Yet another 'wrong way' motorway accident

Jimmy Bottles

For once it would be nice if the RSA would focus on something else than just speeding and drink driving.

No matter how many signs or turns which make it hard for drivers to go down the wrong ramp, we continually have drivers on the wrong side of the road.

Happened to me a few weeks ago where a jeep was coming up the off ramp from the Carrigaline Road down into Rochestown. Very close to having a head on.

dantastic

I passed the scene that evening after the southbound was reopened. The distance she traveled would not suggest just a temporary lapse of concentration or anything.

This is all of our fault. From family members not stopping unfit drivers, doctors signing off and guards just being interested in speeding. I have myself phoned the guards on 3 occasions thinking the driver was drunk off their game when it was infact an elderly driver. The guards were quick to respond to a possible drunk driver but I got some serious attitude over the phone after they had stopped the cars and phoned me back.

So yea, I cannot see how a custodial sentence for the driver can be avoided. If she does escape without I will have lost my last bit of faith in the legal system.

cgc5483

dantastic wrote: »

I passed the scene that evening after the southbound was reopened. The distance she traveled would not suggest just a temporary lapse of concentration or anything.

Probably panicked and didn't know what to do.

I've seen one similar instance where the driver had gone at least 4-5 miles the wrong way. Was on M6 between Moate and Athlone on a Friday night. Driving behind a car that was coming up behind an artic. The driver in front signalled to change into the right hand lane. As he started the maneuver the artic driver starts to swere on the road and prevents the car from going out into the lane. Looked crazy and dangerous from the artic driver until a second later we saw a car travelling in wrong direction in the right hand lane. Without the artic doing what they did the car would have smashed straight into the other.

Jesus.

dantastic wrote: »

I have myself phoned the guards on 3 occasions thinking the driver was drunk off their game when it was infact an elderly driver. The guards were quick to respond to a possible drunk driver but I got some serious attitude over the phone after they had stopped the cars and phoned me back.

I don't want to get into another argument but it serves you right. The Guards have enough to be doing without being inundated by busybodies with nothing better to do. I'm not surprised they got angry with you.

Some people have to realise that they can reduce motoring in Ireland to a complete and total Big Brother, take you by the hand, nanny State system yet you'll still get incidents like this happening. Whenever you have tens of thousands of cars travelling at speed every day, there will be accidents. You can reduce them as much as you can but they will always occur.

Folk have jumped onto this case without mentioning that there were probably 100 thousand other motorists on the road that day, often driving at high speeds, and there were no serious incidents. Its sensationalism and the "Speed kills" revenue collectors love that their minions are out there doing their work for them.

SpaceTime

One simple and cheap measure would be to paint large arrows on the road surface at all junctions on the slip roads and on the motorway carriageways after and before junctions too.

Most people would get the hint if they're driving against large painted arrows.

Also all slipway entrances and exit signs and markings need to be consistent. That's not the case at the moment. There are various different eras of design in use.

djimi

SpaceTime wrote: »

One simple and cheap measure would be to paint large arrows on the road surface at all junctions on the slip roads and on the motorway carriageways after and before junctions too.

Most people would get the hint if they're driving against large painted arrows.

Also all slipway entrances and exit signs and markings need to be consistent. That's not the case at the moment. There are various different eras of design in use.

Sadly if a big **** off "danger turn back" sign doesn't do the trick then I don't see Road markings helping. Judging by roundabouts I don't l think many people look at them either way.

ardmacha

dantastic wrote: »

So yea, I cannot see how a custodial sentence for the driver can be avoided. If she does escape without I will have lost my last bit of faith in the legal system.

A conviction is important but a custodial sentence would only cost the taxpayer money, it would not have the least effect on either the probability of a re-offence or of anyone else doing this. It would be more useful to get her to do one of those TV ads.

SpaceTime wrote:

One simple and cheap measure would be to paint large arrows on the road surface at all junctions on the slip roads and on the motorway carriageways after and before junctions too.

