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Murder hate crime (blacks kill whites)

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    #122
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
    Registered Users Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Isn't that what American liberals say about every conservative publication.

    I'm sure it is, I'm from Roscommon though.


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    #123
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Nodin wrote: »
    Is there any evidence of that outside of the right wing/racist internet news sites though?


    What evidence is there that Wilson is a racist or was racially motivated in shooting Brown...and yet there is reams and reams and ream of media either opening stating it or strongly implying it.


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    #124
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    If you were to go by some posters here you would think anti white racism doesn't exist.


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    #125
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sand wrote: »
    What evidence is there that Wilson is a racist or was racially motivated in shooting Brown...and yet there is reams and reams and ream of media either opening stating it or strongly implying it.

    Why are you asking me this on a thread that has nothing to do with the subject?


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    #126
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    woodoo wrote: »
    If you were to go by some posters here you would think anti white racism doesn't exist.

    Of course it does, human nature being as it is. That doesn't mean this incident is nessecarily related to it, however.


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    #127
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Nodin wrote: »
    Why are you asking me this on a thread that has nothing to do with the subject?

    Same standard of evidence should apply to avoid bias, right?


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    #128
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    In reference to the condition of the African Americans, it is fairly straightforward.

    Ah, so "Racism = Poverty = Crime" is only relevant to one race of people, but for other races not so much... ironically that could be view as itself a racist view.


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    #129
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'm saying that Jewish history is markedly different and I'm not going down a pointless Rabbit hole.

    Yes, avoid any discussing that may sway you to actually think outside the comfort zone of your own opinions.


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    #130
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »
    FPM is a conservative, xenophobic and racist publication. Wouldn't pay too much attention to it.

    Had never heard of it before, I'll add it to the list of things I won't bother reading.


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    #131
    creolebelle
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭creolebelle


    Sand wrote: »
    What evidence is there that Wilson is a racist or was racially motivated in shooting Brown...and yet there is reams and reams and ream of media either opening stating it or strongly implying it.
    look at the case
    Nodin wrote: »
    Why are you asking me this on a thread that has nothing to do with the subject?
    According to their logic black americans have no right to question brutal police tactics used in their communities because a racist black man might have attacked a white man
    jank wrote: »
    Ah, so "Racism = Poverty = Crime" is only relevant to one race of people, but for other races not so much... ironically that could be view as itself a racist view.
    Have you ever taken a sociology class or read any sociological texts?Its quite obvious that there is link between poverty and crime that is present in every country.


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    #132
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Ah, so "Racism = Poverty = Crime" is only relevant to one race of people, but for other races not so much... ironically that could be view as itself a racist view.


    If you don't want to discuss the issue of racism in America against the African American population, nobody is forcing you to post.


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    #133
    creolebelle
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭creolebelle


    Help!!!! wrote: »
    No of course not, the same as black/Irish are not the same as black Americans or British

    Oh ok. It seemed like you were judging black americans based on your experience with black britons
    jank wrote: »
    Much of that is correct, whereby proves my point that the simplistic nonsense that some people argue (racism = poverty = crime ) still holds sway to the more naive and usually have an agenda. There are many factors at play, including one which you allude to, community or in other words culture. Jews have always been fiercely community oriented people, have a deep value for education and a very strong work ethic. Polices pursued by the state even now have also damaged the black community a great deal even when a lot of these polices were designed to help them. These policies well meaning and sincere at the times have actually contributed to damage their incomes, wealth and educational levels.

    You totally ignored my points about systematic racism. Its slightly arrogant of you to lecture me about the problems of my own community.It seems like youre suggesting that black americans aren't as successful as jewish americans because we don't value education and have a poor work ethic. Thats incredibly insulting if thats what your are suggesting. Black americans have been hard working since we arrived here 400 years ago. The US wouldnt have survived without us. We have also valued education. Many of us died trying to educate ourselves and our children. It was grilled into me that I have to be twice as good in order to be successful in the country because of the color my skin. As I have gotten older Ive seen how true it is.


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    #134
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    If you don't want to discuss the issue of racism in America against the African American population, nobody is forcing you to post.

    Its OK to admit that your wrong sometimes Nodin.

    Anyway, this topic is about racism against white people in america until people change the topic. Maybe you can start your own thread on black racism.


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    #135
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    creolebelle wrote: »
    l
    Have you ever taken a sociology class or read any sociological texts?Its quite obvious that there is link between poverty and crime that is present in every country.

