Your experiences with the HSE ?

Muahahaha

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Thats a fúcking disgrace..

See if that happened in America, private or public, the people responsible for something like that would be sued into oblivion.

The problem with this country is that we continuously let people away with such shíte. I do feel however the mood is changing and we're not going to put up with nonsense like this anymore.

Hearing some of the stories on this thread makes me wonder why there isn't more medical negligence legal actions against the HSE. Perhaps people feel they are in the dark about what exact levels of care are expected to be received. But certainly leaving people in pain unnessarily or making a wrong diagnosis that leads to more trouble, they all sound like the types of things that a good medical negligence lawyer would be all over.

Perhaps we don't like to sue here as much as the Americans but in a way that's a shame because being on the wrong end of a few multi million legal cases is a sure fire way to get an organisation to change the way it operates pretty fast. So maybe those who feel they have lost loved ones early because of poor standards of health care will never get their loved ones back but at a minimum winning a legal case against the HSE over it would force them to review their systems and procedures to ensure (hopefully) a similar incident doesn't happen someone's else's family'.

gctest50

Muahahaha wrote: »

Hearing some of the stories on this thread makes me wonder why there isn't more medical negligence legal actions against the HSE. .......

It'd be expensive to bring action against them, need a UK doctor sort of thing

and it'd be a bit like kicking a dead maggot infested dog - you're not going to make it any better

€64 million in 2011
€47 million in 2012
€85 million in 2013

It was revealed last month that it has over €1 billion in outstanding liabilities, consisting of 5,755 active claims.

http://www.medicalindependent.ie/page.aspx?contentid=45320

HEALTH bosses submitted only one of the 400 complaints received by the Medical Council against doctors last year.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/hse-made-one-doctor-complaint-30476314.html

Turtwig

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Thats a fúcking disgrace..

See if that happened in America, private or public, the people responsible for something like that would be sued into oblivion.

The problem with this country is that we continuously let people away with such shíte. I do feel however the mood is changing and we're not going to put up with nonsense like this anymore.

America has a sue culture that actually makes things worse. It's like the referees as the football match, if they don't make any decision things are usually much much worse. At least Doctors in Ireland still have the balls to make decisions. They'll get sht wrong but at least they're not afraid to actually do sht in the first place.

America, after France, has one of the most inflated healthcare systems ever. It's farcical! Ripe with insurance fraud and inefficiencies. The problem with this country is we often don't appreciate how good we've actually got things. The HSE is by no means perfect, but adopting a 'sue nation' would do little to address the underlying problems in Irish healthcare. Last thing you want is the law stifling anything. The State's involvement and 'presence' needs to be keep to an absolute minimum.

Piliger

Muahahaha wrote: »

Hearing some of the stories on this thread makes me wonder why there isn't more medical negligence legal actions against the HSE. Perhaps people feel they are in the dark about what exact levels of care are expected to be received. But certainly leaving people in pain unnessarily or making a wrong diagnosis that leads to more trouble, they all sound like the types of things that a good medical negligence lawyer would be all over.

Perhaps we don't like to sue here as much as the Americans but in a way that's a shame because being on the wrong end of a few multi million legal cases is a sure fire way to get an organisation to change the way it operates pretty fast. So maybe those who feel they have lost loved ones early because of poor standards of health care will never get their loved ones back but at a minimum winning a legal case against the HSE over it would force them to review their systems and procedures to ensure (hopefully) a similar incident doesn't happen someone's else's family'.

Well I for one don't want our system to go this path, which leads nowhere except down the sh1thole.

takamichinoku

My dad, who was clearly ill with deteriorating results in a heap of tests, specifically iron levels, was bounced over and back from leukemia and diabetes specialists for several months. Each assuming the issue was to do with the other one so it kept getting pushed back and forth. It was pretty bizarre that there was this wait and see type attitude going on for an eternity while his results were collapsing the whole time.