While the point about people also ignoring this is valid, arrows are cheap to provide and I cannot see any reason why they are not there, even if only 1% of those off course noticed them.

SpaceTime

One thing to be aware of is that a symbol like an arrow facing you or a visual cue requires far less cognitive processing than a text based sign like "wrong way"

You need both and it needs to be consistent.

No amount of signage will prevent every incidence of this though. All it takes is someone to have a momentary brain glitch (can happen to anyone any time) and you've a problem.

Blazer

All roads leading off the motorway should have those spikes to prevent cars going down them.
Also everyone should have to resit their driving test at retirement age. If you don't pass then you're off the road immediately. The whole driving thing is just one big joke in this country.

freshpopcorn

I'm from the locality and know the road well enough.
From entering the motorway going in the wrong direction she drove approximately 3.5km and ended up in the fastest lane of the motorway. In doing this she passed signs saying wrong was turn backback and nemerous motorists warning her of what she had done and she kept driving at a high speed. It wasn't like she was slowly driving down the hard shoulder.( which I know would have being wrong but the result mightn't have being as fatal.)
Even where the Land Cruiser stopped in relation to the Golf after the collision would show that the the Land Cruiser was travelling at good enough speed as well.( It wasn't like she was tipping along the road)
The woman in question is from a nearby village. I don't know her but I know of the family and she would be from a from a farm. So, this might explain her a having a Land Cruiser.
When I first heard of the collision and it was an elderly driver I was expecting the person to be 80+. Most 70 year olds I know are good safe drivers.
Your heart would really go out to the young mans family because of one persons recklessness. In my opinion this is as reckless as drink driving. I say the woman in question received serious enough injuries and if she does come round. I hope she is found guilty of dangerous driving and she loose her licence for life.( I doubt she'd ever get insurance again anyway) I don't know will she ever see the inside of a jail cell tough.

R.I.P to the young man.

quadrifoglio verde

Jesus. wrote: »

I don't want to get into another argument but it serves you right. The Guards have enough to be doing without being inundated by busybodies with nothing better to do. I'm not surprised they got angry with you.

Some people have to realise that they can reduce motoring in Ireland to a complete and total Big Brother, take you by the hand, nanny State system yet you'll still get incidents like this happening. Whenever you have tens of thousands of cars travelling at speed every day, there will be accidents. You can reduce them as much as you can but they will always occur.

Folk have jumped onto this case without mentioning that there were probably 100 thousand other motorists on the road that day, often driving at high speeds, and there were no serious incidents. Its sensationalism and the "Speed kills" revenue collectors love that their minions are out there doing their work for them.

I don't see what mr dantastic has done wrong. He rang in drivers that were acting in a dangerous manor. Have you ever drove behind a drunk driver?
It's scary and feckin dangerous.

If you haven't, follow some drunk person walking on the street, you stop when they stop, you bash into the lamp post when they do and you stumble when they stumble and now imagine being behind someone driving a car with drink on them.

The only reason why we've jumped onto this thread is because it's stupid and dangerous. Unfortunately there was no "busybodies" on the road to call in this idiot in time and now someone is dead as a result.

I'd much rather if the whole speed kills thing was dropped. Driving fast never killed anyone. Not knowing when to drive slow kills. Not paying attention kills.

visual

But we spend all our money on buying speed detection equipment to shoot fish in a barrel.

Jesus.

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

I don't see what mr dantastic has done wrong. He rang in drivers that were acting in a dangerous manor. Have you ever drove behind a drunk driver?
If you haven't, follow some drunk person walking on the street, you stop when they stop, you bash into the lamp post when they do and you stumble when they stumble and now imagine being behind someone driving a car with drink on them.

But they weren't drunk drivers! And they weren't acting in a dangerous manner according to the Police who rang him back quite angry with him wasting their time.

