Acceptable fat levels during bulk

Zamboni

I appreciate that this is very subjective but just interested before we get into winter. (It was cold this morning).

We all try to stay lean whilst building muscle but we inevitably add a bit of jiggly.
What is the max you will allow yourself to get fat during a bulk?

Do you have a limit?
If so, how do you quantify it?
Must have visibile abs?
Bodyfat percentage? 10,15,20%
Mirror guestimate?
Those 36'' waist jeans?
Airline charging you for two seats?

Or do you do it by season/month/week timelines regardless of fat levels?

LuckyLloyd

I'd imagine the answers you'll get here come from the wrong end of the question - i.e. people will argue why the way they are from one end of the year is acceptable rather than genuinely telling you what the limits they would like (or wished they could) live within are.

martomcg

A usefull convention to use (can't remember where i read it) is to cut untill you're 10% BF and bulk till you hit 15% BF, allowing yourself leeway on either side but never go above 20% BF.

This way you can make good gains and stay relatively lean all year around.

I personally find when i 'bulk' my attitude towards food changes and i tend to eat more crap food which leads to extra unnecessary fat gain.

jive

I aim for adding 0.5lbs-1lb a week and then cut when I hit my arbitrarily decided upon target weight at which point I cut. There is absolutely no need to become a fat mess when bulking despite what many people believe. Fat gain is guaranteed but just eat well and not in an absolutely massive surplus. Track your calories and weight until you know how much you should be eating.

conzy

I added 10kg over 5 months or so and increased all my lifts and put on some decent mass.

But even though I was eating clean my surplus was too high IMO. If I ran a less aggressive surplus I think I could have made the same strength / size gains and had less cutting to do.

I was aiming for 1lb / week gain. Next time I'm probably going to aim for 1lb/month or just increase cals when strength / weight gain stalls.

Its interesting, I wonder at the end of the day what is more effective / fun

A bulk for 20 weeks, add 10kg, cut for 12 weeks lose 8kg. 2kg lean mass added over 32 weeks

B "clean bulk" aka run a tiny surplus for 32 weeks, gain 2 kgs. 2kg of lean mass added over 32 weeks

Eating big and training hard is fun and you have unlimited calories for recovery. but then you have to cut, and being in a deficit for weeks sucks and you will lose strength..

Anyway I'm rambling now. I did option A last winter, leaning more towards option B this winter

Hanley

Once I don't get much above 18% I'm happy.

Blacktie.

martomcg wrote:

A usefull convention to use (can't remember where i read it) is to cut untill you're 10% BF and bulk till you hit 15% BF, allowing yourself leeway on either side but never go above 20% BF.

I believe this is from like mc Donald.

I bulk till I feel like it's getting pretty difficult to get my big jeans on. Time for a cut then.

Glock Lesnar

Don't see the point of ever being above 12-13%,all the size in the world means nothing without a visible four pack at least. I'm 170lbs and most people would think I'm much heavier.

LuckyLloyd

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

Don't see the point of ever being above 12-13%,all the size in the world means nothing without a visible four pack at least. I'm 170lbs and most people would think I'm much heavier.

Some people might want to get strong or achieve something athletically significant and value it over visible abs...

Glock Lesnar

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Some people might want to get strong or achieve something athletically significant and value it over visible abs...

I have an all Ireland boxing medal and bench 1.5x bodyweight, I don't see what benefit being fat gives you when it comes to doing something athletically significant, whatever the fcuk it is you mean by that.

Alf Veedersane

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

I have an all Ireland boxing medal and bench 1.5x bodyweight, I don't see what benefit being fat gives you when it comes to doing something athletically significant, whatever the fcuk it is you mean by that.

Some people might want to bulk and lift more than that.

Different goals etc

Glock Lesnar

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Some people might want to bulk and lift more than that.

Different goals etc

Maybe you're right but I find in gyms you'll get people using their strength goals as an excuse for carrying extra weight, most people join a gym to look good.

Alf Veedersane

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

Maybe you're right but I find in gyms you'll get people using their strength goals as an excuse for carrying extra weight, most people join a gym to look good.

In your opinion.

I joined a gym to get stronger. I put on about 10kg, fit the same jeans and belt but it has made me better at the sports I play.

Yeah, people join to look better but they don't generally get involved in cutting or bulking.

I didn't either, for the record.

Glock Lesnar

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

In your opinion.

I joined a gym to get stronger. I put on about 10kg, fit the same jeans and belt but it has made me better at the sports I play.

