Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

mada999

Fescue wrote: »

They were making the point on Sunday Supplement this morning that teams are now targeting Gerrard. For me he isn't contributing enough in the role to justify shaping the team around him. He was by no means the big problem against West ham but I think we need to look to others now with Gerrard not being so integral to everything.

the problem is as i see it..

they opposition are dropping back, letting Gerrard getting the ball and then marking everything further up the pich.. he then has to try a hollywood pass or play it back to our defense knowing he's not gonna run at them.. midfield is a shambles...

Iused2likebusts

Mario should be keeping his head down instead of posting nonsense like that on twitter. No point in bringing attention to himself. I've been impressed with him so far and think we will see the best out of him when sturridge is back but we have just lost 2 league games leave childish stuff like that to the supporters.

mada999

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Just wait till Leicester play Liverpool, that's all I'm saying

was watching them against Chelsea and they should have got atleast a draw..

DVDM93

DVDM93 wrote: »

I am very upset.

As you can see I was very upset yesterday.

After today's results I am a little happier, particularly Leicester's result , a 5-3 beating against Manchester United.

However, I am still upset.

5starpool

mada999 wrote: »

was watching them against Chelsea and they should have got atleast a draw..

Thankfully we aren't playing them until December (although the same gameweek that we lost away to Hull last year) and promoted teams that start well have often run out of steam a bit by December. If we can get 11 points from our next 5 games we should hopefully be back on track a bit, and given the fixtures I'd hope we will at least get 11, and if we want to be in the top 4 we really should be getting 13 points. It's as kind a run (derby aside) as we have all season.

Everton H
West Brom H
QPR A
Hull H
Newcastle A

mav79

Chelsea today showed why they concede so little. The CB pairing very rarely get dragged out of position, always in tandem and leave the fullbacks to deal with problems in the width, the goal they conceeded was caused by Ivanovic going walkabout and leaving Schurle to defend. Until we sort out the way the team defends it doesn't matter who we have as the back two.
The idea of having your full backs forward all the time is great on paper but they only seem to hampering the attacking players that move wide to receive the ball. It looks very easy to mark players out of the game the way we are set up.

Yesterday there were numerous times where the CB's had the ball only for Gerrard, Lucas and Henderson to drop deep to collect the ball, and pass it between themselves. As much as Couthino loses the ball he at least has the balls to start an attack. Both Lovren and Sakho can make a pass they don't need a midfielder to take the ball off their toes to make a 5 yard pass. Yesterday showed just how much we miss a midfielder that can pick a ball up and drive at the opposition. Lack of trust across the whole team is a problem.

5starpool

5starpool wrote: »

Thankfully we aren't playing them until December (although the same gameweek that we lost away to Hull last year) and promoted teams that start well have often run out of steam a bit by December. If we can get 11 points from our next 5 games we should hopefully be back on track a bit, and given the fixtures I'd hope we will at least get 11, and if we want to be in the top 4 we really should be getting 13 points. It's as kind a run (derby aside) as we have all season.

Everton H
West Brom H
QPR A
Hull H
Newcastle A

Fcuk me 11 points the way we are playing and I'll be doing cartwheels tbh.

On current form I think we'll get 6/7

Good point about centre backs being dragged out of position. It happens so often with us

5starpool

rarnes1 wrote: »

Fcuk me 11 points the way we are playing and I'll be doing cartwheels tbh.

On current form I think we'll get 6/7

I agree, but I'm hoping that this form is indeed temporary. If we get even 8 points from those 5 games, that'll only be 14 points from 10 games which is really bad, and form from 2-3 years ago.

klose

If you're going to look ahead in the fixture and predict results you're going to have a bad time. One game at a time lads.

Demosthenese

mav79 wrote: »

Chelsea today showed why they concede so little. The CB pairing very rarely get dragged out of position, always in tandem and leave the fullbacks to deal with problems in the width, the goal they conceeded was caused by Ivanovic going walkabout and leaving Schurle to defend. Until we sort out the way the team defends it doesn't matter who we have as the back two.
The idea of having your full backs forward all the time is great on paper but they only seem to hampering the attacking players that move wide to receive the ball. It looks very easy to mark players out of the game the way we are set up.

