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Who rides Australia at York?

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    #32
    bit of a bogey
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭bit of a bogey


    FIVE2_THREE wrote: »
    Yes Lester Piggott who is the greatest Jockey of ALL TIME. can you blame them ? When Frankie was let go by the Maktoums He went to Ballydoyle to ride work. If John wanted a stable jockey he would have inked a deal then. The man said he doesn't want one.

    Agreed. That's because they have Joesph - Not because Magnier isn't willing to spend his pocket money.


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    #33
    Peintre Celebre
    Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Peintre Celebre


    bit of a bogey wrote: »
    They are both limited jockeys who are getting mounts for well bred horses in the yard - for both McManus and Magnier.

    This is nowhere near right. Nearly all of them are owned by Ann Marie, Ana got a nice ride on Michaelmas alright last week and won but nearly all of the rest are in her mother's colours or for James Nash. A look through their rides on Timeform would confirm it


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    #34
    andyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,641 ✭✭✭andyman


    I wouldn't say they're limited jockeys either. A bit harsh a statement to make about two young jockeys, Ana especially.


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    #35
    nuckeythompson
    Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭nuckeythompson


    the groutch wrote: »
    tbh I don't give two ****s about how it effects his riding skills, or how punters feel about it.
    it's the potential effects on his health that I care about.

    I totally agree with the above, reminded me of a book I read last yeak about an Irisj Jock in the USA. The simple game , an Irish Jockey's Memoir by Tom Foley. The wasting that goes on the US is horrifying . The constant wasting is the biggest thing to put me off trying to be a jockey


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    #36
    nuckeythompson
    Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭nuckeythompson


    FIVE2_THREE wrote: »
    Most of their mounts come from their mother.

    This is so true in alot of way than you may think. Had the good fortune of working there for a short period. She is the BOSS and don't forget it. In many ways she runs the place and makes alot of decisions and is happy to stay in the background. A battleaxe would be too nice a name for her but I think she has to be . She nearly drove Murtagh back on the drink


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    #37
    FIVE2_THREE
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭FIVE2_THREE


    bit of a bogey wrote: »
    Agreed. That's because they have Joesph - Not because Magnier isn't willing to spend his pocket money.

    They don't have Joe. as you see the sun is setting on his career. Spencer and Murtagh were the last two retained riders for Ballydoyle both burned Magnier and left. Joe is and was never a long term solution.


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    #38
    FIVE2_THREE
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭FIVE2_THREE


    Heavy is the head that wears the crown
    spencer quits
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/2354969/Spencer-quits-as-Ballydoyle-number-one.html

    Murtagh quits
    http://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/world/2010/1108/272881-murtaghj1/

    Can you blame Magnier for not wanting a stable Jockey ? Jockeys all say they want to ride good horses but when they are given the keys to the kingdom the crown becomes to heavy.


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    #39
    andyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,641 ✭✭✭andyman


    And what about Fallon?


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    #40
    nuckeythompson
    Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭nuckeythompson


    Serious pressure there for anybody working there, Murtagh was the fact that he had to play second fiddle to Joe and he and AM did not get on.
    Spencer was too young IMO for that position with the pressure that comes with it


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    #41
    nuckeythompson
    Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭nuckeythompson


    andyman wrote: »
    And what about Fallon?
    Fallon handled that job better than anyone, but then he got caught out with the sniff


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    #42
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    nuckeythompson wrote: »
    This is so true in alot of way than you may think. Had the good fortune of working there for a short period. She is the BOSS and don't forget it. In many ways she runs the place and makes alot of decisions and is happy to stay in the background. A battleaxe would be too nice a name for her but I think she has to be . She nearly drove Murtagh back on the drink
    That's interesting about AM,didnt know she was that heavily involved,was she out when there was work being ridden for instance and in what way did she annoy Johnnie?


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    #43
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    I'd prefer to see either Seamie or O'Donoghue onboard Australia. There's no bullsh!t about either of them. Soumillon would be going overboard in trying to make himself look clever, Frankie isn't the jockey he was, Frankel made Queally look good. Heffernan and O'Donoghue would get the job done with the minimum of fuss.


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    #44
    solwhit2
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭solwhit2


    It's a shame seamie or colm never got the main job ,both very capable and keep's it simple while Joseph will be stuck up the inside with nowhere to go.Apart from Moore and Hughes the pool of top class jockey's is fairly small.