Eventually it got landed on the cancer dudes had him on an iron prescription for a fortnight. It was way too strong and making him ill to the point that he couldn't take them.
At his next checkup, when he told them at the next meeting, they gave him the same prescription again!
He had a ton of prior issues with haemorrhoids so I figured it was something to do with that, pushed for him to go to the GP. I got him to head into a GP (his extremely crappy regular guy was out) the next day to get another prescription instead, it was also too strong so he abandoned it too.
Next time he was back getting the iron levels tested, in spite of being told he wasn't able to take either of those, he got another prescription for the second one! When he went back into his crappy GP this time to explain all of his symptoms, he was told to buy some Gaviscon (:mad:).
Two days later, the Gaviscon (:mad:) wasn't working so he went to the out of hours GP place and the guy there was immediately able to surmise a lot of it.
About a week after that he was signed into the hospital where he resided for the next month for all kinds of tests, 3 days before he died he was diagnosed with colon cancer... can't imagine it takes a month to get tests back for that, they were doing biopsies all over the place when he had a big swollen chunk of his abdomen down there too.

I find it really confusing that it took them that long to find the cancer when a quick googling of iron levels had me pretty much on the same track months before, one of the standout issues of his past medical records was issues with that whole area too.
Definitely accept a fair amount of personal responsibility for basically denying the possibility of colon cancer whenever I saw it pop up though and subsequently not heading into the GPs and specialists myself to argue about it (I'm not exactly aggressive and/or confrontational, but I'll state my case at least. My dad was extremely meek and I suspect it's possible he didn't argue his case very strongly). We put a stupid amount of trust in the system in retrospect.


Em, yeah, HSE, I've no clue, I've almost always felt extremely fobbed off by them when I've tried to get things dealt with to the point that I can't motivate myself to even try anymore. Last GP I dealt with was really good but everyone beyond him done felt like they were just trying to escort me out of the place as fast as possible.
Almost certainly a case where you have to be the most loud and obnoxious prick possible to be properly dealt with. Seems like with basically any issue you've to do a ton of the research yourself in advance and then argue your way past whoever it is getting pissed off at you for doing just that to get any real kind of progress underway. This might be medical services in general though?

grumpydwarf

I have constant heavy periods (sorry guys!) - like a menstrual cycle in reverse, with 7/8 weeks on, then 4/5 days off. It's frustrating as I'm infertile, so a constant reminder that I can't have kids, and it makes me quite depressed. It's also not great for marital relations, in both senses of the word. I feel constantly tired, and have frequent pain there too. It started three years ago, so I got referred off to the Rotunda.

It took 11 months to get as far as the Rotunda, and I got shoved in the waiting room with 70-100 pregnant women in varying stages of their trimester. I can handle pregnant women on a one to one basis or smaller numbers, but again 79-100 women was a kick in the belly.

Going through the processes - two visits with trainees, one scan, two sets of bloods, then the consultant - was relatively quick, done and dusted in four months. The problem was the final visit when I got to actually see the consultant;
"We are putting you on the pill"
"Why? I can't have kids"
"Because it will regulate the bleeding"
"But what is actually wrong with me?"
"We don't know"
"So what's the next step?"
"Like I said, we are putting you on the pill"
"But isn't that just masking the symptoms?"
"Well, you're not dying so what else do you want us to do?"
"I'd like to know what's wrong with me?"
"We don't know. Here's the prescription. Come back if you want to have kids"
"Did you actually read my file?"

So I'm still bleeding, and my husband thinks I'm Draculas long lost daughter

Sarky

HSE doctors, nurses, consultants? Mostly very helpful, very talented and very busy. I'd probably be dead a couple of times over without them.

HSE admin, on the other hand, is a f*cking byzantine mess of middle management, incompetence, laziness, inefficiency and unnecessary waste that sucks up far too much time and money. It needs some serious restructuring that most ministers have just been too scared or lazy to tackle.

IvaBigWun

gctest50 wrote: »

It'd be expensive to bring action against them, need a UK doctor sort of thing

A Uk doctor?

Eh?

gctest50

IvaBigWun wrote: »

A Uk doctor?

