Who rides Australia at York?

Andalucia

Joey can't do weight, Moore on Telescope

Seamie or Colm aren't trusted on the foreign tracks

I suppose the Dettori love in will be rekindled?

the groutch

Has Heffernan suddenly become a bad jockey?
I'd assume he'd be the automatic choice after Joseph & Ryan.

Andalucia

Not at all, but he's just not fashionable

Maybe with Moore unavailable he might get the chance, but I'm not sure - maybe its down to a lack of experience on the UK tracks, they might want to go with a local jock

FIVE2_THREE

Tom Queally or Christoph Soumillon

rossom

Would be shocked if Tom Queally was in the running myself.

Soumillon might ride. I'd personally give it Seamie. Been a stalwart at Ballydoyle for years and I've always felt he's quite an underrated jockey. Has plenty of big races to his name including 6 Classics and I'd certainly have no qualms legging him up if I was the owner.

Francie Barrett

You'd have to think it'll be Seamie, he's typically third choice jockey behind Joseph and Ryan.

The real question though is what's the future for Joseph? If you look at the Ballydoyle rides for the last few weeks, it's Seamie who has been taking all the rides that are carrying 9 stone. Is this Joseph's last season as first choice stable jockey at Ballydoyle?

the groutch

his brother Donnacha (who Joseph has openly admitted is a better jockey) is being groomed as a long-term replacement.
it's just a matter of how long, I'd say Joseph will step down at the end of next year.

FIVE2_THREE

rossom wrote: »

Would be shocked if Tom Queally was in the running myself.

Soumillon might ride. I'd personally give it Seamie. Been a stalwart at Ballydoyle for years and I've always felt he's quite an underrated jockey. Has plenty of big races to his name including 6 Classics and I'd certainly have no qualms legging him up if I was the owner.

I tossed those two names out there for the fun of it. if Tom got the call I wouldn't be surprised. He did start out by ridding work for Aidan at Ballydoyle and He knows what it's like to be under presser.

FIVE2_THREE

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You'd have to think it'll be Seamie, he's typically third choice jockey behind Joseph and Ryan.

The real question though is what's the future for Joseph? If you look at the Ballydoyle rides for the last few weeks, it's Seamie who has been taking all the rides that are carrying 9 stone. Is this Joseph's last season as first choice stable jockey at Ballydoyle?

John Magnier doesn't want to appoint or pay for another stable jockey.Joe was kind of like a default stable jockey. long term plans must be drawn up because I don't see Don O'Brien being a solution. He is more so following the crowd. his other three siblings are jockeys so he took to the saddle to.

cack_handed

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

John Magnier doesn't want to appoint or pay for another stable jockey.Joe was kind of like a default stable jockey. long term plans must be drawn up because I don't see Don O'Brien being a solution. He is more so following the crowd. his other three siblings are jockeys so he took to the saddle to.

It's not that i'm doubting you, but has Magnier explicity stated that? I cant really agree with that line of thinking, i'd always want a proven retained jockey in a top stable....but then he's the billionaire supremo so he may know better than me

chinguetti

You would think that they'll pick someone who maybe free in future times if they aim Australia at other age for all races if JPOB can't do the weight again. With Coolmore probably going down the line of speed over stamina, a G1 over 10f is the only thing they'll worry about for now.

FIVE2_THREE

cack_handed wrote: »

It's not that i'm doubting you, but has Magnier explicity stated that? I cant really agree with that line of thinking, i'd always want a proven retained jockey in a top stable....but then he's the billionaire supremo so he may know better than me

Well He has stated that He prefers things the way they are currently going.given how his last two retained jockeys quit on him.

tipptom

I often wonder why Seamie and Colm don't pick up more spare rides for the the two top experienced jockeys that they are.

colmokeeffe

ATR are reporting on Twitter that "Joseph O'Brien tells @AtTheRaces he may yet ride Australia in the Juddmonte International at York - full interview coming up later." Maybe he'll declare overweight?

rossom

colmokeeffe wrote: »

ATR are reporting on Twitter that "Joseph O'Brien tells @AtTheRaces he may yet ride Australia in the Juddmonte International at York - full interview coming up later." Maybe he'll declare overweight?

