creations-capitalise-booming-real-ale-market.html

Although launching them this weekend may overshadow any beers that come out of the craft beer festival with hype around them. Which is obviously a massive coincidence!

Tenzor07

Hmm...

An "expert"

Guinness’s head of innovation, Nick Curtis-Davis

and

but denied that Guinness was seeking to edge other smaller competitors out of the market.

"We are the Borg" springs to mind!

Ravelleman

The review is spectacular: "... something with a bit more refreshment...".

n97 mini

BeerNut wrote: »

I've done a side-by-side blind tasting of Foreign Extra and Special Export and thought that, while there are slight differences, they are very very similar beers.

I've had them side by side and they're hugely different! FES doesn't get a diacetyl rest and really benefits for it as it has a lovely sweet toffee flavour hints. It also gets a lot more hops to put it at about 65 IBU. SES is about 40 IBUs, diacetyl free and lacks complexity for it. Even though SES is slightly higher ABV, FES has more of everything else, which makes it a far better beer IMHO.

BeerNut

n97 mini wrote: »

I've had them side by side

Blind?

sarkozy

Anyone know who designed the labels?

BeerNut

Dunno but they're fairly closely based on old labels from their archive.

Ravelleman

The labels are pretty nice, I'll give them that. It probably took the combined power of several supercomputers to simulate the slightly blotchy, old-shtyle printing.

Turpentine

Ravelleman wrote: »

The labels are pretty nice, I'll give them that. It probably took the combined power of several supercomputers to simulate the slightly blotchy, old-shtyle printing.

Were they craft-supercomputers or macro-supercomputers though? The beer buying public deserves to know.

n97 mini

BeerNut wrote: »

Blind?

You don't need to have them blind to taste the considerable difference.

BeerNut

Well that's the point, isn't it? That "considerable difference" could be entirely illusory when there are visual clues. It's a very well documented phenomenon in beer and wine.

BaZmO*

BeerNut wrote: »

Well that's the point, isn't it? That "considerable difference" could be entirely illusory when there are visual clues. It's a very well documented phenomenon in beer and wine.

And lemonade! The first time I saw blind tasting was on a documentary years ago, and some people couldn't even tell the difference between 7-up and Coke.

dudara

I was at the launch event last night. I do like stouts and porters, but I'm not a big beer drinker in general.

To my limited tastes, both of the beers were decent. The Dublin Porter is lighter while the West Indies is spicier and heavier (approx 4% vs 6% IIRC). The funny thing is that Guinness are marketing these with images of bottles, whereas they intend to serve them on draught.

I did meet one of the brewers, who was so happy with the products. His enthusiasm was pretty infectious. Clearly he was enjoying what he was doing!

n97 mini

BeerNut wrote: »

Well that's the point, isn't it? That "considerable difference" could be entirely illusory when there are visual clues. It's a very well documented phenomenon in beer and wine.

It's the point of a blind taste test.

In a way it is blind, as both beers looks the same and it doesn't say anywhere on the label that one has diacetyl and the other doesn't, or that one is quite a bit more bitter than the other.

BeerNut

dudara wrote: »

Guinness are marketing these with images of bottles, whereas they intend to serve them on draught.

Only the Dublin Porter will be on draught.

n97 mini

Which I think will be the first to get the bullet, in the Irish market anyway, as sub 4% beers are a tough sell here. Or maybe the Smithwicks drinkers will drink it

Ravelleman

It'll be nice to have an alternative to regular Guinness for those pubs that still lack a craft option and yet consider themselves too upmarket for Beamish, even if it is a Guinness alternative to Guinness.

dudara

BeerNut wrote: »

Only the Dublin Porter will be on draught.

My bad! sorry

ThisRegard

loyatemu wrote: »

I've tried a few of the Smithwicks variations and they're all bland and pointless (not as bland as regular Smithwicks though which is like drinking nothing)

not in any hurry to try these Guinness brews if there's anything at all more interesting on offer.

I like their pale ale and their winter variation.