Eh?

this sort of thing :

In Ireland, while doctors will often provide a medical report outlining a mistake made by a colleague, they have no enthusiasm for doing so and delays can often occur. In addition, they are reluctant to become involve in giving evidence in Court.

In the UK, however, there are specialist doctors who provide evidence in medical negligence cases as part of their job. They are generally very impartial and will provide an honest opinion of the merits of the case and will make themselves available to travel to Ireland to give evidence.




http://pjf.ie/what-we-do/medical-negligence/free-legal-advice-10-steps-for-medical-negligence-victims/8.-obtaining-expert-reports-in-medical-negligence-cases

Piliger

gctest50 wrote: »

this sort of thing :

Ah yes. No chance at all they'd be conveniently pumping up their fees. None at all !

IvaBigWun

gctest50 wrote: »

this sort of thing :

So translated. An Irish doctor will cover his colleague's backs even if they've genuinely f*cked up.

Piliger

IvaBigWun wrote: »

So translated. An Irish doctor will cover his colleague's backs even if they've genuinely f*cked up.

Claims a firm of solicitors, soliciting.

smellmepower

Broke my ankle few years back and was looked after very well and very quickly by the nurses,radiologists,physio and docs in Tallaght hospital.Never got a bill either,probably cos I've moved addresses so much. All the docs,nurses and psychologists in the (free) community mental health clinic that I used to attend 5 or 6 years ago were great too.

The uncle is dying of cancer in hospital at the moment and only has a medical card,but he has his own room with an en suite bathroom and everyone who's involved in his care have been great,and very warm and friendly to him and our family.

I assume it's managers and above that give the HSE a bad rap,because all the frontline staff that I've dealt with have been great.

Birroc

The HSE can be good and bad but mostly bad. They are getting worse by the month.

Piliger

Birroc wrote: »

The HSE can be good and bad but mostly bad. They are getting worse by the month.

In my experience the HSE is 99% fantastic. In every organisation in every country, in every society, there will be mistakes and errors. When you collect all the complaints together anyone can create a hatchet job. We are lucky to have our medical scheme.

Corruptedmorals

I work in hospital admin *ducks*, although not directly by the HSE. There isn't enough work hours for all I do although I definitely encounter very relaxed admin staff on a daily basis.

It's stressful and the system really, really sucks for those who cannot afford private appointments. The cardiology and rheumatology waiting lists are 2 years long for children, it's just disgraceful. There aren't enough consultants. 5 and 3 in total for paediatric nationwide for the above specialities and they're all in Dublin.

Red Pepper

Piliger wrote: »

In my experience the HSE is 99% fantastic. In every organisation in every country, in every society, there will be mistakes and errors. When you collect all the complaints together anyone can create a hatchet job. We are lucky to have our medical scheme.

Is that a statistic? In my experience you are 99% lucky. Most of my experiences with the HSE have been negative. My family are currently in legal proceedings with them over their neglect. I blame the systems and the bloated management/back office structure over the front line doctors and nurses but the HSE as a whole is a disgrace.

Dante

Nothing but good things to say from my experiences, seems I'm in the minority!

steddyeddy

Nurses and frontline docs are fantastic just the service is plagued with massive waste and useless employees. It's amazing that austerity didn't involve trimming the waste from government bodies.

AulBiddy

Our doctor is great, he gets our referrals in quick, when I had appendicitis when I was 11 the doctor rang my dad to ask had I been to surgery, told him we were still waiting, doctor was then heard roaring down the phone to another doctor to get me into surgery straight away, fair play to him because I was in a lot of pain.
My dad himself hasn't had many good experiences though. He hadnt been referred through our doctor one time when he had appendicitis, he was left waiting on a trolley for hours (which is ridiculous because appendicitis is usually an immediate medical emergency ) , when he was brought to surgery he was operated on by keyhole surgery which took longer. His appendix had perforated but it had only happened as he was in the surgery so it was cleaned quickly.

Its really sad that people with genuine medical problems are left waiting and waiting, its just so cruel. People should not have to pay out extra money just to be seen quicker, everyone is in the same boat and should be treated equally.