Doubt that'll happen. Think he'll try and make 8-12. May come up 1 or 2lb overweight but how can you justify allowing a jockey to knowingly put up 2lb overweight well in advance when serious breeding money is on the table. If Australia got beaten by a short margin with 2lb overweight it would be a disaster.

colmokeeffe

rossom wrote: »

Doubt that'll happen. Think he'll try and make 8-12. May come up 1 or 2lb overweight but how can you justify allowing a jockey to knowingly put up 2lb overweight well in advance when serious breeding money is on the table. If Australia got beaten by a short margin with 2lb overweight it would be a disaster.

He's riding Magician in Arlington Saturday, Does anyone know what weight he has to do for that race?

tipptom

Feel for the lad,was talking to someone the other day and joseph and his sister pulled up at Supermacs after racing and she had her supermacs and he had a few segments of a mandiran orange.


Don't mind JOB as a rider but this is something I have not seen in racing before on a consistent basis with one jockey,they even were declaring it at declarations stage last year,


Amazed that he can still do 9st this year and think its time he should move on and start jocking Robbie Power of.

FIVE2_THREE

colmokeeffe wrote: »

He's riding Magician in Arlington Saturday, Does anyone know what weight he has to do for that race?

126lbs/9 stone

Francie Barrett

He already cost Tapestry the Oaks after weighing in 1.6lb overweight and being beaten narrowly.

Andalucia

Its a proverbial struggle for Joseph to o nine stone now, he can just about manage 9 stone 1

if he was riding in the UK full time, there is no way the stewards would put up with it like their Irish counterparts

Granted must punters know the situation with regards to his weight, but still its treating the punters with contempt to allow it to continue without sanction

I've said it before, but his constant wasting and use of postage stamp saddles to get near the weight is bound to have a detrimental impact on his ability to ride out a close finish amongst the top jocks

the groutch

Andalucia wrote: »

Granted must punters know the situation with regards to his weight, but still its treating the punters with contempt to allow it to continue without sanction

I've said it before, but his constant wasting and use of postage stamp saddles to get near the weight is bound to have a detrimental impact on his ability to ride out a close finish amongst the top jocks

tbh I don't give two ****s about how it effects his riding skills, or how punters feel about it.
it's the potential effects on his health that I care about.

andyman

the groutch wrote: »

tbh I don't give two ****s about how it effects his riding skills, or how punters feel about it.
it's the potential effects on his health that I care about.

This for me. It must be a horrifying ordeal for him.

tipptom

Francie Barrett wrote: »

He already cost Tapestry the Oaks after weighing in 1.6lb overweight and being beaten narrowly.

And have a look at where his stirrups(couldn't even call it a saddle) ended up in the finish of the race as well.

Peintre Celebre

Francie Barrett wrote: »

He already cost Tapestry the Oaks after weighing in 1.6lb overweight and being beaten narrowly.

I hate how matter of factly this is said. How do you know Bracelet wouldn't have battled if he got to her?

bit of a bogey

rossom wrote: »

Doubt that'll happen. Think he'll try and make 8-12. May come up 1 or 2lb overweight but how can you justify allowing a jockey to knowingly put up 2lb overweight well in advance when serious breeding money is on the table. If Australia got beaten by a short margin with 2lb overweight it would be a disaster.

Completely agree. Would be outrageous to put up overweight.

On jockey order, I'm personally a big fan of O'Donoghue. I'd have no problem putting him up on one of mine and would have him ahead of Heffernan.

bit of a bogey

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

John Magnier doesn't want to appoint or pay for another stable jockey.Joe was kind of like a default stable jockey. long term plans must be drawn up because I don't see Don O'Brien being a solution. He is more so following the crowd. his other three siblings are jockeys so he took to the saddle to.

Don't think I'd agree with this. I don't know John Magnier but would be extremely surprised if paying another jockey was a pet hate of his. Its too valuable an industry.

They weren't afraid to throw the money at Lester and I think they would do the same again if Joseph wasn't around. If Donnacha shows any sort of natural development, he's a certainty to replace Joseph, especially with the loyalty O'Brien is showing to the others. Joseph wasn't ready for the job when he got it and Sarah and Ana are being given ridiculous opportunities.