    It is interesting you omitted the 'Racism' bit there, which was in the original claim that has been successfully debunked now. Of course there are socio-economic issues at hand when it comes to crime levels, I never denied that. What I did deny and dispute was the claim that high levels of black crime in the US can be attributed to Racism.


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    #136
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    More Churches, Less Guns

    /Thread.


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    #137
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    creolebelle wrote: »
    look at the case

    And what would one see? After excluding the demographic data of the people involved what evidence is there?


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    #138
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    creolebelle wrote: »
    You totally ignored my points about systematic racism. Its slightly arrogant of you to lecture me about the problems of my own community.It seems like youre suggesting that black americans aren't as successful as jewish americans because we don't value education and have a poor work ethic. Thats incredibly insulting if thats what your are suggesting. Black americans have been hard working since we arrived here 400 years ago. The US wouldnt have survived without us. We have also valued education. Many of us died trying to educate ourselves and our children. It was grilled into me that I have to be twice as good in order to be successful in the country because of the color my skin. As I have gotten older Ive seen how true it is.

    If what you are saying is true and I don't doubt your personal sincerity or work ethic here but how do you explain the differences in incomes between African Americans and other minorities like Asians and Jews? Asian Americans have more than twice the average income of African Americans. Many of them (Japanese) were locked up/interned for years in the 1940's. There is more to the picture than just 'blame it all on racism'. I am just wondering what that could be?

    We often hear the 'blame' narrative from certain sections of society. There has been many laws like affirmative action (more like positive discrimination) passed in the US to try and give minorities help. However, laws like these have done more damage than good. Yet, these are sacred cows and nobody dared touch them or voice an opinion against them.

    Lastly, education. Of course there are African American families who value education. I continuously mention that blacks living in the US are the most successful, most education and most prosperous black population in the world. There is a huge middle class section of African Americans who do very very well for themselves. The problem is that there are less of them proportionally then other minorities. Why is this?


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    #139
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Its OK to admit that your wrong sometimes Nodin.

    Anyway, this topic is about racism against white people in america until people change the topic. Maybe you can start your own thread on black racism.

    Theres no evidence that's the case here.
    jank wrote: »
    If what you are saying is true and I don't(................)other minorities. Why is this? .

    And there you were telling me the thread was about racism against white people. Dear me.

    Why do you think it is?


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    #140
    creolebelle
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭creolebelle


    jank wrote: »
    It is interesting you omitted the 'Racism' bit there, which was in the original claim that has been successfully debunked now. Of course there are socio-economic issues at hand when it comes to crime levels, I never denied that. What I did deny and dispute was the claim that high levels of black crime in the US can be attributed to Racism.
    You haven't debunked anything. You didn't answer my first 2 questions. You can't take a one size fits all when examining different groups. Systematic racism and poverty are the causes of the high crime rate within the black community


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    #141
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    jank wrote: »
    It is interesting you omitted the 'Racism' bit there, which was in the original claim that has been successfully debunked now. Of course there are socio-economic issues at hand when it comes to crime levels, I never denied that. What I did deny and dispute was the claim that high levels of black crime in the US can be attributed to Racism.

    Is it not evident that racism against a minority can have an impact on the economic, social and environmental resources open to them. This can lead to increased poverty levels which in turn leads to higher crime.


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    #142
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    Theres no evidence that's the case here.

    Well apart from comments that 'could' be deemed racially motivated and the fact they were set upon by a gang of a different race, yes there is no evidence. Now will you be so forthcoming in the Michael Brown case? Doubt it.


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    #143
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Well apart from comments that 'could' be deemed racially motivated and the fact they were set upon by a gang of a different race, yes there is no evidence..

    ....and the fact that this implication seems confined to far right sources. Well done. Bit pointless to use this case to talk about black on white racism then, isn't it?

    "There is a huge middle class section of African Americans who do very very well for themselves. The problem is that there are less of them proportionally then other minorities. Why is this?"

    Why do you think this is?


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    #144
    creolebelle
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭creolebelle


    jank wrote: »
    If what you are saying is true and I don't doubt your personal sincerity or work ethic here but how do you explain the differences in incomes between African Americans and other minorities like Asians and Jews? Asian Americans have more than twice the average income of African Americans. Many of them (Japanese) were locked up/interned for years in the 1940's. There is more to the picture than just 'blame it all on racism'. I am just wondering what that could be?

