ISIS are pure evil.

LorMal

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I don't think it's our fault but it's certainly within all our interests to examine it and prevent it happening if possible, in that sense it is a responsibility.

It's a matter for another thread though.

We need to stop blaming ourselves, or the Americans, or the 'west' or whatever.

The blame for this is firmly on those who perpetrate these outrages. Let's be clear. Radical Islam is the most negative and destructive force imaginable.
God help is all if these lunatics infiltrate Saudi Arabia.
Another global economic collapse, Russia to hold all the cards, potential for WW3.

h2005

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Not sure what that has to do with ISIS?


Troops on the ground will end them fairly swiftly. An operation co-ordinated by America with British, French, Turkish and Israeli support is probably the most realistic.

I don't see anything ending swiftly. Very much doubt the American public have the appetite for putting troops on the ground and I doubt Obama will want to send troops back in during his administration.

LorMal

h2005 wrote: »

The US isn't going to put the boots on the ground to do that. They don't seem to learn from their foreign policy but rather rinse and repeat.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Iwasfrozen

h2005 wrote: »

I don't see anything ending swiftly. Very much doubt the American public have the appetite for putting troops on the ground and I doubt Obama will want to send troops back in during his administration.

On the contrary, I think public opinion is turning towards direct military intervention. Obama has started bombing ISIS but that's not enough we need to route them out and destroy them before they kill any more innocents.

Tail Docker

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Not sure what that has to do with ISIS?

That's what they're at that is so shocking.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Troops on the ground will end them fairly swiftly. An operation co-ordinated by America with British, French, Turkish and Israeli support is probably the most realistic.

Well, that ought to end well.

Highflyer13

woodoo wrote: »

Lets continue with Muslim immigration into Europe it can only end well

I'd be more supportive of banning the practice of all religions in public across Europe. Let people worship what they want to worship in their own homes. Too many stupid people on the planet brainwashed by it trying to force their views on others. That goes for all religions!

LorMal

Tail Docker wrote: »

That's what they're at that is so shocking.


Well, that ought to end well.

And your alternative is..........nothing.
Brilliant.

Iwasfrozen

Tail Docker wrote: »

That's what they're at that is so shocking.

Agreed but I still don't see what it has to do with ISIS.

Well, that ought to end well.

It really can't be worse.

h2005

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

On the contrary, I think public opinion is turning towards direct military intervention. Obama has started bombing ISIS but that's not enough we need to route them out and destroy them before they kill any more innocents.

I was listening to Kevin Cullen on Newstalk yesterday and he said pretty much the opposite with regard the public opinion. 4 or 5 airstrikes isn't going to resolve this. How are the Yazidis going to get off the mountains to safety?

Iwasfrozen

h2005 wrote: »

I was listening to Kevin Cullen on Newstalk yesterday and he said pretty much the opposite with regard the public opinion. 4 or 5 airstrikes isn't going to resolve this. How are the Yazidis going to get off the mountains to safety?

In the case that a ground invasion doesn't take place we'll just have to provide assistance to the Kurds and hope they can get the Yazidis to safety.

DarkyHughes

LorMal wrote: »

i'm sorry but that post is completely wrong on every point.

elaborate?

LorMal

h2005 wrote: »

I was listening to Kevin Cullen on Newstalk yesterday and he said pretty much the opposite with regard the public opinion. 4 or 5 airstrikes isn't going to resolve this. How are the Yazidis going to get off the mountains to safety?

Looks like it won't be 4 or 5 air strikes. Obama said tonight that it will take months.
I am guessing that it will eventually take boots on the ground. UN maybe.

cunnifferous

h2005 wrote: »

I was listening to Kevin Cullen on Newstalk yesterday and he said pretty much the opposite with regard the public opinion. 4 or 5 airstrikes isn't going to resolve this. How are the Yazidis going to get off the mountains to safety?

I'd have to agree, unfortunately I think most Americans are so jaded by previous calamitous interventions in the middle east that there is no appetite for justified and necessary interventions like this situation.

I fear that there will be a couple of air-strikes, a few aid drops and the US and the rest of the west will wash their hands of this.

realweirdo

LorMal wrote: »

We need to stop blaming ourselves, or the Americans, or the 'west' or whatever.

The blame for this is firmly on those who perpetrate these outrages. Let's be clear. Radical Islam is the most negative and destructive force imaginable.
God help is all if these lunatics infiltrate Saudi Arabia.
Another global economic collapse, Russia to hold all the cards, potential for WW3.

Good point. Radical Islam has been kept in check but only just for centuries now by empires or other means. Its a terrible unimaginable ideology far worse in my view than nazism. At least the nazis allowed some people to survive, isis want to kill everyone. When this all dies down everyone needs to be involved in a discussion about islam, its roots and what is historically factual and what is myth and was invented and is fiction. The idea that some people take parts of the koran literally is as scary as the idea that some people take parts of the bible literally. My own view is that the teaching of religion should be banned in schools in europe regardless of faith.

My name is URL

cunnifferous wrote: »

I fear that there will be a couple of air-strikes, a few aid drops and the US and the rest of the west will wash their hands of this.

Aid drops for the next lot of lunatics that want to assume control.

We should give them weapons too,, shur what could possibly go wrong?

cunnifferous

My name is URL wrote: »

Aid drops for the next lot of lunatics that want to assume control.

We should give them weapons too,, shur what could possibly go wrong?

