Voluntary contributions for school

DerryRed

My daughter is back to primary school in a few weeks and we are getting various things ready including the voluntary contribution. The school have always been pretty flexible when it comes to paying, especially for people who aren't working or have a low income.

I was talking to my a friend recently and their daughter is starting secondary school. They've been asked for a voluntary contribution in the region of €140 and are struggling to get the money together. It seems that if they don't pay it their daughter doesn't get a locker, regardless of the parents' financial situation.

Is this common practice in all secondary schools? It seems to be putting fierce pressure on parents who obviously wouldn't want their kids to be singled out as one of the few without a locker and the likely bullying that would follow. Finding it difficult to understand why schools would have such a policy.

Would be interested in hearing people's views and experiences of this voluntary fee.

mick kk

Are you sure that the 140 doesn't include the locker rental...the locker aspect of it could be €10 for example and maybe the school would take this for now and then balance whenever you can pay it.

DerryRed

mick kk wrote: »

Are you sure that the 140 doesn't include the locker rental...the locker aspect of it could be €10 for example and maybe the school would take this for now and then balance whenever you can pay it.

From the discussion I had it sounded like an all or nothing proposition.

Cabaal

DerryRed, I'm going to move this thread to the Primary & Pre-school forum. You'll likely get more replys in that forum.

DerryRed

Cabaal wrote: »

DerryRed, I'm going to move this thread to the Primary & Pre-school forum. You'll likely get more replys in that forum.

Thanks

Moonbeam

They can not insist on a €140 voluntary contribution as that would equate to fees.
It might be for locker and printing and stationary etc but 140 sounds quite high for that.

diveout

Our PS is demanding E250 contribution plus a mandatory E95 for photcopying and text messaging.

byhookorbycrook

€95 just for photocopying and texts? Does this include standardized tests,art and crafts and maybe something like swimming? They can look for this , if so, however €250 per primary child is outrageous,is it broken down as to what this would be for?

Moonbeam

€250 is the minimum amount for the school to reclaim the tax relief.

They can request it but can not deny a place based on it.

diveout

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

€95 just for photocopying and texts? Does this include standardized tests,art and crafts and maybe something like swimming? They can look for this , if so, however €250 per primary child is outrageous,is it broken down as to what this would be for?

95 doesn't include swimming. I really don't know what it includes, I think texts photo copying and arts and crafts. Probably standardised tests. I know we weren't asked for extra for the Drumcondra so I'm guessing it includes that one. Although we only got raw scores for that test and not converted ones.

The E250 was not broken down, just a general request.

byhookorbycrook

A request or a demand? There's quite a difference, how was it worded?

diveout

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

A request or a demand? There's quite a difference, how was it worded?

They call the E 250 a voluntary contribution. The E 95 is mandatory.

byhookorbycrook

The €95 would need to be paid, as it is to cover specified items. The €250 is voluntary, but most schools depend on some form of "voluntary" additional money to survive. €250 per child is huge. I'd talk to the school and tell them you can't pay that but will contribute what you can.

Moonbeam

Our local school asks for 250 every 2 years,which I have no issue with.

muckisluck

What does the word voluntary mean in all this. I don't think anyone should pay. It's just another form of taxation if you ask me. Either we fund schools or we don't. If I was to pay this I would want to see how the money is spent. How many schools are sending out accounts to parents as to what is done with this "voluntary" contribution.

Moonbeam

SOme schools do.

The problem is that the schools do not receive enough public funding sometimes they can not afford to pay things as simple as heating and teachers are often putting their hands in their own pockets to buy educational supplies for their class room.


It is crazy but reality.

byhookorbycrook

muckisluck wrote: »

What does the word voluntary mean in all this. I don't think anyone should pay. It's just another form of taxation if you ask me. Either we fund schools or we don't. If I was to pay this I would want to see how the money is spent. How many schools are sending out accounts to parents as to what is done with this "voluntary" contribution.

Our accounts are gone through each year with the parents' association. Take it from me, it's not going on foreign junkets for teachers!!Any teacher I know ends up paying for school stuff out of their own pockets .

SamforMayo

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Our accounts are gone through each year with the parents' association. Take it from me, it's not going on foreign junkets for teachers!!Any teacher I know ends up paying for school stuff out of their own pockets .

In my experience not a cent is wasted in Primary Schools and a contribution is needed however 250 is crazy. In our local school we are asked for 5 euro a month or what ever a person can afford even if its only a euro. It causes a lot of resentment if only a certain amount contribute, especially when they are the same people who turn up at every fund raising event as well.

diveout

Moonbeam wrote: »

SOme schools do.

The problem is that the schools do not receive enough public funding sometimes they can not afford to pay things as simple as heating and teachers are often putting their hands in their own pockets to buy educational supplies for their class room.