Peintre Celebre

bit of a bogey wrote: »

Don't think I'd agree with this. I don't know John Magnier but would be extremely surprised if paying another jockey was a pet hate of his. Its too valuable an industry.

They weren't afraid to throw the money at Lester and I think they would do the same again if Joseph wasn't around. If Donnacha shows any sort of natural development, he's a certainty to replace Joseph, especially with the loyalty O'Brien is showing to the others. Joseph wasn't ready for the job when he got it and Sarah and Ana are being given ridiculous opportunities.

What are these ridiculous opportunities?

bit of a bogey

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

What are these ridiculous opportunities?

They are both limited jockeys who are getting mounts for well bred horses in the yard - for both McManus and Magnier.

FIVE2_THREE

bit of a bogey wrote: »

Don't think I'd agree with this. I don't know John Magnier but would be extremely surprised if paying another jockey was a pet hate of his. Its too valuable an industry.

They weren't afraid to throw the money at Lester and I think they would do the same again if Joseph wasn't around. If Donnacha shows any sort of natural development, he's a certainty to replace Joseph, especially with the loyalty O'Brien is showing to the others. Joseph wasn't ready for the job when he got it and Sarah and Ana are being given ridiculous opportunities.

Yes Lester Piggott who is the greatest Jockey of ALL TIME. can you blame them ? When Frankie was let go by the Maktoums He went to Ballydoyle to ride work. If John wanted a stable jockey he would have inked a deal then. The man said he doesn't want one.

FIVE2_THREE

bit of a bogey wrote: »

They are both limited jockeys who are getting mounts for well bred horses in the yard - for both McManus and Magnier.

Most of their mounts come from their mother.

bit of a bogey

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Most of their mounts come from their mother.

A lot of them have but nowhere near all of them. Any apprentice would be overcome to get mounts they do.

bit of a bogey

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Yes Lester Piggott who is the greatest Jockey of ALL TIME. can you blame them ? When Frankie was let go by the Maktoums He went to Ballydoyle to ride work. If John wanted a stable jockey he would have inked a deal then. The man said he doesn't want one.

Agreed. That's because they have Joesph - Not because Magnier isn't willing to spend his pocket money.

Peintre Celebre

bit of a bogey wrote: »

They are both limited jockeys who are getting mounts for well bred horses in the yard - for both McManus and Magnier.

This is nowhere near right. Nearly all of them are owned by Ann Marie, Ana got a nice ride on Michaelmas alright last week and won but nearly all of the rest are in her mother's colours or for James Nash. A look through their rides on Timeform would confirm it

andyman

I wouldn't say they're limited jockeys either. A bit harsh a statement to make about two young jockeys, Ana especially.

nuckeythompson

the groutch wrote: »

tbh I don't give two ****s about how it effects his riding skills, or how punters feel about it.
it's the potential effects on his health that I care about.

I totally agree with the above, reminded me of a book I read last yeak about an Irisj Jock in the USA. The simple game , an Irish Jockey's Memoir by Tom Foley. The wasting that goes on the US is horrifying . The constant wasting is the biggest thing to put me off trying to be a jockey

nuckeythompson

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Most of their mounts come from their mother.

This is so true in alot of way than you may think. Had the good fortune of working there for a short period. She is the BOSS and don't forget it. In many ways she runs the place and makes alot of decisions and is happy to stay in the background. A battleaxe would be too nice a name for her but I think she has to be . She nearly drove Murtagh back on the drink

FIVE2_THREE

bit of a bogey wrote: »

Agreed. That's because they have Joesph - Not because Magnier isn't willing to spend his pocket money.

They don't have Joe. as you see the sun is setting on his career. Spencer and Murtagh were the last two retained riders for Ballydoyle both burned Magnier and left. Joe is and was never a long term solution.

FIVE2_THREE

Heavy is the head that wears the crown
spencer quits
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/2354969/Spencer-quits-as-Ballydoyle-number-one.html

Murtagh quits
http://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/world/2010/1108/272881-murtaghj1/

Can you blame Magnier for not wanting a stable Jockey ? Jockeys all say they want to ride good horses but when they are given the keys to the kingdom the crown becomes to heavy.

andyman

And what about Fallon?

nuckeythompson

Serious pressure there for anybody working there, Murtagh was the fact that he had to play second fiddle to Joe and he and AM did not get on.
Spencer was too young IMO for that position with the pressure that comes with it

nuckeythompson

andyman wrote: »

And what about Fallon?