Red Pepper

AulBiddy wrote: »

My dad himself hasn't had many good experiences though. He hadnt been referred through our doctor one time when he had appendicitis, he was left waiting on a trolley for hours (which is ridiculous because appendicitis is usually an immediate medical emergency ) , when he was brought to surgery he was operated on by keyhole surgery which took longer. His appendix had perforated but it had only happened as he was in the surgery so it was cleaned quickly.

This happened to my cousin 2 years ago. She went into A&E Galway and they immediately diagnosed appendicitis. The surgeons were eager and ready to operate but they couldn't do so because the "Bed Manager" could not find an empty ward bed and it seems you cannot have surgery unless there is a post-op bed available. Because of the pain she begged to be returned post-op to the trolley in A&E but they refused. 8 hours later her appendix burst on the trolley...disaster...4 hours after that they found a bed and operated.

Instead of spending 1-2 days in hospital after a simple operation, the burst appendix meant she had to stay in for 6 days on heavy antibiotics - when an appendix burst, the "puss" spreads all over the intestinal area which means a longer op to clean up the surrounding area. In effect she used up a precious bed for 4/5 days longer than she should have done so it probably had a knock on effect.

Birroc

Sarky wrote: »

HSE doctors, nurses, consultants? Mostly very helpful, very talented and very busy. I'd probably be dead a couple of times over without them.

HSE admin, on the other hand, is a f*cking byzantine mess of middle management, incompetence, laziness, inefficiency and unnecessary waste that sucks up far too much time and money. It needs some serious restructuring that most ministers have just been too scared or lazy to tackle.

The problem is this: when the health boards were amalgamated into the HSE, there should have been layoffs as they consolidated and centralised admin roles and admin processes. There were plans to do so but these were shelved as an election got close. As a result they had too many admin people and a bloated management structure. This management structure started creating roles and processes with zero value-add and created a very very expensive bureaucracy which remains today. The health service does receive enough money however there is huge waste. All health ministers know this but they are also all afraid of the unions. Varadkar had a big decision to make - bite the bullet and make reforms or coast to the next election. I think I know what he will do, he is too ambitious to tackle the real problems.

Stepping Stone

I always go private now because of the mess that I encountered going public in my youth. When I was in college, I was admitted to A&E. Spent a few weeks in hospital while they tried to work out what was wrong with me. Finally released and told that I would have to come back for very regular check ups for the next 5 yrs. Grand. Waited for my letter and got my appointment. Grand, all fine, come back in 3 months. Six months later I was still waiting so I rang them and I was told that they had sent the appointment letter out not just to my address in Cork but to my address in Kerry. I said no letter had appeared at either address, they checked the addresses (remember I got a letter the first time). So, they had College Road, Cork as my Cork on (no number, no terrace, nothing else, so no **** I didn't get it) then my Kerry one was listed as this address in Listowel. I told them that I wan't from there or anywhere near there, I live almost 2 hours away from Listowel. No good, she knew better than I did that this was the address I had given. Anyway, eventually I got an appointment but they lost the file, the results of the last tests...

IvaBigWun

Those appendicitis stories are like something that would happen in the Third World. Shocking.

steddyeddy

AulBiddy wrote: »

Our doctor is great, he gets our referrals in quick, when I had appendicitis when I was 11 the doctor rang my dad to ask had I been to surgery, told him we were still waiting, doctor was then heard roaring down the phone to another doctor to get me into surgery straight away, fair play to him because I was in a lot of pain.
My dad himself hasn't had many good experiences though. He hadnt been referred through our doctor one time when he had appendicitis, he was left waiting on a trolley for hours (which is ridiculous because appendicitis is usually an immediate medical emergency ) , when he was brought to surgery he was operated on by keyhole surgery which took longer. His appendix had perforated but it had only happened as he was in the surgery so it was cleaned quickly.

Its really sad that people with genuine medical problems are left waiting and waiting, its just so cruel. People should not have to pay out extra money just to be seen quicker, everyone is in the same boat and should be treated equally.