    We often hear the 'blame' narrative from certain sections of society. There has been many laws like affirmative action (more like positive discrimination) passed in the US to try and give minorities help. However, laws like these have done more damage than good. Yet, these are sacred cows and nobody dared touch them or voice an opinion against them.

    Lastly, education. Of course there are African American families who value education. I continuously mention that blacks living in the US are the most successful, most education and most prosperous black population in the world. There is a huge middle class section of African Americans who do very very well for themselves. The problem is that there are less of them proportionally then other minorities. Why is this?

    It's quite laughable that you think you can actually lecture me about the problems and causes of said problems of the black american community. The answer to your query is a long standing system of systematic racism.
    The main benefactors of affirmative action were white women. You can't compare the interment of japanese citizens to slavery and Jim Crow.
    A recent study examining the job placement rates of recent college grads found it took black Americans twice as long to find work. Another study that used fake names and addresses found those with "black" names and addresses in black neighborhoods were least likely to be called for an interview compared to those with "white" names and addresses in white neighborhoods.
    There was yet another study that found that white dropout with a high school diploma has better chance of finding work compare to a black college graduate with no criminal record.

    Im going to mention another study that found it takes Asians twice as long to find work when compared to their white counterparts.

    Are you an american? You seem really determined to prove that america is some kind of panacea


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    #145
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    creolebelle wrote: »
    You haven't debunked anything. You didn't answer my first 2 questions. You can't take a one size fits all when examining different groups. Systematic racism and poverty are the causes of the high crime rate within the black community

    I don't know what questions you are referring to. I agree you cannot take a one size fits all, that was precisely my point. People are different, groups are different. Groups have different values and culture that separates them, yet when I say that group A have a good work ethic it somehow means that group B don't have a good work ethic and everyone gets all offended with this.

    Are you saying that systematic racism in 2014 is to blame for 50% of murder victims being black, 91% of them murdered by other black people? Where is the empirical evidence for this level of crime and murder. There is more to this than just racism.


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    #146
    creolebelle
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭creolebelle


    psinno wrote: »
    And what would one see? After excluding the demographic data of the people involved what evidence is there?

    That officers are more likely to use to deadly force when handling black ppl.


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    #147
    Sonderkommando
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭Sonderkommando


    David Duke's My Awakening is a must read for anyone interested in this subject.


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    #148
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    creolebelle wrote: »

    Im going to mention another study that found Asians it takes Asians twice as long to find work when compared to their white counterparts.

    Are you an american? You seem really determined to prove that america is some kind of panacea

    a) Then why do Asian earn more than white americans on average? I am genuinely curious here. Why do some minorities do so well and others terribly?

    b) A panacea, god no. There is no utopia in the world. I just reject the narrative that often follows a discussion on race in the US. As I mentioned before, similar studies in Australia have found similar incidents of resume discrimination against non anglo names. Yet, we don't have Asians/middle-easterns and pacific islanders trying to outdo each other in the murder rate. Correlation does not equal correlation unless there is a direct link or study between the resume studies and the homicide rate.


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    #149
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    "There is a huge middle class section of African Americans who do very very well for themselves. The problem is that there are less of them proportionally then other minorities. Why is this?"

    Why do you think this is?

    I already made my points clear, care to answer rather than add one liners?
    Want to wander away from your simple 'racism=poverty=crime' sum that has been debunked?


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    #150
    creolebelle
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭creolebelle


    jank wrote: »
    I don't know what questions you are referring to. I agree you cannot take a one size fits all, that was precisely my point. People are different, groups are different. Groups have different values and culture that separates them, yet when I say that group A have a good work ethic it somehow means that group B don't have a good work ethic and everyone gets all offended with this.

    Are you saying that systematic racism in 2014 is to blame for 50% of murder victims being black, 91% of them murdered by other black people? Where is the empirical evidence for this level of crime and murder. There is more to this than just racism.

    Yes I am. It's a lot more complicated than just group a has better values than group b.
    Poverty+racism=violent crime.
    Lack of jobs causes people to turn to unsavory illegal activity


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    #151
    creolebelle
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭creolebelle


    Sonderkommando wrote: »
    David Duke's My Awakening is a must read for anyone interested in this subject.

    Seriously?
    I think I'm going to take my exit


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