Fallon handled that job better than anyone, but then he got caught out with the sniff

tipptom

nuckeythompson wrote: »

This is so true in alot of way than you may think. Had the good fortune of working there for a short period. She is the BOSS and don't forget it. In many ways she runs the place and makes alot of decisions and is happy to stay in the background. A battleaxe would be too nice a name for her but I think she has to be . She nearly drove Murtagh back on the drink

That's interesting about AM,didnt know she was that heavily involved,was she out when there was work being ridden for instance and in what way did she annoy Johnnie?

Harry Angstrom

I'd prefer to see either Seamie or O'Donoghue onboard Australia. There's no bullsh!t about either of them. Soumillon would be going overboard in trying to make himself look clever, Frankie isn't the jockey he was, Frankel made Queally look good. Heffernan and O'Donoghue would get the job done with the minimum of fuss.

solwhit2

It's a shame seamie or colm never got the main job ,both very capable and keep's it simple while Joseph will be stuck up the inside with nowhere to go.Apart from Moore and Hughes the pool of top class jockey's is fairly small.

cack_handed

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Heavy is the head that wears the crown
spencer quits
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/2354969/Spencer-quits-as-Ballydoyle-number-one.html

Murtagh quits
http://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/world/2010/1108/272881-murtaghj1/

Can you blame Magnier for not wanting a stable Jockey ? Jockeys all say they want to ride good horses but when they are given the keys to the kingdom the crown becomes to heavy.

I don't really get your angle on this issue. Murtagh gave them 3 good years (19 G1s in one of them iirc), it's not as if he was a failure, very far from it. In fact, bar Spencer all of their jockeys have been unqualified successes. Also, unless you're an insider and can tell us differently, my understanding is that Murtagh had some legitimate complaints about the Ballydoyle set-up. I recall Mick Kinane expressing reservations about the set-up there too - I'll provide a link if you need - so maybe it's not all down to the jockeys in Ballydoyle, there's two sides to this complex story.

Lastly, Magnier does have a stable jockey - Joseph. For how long more is the question we're debating, probably longer than most would bargain for imho

FIVE2_THREE

cack_handed wrote: »

I don't really get your angle on this issue. Murtagh gave them 3 good years (19 G1s in one of them iirc), it's not as if he was a failure, very far from it. In fact, bar Spencer all of their jockeys have been unqualified successes. Also, unless you're an insider and can tell us differently, my understanding is that Murtagh had some legitimate complaints about the Ballydoyle set-up. I recall Mick Kinane expressing reservations about the set-up there too - I'll provide a link if you need - so maybe it's not all down to the jockeys in Ballydoyle, there's two sides to this complex story.

Lastly, Magnier does have a stable jockey - Joseph. For how long more is the question we're debating, probably longer than most would bargain for imho

WELL I don't have an angle but IF I did I would say I agree with Magnier. why ink a deal with these guys if they're going to quit. Joe is not a stable rider. He has no contract with Coolmore to ride because if He did He would be in france to ride for Fabre on the big days or in the states to ride for Pletcher or Baffert on Big days. He may have a deal with his father to ride like Wayne Lordan has with David. but no stable owner would ink a contract with a stable rider who can only make weight 1/4 of the time

tipptom

andyman wrote: »

And what about Fallon?

Top Jockey still,very little feck ups as jockeys go and matured.
I think if things don't pick up for him besides the spike earlier that frustration may make him call it a day,rumoured to have bought a place around Moneygall.

Pinesky

Why not go for the jockey with the best record ,who also delivered the best ever ride, in the race .i know he's 74 but he'd still ride the likes of Fallon into a coma.

Peintre Celebre

Joseph has confirmed he'll ride and can do the weight

tryfix

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Joseph has confirmed he'll ride and can do the weight

He gets on well with the horse, and hopefully the horse is up to beating what is a very decent looking field. 6 GP1 winners and the King George 2nd and 4th are as good as GP1 winners on ratings.

Really looking forward to this race.:)

jimjamcos

Hardly an ideal situation even if he makes the weight. The wasting is bound to affect JOB. Mukadram for me.