Yeah, people join to look better but they don't generally get involved in cutting or bulking.

I didn't either, for the record.

Would you take a 5% bodyfat increase for 20kg increases on your squat, bench and deadlift?

If you go to the gym and 'don't get involved in cutting and bulking' then what are you doing? Recomposition is a delusion altogether unless you're sub 10% bodyfat

Alf Veedersane

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

Would you take a 5% bodyfat increase for 20kg increases on your squat, bench and deadlift?

If you go to the gym and 'don't get involved in cutting and bulking' then what are you doing? Recomposition is a delusion altogether unless you're sub 10% bodyfat

If it mattered enough to me to add 20% to add 5% then I would.

As for my goals, I want to get better at doing what I do. Improve my form and improve my relative strength.

TimeToShine

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

Would you take a 5% bodyfat increase for 20kg increases on your squat, bench and deadlift?

If you go to the gym and 'don't get involved in cutting and bulking' then what are you doing? Recomposition is a delusion altogether unless you're sub 10% bodyfat

There is a world of difference between the weight a 55kg 5'5 boxer pushes around and what a powerlifter can do. Different people have different aims - goal oriented programming for both your diet and in the gym. Obviously your priority as a boxer is keeping lean to stay in the same weight class but this doesn't mean the same logic applies to other sports and aims.

Glock Lesnar

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If it mattered enough to me to add 20% to add 5% then I would.

As for my goals, I want to get better at doing what I do. Improve my form and improve my relative strength.

Surely if relative strength is your goal then you can see the benefit of low bodyfat

TimeToShine wrote: »

There is a world of difference between the weight a 55kg 5'5 boxer pushes around and what a powerlifter can do. Different people have different aims - goal oriented programming for both your diet and in the gym. Obviously your priority as a boxer is keeping lean to stay in the same weight class but this doesn't mean the same logic applies to other sports and aims.

Yeah but I actually box, how many of these people at the gym squatting 150kg with a spare tire around their waist actually powerlift?

conzy

People have different genetics and their calorie ceiling will shift based on their current leanness

e.g

At 9% bodyfat the most calories "athlete A" can consume without gaining weight may be 2300 calories , at 14% bodyfat this figure could increase to 3100 calories. He can now train harder, perform better and have more carbohydrates for recovery, he has sacrificed leanness / aesthetics and weighs ~5kg more. But his performance will be undoubtedly better

Alf Veedersane

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

Surely if relative strength is your goal then you can see the benefit of low bodyfat

Yes and no.

I keep my food pretty consistent. Cutting or bulking is a road to perdition for me.

My weight has plateaued and I eat good food. I don't put on weight to life more and I don't lose it to have better lifts, relatively or otherwise.

My bodyfat wouldn't be more than 12% or thereabouts.

So at the weight I am, I try to lift more but lift better. Better being the priority.

Glock Lesnar

conzy wrote: »

People have different genetics and their calorie ceiling will shift based on their current leanness

e.g

At 9% bodyfat the most calories "athlete A" can consume without gaining weight may be 2300 calories , at 14% bodyfat this figure could increase to 3100 calories. He can now train harder, perform better and have more carbohydrates for recovery, he has sacrificed leanness / aesthetics and weighs ~5kg more. But his performance will be undoubtedly better

And judging by your youtube athlete B can deadlift 160kg and not even look like he lifts.

I think I'll keep my fitness posting to the bodybuilding.com forums, this place will drive me to drink.

Alf Veedersane

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

And judging by your youtube athlete B can deadlift 160kg and not even look like he lifts.

I think I'll keep my fitness posting to the bodybuilding.com forums, this place will drive me to drink.

If you wanna box, then say you wanna box and we'll box.

If you wanna play football, then say you wanna play football and we'll play football.

LuckyLloyd

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

I have an all Ireland boxing medal and bench 1.5x bodyweight, I don't see what benefit being fat gives you when it comes to doing something athletically significant, whatever the fcuk it is you mean by that.

One of us seems to hold a myopic view on this topic. You are correct that there are people out there fooling themselves, and using 'strength' as an excuse for why they're fat and out of shape.

But there are people out there who really care about being strong and powerful and are moving significant amounts of weight around and value that more than abs.

As I noted at the top of this thread, on discussions like this people argue for what they are rather than any real assessment of what they think should be.

TimeToShine

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

Yeah but I actually box, how many of these people at the gym squatting 150kg with a spare tire around their waist actually powerlift?