What's happened here is quite clear. Mr "I own the road and I'm perfect" Petrolhead has seen three people doing something totally innocuous and has rang the Cops instead of getting on with his life. The Cops have gone out and investigated and they've found no drink and no problems hence the annoyance with him.

The fact that you've just disregarded the fact that there was no drink involved and the Guards reaction to the poster, only to ask have I ever driven behind a drunk driver shows that you're no better. Hearing about people going about their lives and having cranks and self-righteous muppets ringing up the Cops every 10 minutes to have them "investigated" makes me annoyed, it really does. I absolutely cannot stand people like that. Its extremely underhand and indeed cowardly the way they behave.

Thankfully most people and motorists are not like that and it just seems to be the preserve of people who think the roads are there for their enjoyment because of their hobby rather than everyday people trying to get from A to B and live their lives. The vast majority of Irish people are fine on the roads IMO and that comes from 25 years driving experience. They're no better or worse overall than anywhere else and shouldn't be slated morning, noon and night on here by a small bunch of howlers.

quadrifoglio verde

Jesus. wrote: »

But they weren't drunk drivers! And they weren't acting in a dangerous manner according to the Police who rang him back quite angry with him wasting their time.

What's happened here is quite clear. Mr "I own the road and I'm perfect" Petrolhead has seen three people doing something totally innocuous and has rang the Cops instead of getting on with his life. The Cops have gone out and investigated and they've found no drink and no problems hence the annoyance with him.

The fact that you've just disregarded the fact that there was no drink involved and the Guards reaction to the poster, only to ask have I ever driven behind a drunk driver shows that you're no better. Hearing about people going about their lives and having cranks and self-righteous muppets ringing up the Cops every 10 minutes to have them "investigated" makes me annoyed, it really does. I absolutely cannot stand people like that. Its extremely underhand and indeed cowardly the way they behave.

Thankfully most people and motorists are not like that and it just seems to be the preserve of people who think the roads are there for their enjoyment because of their hobby rather than everyday people trying to get from A to B and live their lives. The vast majority of Irish people are fine on the roads IMO and that comes from 25 years driving experience. They're no better or worse overall than anywhere else and shouldn't be slated morning, noon and night on here by a small bunch of howlers.

But he thought they were driving in such a way that they driving without due care and attention. I've drove behind some people that I've thought were drunk, braking for no apparent reason on the straight, speeding up and slowing down and veering out into the opposite lane and back to the ditch, only when I overtook them when it was safe to do so, they were fairly old and of pensionable age. Now maybe, they were drunk as well, but either way, they weren't driving in a safe manner.

daveohdave

SpaceTime wrote: »

Most people would get the hint if they're driving against large painted arrows.

They certainly don't in car parks.

Jesus.

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

But he thought they were driving in such a way that they driving without due care and attention. I've drove behind some people that I've thought were drunk, braking for no apparent reason on the straight, speeding up and slowing down and veering out into the opposite lane and back to the ditch, only when I overtook them when it was safe to do so, they were fairly old and of pensionable age. Now maybe, they were drunk as well, but either way, they weren't driving in a safe manner.

Yes he thought that but he was completely wrong..........thrice! They probably crossed over the white line by half an inch or something :rolleyes:

He has no right to waste police time in such a manner. The Cops had to go out, find the driver, question them and no doubt get an angry civilian asking why the hell they'd been hunted down in such a manner. Then having to apologise, go back to the barracks and write a report, all of which would've taken God knows how many minutes or hours all because some clown thought he seen something he didn't. No wonder they rang him back rather irate.

If eejits up on their high horse's think that's being an upstanding and responsible citizen then they need to come crashing down to earth big time.

