What's so great about the Irish education system?

Saster123

The Irish education system has been a source of stress for me for years. My biology teacher cannot spell at all which I wouldn't mind so much but she comes a corrects my notes with a red pen to the wrong spelling. I used to go to school in England and since I have moved to Ireland I can almost hear the cries of my brain cells. I was in maths class and a girl called Anna says 'How do you spell my name?' There is no drive to learn the teachers are shoddy at best and most very racist. I was once punched i the face in class by a student (who thought her boyfriend was cheating on her with me for no apparent reason) and the teacher did nothing and wouldn't let me go to the bathroom which i really needed to do because i didn't want to cry in front of the person who'd hurt me. I did transition year and for the whole year was stressed because our year head used to sob and scream during registration class. My religion teacher red us 'Face Up' magazines and on the first day said that if you weren't christian you weren't a good person. My first math's teacher's accent was indecipherable and everyone dropped grades in his class until he went back to teaching P.E. There are so many spelling mistakes in our books it is not even funny anymore. We had a student exchange and the french girl who came spent a year correcting our french teacher.
Half my class can't read and the other half are pricks who disrupt class. So Irish Secondary Level schooling is terrible but perhaps third level is better.

Dave0301

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I'm not sure about bringing in their books but they have 40-50% of the exam done before they go in and this coursework is spoon fed by the teachers.

Exams aren't dumbed down but students can repeat an exam up to twice in the one year.

Just a note on this; The A - Level modular nature is changing over the next few years, and the way exams are sat will be more in line with the Leaving Cert.

Santa Cruz

There will always be people who have gripes about the education standards or lack of them but look at the positions that Irish graduates are getting at home and abroad. Legal and Financial graduates obtaining well paid jobs in the City of London with onward employment in Dubai, Hong Kong etc. Medical graduates are employable worldwide. Construction graduates such as the various engineers, architects are in demand where ever construction in ongoing.

It can cost a bit to put a person through college but it can be done with hard work. People take up Summer jobs, part time jobs during term etc, take in foreign students and so on. The world doesn't owe anyone a living but if you are prepared to get off your arse and work Ireland does offer the education system that will help you achieve your goals. The one failing we have is our poor language skills. As an English speaking country the UK, USA Australia are natural destinations. I have no doubt that if we had the language skills in Spanish, German, France we would be able to develop a great service industry supplying our other skills to the continent.
I wouldn't pay any attention to the whingers on here

fr336

Cherrycola wrote: »

But it is allowed? Interesting.

I suppose you could look at it as students still need to be able to understand the coursework, regardless of whether the book is in front of them or not, so where is the harm using the book as a reference.
In real life we are not expected to learn everything off by heart and regurgitate it in a 2hr exam. Does learning off quotes or dates really show an understanding of the work or just a good memory?

That's the core of a huge, non stop debate! Sadly the general population nod along and love to brag about how amazing they are due to their ability to regurgitate. If you think about it, regurgitation in its most basic sense being linked to general intelligence is actually quite scary...it's people just parroting what they're taught and not really thinking about it. Perfect for governments then.

foxy farmer

Whatever about what's s good about it , its a vast improvement on what was classed as an education system this country. Primary and secondary schools have improved drastically in the last 40 years. No more sadistic nutjobs as teachers no more favouritism shown to kids of wealthy parents. No reading of post of kids in boarding schools. Slower kids aren't singled out for ridicule. I have an aunt in her eighties who was beaten for writing with her left hand. Continued to be beaten till she could use the right hand. At least we've left that superstitious rubbish behind.

Inspector Coptoor

Here's the thing though, if you just regurgitate quotes without backing it up with your own interpretation, you're not going to get anywhere near full marks.

As a Leaving Cert teacher, it galls me when people say "it's ALL rote" learning.
It's certainly part of it, but it's not ALL of it, particularly for the subjects I teach. (Science)

Saster123

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Here's the thing though, if you just regurgitate quotes without backing it up with your own interpretation, you're not going to get anywhere near full marks.

