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John Bruton
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10-08-2014 12:47pm#1
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Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 21860
Karl Stein wrote: »Before more FG fanboys arrive it needs to be pointed out that FG were offering a turbo-charged version of what FF were doing during the Celtic pyramid. Things may well have been much worse had they got their way and most certainly would have been no better in the aftermath if that twat Bruton is anything to go by.
Guess we are screwed so.
Fianna Fail got us into the mess (again). Fine Gael apparently would have made it worse (but they are doing a good job with the recovery, again). Sinn Fein would have us living the dark ages under candlelight. Labour haven't done exactly a sterling job in government so far.wretcheddomain wrote: »Joan/John Burton/Bruton...:rolleyes:
One is male, one is female.
One was Taoiseach.
One wasn't.
One was in Fine Gael.
One was in Labour.
Bit of a difference
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Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 21860
Karl Stein wrote: »FG are following orders. You could paint faces on turnips and replace most of FG with them and they'd do a similar job and have similar personalities.
Well Sinn Fein argue differently. They claim, if in government, things would be radically different and the country would be much better off. People swing this while EU/IMF agreement around to suit their own needs. Some argue that the agreement is a foundation as to which the parties need to decide how they go about the recovery, as long as targets are met. Some argue that the agreement explicitly states what needs to be done and there is no scope. Some like to remind us that Fianna Fail negotiated this and are now sitting back in opposition shouting it down.They were the one party who had no part in the crash and its aftermath yet everything would be exponentially worse had they been driving the car or arriving in the ambulance?
Your bias is very plain to see.
Nobody in opposition during the 'boom' had anything to do with the crash. This isn't the only 'boom & bust' the country have been through, with Fianna Fail creating the crash and a FG & Lab government rebuilding the economy for Fianna Fail to take back over again.I've not been a fan of SF in the past, especially because of all their baggage of troubles-era politicians, where I can't avoid having doubts about many reputations in the party - but they're looking like the only alternative left, and may be the only party that may be open to real economic alternatives at this point.
It's still hard to judge though - there's a lot of FUD surrounding SF, and I'm not sure how to view them.
Well some in this thread are telling us that the policies that are being implemented at the moment are making a difference. A lot of the figures confirm this, but the vast majority agree we have a long way to go yet.
If we had Sinn Fein, they claim policy would be vastly different. We would have told the EU/IMF to go swing it, defaulted on our debt, stuck the fingers up to the banks and bankers, bailed out the people through the pension fund, all without increasing taxes or cutting (apart from cutting the big pay cheques floating around the public / civil service, because the public hate that). Garth Brooks would have played and the planning decision made by Dublin City Council would have been overruled, because Sinn Fein like to pick and choose when and where to interfere in planning (vote buying, basically).
How, I hear you asking, can this be done? Well, that's the big question. But the fanboys will have you know that they have a very comprehensive policy document and the raiding of the pension fund with a wealth tax would be a big plus one for the saviour of our economy. They may link you to the policy document but they won't link you to the numerous reports that rubbish their policy document, or the interviews with Gerry Adams where questions are put to him and he dodges the bullets because he can't actually say honestly how it would work. Nor will they tell you about the much much higher property & water charges in the North of Ireland, where the party is in government. Nor will they link you to the various austerity measures they implemented in this very small economy. They might tell you, in rebuttal, that it's all the UKs fault that they force them into these decisions and Sinn Fein have no choice. But sure, down South it's a similar situation - we are told what to do by the EU/IMF but Sinn Fein are demanding the government tell them where to go? They probably wont tell you about the time they linked, in a publicity campaign about Europe, to an economists report that they claimed favoured what they have been saying all along but for it to turnout the economist wasn't actually agreeing with Sinn Fein at all. Big egg on face moment there! On the subject of Europe, it's an odd one that a party that has voted against every single treaty would then run for the European Parliament knowing it's not going to have any real impact on how things are done by Europe that may impact Ireland! But it's not like Sinn Fein have any previous for expenses scandals - North or South. Says a lot about what they would really do in government, and what they would say in opposition.
Now lets not get ahead of ourselves here. The media are against Sinn Fein as are the people online. There all just trolls for the government parties. The main thing is not to believe these trolls and to vote Sinn Fein because they are ready, willing and able to lead Ireland, hand in hand, to a fairer and more honest recovery. For the people, not the politicians or the bankers. But take a look at what Sinn Fein are REALLY saying, when some of their senior members have publicly came out and said there not ready for government.Ya but we still haven't properly audited the bank balance sheets, and there's a lot of bad debt still left to unravel, and a new property bubble, and still (possibly unsustainably) huge public debt - plus a likely financial crisis on the way again.
