miserable bastard farmers

whupdedo

Just watching the news their now, a tillage farmer was on complaining, theirs no money out of crops, they're selling crops just a loss per hectare.

Earlier in the week they were protesting outside supermarkets about the price of beef, theirs no money out of beef, they're selling beef at a loss.

Farmers aren't able to sell excess fodder because everyone had a great year and now the fodder is in abundance and it's being sold at cost price.

Jesus is their no end to their moaning, i run a business and am just about threading water, but if the day ever comes that I start making losses, i go out of business.

solomafioso

So, taxi drivers, deh foreigners / immigrunts, deh gards and now farmers? Well, AH is the place that just keeps on giving.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

I hear ya. Fcukers keep sending me bloody game requests. "Water my crops" F#ck off!

DrGreenthumb

Famers sow what

WesternZulu

Blame the supermarkets, and to a lesser extent consumers, who are not prepared to pay the true cost of food...try living in a world without an efficient food supply and come back to me about famers being moaners!

The Backwards Man

First rule of running a business in Ireland;

Only idiots admit that they are making money.

Speak Now

There you go there now.

same ol sh1te

I've yet to hear a farmer say they actually made a few quid, always crying poverty. They wouldn't be at it if they weren't at least making a living

Banjo String

In defence of farmers


Moo.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

We need less farmers cultivating the same current amount of land.

dar100

Horse sihte

Nodin

whupdedo wrote: »

Just watching the news their now, a tillage farmer was on complaining, theirs no money out of crops, they're selling crops just a loss per hectare.

Earlier in the week they were protesting outside supermarkets about the price of beef, theirs no money out of beef, they're selling beef at a loss.

Farmers aren't able to sell excess fodder because everyone had a great year and now the fodder is in abundance and it's being sold at cost price.

Jesus is their no end to their moaning, i run a business and am just about threading water, but if the day ever comes that I start making losses, i go out of business.

I wonder if all the handouts, single farm payments and grants were taken off them what would happen,they'd be heading for the hay barn with short ropes in their droves if they had to survive in the real world

Are Farmers single mothers?

takamichinoku

whupdedo wrote: »

Earlier in the week they were protesting outside supermarkets about the price of beef, theirs no money out of beef, they're selling beef at a loss.

They get pretty shafted here, every right to complain about selling it for nothing and then having to buy the same thing for increasingly high prices in the shop; even if the main problem is that they've collectively got **** all bargaining power once someone's willing to sell.

whupdedo wrote: »

Jesus is their no end to their moaning, i run a business and am just about threading water, but if the day ever comes that I start making losses, i go out of business.

I wonder if all the handouts, single farm payments and grants were taken off them what would happen,they'd be heading for the hay barn with short ropes in their droves if they had to survive in the real world

It's a lifestyle though, quite a lot of them are fairly institutionalised. You could potentially be destroying rural Ireland in the same way Thatcher ruined the north of England by not having a process like that.

A lot of the reasoning behind the grants and all that, as far as I can see, is to slowly remove the small and inefficient farmers from the system. The ones who are business savvy will be able to find all the different grants to keep themselves afloat until the average farmer is significantly larger than the current average and therefore much more capable of negotiating with the factories and whathaveyou. I say this as the son of an extremely inefficient small farmer who has hardly ever heard the word "profit" be associated with the place outside of an insurance payoff.




Might write a more well thought out post later, or maybe not.

Aongus Von Bismarck

When I can buy a whole chicken thats been reared, butchered, packaged and transported to the supermarket for less than a fiver you know there's something dodgy going on.

user2012

Bit of a ****ty comment to make about going out to the hay shed with a short rope. I know a few who went down that road because they felt they had no other option & it's not something to be light hearted about, it's actually a very real & serious dark cloud hanging over many people.

Anyway, it's not as simple as growing a few crops & selling them on. Or producing milk or fattening cattle. There's huge overheads & massive man hours put in to run a farm. All it takes is one bad year to **** the whole thing up for a few years & when you're working off tight profit margins you're going to fight for anything you can get.

