How much of an impact do supplements have

evo2000

I was just wondering since theres supplements these days for everything under the sun, do most supplements give you a clear cut advantage over someone not using them or is it just a meager difference ?

Blacktie.

No. Supplements are there to help out where your diet is lacking. If you're looking for a serious advantage then you're talking pharmaceuticals.

generic2012

mostly no difference

nice_guy80

Unless training at an elite level to help aid recovery, then not much.

NIMAN

I personally think that the multi-billion pound supplement market is a bit of a scam.
Do they really improve people's health? If at all, probably nothing compared to eating well.

Fall into the same category as those yoghurts etc with their billions of good bacteria, which they fail to tell you die in your stomach acid.

Rough Sleeper

Creatine and caffeine confer a slight but statistically significant increase in performance in certain areas. Apart from that there's not a whole lot of evidence to show that much of the other unrestricted stuff does a whole heap, though a select few chemicals show a degree of promise.

The Guvnor

An advantage can be hard to quantify.

At elite level many do use supplements to aid recovery and get the most from their training.

Convenience is a big factor - yes you can get protein and carbs from whole food sources but to drink them from time to time is more logical.

Therefore there is an advantage to supplementing.

Is it a scam? Once again hard to quantify - what exactly does scam mean?

For the most part the answer is no.

Yes things may not always be as per the label but no industry is above this as can be seen from the recent meat issues.

Meeting or matching expectations? If there is too much hype can a product live up to it? Who generated the hype? The company or online users?

You take supplements to supplement and they are not a substitute for a varied, balanced diet and a healthy active lifestyle.

In the case of protein it can be more cost effective to get additional protein from a tub rather than whole food sources - sad but true.

davmol

Id have to say convenience is themain reason i use Protein supplements.After a hard slog in the gym the last thing I want to do is prepare a meal.i take the shake first to quell any hunger and then after a little rest prepare the meal.

Hanley

Legit physiological non placebo based effects? Probably < 3% of an effect.

MaceFace

For me - Fish Oil, multivitamin, Creatine, Protein, Zinc/Mag, Glucosamine, BCAA - can all have worth.

JJayoo

Omega 3 should be taken

Vitamin D3 should be taken, since we live in Ireland

Whey is handy to have

I take the above

My parents are made take the below along with the d3 and omega 3

Curcumin is a good anti-inflam with huge cancer fighting properties

Vit K2 helps shuttle calcium into bones instead of accumulating in different parts of the body such as arteries.

Big Davey

MaceFace wrote: »

For me - Fish Oil, multivitamin, Creatine, Protein, Zinc/Mag, Glucosamine, BCAA - can all have worth.

Are all the products you mention sold individually ? Also what is BCAA ? I took creatine for a while but felt it affected my mood a bit. I am thinking of taking "no explode" what do you think of it ?
I am starting back training and want to ad to the berocca that I am taking so this thread is very interesting.
Thanks

Duck's hoop

Big Davey wrote: »

I took creatine for a while but felt it affected my mood a bit.

It did in my hoop. If your mood altered it wasn't the creatine.

I definitely rate Beta Alanine long term for lactic buffering. Fish oils, glucosamine are useful. And I've recently started with zma in desperation to help with sleep. It seems to improve quality. Definitely more refreshed. But it has also helped with some hypertonic issues. Much win.

evo2000

sound for replys lads, yeah i was thinking of gettin multi viatmins and omega 3 or would a multi vitamin do the job?
The only thing i use at the moment is Optimum gold whey protein

What do ye reckon is the best whey?

top madra

evo2000 wrote: »

What do ye reckon is the best whey?

The one you can afford.

JJayoo

I would check out myprotein for their impact whey, just as good quality as the more expensive brands and there is a 15% discount code (groupie15)

Alf Veedersane

JJayoo wrote: »

I would check out myprotein for their impact whey, just as good quality as the more expensive brands and there is a 15% discount code (groupie15)

Mate nearly blew most of the €75 voucher he had for Holland and Barrett on their protein.

My good deed was to send him to MyProtein and BulkPowders.

Alf: making things better by caring.

evo2000

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Mate nearly blew most of the €75 voucher he had for Holland and Barrett on their protein.

My good deed was to send him to MyProtein and BulkPowders.

Alf: making things better by caring.

A truely heartwarming story alf! haha Ill check out them places, optimum nutrition is doing the job but its 65 bucks!

Alf Veedersane

evo2000 wrote: »

A truely heartwarming story alf! haha Ill check out them places, optimum nutrition is doing the job but its 65 bucks!

I always went for ON whey, but mostly cos I got deals on them online.

But MyProtein and BulkPowders have been just as good at a fraction of the price.

Both at about €44 for 2.5kg of flavoured whey including delivery.