Why are you comparing yourselves to those lads? Their equivalent are the scrawny guys going around who do 40 pressups a day and 20 minutes on a punching bag and reckon they're boxers because they're skinny. If you are as proficient as you claim to be then your contemporaries are the guys referred to above; people who actually want to be big and strong and don't care about fat - in other words, those who take what they do seriously. For you it's boxing, for them it's powerlifting/rugby/NFL etc.

conzy

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

And judging by your youtube athlete B can deadlift 160kg and not even look like he lifts.

I think I'll keep my fitness posting to the bodybuilding.com forums, this place will drive me to drink.

Thanks for checking out the channel, Do you stay below 12% so you can fit into your small brock lesnar / tapout hoodies?

stockrookie

Trained for 12 years naturally untill i was 25

then took the plunge and started testosterone plus either Anavar or EPI ( depends on the goals)

Now i never have to worry about fat gain while bulking as i can lower bf whilst gaining muscle

I recommend paying your dues first any the best way to lean bulk naturally is to have no more than a 10% caloric surplus while bulking and try add in some fasted low intesnity cardio on the off days to mimize the fat gain

don't aim for a pound a week, try 1-2 per month

it will be more quality mass

less fat

you will feel and look better

if you add more than that your on a bad track as the more fat cells you have = more estrogen

pay your dues first before jumping on the vitamin T an S ,stick to natural training for as long as you can because once you reach your limit and then take the plunge to the dark side you will need very low doses and compounds to achieve amazing results


all the best

Stench Blossoms

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

And judging by your youtube athlete B can deadlift 160kg and not even look like he lifts.

I think I'll keep my fitness posting to the bodybuilding.com forums, this place will drive me to drink.

Time of the month is it?

stockrookie

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Time of the month is it?

bodybuilding.com????? LOL ,kiddies website , so much bro science it is unreal

Elite fitness or T nation is where all the info for proper lifters/athletes is at

Bodybuilding.com is for non lifters who skip legs

JJayoo

People always makes things so complicated. All you have to do is install better lighting in your house and stand directly under it at all times.

Stench Blossoms

JJayoo wrote: »

People always makes things so complicated. All you have to do is install better lighting in your house and stand directly under it at all times.

And use instagram.

JJayoo

I don't understand technology.

Alf Veedersane

JJayoo wrote: »

I don't understand technology.

syklops

JJayoo wrote: »

I don't understand technology.

I still don't know what a tracker mortgage is.

Alf Veedersane

Thought about a one-day bulk involving some pizza or kebab and chips from one of the fine kebab establishments nearby...but I ended up having a chicken fillet-turkey steak medley.

And it was tasty as bejaysus.

Je ne regrette rien.

top madra

stockrookie wrote: »

Trained for 12 years naturally untill i was 25

then took the plunge and started testosterone plus either Anavar or EPI ( depends on the goals)

Now i never have to worry about fat gain while bulking as i can lower bf whilst gaining muscle

I recommend paying your dues first any the best way to lean bulk naturally is to have no more than a 10% caloric surplus while bulking and try add in some fasted low intesnity cardio on the off days to mimize the fat gain

don't aim for a pound a week, try 1-2 per month

it will be more quality mass

less fat

you will feel and look better

if you add more than that your on a bad track as the more fat cells you have = more estrogen

pay your dues first before jumping on the vitamin T an S ,stick to natural training for as long as you can because once you reach your limit and then take the plunge to the dark side you will need very low doses and compounds to achieve amazing results

all the best

Das it mane!

UCDVet

stockrookie wrote: »

bodybuilding.com????? LOL ,kiddies website , so much bro science it is unreal

Elite fitness or T nation is where all the info for proper lifters/athletes is at

Bodybuilding.com is for non lifters who skip legs

I used to spend a lot of time on bb.com. They were all about Starting Strength and 5x5. It was practically a cult, imho.

That's not to say they aren't good programs. But man, if you said anything other than, 'I RECOMMEND YOU DO STARTING STRENGTH' to a n0ob, you'd get negged.

Of course, that was some years back, maybe it is different now.

top madra

UCDVet wrote: »

I used to spend a lot of time on bb.com. They were all about Starting Strength and 5x5. It was practically a cult, imho.

That's not to say they aren't good programs. But man, if you said anything other than, 'I RECOMMEND YOU DO STARTING STRENGTH' to a n0ob, you'd get negged.

Of course, that was some years back, maybe it is different now.

Ya it's completely difference around here.