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Government to reverse some Public Secor Pay cuts

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12357…48

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    #122
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Talk of pay increases is absurd, no wonder the country went bankrupt. Sure we can blame the Germans, eh? :rolleyes:

    They ought to be looking at taking 15-20% off the existing wage bill.

    So lets get this straight..


    You are making a direct connection with the PS pay bill and the country going bankrupt.

    Jesus christ I've seen it all now.


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    #123
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I've never seen that model before for starters.

    Resorting to petty comments about autocorrect typos now... says a lot about you.


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    #124
    Halloween Jack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭Halloween Jack


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I've never seen that model before for starters.

    Not all in the public sector should be cut, but areas like admin & quangos should be axed, thereby bringing down the wage bill.

    Which quangos? What administrative units? What would the economic effects of firing 15-20% of public sector workers? What effects on services would your suggested cuts have? How much would firing that many workers cost in redundancy and social welfare costs? How would we create jobs for another 60,000 people when we already have 450,000 unemployed?

    Have you put any thought in to this or, at the risk of getting repetitive, are you spouting I'll informed ideologically slanted bollox as usual?


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    #125
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    not yet wrote: »
    So lets get this straight..


    You are making a direct connection with the PS pay bill and the country going bankrupt.

    Jesus christ I've seen it all now.

    Indeed.

    Contrary to what our politicans tell us, it wasn't the bankers, nor the builders. It was Ahern's madness, but then again I suppose he deserved to be what was it, the 3rd highest paid politician in the world?.


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    #126
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,031 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Indeed.

    Contrary to what our politicans tell us, it wasn't the bankers, nor the builders. It was Ahern's madness, but then again I suppose he deserved to be what was it, the 3rd highest paid politician in the world?.
    I am interested in your theories and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #127
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Indeed.

    Contrary to what our politicans tell us, it wasn't the bankers, nor the builders. It was Ahern's madness, but then again I suppose he deserved to be what was it, the 3rd highest paid politician in the world?.

    Good man, spot on, you know your stuff of that there is no doubt.


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    #128
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Esel wrote: »
    I am interested in your theories and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    Me too, me too..!!


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    #129
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Esel wrote: »
    I am interested in your theories and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
    not yet wrote: »
    Me too, me too..!!

    I wouldn't recommend a newsletter. Read from multiple sources.

    Hope this helps.


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    #130
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    creedp wrote: »
    Having listened to that tool Marc Coleman, whose is now calling himself an independent consultant, on TV3 last night (bad idea at 11pm!) I'm even more convinced of the validity of the above summary. In between an emotional story about how he was going to plead for a banking writedown for Ireland in Berlin and Frankfurt - presumably he will don the tricolour t-shirt over the IBEC one on that day! - he delivered an even more emotional plea that prior to awarding pay increases to the PS (maybe OK for the low paid PS - didn't define) the Govt should consider the fact that the private sector (didn't define) hasn't had a pay increase since 2006!! Companies must be using their money to but nice new shiny commercial vehicles if the latest new vehicles registration figures are anyting to go by.

    I always find it amusing when these guys go to critisize PS pay they start comparing the likes of the semi-states and the private sector. Last night it was the turn of using IW's bonus culture as an example of out of control pay in the PS. One of these days these experts may get a handle of the fact that the likes of Bord Gais and IW are not paid in the same manner as PS but of course convenienty their higher pay is incorporated into the PS average figure to be compared to the palty private sector equivalent.

    Bizaarre stuff for a supposedly independent and objective consultant economist.

    Absolutely right i have been saying this for a few years now. Its just not something that is ever considered. The Semi States are a different animal altogether. They have had no pay cuts, no pension levy, and in some cases have had actual pay rises. Did the semi states have their hours increases i don't know? The Public Service that i belong to has had all these cuts. None of these commentators in the media and elsewhere seem to notice this or chooses to not notice this.


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    #131
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Sorry what the hell are increments you got pay rises even in the height of the bust and have so every years since the bust.....There are more deserving people to get some relief before the public sector ever get a larger slice of the pie.


    You haven't learned a single thing in the years you've been on here. You've obviously been mouthing plenty but listening none. Not all staff are on increments. Most people in the public service today are at the top of the incremental scale.


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    #132
    Vizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,527 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    woodoo wrote: »
    You haven't learned a single thing in the years you've been on here. You've obviously been mouthing plenty but listening none. Not all staff are on increments. Most people in the public service today are at the top of the incremental scale.

    I am one of those Woodoo.
    Got my last Long Service Increment in August 2008(ironically) so now I have had no opportuntity to progress to the next grade for six years and probably won't for at least another 2 years.
    I'd love to get my hands on some of the 250million that everyone talks about.


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    #133
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    fliball123 wrote: »
    What is one eyed at being asked to pay about 1/4 of a billion a year since 2008 in annual increments and to public sector workers who have no valid performance mechanism

    Tut tut tut. Not even the government use this figure anymore.


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    #134
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    woodoo wrote: »
    You haven't learned a single thing in the years you've been on here. You've obviously been mouthing plenty but listening none. Not all staff are on increments. Most people in the public service today are at the top of the incremental scale.
    Another reason why blanket pay rises are an insane proposition.
    A lot of the PS workers are overpaid because the increments didn't result from performance improvements. If they want to earn more, they need to do what private workers do - get a promotion.