JJayoo

But in H+B he could have gotten 2400g for 159 euro.....

http://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=4006&prodid=5837&cid=47

evo2000

JJayoo wrote: »

But in H+B he could have gotten 2400g for 159 euro.....

http://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=4006&prodid=5837&cid=47

What the **** lmao id say you d nearly need to take out a small mortgage to go shoppin there lol

Alf Veedersane

JJayoo wrote: »

But in H+B he could have gotten 2400g for 159 euro.....

http://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=4006&prodid=5837&cid=47

I have the same voucher courtesy of my heroic efforts last Sunday

So far I got some Omega 3 and Magnesium Citrate out of it. ZMA can such my balls.

evo2000

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I always went for ON whey, but mostly cos I got deals on them online.

But MyProtein and BulkPowders have been just as good at a fraction of the price.

Both at about €44 for 2.5kg of flavoured whey including delivery.

Yeah just having a root thru there site, they look good value! ill order a small tub first see how i get on with it, be grand to be saving almost 30 quid on protein tho! if its as good as ON

Alf Veedersane

evo2000 wrote: »

 if its as good as ON

ON isn't made by an alchemist. It's all the same, by and large.

evo2000

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

ON isn't made by an alchemist. It's all the same, by and large.

Ah yeah but quality wise i mean, ive seen some of my friends buy some cheap stuff and you could nearly plaster the house with it! or the bags of polish "protien" sugar 20 quid for 2.5 kg! you can buy at the local supp store.

Alf Veedersane

evo2000 wrote: »

Ah yeah but quality wise i mean, ive seen some of my friends buy some cheap stuff and you could nearly plaster the house with it! or the bags of polish "protien" sugar 20 quid for 2.5 kg! you can buy at the local supp store.

Buying ON is like spending £25 mullion on Adam Lallana when Toni Kroos was available for £20 million.

Hanley

JJayoo wrote: »

But in H+B he could have gotten 2400g for 159 euro.....

http://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=4006&prodid=5837&cid=47

That can't be right?

Alf Veedersane

All the Maximuscle stuff seems to be a ridiculous price but that's ridiculous^2

Big Davey

Duck's hoop wrote: »

It did in my hoop. If your mood altered it wasn't the creatine.

I definitely rate Beta Alanine long term for lactic buffering. Fish oils, glucosamine are useful. And I've recently started with zma in desperation to help with sleep. It seems to improve quality. Definitely more refreshed. But it has also helped with some hypertonic issues. Much win.

Coffee can alter people's moods correct ? So why not creatine ? Stick that in your hoop pal.

Big Davey

Duck's hoop wrote: »

It did in my hoop. If your mood altered it wasn't the creatine.

I definitely rate Beta Alanine long term for lactic buffering. Fish oils, glucosamine are useful. And I've recently started with zma in desperation to help with sleep. It seems to improve quality. Definitely more refreshed. But it has also helped with some hypertonic issues. Much win.

Read this hoopy it's the first thing I found on Google the inter web is full of it.
http://www.creatine-monohydrate.org/creatine-and-anger.htm

Alf Veedersane

Big Davey wrote: »

the inter web is full of it.

This is true, at least.

Duck's hoop

Big Davey wrote: »

Stick that in your hoop pal.

It's a long shot, but you didn't find it made you a scorpy wee wasp by any chance?

Big Davey

Duck's hoop wrote: »

It's a long shot, but you didn't find it made you a scorpy wee wasp by any chance?

Is a wee wasp anything like a little wasp ? If so you could be right :-) I will try the creatine again in coming weeks and touch base with you again pal :-)

JJayoo

Big Davey wrote: »

Coffee can alter people's moods correct ? So why not creatine ? Stick that in your hoop pal.

That's like saying alcohol can alter people's mood so why not potatoes. Creatine will have no affect on a persons mood except for the disappointment when they don't see those advertised gains

Tar.Aldarion

Not really an advantage, take them if you feel you aren't getting something.

For me that might be a tablet that has omega 3 + D3 and then another B12 one but that is to get necessary vitamins.

.ak

A good multivit made from real veg extracts I find helps you from getting sick if you're training hard. I've taken Triads and Opt-men, both seem to have the same effect, feel worn down if I don't take them when training a lot.

SuprSi

What is the point of taking a vitamin supplement that has way over the RDA of certain vitamins? Just looking at the nutritional info on the Triads...

200% of Vitamin A
833% Vitamin C
250% Vitamin D
670% Vitamin E
8333% Vitamin B12

Surely most of that will be wasted on the vast majority of people?

Hanley

SuprSi wrote: »

What is the point of taking a vitamin supplement that has way over the RDA of certain vitamins? Just looking at the nutritional info on the Triads...

200% of Vitamin A
833% Vitamin C
250% Vitamin D
670% Vitamin E
8333% Vitamin B12

Surely most of that will be wasted on the vast majority of people?

Look up how RDA is defined...