I hope the Guards keep the numbers of such serial complainants and after say three episodes of wasting police time, the perpetrator is issued a summons. That'd make them concentrate on their own driving - which is probably as sh*te as anyone else's - pretty quick.

dr.fuzzenstein

Jesus. wrote: »

Yes he thought that but he was completely wrong..........thrice! They probably crossed over the white line by half an inch or something :rolleyes:

He has no right to waste police time in such a manner. The Cops had to go out, find the driver, question them and no doubt get an angry civilian asking why the hell they'd been hunted down in such a manner. Then having to apologise, go back to the barracks and write a report, all of which would've taken God knows how many minutes or hours all because some clown thought he seen something he didn't. No wonder they rang him back rather irate.

If eejits up on their high horse's think that's being an upstanding and responsible citizen then they need to come crashing down to earth big time.

I hope the Guards keep the numbers of such serial complainants and after say three episodes of wasting police time, the perpetrator is issued a summons. That'd make them concentrate on their own driving - which is probably as sh*te as anyone else's - pretty quick.

Maybe the cop was a lazy sh*te and didn't want to investigate why auld Mr O'Flaherty was driving in such a manner.
Maybe he had a medical condition, maybe he was senile or maybe he was just incompetent.
Maybe the cop knew the old git shouldn't be on the road, he's seen him veering all over the road and narrowly missing other cars and thought "Ah shure, tis grand, how else is auld Mr O'Flaherty going to get to the shop to buy his 20 Woodbines"
And this kind of thinking has to stop. I don't give a ripped rat's arsehole why someone shouldn't drive, drunk, medication, extreme age, mental illness, basic incompetenceor whatever else takes your fancy.
The cops and everyone else has to get it in their thick skulls that ALL of the above mean YOU SHOULDN'T FCUKING DRIVE!
Less of the "ah begosh and begorrah, shure t'is grand, now!"

Esel

So tempted at this stage...

Add Jesus. to Ignore list

daveohdave

Esel wrote: »

So tempted at this stage...

Add Jesus. to Ignore list

Done ages ago.

Jesus.

Doc, the truth is, most of the people banging on about other drivers are nearly always just as bad themselves - if not worse. I've seen it before, people F-ing and blinding about other drivers and how they shouldn't be on the road when they're bloody brutal themselves.

An example would be when the guy put up dash cam footage on here a couple of months back. He was on the M50 and a Punto cut him off and then brake-tested him or something and he was 100% convinced that he did nothing wrong and the other guy was a lunatic. Everyone immediately pointed out to him how he was initially at fault and was driving like a headcase himself and the thread went on for pages. He couldn't be told. He kept insisting he'd done nothing wrong. There was just no getting through to him.

And there's the problem. Once people get behind the wheel of a car, they think they're flawless and can't accept that they're not perfect drivers themselves. In many cases the high horse crowd are probably worse than anyone. There's a lot of bullsh*t on this Board from people who seem to be always in the right and everyone else are dangerous maniacs and should be taken off the roads. If you were to put a secret dashcam in their cars though you'd soon find out the truth.

And it wouldn't be pleasant viewing

Andrewf20

Its happened to me also - exit 13 (Dundrum I think) on the M50 where theres 2 roundabouts under the M50. A young woman in a black Punto comes around the round about the wrong way. Nearly ploughed head on. Thankfully split second swerving saved the day. Crazy. Some people have no cop on.

Drummerboy08

This all comes down to driver education. We're not educated or even tested on a Motorway, and until that happens we will continue to have accidents like this.

Introduce a theory class into 5th/6th year classes, introduce mandatory motorway training and testing, introduce a mandatory re-test at a certain age, introduce a mandatory medical at a certain age, and proper enforcement on the roads - not just of speed limits - and maybe, just maybe the carnage on our roads will be cut down.

Spending millions on a contract with a company to provide mobile speed cameras who then proceed to place these cameras in some of the safest places in the country is the simple revenue generator that many people claim it to be. Until the RSA/Gay Byrne/Minister for Transport actually wakes up to this realisation then accidents like this will continue.