As a Leaving Cert teacher, it galls me when people say "it's ALL rote" learning.
It's certainly part of it, but it's not ALL of it, particularly for the subjects I teach. (Science)

It really is though, for instance in English as long as you remember the key sentences the teacher used than you'll get an A. I'm a straight A student pretty much and I know that if you deviate in any subject and actually think about the subject matter you instantly fail. For example LCVP is a none subject that exists only for points

In class watch a video about charity work
Teacher: whats a skill involved in charity work
Me: social skills; because you are dealing with people
Teacher: no.
Other kid: brick laying because they build houses in africa
Teacher: exactly
Me: incredulous and exasperated

^that actually happened

Inspector Coptoor

Saster123 wrote: »

It really is though, for instance in English as long as you remember the key sentences the teacher used than you'll get an A. I'm a straight A student pretty much and I know that if you deviate in any subject and actually think about the subject matter you instantly fail. For example LCVP is a none subject that exists only for points

In class watch a video about charity work
Teacher: whats a skill involved in charity work
Me: social skills; because you are dealing with people
Teacher: no.
Other kid: brick laying because they build houses in africa
Teacher: exactly
Me: incredulous and exasperated

^that actually happened

I agree that there are nuances to marking schemes but again, of asked a question that asks for YOUR opinion and you list off a load of quotes, you won't get an A.

To say a student would "fail" for devoting from rote learning and interpreting it themselves is dramatic at best and ridiculous at worst.

LCVP is a different kettle of fish.
It was designed for students who don't fare well in high stakes exams and is essentially a mixture of a few subjects and it only has three grades - distinction, merit and pass.

Louthdrog

I've experienced Irish system as a student and uk system as a teacher. Both systems have major flaws.

I spent most of primary school learning Irish and religion. We did maths and English too obviously but not once did we look at science. It was a rare treat to do history or geography. So many wasted hours learning bible stories as fact. I only left primary school in 2004 so not too long ago.

Secondary school, again so much time wasted on learning bible stories as fact and on a dead language. I'm all for learning Irish, but as an optional subject. I most likely would have picked it but it should not be forced on people. Teachers also have very little idea of their students abilities, and thus how to improve them. I found once you were well behaved you were assumed to be doing well. Lessons were also very boring and never stretched the more able, nor helped the weakest.

However the opportunities and fairness in college places here are excellent. It's quite cheap to get a degree and is available to anyone who is willing to work for it.

Saster123

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I agree that there are nuances to marking schemes but again, of asked a question that asks for YOUR opinion and you list off a load of quotes, you won't get an A.

To say a student would "fail" for devoting from rote learning and interpreting it themselves is dramatic at best and ridiculous at worst.

LCVP is a different kettle of fish.
It was designed for students who don't fare well in high stakes exams and is essentially a mixture of a few subjects and it only has three grades - distinction, merit and pass.

I wish I was exaggerating but i've tested my theories and found that having an opinion is detrimental to you're grades. You may think Sylvia Plath has dark but poignant poetry that strikes a cord with you but unless you say that you think she was mentally unstable and depressed than you are getting a D and a trip to the counsellor who is ridiculously going to interrogate you to see if your suicidal because you enjoy Plath's poetry. Also a true story

Sarratt501

When you meet 17/18 year old Spanish(or French/German/Swiss) kids with proficiency in 4 languages by the time they graduate high school it certainly makes me question our education system!!

Saster123

Sarratt501 wrote: »

When you meet 17/18 year old Spanish(or French/German/Swiss) kids with proficiency in 4 languages by the time they graduate high school it certainly makes me question our education system!!

Totally we had 6 foreign kids come into our class and they beat everyone by loads! I was used to being top of the class so i was so jealous! They weren't even trying.

Duck's hoop

Saster123 wrote: »

I wish I was exaggerating but i've tested my theories and found that having an opinion is detrimental to you're grades. You may think Sylvia Plath has dark but poignant poetry that strikes a cord with you but unless you say that you think she was mentally unstable and depressed than you are getting a D and a trip to the counsellor who is ridiculously going to interrogate you to see if your suicidal because you enjoy Plath's poetry. Also a true story

Totally like OMFG.

riffmongous

Sarratt501 wrote: »

When you meet 17/18 year old Spanish(or French/German/Swiss) kids with proficiency in 4 languages by the time they graduate high school it certainly makes me question our education system!!

There's a lot of cultural influence there though, rather than just purely school education. Most (but certainly not all) young people from europe will be exposed to a lot of english language media and you can easily become proficient in many languages by studying ones from the same family, German comes easily to the Dutch, Italian to the Spanish and of course you have all the slavic languages.

pauliebdub

Our system is much better than the UK system in my opinion, the range of subjects is much broader, the UK only take three subjects at A level. I also think the standards in schools ls are a bit better.

The downside is that the whole system for both countries is that it gears students purely for 3rd level entry so kids end up enrolling in useless college degrees unlike the German system which prepares students for apprenticeship or university depending on their ability.