Alf Veedersane

SuprSi wrote: »

What is the point of taking a vitamin supplement that has way over the RDA of certain vitamins? Just looking at the nutritional info on the Triads...

200% of Vitamin A
833% Vitamin C
250% Vitamin D
670% Vitamin E
8333% Vitamin B12

Surely most of that will be wasted on the vast majority of people?

An actual RDA will differ from person to person.

The RDA on supplement labels is more like a minimum.

Mellor

SuprSi wrote: »

What is the point of taking a vitamin supplement that has way over the RDA of certain vitamins? Just looking at the nutritional info on the Triads...

200% of Vitamin A
833% Vitamin C
250% Vitamin D
670% Vitamin E
8333% Vitamin B12

Surely most of that will be wasted on the vast majority of people?

RDA's are guideline minimum targets, not optimum ranges

.ak

Not to mention RDA are actually quite dated. Some products are banned in Ireland for having an excessive amount of B12 in them, when in fact the number is based on a RDA that is very much dated and as others have said, a minimum guideline.

SuprSi

Hanley wrote: »

Look up how RDA is defined...

Ok, had to take this advice;

Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDA), the daily dietary intake level of a nutrient considered sufficient by the Food and Nutrition Board to meet the requirements of 97.5% of healthy individuals in each life-stage and sex group. It is calculated based on the EAR and is usually approximately 20% higher than the EAR

The key points are sufficient and 97.5% of healthy individuals. I realise this is still a very broad definition as I'm sure everyone has different RDA requirements, but surely 6/8 times the RDA is pointless, let alone 80 times? Could one healthy individual really require that much more or less than another?

I'm just curious as I see similar things in Berocca and always thought it was daft having such high levels of vitamins/minerals.

I'm looking at my Boots vitamins here
it says it has over 1000% RDA for some of the vitamin B stuff
jaysus

Sometimes people ask, “why does my vitamin have 1000% of something, don’t I only need 100%?”

RDA

The RDA is the Recommended Daily Allowance. This is the minimum needed to not cause disease. This is not the amount needed to be healthy.

TUL

The TUL is the Tolerable Upper Limit which is the most a person can have
without side effects.

The Truth

Most people fall in between the RDA and TUL. Each person has different needs based on genetics, lifestyle and current health. Your vitamin may say it has 1000% of something but that is a 1000% of the bare minimum. Your body may need 3000%, it all depends on your needs. Many vitamins are water soluble which means the excess is washed out in the urine. So if you only need 900% the extra 100% will simply be flushed out.

Guess that sums it up

http://inwoodchiropractic.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/why-does-my-vitamin-say-1000/

Blacktie.

Isn't the uptake of vitamin B really low and that's why they put so much in? Everything you don;t use just passes through anyway.

Alf Veedersane

Well, I just used up the last of my vouchers and I'll be getting in about a bajillion percent of vitamins A-W (the vouchers didn't cover X, Y and Z) so I'll report back on the ill-effects in about 50 days or so.

If I'm still alive, obvz.

Mellor

SuprSi wrote: »

Ok, had to take this advice;

The key points are sufficient and 97.5% of healthy individuals. I realise this is still a very broad definition as I'm sure everyone has different RDA requirements, but surely 6/8 times the RDA is pointless, let alone 80 times? Could one healthy individual really require that much more or less than another?.

RDA = minimum required to function

In some cases exceeding the RDA might be pointless if there's no benefit beyond functioning.
In other cases, an optimal level could exceed basic functioning by quite a bit.

Tar.Aldarion

.ak wrote: »

Not to mention RDA are actually quite dated. Some products are banned in Ireland for having an excessive amount of B12 in them, when in fact the number is based on a RDA that is very much dated and as others have said, a minimum guideline.

I'd be fecked so, my b12 supplement is ~17000%

Blacktie. wrote: »

Isn't the uptake of vitamin B really low and that's why they put so much in? Everything you don;t use just passes through anyway.

Yes, it actually gets worse as you get older, for instanvce the majority of people in their 50s and over can't even absorb enough B12 from any food source any more and it is recommended they supplement. Will have to dig out where I saw that.

.ak

Yes, and people with diseases like crohne's can't absorb B12 at all, or very little of it. My girlfriend has crohnes and she needs to take a lot of different supplements for B12.

JJayoo

RDA of vitamin C is 60mg and this is the amount I need to consume so I won't die from scurvy, which would be good to know if I was a sailor in the 1600's

Alf Veedersane

JJayoo wrote: »

RDA of vitamin C is 60mg and this is the amount I need to consume so I won't die from scurvy, which would be good to know if I was a sailor in the 1600's

I know of a guy who managed to get scurvy in college.

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I know of a guy who managed to get scurvy in college.

I heard a tale of a fellow who tried living mostly on porridge in college to save money and got scurvy