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    #135
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Icepick wrote: »
    Another reason why blanket pay rises are an insane proposition.
    A lot of the PS workers are overpaid because the increments didn't result from performance improvements. If they want to earn more, they need to do what private workers do - get a promotion.
    Increments are pretty widespread feature in public sectors. They are not peculiar to Ireland.


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    #136
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    not yet wrote: »
    So lets get this straight..


    You are making a direct connection with the PS pay bill and the country going bankrupt.

    Jesus christ I've seen it all now.

    The PS pay bill forms a major part of all public spending so there is a direct relationship between it and the deficit.

    Obviously its not the full story but certainly part of it.


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    #137
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    If this happens it will be highly selective its a hard one for the Government to get right perception is every thing, some of the low paid public servants do deserve a pay rise and some such as the consultants, they have to pay or they wont have enough of them.

    I cant believe you get the same old posters with the same old fury about public servants still posting.


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    #138
    The Dagda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭The Dagda


    They should just knock 1% off the USC, and knock 1% off it each year until it is gone.

    That way both public and private get a benefit and we'll eventually be rid of this "temporary measure".

    Does anyone know exactly how much the USC generates each year?


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    #139
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    Jeez I know there was pay freezes, changes to entry scales & pay rises due to qualifications, but was there really many actual pay cuts? Wasn't it more reduction of sick leave, croke park hours, taxation of maternity benefit, not allowing teachers to take holidays in lieu while on maternity leave, pension levy, USC etc. I think they're saving more money outside of paycuts.


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    #140
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    , but was there really many actual pay cuts?

    :rolleyes:


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    #141
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Phoebas wrote: »
    The PS pay bill forms a major part of all public spending so there is a direct relationship between it and the deficit.

    Obviously its not the full story but certainly part of it.

    The PS pay bill is approx 17 billion, take back 30% in taxes etc and that leaves 11.90 billion. Now I don't think that figure is excessive to run a country, and had little or nothing to do with the crash.

    The crash was caused by greedy bankers-investors-developers and politicans, it was not caused by a PS worker earning 35k a year.


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    #142
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    Jeez I know there was pay freezes, changes to entry scales & pay rises due to qualifications, but was there really many actual pay cuts? Wasn't it more reduction of sick leave, croke park hours, taxation of maternity benefit, not allowing teachers to take holidays in lieu while on maternity leave, pension levy, USC etc. I think they're saving more money outside of paycuts.

    Spot on, there were no paycuts,

    Jesus chirst, I now know the extent of the crap that people believe out there.


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    #143
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    Riskymove wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    I'm a public sector worker and am pay cut free.... :rolleyes:


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    #144
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    mariaalice wrote: »
    If this happens it will be highly selective its a hard one for the Government to get right perception is every thing, some of the low paid public servants do deserve a pay rise and some such as the consultants, they have to pay or they wont have enough of them.


    another thing is that if they simply reverse the Haddington Road Agreement, the people getting pay cuts back will be those earning over €65,000 who are the only ones who got a pay cut in that agreement!!

    Try and sell that


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    #145
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    I'm a public sector worker and am pay cut free.... :rolleyes:

    Really? Do elaborate...


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    #146
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Really? Do elaborate...

    What's to elaborate?

    Never.Got.A.Paycut.


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    #147
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    I'm a public sector worker and am pay cut free.... :rolleyes:

    well done but so what?

    that doesn't mean there were not paycuts does it?

    I am surprised that you could work in the PS and not be aware the cuts (perhaps you work in a semi-state?)


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    #148
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    Never.Got.A.Paycut.

    so therefore no one else did either?


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    #149
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    What's to elaborate?

    Never.Got.A.Paycut.

    What part of the PS, what grade etc...

    Do you not pay the PRD? That's a paycut.


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    #150
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    Riskymove wrote: »
    well done but so what?

    that doesn't mean there were not paycuts does it?

    I am surprised that you could work in the PS and not be aware the cuts (perhaps you work in a semi-state?)

    Riskymove wrote: »
    so therefore no one else did either?
    I didn't say none. I said not many. Why people bother wasting time twisting peoples words....maybe argue with the wall? Might be more fun??
    barneystinson wrote: »
    What part of the PS, what grade etc...

    Do you not pay the PRD? That's a paycut.

    Fair enough, I pay the PRD, and along with all the other taxes etc I'm not earning much more than I did 4 years ago. I work in the Education sector, the largest payroll in the country, and afaik there were little actual 'paycuts' but sanctions in other areas, as I mentioned in my first post here.

    My thinking, if they reverse these paycuts it won't have much bearing in the Education sector as there were so many other cuts carried out


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    #151
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    I didn't say none. I said not many. Why people bother wasting time twisting peoples words....maybe argue with the wall? Might be more fun??

    well, imo, the clear implication from your post was that rather than "actual" paycuts there were only other measures

    Perhaps if you have said this clear statement in the first place
    I work in the Education sector, the largest payroll in the country, and afaik there were little actual 'paycuts' but sanctions in other areas, as I mentioned in my first post here.

    My thinking, if they reverse these paycuts it won't have much bearing in the Education sector as there were so many other cuts carried out

    you could have avoided the issue


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