It is crazy but reality.

Maybe if they took all that First Holy Communion money spent they could afford heat.

muckisluck

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Our accounts are gone through each year with the parents' association. Take it from me, it's not going on foreign junkets for teachers!!Any teacher I know ends up paying for school stuff out of their own pockets .

I would be absolutely sure that none of it is used incorrectly but if more schools refused to charge for education and schools who do charge went public with their accounts maybe there would be more of a backlash from the public to get proper funding for schools. I don't think going through accounts with a few parents who have time on their hands to join a parents council is enough. Everyone who pays a contribution to the school should see where the money goes.

Merak

diveout wrote: »

Maybe if they took all that First Holy Communion money spent they could afford heat.

Schools don't spend anything on the First Holy Communion except for maybe some art supplies.

SamforMayo

diveout wrote: »

Maybe if they took all that First Holy Communion money spent they could afford heat.

Schools don't spend money on Holy Communion, parents do.

byhookorbycrook

diveout wrote: »

Maybe if they took all that First Holy Communion money spent they could afford heat.

There's no money spent on sacrament preparation, can you explain your comment?

diveout

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

There's no money spent on sacrament preparation, can you explain your comment?

Several people already pointed that out.

Obviously if they spend most of 2nd class on teachings of the holy ghost that is money spent on first communion. Teaching hours, overheads, etc.

SamforMayo

diveout wrote: »

Several people already pointed that out.

Obviously if they spend most of 2nd class on teachings of the holy ghost that is money spent on first communion. Teaching hours, overheads, etc.

I think you are grinding a different axe there, one which has no connection to the original op.

Moonbeam

I have no time for religion in schools but it is a completely different issue to that of the chronic underfunding .

killbillvol2

diveout wrote: »

Several people already pointed that out.

Obviously if they spend most of 2nd class on teachings of the holy ghost that is money spent on first communion. Teaching hours, overheads, etc.

6th class is spent on the Holy Ghost. 2nd class is the baby Jesus. If you're going to make ludicrous statements at least get part of them right.

diveout

killbillvol2 wrote: »

6th class is spent on the Holy Ghost. 2nd class is the baby Jesus. If you're going to make ludicrous statements at least get part of them right.

Same voo doo, different day. All those teaching hours and overheads spent on all that time. And yet they want 250 from each student, even when on prime real estate. Yeah.

is mise spartacus

My school requests €100ish and if you don't pay in time you get no locker, journal etc until you pay.

diveout

is mise spartacus wrote: »

My school requests €100ish and if you don't pay in time you get no locker, journal etc until you pay.

That is not voluntary.

is mise spartacus

diveout wrote: »

That is not voluntary.

They call it a voluntary contribution though

byhookorbycrook

diveout wrote: »

Same voo doo, different day. All those teaching hours and overheads spent on all that time. And yet they want 250 from each student, even when on prime real estate. Yeah.

What overheads exactly? Teaching time- nothing to do with schools looking for financial help. Prime real estate? Do you suggest schools all move to the side of some wind swept bog ??

diveout

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

What overheads exactly? Teaching time- nothing to do with schools looking for financial help. Prime real estate? Do you suggest schools all move to the side of some wind swept bog ??

Per hour, how much does it cost to run a classroom? Including heat, insurance, electricity, and labor costs teacher, teachers aid and SNAs if applicable?

How many hours are spent on the teachings of the holy ghost and the baby Jesus?

If the financial help they are looking for subsidizes this voo doo then yes it definitely does. If they cut the waste involved in hours spent on it, they might save some money and then wouldn't have to beg.

PLL

I went to school in England and will be sending my daughter to school here in 2 years and I am in shock at what is being said here. I have absolutely no issue in supporting the school my daughter attends but to call something voluntary when it is not is wrong. It should either be stated what the so called 'voluntary contribution' actually is for otherwise it is just blackmail.

SamforMayo

PLL wrote: »

I went to school in England and will be sending my daughter to school here in 2 years and I am in shock at what is being said here. I have absolutely no issue in supporting the school my daughter attends but to call something voluntary when it is not is wrong. It should either be stated what the so called 'voluntary contribution' actually is for otherwise it is just blackmail.

To be fair this is not every school and to be honest I actually rather pay the contribution than this constant fundraising which is a dose.

diveout

SamforMayo wrote: »

To be fair this is not every school and to be honest I actually rather pay the contribution than this constant fundraising which is a dose.

We get the begging letters in the school bag as well as a demand for E95 and a request for E250.

SamforMayo

diveout wrote: »

Per hour, how much does it cost to run a classroom? Including heat, insurance, electricity, and labor costs teacher, teachers aid and SNAs if applicable?

How many hours are spent on the teachings of the holy ghost and the baby Jesus?