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    #45
    cack_handed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 287 ✭✭cack_handed


    FIVE2_THREE wrote: »
    Heavy is the head that wears the crown
    spencer quits
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/2354969/Spencer-quits-as-Ballydoyle-number-one.html

    Murtagh quits
    http://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/world/2010/1108/272881-murtaghj1/

    Can you blame Magnier for not wanting a stable Jockey ? Jockeys all say they want to ride good horses but when they are given the keys to the kingdom the crown becomes to heavy.

    I don't really get your angle on this issue. Murtagh gave them 3 good years (19 G1s in one of them iirc), it's not as if he was a failure, very far from it. In fact, bar Spencer all of their jockeys have been unqualified successes. Also, unless you're an insider and can tell us differently, my understanding is that Murtagh had some legitimate complaints about the Ballydoyle set-up. I recall Mick Kinane expressing reservations about the set-up there too - I'll provide a link if you need - so maybe it's not all down to the jockeys in Ballydoyle, there's two sides to this complex story.

    Lastly, Magnier does have a stable jockey - Joseph. For how long more is the question we're debating, probably longer than most would bargain for imho


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    #46
    FIVE2_THREE
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭FIVE2_THREE


    cack_handed wrote: »
    I don't really get your angle on this issue. Murtagh gave them 3 good years (19 G1s in one of them iirc), it's not as if he was a failure, very far from it. In fact, bar Spencer all of their jockeys have been unqualified successes. Also, unless you're an insider and can tell us differently, my understanding is that Murtagh had some legitimate complaints about the Ballydoyle set-up. I recall Mick Kinane expressing reservations about the set-up there too - I'll provide a link if you need - so maybe it's not all down to the jockeys in Ballydoyle, there's two sides to this complex story.

    Lastly, Magnier does have a stable jockey - Joseph. For how long more is the question we're debating, probably longer than most would bargain for imho

    WELL I don't have an angle but IF I did I would say I agree with Magnier. why ink a deal with these guys if they're going to quit. Joe is not a stable rider. He has no contract with Coolmore to ride because if He did He would be in france to ride for Fabre on the big days or in the states to ride for Pletcher or Baffert on Big days. He may have a deal with his father to ride like Wayne Lordan has with David. but no stable owner would ink a contract with a stable rider who can only make weight 1/4 of the time


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    #47
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    andyman wrote: »
    And what about Fallon?

    Top Jockey still,very little feck ups as jockeys go and matured.
    I think if things don't pick up for him besides the spike earlier that frustration may make him call it a day,rumoured to have bought a place around Moneygall.


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    #48
    Pinesky
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭Pinesky


    Why not go for the jockey with the best record ,who also delivered the best ever ride, in the race .i know he's 74 but he'd still ride the likes of Fallon into a coma.


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    #49
    Peintre Celebre
    Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Peintre Celebre


    Joseph has confirmed he'll ride and can do the weight


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    #50
    tryfix
    Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    Peintre Celebre wrote: »
    Joseph has confirmed he'll ride and can do the weight
    He gets on well with the horse, and hopefully the horse is up to beating what is a very decent looking field. 6 GP1 winners and the King George 2nd and 4th are as good as GP1 winners on ratings.

    Really looking forward to this race.:)


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    #51
    jimjamcos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭jimjamcos


    Hardly an ideal situation even if he makes the weight. The wasting is bound to affect JOB. Mukadram for me.


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    #52
    posturingpat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭posturingpat


    Horse should be too good,Joseph won't need much energy to steer him round in my opinion.


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    #53
    jimjamcos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭jimjamcos


    posturingpat wrote: »
    Horse should be too good,Joseph won't need much energy to steer him round in my opinion.

    Very likely that he will prove too good but he's not that far ahead based on the bare form so far. He beat Kingston Hill by 1.5l in the Derby while Mukhadram beat the same horse 4l in the Eclipse, albeit over a shorter trip with Kingston Hill getting a questionable ride.

    We will definitively find out if Australia is as good as they say on Wednesday. Great race in store.


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    #54
    jake66
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭jake66


    I think J.OB has done well to maintain his weight as well as he has for a tall lad, but you have to feel that his future might be over fences. Ballydoyle are turning out more NH recently.
    Personally I would like Seamie getting the top job but I cant see that happening now, passed over too many times. I know he is on a very good retainer and he must be the most loyal member of staff in the yard.
    With regard to Heffernan and O Donoghue getting spare rides, at least Seamie is picking up a good few but O Donoghue is getting nothing at all.
    Colm is only 34, you have to wonder would he be better off at another yard or free lancing as he only has about 80 rides this year. Maybe there is another reason that we dont know about for his lack of rides but it isn,t his weight. A jockey this good should be getting more rides/winners...