It's time for consolidation in the industry. It's not a niche market so there is no room for the small players.
Ireland is a small country, we only need a few dozen big farms.

whupdedo

WesternZulu wrote: »

Blame the supermarkets, and to a lesser extent consumers, who are not prepared to pay the true cost of food...try living in a world without an efficient food supply and come back to me about famers being moaners!

Consumers will pay the lowest they can get for goods, that's down to factories and supermarkets, consumers can't be blamed for that, we'd pay the true cost of food only when we stop subsidising farmers to run their business

whupdedo

user2012 wrote: »

Anyway, it's not as simple as growing a few crops & selling them on. Or producing milk or fattening cattle. There's huge overheads & massive man hours put in to run a farm. All it takes is one bad year to **** the whole thing up for a few years & when you're working off tight profit margins you're going to fight for anything you can get.

So much the same as most businesses is what you're saying

WesternZulu

whupdedo wrote: »

Consumers will pay the lowest they can get for goods, that's down to factories and supermarkets, consumers can't be blamed for that, we'd pay the true cost of food only when we stop subsidising farmers to run their business

Eh, if famers were paid the true value of their produce then there would be no need for subsidies. Consumers have gotten used to cheap food so subsidies are therefore needed to keep farming enterprises viable.

Reggie.

whupdedo wrote: »

Consumers will pay the lowest they can get for goods, that's down to factories and supermarkets, consumers can't be blamed for that, we'd pay the true cost of food only when we stop subsidising farmers to run their business

Ain't that the truth

Tail Docker

whupdedo wrote: »

Just watching the news their now, a tillage farmer was on complaining, theirs no money out of crops, they're selling crops just a loss per hectare.

Earlier in the week they were protesting outside supermarkets about the price of beef, theirs no money out of beef, they're selling beef at a loss.

Farmers aren't able to sell excess fodder because everyone had a great year and now the fodder is in abundance and it's being sold at cost price.

Jesus is their no end to their moaning, i run a business and am just about threading water, but if the day ever comes that I start making losses, i go out of business.

I wonder if all the handouts, single farm payments and grants were taken off them what would happen,they'd be heading for the hay barn with short ropes in their droves if they had to survive in the real world

As a former Farmer, who jacked it in as being "for the birds", I agree. Most of them live in cuckoo land. Mines rented out to "a bird". I remember standing outside a meat factory, protesting with a load of other farmers about the shyte prices..then I had a think on and decided I'd get into a business where I set my own price, instead of whinging at someone I'd never change.

whupdedo

WesternZulu wrote: »

Eh, if famers were paid the true value of their produce then there would be no need for subsidies. Consumers have gotten used to cheap food so subsidies are therefore needed to keep farming enterprises viable.

We're going in roundabouts, if farmers weren't getting subsidies they wouldn't sell their stock and produce for less than it costs to provide it

takamichinoku

Deleted User wrote: »

It's time for consolidation in the industry. It's not a niche market so there is no room for the small players.
Ireland is a small country, we only need a few dozen big farms.

Few dozen might be a bit extreme, but that's what's happening anyway, it's just extremely gradual. I'd even say it's a bit slower than it should be but you're talking about changing a whole culture that's been very heavily ingrained into people. The current generation of young farmers would largely have been raised by men who saw no other possible lifestyle for them at all, it might be 10-20 years before you start to see the market forces swing at all in the farmer's favour.



A farmer barely getting by is a whole different kettle of fish to most people too, you're talking about crazy man hours and never having any clear idea of what even the near future holds. Let them have their moan, a lot of them barely get the time for even that.

Reggie.

WesternZulu wrote: »

Eh, if famers were paid the true value of their produce then there would be no need for subsidies. Consumers have gotten used to cheap food so subsidies are therefore needed to keep farming enterprises viable.

Exactly it's the consumers that are getting the subsidies. Farmers need them to keep afloat because the normal Joe soap would starve if they had to pay the true cost of producing food

They never have a good year do they?

Harry Angstrom

Deleted User wrote: »

They never have a good year do they?

It's either too hot or too cold. It's either raining too much or not raining enough.