I don't understand why people see us as recovering, given all of that - growth figures don't necessarily indicate we are recovering, they can be just as illusory as the growth figures were during the boom.
At the end of the day, we are in recovery mode regardless of who gets credit. But the fact remains, we have little choice but to rotate between FF, FG & Labour. Maybe a bit of the Greens and Independent for a bit of balance. The rest are way off the ball when it comes to policy and running countries. The country is crying out for an alternative but not a radical alternative yet nobody is willing, not even the rebels in opposition as Independents and ex-party members, to stand up and be accounted for on a large scale.
That alone, says a lot about Irish politics.0 -
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Well Sinn Fein argue differently. They claim, if in government, things would be radically different and the country would be much better off. People swing this while EU/IMF agreement around to suit their own needs. Some argue that the agreement is a foundation as to which the parties need to decide how they go about the recovery, as long as targets are met. Some argue that the agreement explicitly states what needs to be done and there is no scope. Some like to remind us that Fianna Fail negotiated this and are now sitting back in opposition shouting it down.
Nobody in opposition during the 'boom' had anything to do with the crash. This isn't the only 'boom & bust' the country have been through, with Fianna Fail creating the crash and a FG & Lab government rebuilding the economy for Fianna Fail to take back over again.
Well some in this thread are telling us that the policies that are being implemented at the moment are making a difference. A lot of the figures confirm this, but the vast majority agree we have a long way to go yet.
If we had Sinn Fein, they claim policy would be vastly different. We would have told the EU/IMF to go swing it, defaulted on our debt, stuck the fingers up to the banks and bankers, bailed out the people through the pension fund, all without increasing taxes or cutting (apart from cutting the big pay cheques floating around the public / civil service, because the public hate that). Garth Brooks would have played and the planning decision made by Dublin City Council would have been overruled, because Sinn Fein like to pick and choose when and where to interfere in planning (vote buying, basically).
How, I hear you asking, can this be done? Well, that's the big question. But the fanboys will have you know that they have a very comprehensive policy document and the raiding of the pension fund with a wealth tax would be a big plus one for the saviour of our economy. They may link you to the policy document but they won't link you to the numerous reports that rubbish their policy document, or the interviews with Gerry Adams where questions are put to him and he dodges the bullets because he can't actually say honestly how it would work. Nor will they tell you about the much much higher property & water charges in the North of Ireland, where the party is in government. Nor will they link you to the various austerity measures they implemented in this very small economy. They might tell you, in rebuttal, that it's all the UKs fault that they force them into these decisions and Sinn Fein have no choice. But sure, down South it's a similar situation - we are told what to do by the EU/IMF but Sinn Fein are demanding the government tell them where to go? They probably wont tell you about the time they linked, in a publicity campaign about Europe, to an economists report that they claimed favoured what they have been saying all along but for it to turnout the economist wasn't actually agreeing with Sinn Fein at all. Big egg on face moment there! On the subject of Europe, it's an odd one that a party that has voted against every single treaty would then run for the European Parliament knowing it's not going to have any real impact on how things are done by Europe that may impact Ireland! But it's not like Sinn Fein have any previous for expenses scandals - North or South. Says a lot about what they would really do in government, and what they would say in opposition.
Now lets not get ahead of ourselves here. The media are against Sinn Fein as are the people online. There all just trolls for the government parties. The main thing is not to believe these trolls and to vote Sinn Fein because they are ready, willing and able to lead Ireland, hand in hand, to a fairer and more honest recovery. For the people, not the politicians or the bankers. But take a look at what Sinn Fein are REALLY saying, when some of their senior members have publicly came out and said there not ready for government.
At the end of the day, we are in recovery mode regardless of who gets credit. But the fact remains, we have little choice but to rotate between FF, FG & Labour. Maybe a bit of the Greens and Independent for a bit of balance. The rest are way off the ball when it comes to policy and running countries. The country is crying out for an alternative but not a radical alternative yet nobody is willing, not even the rebels in opposition as Independents and ex-party members, to stand up and be accounted for on a large scale.
That alone, says a lot about Irish politics.
Balderdash shoo away Shinners will take back the multiple pensions of the Elite, jobs for the boys Quangos and make PS work for their money and pensions.0 -
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