I thought public and private were the same?

Piliger

Birroc wrote: »

The problem is this: when the health boards were amalgamated into the HSE, there should have been layoffs as they consolidated and centralised admin roles and admin processes. There were plans to do so but these were shelved as an election got close. As a result they had too many admin people and a bloated management structure. This management structure started creating roles and processes with zero value-add and created a very very expensive bureaucracy which remains today. The health service does receive enough money however there is huge waste. All health ministers know this but they are also all afraid of the unions. Varadkar had a big decision to make - bite the bullet and make reforms or coast to the next election. I think I know what he will do, he is too ambitious to tackle the real problems.

Ah yes ... that mythical waster everyone who knows nothing about administering a large organisation is so expert at claiming ...

steddyeddy

Piliger wrote: »

Ah yes ... that mythical waster everyone who knows nothing about administering a large organisation is so expert at claiming ...

Wasters not waster. Get it right.

Wompa1

Turtwig wrote: »

America has a sue culture that actually makes things worse. It's like the referees as the football match, if they don't make any decision things are usually much much worse. At least Doctors in Ireland still have the balls to make decisions. They'll get sht wrong but at least they're not afraid to actually do sht in the first place.

America, after France, has one of the most inflated healthcare systems ever. It's farcical! Ripe with insurance fraud and inefficiencies. The problem with this country is we often don't appreciate how good we've actually got things. The HSE is by no means perfect, but adopting a 'sue nation' would do little to address the underlying problems in Irish healthcare. Last thing you want is the law stifling anything. The State's involvement and 'presence' needs to be keep to an absolute minimum.

You're missing something there. Doctors in the states do make decisions and are not afraid of malpractice from what I've seen here. Unless they have a track record of negligence they will not have their license revoked...As for being afraid of lawsuits. The hospitals have insurance, which is how the settlements get paid. It's not ideal in that it inflates the cost of healthcare and Insurance in general and forces people to have their own health insurance.

'ObamaCare' is called socialist here, when in actual fact it just makes having insurance mandatory...if you don't have insurance, next April when you file your taxes you pay a penalty. Apparently those without insurance can still get treated...I hope that's true but thus far I don't think that's the case and that is the single worst thing about the US healthcare system. Health Insurance is Required.

The corruption is true to a point. I believe private practice Doctors here are on the take from drug manufacturers and also Doctors will insist on a full battery of tests just because you have insurance, they can run up the bill. I also believe the drug manufacturers themselves are corrupt...they are fixing prices and inflating them to an extraordinary amount.

But then there's the flip side....because the doctors run a battery of tests. You can be more rest assured that you're actually healthy. I got a book with all of my different test results. Showing my areas of concern and how to fix them. The doctor was trying to force medication on me but I just refused..the book showed the treatment way of thing and the way I could naturally remedy myself..which I did. Not necessarily corruption but here doctors prescribe sh1t willy nilly.

Also something you may not know unless you live here. While the price of medication is highly inflated e.g. I was once prescribed antibiotics that cost $600 without insurance....there's so many players in the game and legit players that there's always cheaper alternatives and variations of the drug. In that example, I got the CVS brand of those drugs for $28. Typically, thus far when I've got the expensive drugs with my insurance...I ended up paying around $10-$15 out of pocket.

I've never spent more time with a doctor than I have over here..they want to hear absolutely everything because they want to have that little reason to run a test even if it's a shot in the dark. It's BS because it turns increases the cost of healthcare but as a patient, it's not bad because you can have confidence in a clear bill of health.

Ireland = No Insurance Required, No Healthcare provided
USA= Insurance Required, Excellent Healthcare provided

Piliger

Wompa1 wrote: »

Ireland = No Insurance Required, No Healthcare provided
USA= Insurance Required, Excellent Healthcare provided

What utter nonsense.

Wompa1

Piliger wrote: »

What utter nonsense.

how so? Check out the thread for a sample of the healthcare in Ireland.