Yesterday there were numerous times where the CB's had the ball only for Gerrard, Lucas and Henderson to drop deep to collect the ball, and pass it between themselves. As much as Couthino loses the ball he at least has the balls to start an attack. Both Lovren and Sakho can make a pass they don't need a midfielder to take the ball off their toes to make a 5 yard pass. Yesterday showed just how much we miss a midfielder that can pick a ball up and drive at the opposition. Lack of trust across the whole team is a problem.

There's a case for both in regards to attacking fullbacks - City like to have attacking fullbacks and Zabaletta is excellent at it whreras Chelsea like to sit tight and be patient enough against the bigger teams knowing they'll get a chance to score - against lesser teams they just steamroll them.

But i agree that Liverpool need to cop on regarding the positioning of the fullbacks mainly when we lose the ball. We've struggled to adapt in midfield with Gerard getting pressed like he has been recently - we've tried to bring Hendo/Lucas in to help the balance and it hasn't worked - Coutinho has been very hit and miss this season and thats the main problem - relying on fullbacks to carry a threat instead of the mids.

I don't think that Rodgers will ever go defensive style like Mourinho does so we gotta live with what we have.

BenEadir

Fescue wrote: »

This really has nothing to do with the allegiance of the supporters who tweeted it. I don't think anyone is making this an anti-united thing. It's just pretty sickening when a player gets that kind of vitriol from racist scum.

I think it's great that a simple and free social media service which limits its output to 140 characters is able to lure these fascist wanker$ into revealing themselves in public. I regret that Balo or anyone else is hurt as a result but thankfully the police can quite easily track down these idiots and ensure they are prosecuted the extent of the law.

5live

Demosthenese wrote: »

There's a case for both in regards to attacking fullbacks - City like to have attacking fullbacks and Zabaletta is excellent at it whreras Chelsea like to sit tight and be patient enough against the bigger teams knowing they'll get a chance to score - against lesser teams they just steamroll them.

But i agree that Liverpool need to cop on regarding the positioning of the fullbacks mainly when we lose the ball. We've struggled to adapt in midfield with Gerard getting pressed like he has been recently - we've tried to bring Hendo/Lucas in to help the balance and it hasn't worked - Coutinho has been very hit and miss this season and thats the main problem - relying on fullbacks to carry a threat instead of the mids.

I don't think that Rodgers will ever go defensive style like Mourinho does so we gotta live with what we have.

Do both City fullbacks go forward at the one time as ours are encouraged to do, though?

5starpool

klose wrote: »

If you're going to look ahead in the fixture and predict results you're going to have a bad time. One game at a time lads.

Meh, something to do. I can't think back on the last few games without getting annoyed, so I'll look forward to the inevitable rosy future (it's inevitable, ok?)

Fescue

5live wrote: »

Do both City fullbacks go forward at the one time as ours are encouraged to do, though?

Now my knowledge of tactics is pretty limited but what Liverpool seem to do is the two full backs push into midfield, Gerrard then drops in between the two centre backs who push wide. Leaving 3 at the back. That seems to be the way we set up in possession. Perhaps you need the guy in Gerrards role to be more defensively strong.

garra

Cartman78 wrote: »

Would be interested to see an example of a white footballer getting racially abused ???

Zidane? Cantona?

mav79

I always thought City's fullbacks bomb forward from deep compared to the way we are set up with our fullbacks starting on the halfway line static. The way we are set up is not creating an outlet from defence or are they overlapping the attackers.

Harry Palmr

rarnes1 wrote: »

Good point about centre backs being dragged out of position. It happens so often with us

Pretty much everything Danny Murphy highlighted can be applied to Liverpool at the moment. Lack of communication and discipline between the CBs and them and the DM.

The diamond formation is also a factor I think when the deepest midfielder is easily isolated (or just too slow) the CBs are exposed more quickly and its mayhem before anyone else can get back to cut off the attack.

Ah just seen that Martin Kelly got the assist (after a fashion!) for Palace second goal.

Barely There

Our three main competitors for Champions league position (Man Utd, Spurs, Everton) all lose today.

Turned a disastrous weekend into a merely disappointing one.