P_1

In fairness they are getting the living shoite squeezed out of their margins. Now I'm not sure if protesting about this is the most effective solution or if there is any more streamlining that can be done within farming to lower their operating costs.

tomwaterford

whupdedo wrote: »

So much the same as most businesses is what you're saying

though not as bad as other businesses....rely heavily on the weather....a nights rain could very easily wipe your years crop ijncome (rapeseed oil)

indeed it is not unheard of for crops in parts of Ireland not to be able to be harvested due to wet weather ...not a problem this year....of all forms of farming...tillage is one that geos broke most often and leads to what you said yourself....farmers doing away with themselves:rolleyes::rolleyes:

the biggest problem is grain is sold as at international price....so a tiny international oversupply (caused by good years as this!!) will cause a large price drop....in a low margin industry this will lead to losses very quickly....imgine having 2 million euro of turnover and only able to take wages of <300 a week (if going well)/after paying down loans/tax/machinery costs every year

tough I will agree some are awlful miserable ould basstarrds

user2012

whupdedo wrote: »

So much the same as most businesses is what you're saying

To be honest I don't know of any other business that has the same working conditions as a farmer. The hours are horrendous, the work itself can often be back breaking, the environment can be very dangerous, I can go on.

This isn't a competition though as to who has the worst occupation. In the OP you seem to think its nothing but moaning from farmers, & in a sense youre is right. But there's a harsh reality many don't know anything about. It's not all fat cheques from single farm payments or the milk cheque.

takamichinoku

Tail Docker wrote: »

As a former Farmer, who jacked it in as being "for the birds", I agree. Most of them live in cuckoo land. Mines rented out to "a bird".

Was there much in the way of familial pressure working against you? Sentimentality too?
Always interested in hearing from a farmer who left it all by choice.

Deleted User wrote: »

They never have a good year do they?

Ach, they do but you're not going to have a good year that's good in every respect.
Plus, a lot of farmer moaning is spillover from the farming community. It's not a field where your peers are going to be particularly encouraging of you going on about how great you're doing. The praise and compliments are expressed in a significantly milder manner, like.

whitebriar

whupdedo wrote: »

Just watching the news their now, a tillage farmer was on complaining, theirs no money out of crops, they're selling crops just a loss per hectare.

Earlier in the week they were protesting outside supermarkets about the price of beef, theirs no money out of beef, they're selling beef at a loss.

Farmers aren't able to sell excess fodder because everyone had a great year and now the fodder is in abundance and it's being sold at cost price.

Jesus is their no end to their moaning, i run a business and am just about threading water, but if the day ever comes that I start making losses, i go out of business.

I wonder if all the handouts, single farm payments and grants were taken off them what would happen,they'd be heading for the hay barn with short ropes in their droves if they had to survive in the real world

I see,how would you be if you ran out of food? Because without it you die and you're complaining that the people working hard to put it there for you want a fair return for their work?
You should be thanking them.
Honestly some people.

tomwaterford

whupdedo wrote: »

We're going in roundabouts, if farmers weren't getting subsidies they wouldn't sell their stock and produce for less than it costs to provide it

they would though as many wont have facilities to house there animals/grain over the winter...
and besides it is cashflow not profit what will keep a business afloat in short term....no point in having load of money tied up in stock when the bank comes looking for payment...or when other creditors come looking for payment...it is not realistic to say...emm hold on a few weeks until the prices rises

Ditch

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

When I can buy a whole chicken .....

Chicken? You got money to pay for it ....?

Tail Docker

Deleted User wrote: »

They never have a good year do they?

No, they don't. Mainly as they never do. And if they do, the next year takes it away from them. Try it, it's a very hard way of life.

greysides

Reggie. wrote: »

Exactly it's the consumers that are getting the subsidies. Farmers need them to keep afloat because the normal Joe soap would starve if they had to pay the true cost of producing food

That's exactly why subsidies were started in the first place after the second world war. The populace of the towns could not afford food at cost price.

Governments subsidised food production so people could eat.

whupdedo

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

It's either too hot or too cold. It's either raining too much or not raining enough.

This is what I mean,I worked for a farmer last week, all he talked about was "the price of cattle is well back, theirs nothing out of it " I was as fcukin depressed as him by the end of the week,
but through it all here he was supervising the building of a massive machinery shed to store all his gear in through out the winter

tomwaterford

Tail Docker wrote: »

No, they don't. Mainly as they never do. And if they do, the next year takes it away from them. Try it, it's a very hard way of life.