If the financial help they are looking for subsidizes this voo doo then yes it definitely does. If they cut the waste involved in hours spent on it, they might save some money and then wouldn't have to beg.

The school day will not be shortened regardless of whether religion is taught or not therefore heat, insurance etc is the same. I m fairly sure Educate Together schools look for money too. Parents were asked on their opinions about religious education in schools as far as I know the majority were in favour of it continuing. However since you seem very exercised on the issue perhaps you should email our new minister for education or ring Joe Duffy.

SamforMayo

diveout wrote: »

We get the begging letters in the school bag as well as a demand for E95 and a request for E250.

That's a lot of money you are been asked for. Out of interest have you got a break down on where the 95/250 is going. Do your children have to pay for a lot of books on top of this?

diveout

SamforMayo wrote: »

That's a lot of money you are been asked for. Out of interest have you got a break down on where the 95/250 is going. Do your children have to pay for a lot of books on top of this?

A couple of books to buy, two school uniform sets, with piping and stitched in crests.

95 is for photocopying and arts and crafts and text notifications.

The E250 I have no idea.

Plus various fundraising during the year for things.

SamforMayo

diveout wrote: »

A couple of books to buy, two school uniform sets, with piping and stitched in crests.

95 is for photocopying and arts and crafts and text notifications.

The E250 I have no idea.

Plus various fundraising during the year for things.

Regarding the 95 euro if you are only buying a couple of books it sounds like they do a lot photocopying. I never heard of a school charging for text notification as I thought it was done via computer. As for the 250 euro unless there is new building work going on or a big outlay for interactive white boards etc it sounds steep. Parents should be given a break down of where it goes, this happens in a lot of schools. One thing though if a lot of parents refuse to contribute at all the other parents are left to pay more and that drives me mad.

diveout

SamforMayo wrote: »

Regarding the 95 euro if you are only buying a couple of books it sounds like they do a lot photocopying. I never heard of a school charging for text notification as I thought it was done via computer. As for the 250 euro unless there is new building work going on or a big outlay for interactive white boards etc it sounds steep. Parents should be given a break down of where it goes, this happens in a lot of schools. One thing though if a lot of parents refuse to contribute at all the other parents are left to pay more and that drives me mad.

The amount of photocopying is unreal. I have stacks of it I don't know what to do with. I don't understand why they just don't use books.

Insect Overlord

diveout wrote: »

The amount of photocopying is unreal. I have stacks of it I don't know what to do with. I don't understand why they just don't use books.

A fair few of the books (for classes of all levels) are rubbish.

SamforMayo

An File wrote: »

A fair few of the books (for classes of all levels) are rubbish.

Yes but not all so a lot of research is required, also once they go above 1 st class they don't need to write into workbooks so those books are usually available on a loan scheme. A visualizer is a great tool too and really cuts down on photocopying.

killbillvol2

diveout wrote: »

A couple of books to buy, two school uniform sets, with piping and stitched in crests.

95 is for photocopying and arts and crafts and text notifications.

The E250 I have no idea.

Plus various fundraising during the year for things.

Despite my reservations about your agenda on the religious front that sounds like something bordering on extortion.

My school runs a weekly lottery, €2 a ticket, voluntary obviously. It's well supported and the proceeds are very transparently spent on resources.

To the various ill informed contributers, school accounts are audited annually and not by the parents'association. (Well maybe the PA sees them but they're independently audited)

killbillvol2

An File wrote: »

A fair few of the books (for classes of all levels) are rubbish.

Tremendous contribution. Maybe you'd like to elaborate?

DerryRed

is mise spartacus wrote: »

My school requests €100ish and if you don't pay in time you get no locker, journal etc until you pay.

This is just plain wrong. With these stipulations parents have little choice but to pay. I wouldn't want my daughter to be one of the few without a locker and become a target for bullies.

Nick_1494

That seems very steep. My school is 150 for the first child and 100 after that. Lockers and journals are an extra 10 at the start of the year. Contribution can be paid in installments over the year and covers all printing, arts, pe, etc.

byhookorbycrook

diveout wrote: »

Per hour, how much does it cost to run a classroom? Including heat, insurance, electricity, and labor costs teacher, teachers aid and SNAs if applicable?

How many hours are spent on the teachings of the holy ghost and the baby Jesus?

If the financial help they are looking for subsidizes this voo doo then yes it definitely does. If they cut the waste involved in hours spent on it, they might save some money and then wouldn't have to beg.

Religion was traditionally taught during lunchtime, from 12-12.30, so the school day was not impacted and without it ,the school day would not be any shorter, but breaks would be longer, so your idea of school funds being spent on religion is not valid.. If you have an issue with religion in schools, please contact the DES ,as even multi-denom schools have to teach about different religions.

Please don't post on this thread again re religion as it is off topic. Feel free to start another thread on the issue elsewhere.