V.W.L 11

First and foremost R.I.P to the deceased,condolences to his family!now for the harsh bit,i dont care what gender/age the other driver was,she should be locked up for manslaughter at the very least!reading this thread as a non relative is upsetting i cant bare to imagine the family of the lad who died!that woman should feel the full strength of the law and have it imposed on her,i mean to blow a car up into the air the head on speed must have been extraordinary!!!drivers/doctors they need to be held to account for their actions,i'll stop before i say something i'll regret.

bladespin

Take it from a bike rider, some people never look; signs, road markings, other vehicles (even some with blue lights and sirens) it just doesn't matter, the only way to educate these 'drivers' is to make a few examples with punitive penalties so we all know to take notice.

Sheldons Brain

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

This all comes down to driver education. We're not educated or even tested on a Motorway, and until that happens we will continue to have accidents like this.

Introduce a theory class into 5th/6th year classes, introduce mandatory motorway training and testing, introduce a mandatory re-test at a certain age, introduce a mandatory medical at a certain age, and proper enforcement on the roads - not just of speed limits - and maybe, just maybe the carnage on our roads will be cut down.

Education is very desirable. But motorways are the easiest of roads to drive on, any person with good control of their vehicle and proper observation can do it. The issues of observation arise not only on the motorway and people don't need to be tested on motorways to identify this.

Spending millions on a contract with a company to provide mobile speed cameras who then proceed to place these cameras in some of the safest places in the country is the simple revenue generator that many people claim it to be. Until the RSA/Gay Byrne/Minister for Transport actually wakes up to this realisation then accidents like this will continue.

The regulation of incompetent drivers and those whose deliberately ignore driving rules and regulations is two different issues. Both pyromaniacs and people leaving on irons cause fires, but these both need to dealt with in different ways.

the dark phantom

Its ignorance that is the root cause of this, There is a breed of people in Ireland whom no matter what signage is in front of them are just too ignorant to pay attention to them. The only way to get through to these people is to have the RSA give advice on road rules from the alter at the end of mass.. I'm actually being serious, The priests are about the only people able to get through to the elderly..

Dublin Red Devil

Drink was a factor I suppose

the dark phantom

ardmacha wrote: »

A conviction is important but a custodial sentence would only cost the taxpayer money, it would not have the least effect on either the probability of a re-offence or of anyone else doing this. It would be more useful to get her to do one of those TV ads.



While the point about people also ignoring this is valid, arrows are cheap to provide and I cannot see any reason why they are not there, even if only 1% of those off course noticed them.

I think our tax payers money would be well spent putting the driver responsible into prison, As she is from Cork then it would be a stint in Limerick's Women's Prison. She should be punished with a custodial sentence for her stupidity, The death of a young man and the loss of a son cannot be left unpunished.

Esel

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Drink was a factor I suppose

You suppose...

Supposition is a bit too close to superstition in this thread. Especially when you seem to think that alcohol (you did say 'drink') was involved here.

I am more inclined to think that senility / bad eyesight / confusion / mental issues (eg dementia) might be involved. Bad signage and/or bad road design might have had a part to play as well. Wrong-way spikes can be avoided though, especially if your brain is telling you that they are wrong and you are right/know better.

We all probably go into autopilot mode when driving on a motorway, and the very last thing we expect to encounter is a vehicle heading towards us.

Drive in the left lane, overtake in the right lane. If only we could practice what we preach!

SpaceTime

Wrong Way incidents sadly happen everywhere. Even in Germany you'll occasionally get someone doing it.

I encountered someone reversing on the hard shoulder on the Brussels Ring a few months ago!

The best you can do is have very, very clear and consistent markings on junctions that make it as visually obvious as possible. Physical barriers on the road surface probably wouldn't last long in traffic tbh. They're used in some carparks but the weight and volume of traffic would be much lighter.

Red permanently on traffic lights facing the opposite way on off ramps might be an idea too.