AdamD

thelad95 wrote: »

The Irish Education system is a rote-learning race to the top.

One thing that future LCers should bear in mind is that no matter what Mammy and Daddy say, a Level 8 degree that was 250 points in Letterkenny IT is worth the same as a Level 8 degree from Trinity especially to an American employer who

1. has never heard of either college
AND
2. is probably more interested in your previous work experiences and skills than your degree that you crammed for on cold January tuesday nights.

Not to any employer capable of using google

Dave0301

Saster123 wrote: »

I wish I was exaggerating but i've tested my theories and found that having an opinion is detrimental to you're grades. You may think Sylvia Plath has dark but poignant poetry that strikes a cord with you but unless you say that you think she was mentally unstable and depressed than you are getting a D and a trip to the counsellor who is ridiculously going to interrogate you to see if your suicidal because you enjoy Plath's poetry. Also a true story

English is about being able to interpret literary works and back up your opinion with examples from your work. If you use the opinion and examples that your teacher has given you, you will have a firm starting base to work with.

If you have a different interpretation of the subject materiel you need to be able to back this up in a coherent and evidenced based manner. That is what the marks are awarded for. Having a different opinion is not penalised, expressing it poorly is.

Jogathon

I am a primary school teacher who has taught in London, and here. I find that the major asset that we have here is the fact that only the most intelligent people can become primary teachers. I know that a lot of people will disagree with this here but the fact that teaching requires over 500 points means that we get the cream of the crop into our profession.

The reason that I have stated that as being so important is because I came across many examples in England of teachers who lacked very basic knowledge. Teachers made simple maths errors, grammar mistakes, and just lacked general problem solving/initiative throughout the school day.

Yes, we are underfunded. Yes, our class sizes are too big. I'll have 35 in my class this year! But every member of staff in my school works hard, tries their best and is genuinely interested in seeing every student progress to the best of their ability.

Mardy Bum

thelad95 wrote: »

The Irish Education system is a rote-learning race to the top.

One thing that future LCers should bear in mind is that no matter what Mammy and Daddy say, a Level 8 degree that was 250 points in Letterkenny IT is worth the same as a Level 8 degree from Trinity especially to an American employer who

No it's not. It is not even mildly close.

MultiUmm

The education system in Ireland certainly has its merits, but for me a few glaring issues always outshine them. The Catholic church is still far, far too intertwined with our primary and secondary systems. If someone wants to go to a Catholic school then by all means they should be able to attend one, but in a developed 21st century state teaching one religious ethos in public schools has absolutely no place in the classroom.

Also I'd have to refute the argument that education in Ireland is "essentially free". Adding up the cost of books, uniforms and our ever rising third level fees is not what I would define as "free".

ComputerKing

MultiUmm wrote: »

The education system in Ireland certainly has its merits, but for me a few glaring issues always outshine them. The Catholic church is still far, far too intertwined with our primary and secondary systems. If someone wants to go to a Catholic school then by all means they should be able to attend one, but in a developed 21st century state teaching one religious ethos in public schools has absolutely no place in the classroom.

Also I'd have to refute the argument that education in Ireland is "essentially free". Adding up the cost of books, uniforms and our ever rising third level fees is not what I would define as "free".

But you have to accept that these schools just wouldn't be here with out the Catholic church who gave the land and money to build and develop them.

Secondly the Irish education system is nearly free. Yes school books and uniforms can be expensive but its no where near the cost of education in other countries. Also third level in Ireland is also very cheap as well compared to other counties such as the US where it is the norm to graduate with massive student loans some in the hundreds of thousands which you have to work for years to pay off.

Fighting Irish

It's **** enough tbh, it can be good for some people but it doesn't suit everybody

Frank Lee Midere

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Here's the thing though, if you just regurgitate quotes without backing it up with your own interpretation, you're not going to get anywhere near full marks.

As a Leaving Cert teacher, it galls me when people say "it's ALL rote" learning.
It's certainly part of it, but it's not ALL of it, particularly for the subjects I teach. (Science)

Of course not. The funny thing is many college courses are effectively rote. Doctors are not really paid to be critical thinkers at undergraduate level

Frank Lee Midere

fr336 wrote: »

That's the core of a huge, non stop debate! Sadly the general population nod along and love to brag about how amazing they are due to their ability to regurgitate. If you think about it, regurgitation in its most basic sense being linked to general intelligence is actually quite scary...it's people just parroting what they're taught and not really thinking about it. Perfect for governments then.