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    #55
    posturingpat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭posturingpat


    I too think Joey can only go on for another season or 2 on the flat and his dad's trying to get some ammo ready for him when he goes to the national hunt scene.

    Hard to know who'd get the job if Joey goes, i can't see Heffernan or Colm ever getting it and Moore would then be the most obvious but he aint going to leave Stoute.?

    Surely a situation of using "best available" isn't acceptable at this level? What about Soumillon? He's a top rider with a winners mindset and doesn't seem to be as eccentric as he used to be? Though it is hard to see him moving to Tipperary and riding out on a wet windy morning. There aint exactly a whole host of great riders out there. I'd be a fan of Wayne Lordans and Fran Berrys but hard to see either of them getting it with there relative lack of wins at the very top level although Lordans exploits on Slade power will do him no harm and i think Berry getting dropped by Oxx rules him out.


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    #56
    Andalucia
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Andalucia


    surely this is reaching a stage where its becoming a safety issue both for Joseph and for other jockeys involved in the race?

    He couldn't do 9 stone today in Dundalk, put up 1 lb overweight on the maiden winner, not sure when he last actually did ride at a proper 9 stone

    Yet he goes to rock up to York next week at 8 stone 12 - is he going to use a saddle at all? He might weigh out at 8.12, but there is no way he can weigh in at that weight

    I'd dread to see his daily eating diary - add in the fact he runs five miles a day, together with sauna sweating, he must have moments where he is lightheaded - not the ideal scenario trying to control a ton of horseflesh

    strange one with O'Donoghue allright, top class jockey, he should follow the lead of McDonogh and get some UK rides when no racing in Ireland


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    #57
    bit of a bogey
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭bit of a bogey


    Peintre Celebre wrote: »
    This is nowhere near right. Nearly all of them are owned by Ann Marie, Ana got a nice ride on Michaelmas alright last week and won but nearly all of the rest are in her mother's colours or for James Nash. A look through their rides on Timeform would confirm it

    I'm not going to bother posting a history but they are quite clearly getting rides from outside the mothers ownership.

    andyman wrote: »
    I wouldn't say they're limited jockeys either. A bit harsh a statement to make about two young jockeys, Ana especially.
    I agree that Ana looks the better of the two. Maybe in time she will develop but both Ana and Sarah are getting very privileged rides for their current capability.


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    #58
    jake66
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭jake66


    McDonogh could be the man for the top job alright..


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    #59
    Peintre Celebre
    Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Peintre Celebre


    bit of a bogey wrote: »
    I'm not going to bother posting a history but they are quite clearly getting rides from outside the mothers ownership.



    I agree that Ana looks the better of the two. Maybe in time she will develop but both Ana and Sarah are getting very privileged rides for their current capability.

    No need to, I've already outlined it. As I said you can view all the rides on Timeform, there are nowhere near as many rides on Coolmore owned horses as you're implying.


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    #60
    curioser
    Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭curioser


    This discussion seems to be on a loop. Found this post of mine from last June in another thread about Ballydoyle -

    ]The thing that intrigues me about Ballydoyle is the jockey arrangements in the short to medium term.

    Today's Racing Post has a note on Joseph's mount in the 1st at Fairyhouse that there may be 2 lb overweight, thus repeating the pattern of last season where Joseph only did 9 stone at the weekends, consistently doing a minimum 9st 2lb midweek.

    As he is still only 21 and probably still gaining weight, it may be that his long term future as a jockey is not on the flat, which leads me to believe that Aidan's recent clutch of NH horses is at attempt to find another Istabraaq with the medium term (3 to 4 year?)objective of providing a Cheltenham win, maybe in the Champion Hurdle, for Joseph before he retires as a jockey and takes up the role of assistant trainer to Aidan.     [/B]

    I shudder to think what he is going to have to do to make 8 st 12.


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    #61
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users Posts: 16,461 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    I am sure that he will starve himself and if he doesn't make the weight, he will come pretty close to making it. That isn't the issue here though. The issue is that riding a horse at the highest level is incredibly intensive on a body. The question is whether Joseph actually will have the physical strength to be able to ride the horse, particularly if there's a hard drive out at the finish. That would be my concern, that combined with the effects of starvation/dehydration on concentration and perception.


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