I was once helping a large tillage farmer....who told me in had a very good year
he said when added into reality...it covered the losses for the previous four years...that is how it works in farming...always trying to keep going for the good year....then when that comes,..all is forgot of bad years and rinse and repeat

Tail Docker

whupdedo wrote: »

This is what I mean,I worked for a farmer last week, all he talked about was "the price of cattle is well back, theirs nothing out of it " I was as fcukin depressed as him by the end of the week,
but through it all here he was supervising the building of a massive machinery shed to store all his gear in through out the winter

Funded by the local bank, which will have him up at 6 for the rest of his life.

takamichinoku

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

It's either too hot or too cold. It's either raining too much or not raining enough.

You do understand there's a balance needed? Specific types of weather have to occur at specific parts of the year? It's unbelievably stressful and you'll rarely get conditions where it isn't going to be raising some concern.

WesternZulu

Are there honestly people out there who walk into Tesco and pick up 2l of milk for little over €1.50, 0.5kg of lean minced beef for less than €4, and a pack of potatoes for €1 and walk out of the shop thinking 'Jesus them farmers are doing well for themselves'?

tomwaterford

greysides wrote: »

That's exactly why subsidies were started in the first place after the second world war. The populace of the towns could not afford food at cost price.

Governments subsidised food production so people could eat.

but is the day for subsidies drawing to a close???
with the increased amount of crops etc harvested to the acre....will this not bring down the cost price??

humbert

whupdedo wrote: »

Jesus is their no end to their moaning, i run a business and am just about threading water, but if the day ever comes that I start making losses, i go out of business.

That's no easy feat.

B.A._Baracus

The Backwards Man wrote: »

First rule of running a business in Ireland;

Only idiots admit that they are making money.

100% spot on.

Kovu

WesternZulu wrote: »

Are there honestly people out there who walk into Tesco and pick up 2l of milk for little over €1.50, 0.5kg of lean minced beef for less than €4, and a pack of potatoes for €1 and walk out of the shop thinking 'Jesus them farmers are doing well for themselves'?

Not to mention the price slash wars every year. Remember the 6c veg last Christmas?

Reggie.

.Kovu. wrote: »

Not to mention the price slash wars every year. Remember the 6c veg last Christmas?

Oh yeah but it's easily done.....producing veg at that price.
People hardly think the supermarket took the hit on them offers

P_1

tomwaterford wrote: »

but is the day for subsidies drawing to a close???
with the increased amount of crops etc harvested to the acre....will this not bring down the cost price??

I'd have thought that would just bring the selling price down while leaving the cost price as it is meaning it becomes not worth the effort to grow the crop.

whupdedo

Tail Docker wrote: »

Funded by the local bank, which will have him up at 6 for the rest of his life.

We all make choices in life, I realise they work hard like all people running their own business, but unlike most people struggling today in private sector business, they can rely on the payments they get to fund their business

takamichinoku

.Kovu. wrote: »

Not to mention the price slash wars every year. Remember the 6c veg last Christmas?

From what I recall, Aldi and Lidl just sold at huge losses to get people in buying other things?

Tesco on the other hand...

Onthe3rdDay

I worked out one time how much one farmer was making after you took into consideration the amount of hours he worked (and I mean tough work) and cash actually in his hand after all expenses, and he was basically working for 4 euro an hour for a 65 hour week. Other farmers around would consider him lazy as he takes the odd weekend off with the wife :eek:

tomwaterford

P_1 wrote: »

I'd have thought that would just bring the selling price down while leaving the cost price as it is meaning it becomes not worth the effort to grow the crop.

AFAIK they usually price grain...ploughing sowing etc at a price per acre

and say if before it yielded 2 ton per acre...and now it is 3 ton per acre.....would this not leave its costs per ton lower??

Reggie.

tomwaterford wrote: »

AFAIK they usually price grain...ploughing sowing etc at a price per acre

and say if before it yielded 2 ton per acre...and now it is 3 ton per acre.....would this not leave its costs per ton lower??

Not with the price of diesel