People who accuse others of "just regurgitating" generally have a bone to pick. Learning stuff isn't rote - it's about using knowledge in debate or essays. In history - a subject which demands people know dates and alliances - one of the exam questions I got at 14 was : Was WWI inevitable.

You can argue either way. You can't however argue unless you know the ententes, the previous wars between the powers, the countries of Europe at the time, the leaders and their personalities, the verbal and formal agreements, the cost of mobilisations etc.

Not rote. Applied knowledge.

fr336

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

People who accuse others of "just regurgitating" generally have a bone to pick. Learning stuff isn't rote - it's about using knowledge in debate or essays. In history - a subject which demands people know dates and alliances - one of the exam questions I got at 14 was : Was WWI inevitable.

You can argue either way. You can't however argue unless you know the ententes, the previous wars between the powers, the countries of Europe at the time, the leaders and their personalities, the verbal and formal agreements, the cost of mobilisations etc.

Not rote. Applied knowledge.

Hmm fair play, you got me. I am quite uneducated

MultiUmm

ComputerKing wrote: »

But you have to accept that these schools just wouldn't be here with out the Catholic church who gave the land and money to build and develop them.

Secondly the Irish education system is nearly free. Yes school books and uniforms can be expensive but its no where near the cost of education in other countries. Also third level in Ireland is also very cheap as well compared to other counties such as the US where it is the norm to graduate with massive student loans some in the hundreds of thousands which you have to work for years to pay off.

Granted, but how does that justify the fact that the CC still retains a large amount of control over our schools to this day? It's a throwback to the days when bishops and priests wielded a huge amount of power. It's laughable to say we have a "world-class" education system when we're still teaching kids that fables from two and a half thousand years ago are fact.

It's not. According to research conducted by Barnardos the average cost of sending a child in junior infants to school amounts to €350 and for a child entering their first year of secondary school it was €735 in 2014. (Source: http://www.barnardos.ie/assets/files/Advocacy/2014SchoolCosts/School-Costs-Survey-Briefing2014.pdf) Whatever about other countries being more expensive but that is hardly free education. And that just covers the bare minimum such as books and clothing, nevermind school trips, lunches etc.

Well the U.S. system is hardly a model of social progression and equality of access to third level education. In other EU member states there's either no fees or a very small contribution rate and that includes other incentives such as free access to public transport. I paid €1250 in fees and €76.50 per month for my bus ticket, which amounted to €688.50 over nine months, nevermind the price of books and other resources for class. Just because it's not as expensive as the US (and let's hope it never gets to that point) does not mean it's cheap or free.

cloud493

Well when I arrived here when I was 16

- Missed transition year
- Had to pay a fortune for textbooks and exercise books, which I did not have to do in England.

So not great based on that :pac:

Tail Docker

The irish primary/secondary education is crap. My three have been through it and I have mine and my wifes education abroad to compare it to. Crap. Thin history, no real chemistry, feck all PE and rubbish on languages and computing. I have a lot of nieces and nephews also and from what I have seen, they regurgitated narrow facts to meet an exam criteria - that's not an education.

SaoirseRose

It's far from great. It's full of kids being 'taught to listen and obey', rather than being encouraged to self-learn and think for themselves.

srsly78

Saster123 wrote: »

The Irish education system has been a source of stress for me for years. My biology teacher cannot spell at all which I wouldn't mind so much but she comes a corrects my notes with a red pen to the wrong spelling. I used to go to school in England and since I have moved to Ireland I can almost hear the cries of my brain cells. I was in maths class and a girl called Anna says 'How do you spell my name?' There is no drive to learn the teachers are shoddy at best and most very racist. I was once punched i the face in class by a student (who thought her boyfriend was cheating on her with me for no apparent reason) and the teacher did nothing and wouldn't let me go to the bathroom whichireally needed to do because i didn't want to cry in front of the person who'd hurt me. I did transition year and for the whole year was stressed because our year head used to sob and scream during registration class. My religion teacher red us 'Face Up' magazines and on the first day said that if you weren't christian you weren't a good person. My first math's teacher's accent was indecipherable and everyone dropped grades in his class until he went back to teaching P.E. There are so many spelling mistakes in our books it is not even funny anymore. We had a student exchange and the french girl who came spent a year correcting our french teacher.
Half my class can't read and the other half are pricks who disrupt class. So Irish Secondary Level schooling is terrible but perhaps third level is better.

Can do better. Come see me after class to discuss paragraphs, sentence structure, tense and punctuation (especially the usage of the apostrophe).