Time to kick on next week in the Merseyside Derby methinks.

mav79

Fescue wrote: »

Now my knowledge of tactics is pretty limited but what Liverpool seem to do is the two full backs push into midfield, Gerrard then drops in between the two centre backs who push wide. Leaving 3 at the back. That seems to be the way we set up in possession. Perhaps you need the guy in Gerrards role to be more defensively strong.

I think the problem is you have Gerrard dropping in between the CB's but then you have Lucas or Henderson dropping deep to offer an outlet and you still have four players all in front of the opposition. Its too easy to mark against. None of the four players are going to carry the ball into the opposition half.

Demosthenese

5live wrote: »

Do both City fullbacks go forward at the one time as ours are encouraged to do, though?

You'd have to ask Brendan if they are supposed to! Same with asking why the centre halves grappling with players instead of winning the header. Its keystone cops stuff.

Demosthenese

mav79 wrote: »

I think the problem is you have Gerrard dropping in between the CB's but then you have Lucas or Henderson dropping deep to offer an outlet and you still have four players all in front of the opposition. Its too easy to mark against. None of the four players are going to carry the ball into the opposition half.

None of the 4 players ever carried the ball into the opposition half last season and it wasn't a problem.

klose

Demosthenese wrote: »

You'd have to ask Brendan if they are supposed to! Same with asking why the centre halves grappling with players instead of winning the header. Its keystone cops stuff.

While we play the diamond the full backs pretty much have to push up high to provide width/ an outlet seeing as we don't play wingers in the system.

Harry Palmr

Demosthenese wrote: »

You'd have to ask Brendan if they are supposed to! Same with asking why the centre halves grappling with players instead of winning the header. Its keystone cops stuff.

klose wrote: »

While we play the diamond the full backs pretty much have to push up high to provide width/ an outlet seeing as we don't play wingers in the system.

It depends on how attacking you want to be, clearly both FBs charging up field can overload the opposition due to pace but clearly giving away possession cheaply high up the pitch immediately puts the emphasis exactly in the other direction and the attacking side are suddenly caught short of cover, so maybe Liverpool do need to be a bit more circumspect in this regard OR play three centre backs and use the FBs as wing backs and have one less body through the middle.

Something like this.

Jesus Wept

wgwtl, wgwtl, wgwtl, wgwtl!!

Francie Barrett

5starpool wrote: »

Thankfully we aren't playing them until December (although the same gameweek that we lost away to Hull last year) and promoted teams that start well have often run out of steam a bit by December. If we can get 11 points from our next 5 games we should hopefully be back on track a bit, and given the fixtures I'd hope we will at least get 11, and if we want to be in the top 4 we really should be getting 13 points. It's as kind a run (derby aside) as we have all season.

Everton H
West Brom H
QPR A
Hull H
Newcastle A

Need to be getting 12 points from 15 there to keep us in the hunt for top 4.

mav79

Demosthenese wrote: »

None of the 4 players ever carried the ball into the opposition half last season and it wasn't a problem.

Tbh I thought it was a problem last year, only an amazing attack covered up a lot of problems in the team.

Iused2likebusts

Everton were very good defensively last year with 2 full backs that are even more attacking than ours. However they played 2 dms in mccarthy and barry. Having a shocker defensively this year with the same system though.

DVDM93

With all the deserved questioning of his place in the starting XI I'd like to take this moment to day I love Steven Gerrard. He is and will always be my favourite Liverpool player. He was there when I first started supporting Liverpool and the memories he's given me since will never be forgotten, particularly in 2005. He wasn't even in his prime when I first started supporting Liverpool and the fact that he is now in decline reminds me that life is short and I'm getting older Liverpool and Gerrard have grown in to one and are as important to one another, one is not thought of without the other. Whatever happens Stevie, whether you're dropped or not, I love you and have loved supporting you and will continue to do so until the sad day comes that you decide to hang up your boots and whatever you decide to do after. I'm not drunk, it will be a sad day when our captain isn't leading out our team, and it's inevitably coming soon

Hold out for one more day x

~Rebel~

T-K-O wrote: »

Yeah, BR is coaching the mistakes into the CB's

I think it's more a case of the system leaving them open far more often, leaving them under far more pressure. Enough vulnerabilities and cracks will always appear.

I'd be willing to bet that if Mascherano were in that gerrard role, tucking in between the two CB's, there would be far less incidences where the CB's were left exposed and we would concede far less goals.