I'm not sure who you are referring to as lunatics. The yazidis? The Kurds?

These are the only people who are receiving aid drops afaik

Killer Wench

I think public opinion is shifting. Because it is pure mission creep, the public is being prepared for boots on the ground by a series of escalated steps. CNN has been building the case for more engagement.

Iwasfrozen

Killer Wench wrote: »

I think public opinion is shifting. Because it is pure mission creep, the public is being prepared for boots on the ground by a series of escalated steps. CNN has been building the case for more engagement.

Being prepared by whom?

suicide_circus

I hope the US stick with this and bomb them into submission.

speedboatchase

I love the Kurds. What a great bunch of lads. Hopefully ISIS is wiped out and they get their own state in Northern Iraq soon.

InTheTrees

speedboatchase wrote: »

I love the Kurds. What a great bunch of lads. Hopefully ISIS is wiped out and they get their own state in Northern Iraq soon.

Yeah. They've always been passed over and yet they've never gone down the terrorist route and always done the right thing by people.

Time to give them some land of their own.

suicide_circus

InTheTrees wrote: »

Yeah. They've always been passed over and yet they've never gone down the terrorist route and always done the right thing by people.

Time to give them some land of their own.

I hear there is some prime real estate east of the West Bank that no ones even using practically.

mad muffin

Tail Docker wrote: »

I don't see 200 though, let alone 2000 and the "dead" kids all have their arms under their heads, posey style. Of the lot, three or four don't look staged. Which is 3 or 4 people killed. Not 2000. Which was my original query. And no, I don't have a weak stomach.

The expert speaks…

A Primal Nut

Tail Docker wrote: »

That's what they're at that is so shocking.


Well, that ought to end well.

It will end a lot worse if the West doesn't send in troops.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11024037/Iraq-crisis-It-is-death-valley.-Up-to-70-per-cent-of-them-are-dead.html

RobertKK

realweirdo wrote: »

It's hard to take you seriously when you say things like this. How is barrel bombing whole cities and their people into obliteration stopping things getting worse? How is attacking relentlessly the moderate fsa while leaving ISIS alone making things better? At least 50% of ISIS fighters came from syria where they were trained and everything else. Its a fact that in the absence of meaningful intervention from the west thousands of jihadists poured into syria to fight. The moderate fsa are made up mostly of syrians. ISIS on the otherhand are made up mostly of foreign jihadists who came to fight the fight the west or others should have fought. Laying the blame for the creation of isis at the door of the west is counter factual. Had the west imposed a no fly zone in syria and properly supported the moderate fsa there would be no isis today. Many people could see the current problems coming at least two years ago and yet they were shouted down by people like you who argued against no fly zones. Policies supported by people like you such as opposing a no fly zone have turned out an unmitigated disaster. And then to cover yourself you try to blame the west. It simply doesn't wash. And your apology for russia is pretty sad.

Russia vetoed UN resolutions while getting Syria to get rid of its chemical weapons, leaving the west in a position where they were neutered.

Where is the mass support for the FSA, certainly not among large sections of Syrians including minorities.

The FSA have been a minority and they have allowed via their actions and their lack of support by Syrians for ISIS to flourish.

ISIS is crucifying Christians in Syria, beheading children. Christians in Syria support Assad as he didn't have a problem in what the religious belief of Syrians is.
We have Qatar and Saudi Arabia who do have a problem with the religious belief of non Sunni people and allies of Iran.
But look what this article says about our allies - Qatar and Saudi Arabia...
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/isis-saudi-arabia-iraq-syria-bandar/373181/

The Free Syrian Army (FSA), the “moderate” armed opposition in the country, receives a lot of attention. But two of the most successful factions fighting Assad’s forces are Islamist extremist groups: Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), the latter of which is now amassing territory in Iraq and threatening to further destabilize the entire region. And that success is in part due to the support they have received from two Persian Gulf countries: Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
Qatar’s military and economic largesse has made its way to Jabhat al-Nusra, to the point that a senior Qatari official told me he can identify al-Nusra commanders by the blocks they control in various Syrian cities. But ISIS is another matter. As one senior Qatari official stated, “ISIS has been a Saudi project.”
ISIS, in fact, may have been a major part of Bandar’s covert-ops strategy in Syria. The Saudi government, for its part, has denied allegations, including claims made by Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, that it has directly supported ISIS. But there are also signs that the kingdom recently shifted its assistance—whether direct or indirect—away from extremist factions in Syria and toward more moderate opposition groups.

It does look like Western allies in the Gulf created a monster that they no longer can control.
This is what happens when one chooses human rights abusers to be our friends due to oil being more important than human life.

.jacksparrow.

Reminds me of sky news reporters laughing and cheering as gadaffi was executed live on air.

Now lybia is worst off and it's people.

Clueless to how things operate in the middle east. You can't just remove these dictators and expect everything to be OK, because its the way it is here.

Its far more comolex.

RobertKK

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Reminds me of sky news reporters laughing and cheering as gadaffi was executed live on air.

Now lybia is worst off and it's people.

Clueless to how things operate in the middle east. You can't just remove these dictators and expect everything to be OK, because its the way it is here.

Its far more comolex.

I would say as badly off as under Gaddafi. I watched the documentary on RTE last Thursday, Gaddafi was a monster, pure evil.

What you say is true though. It is clear that democracy does not work everywhere.

comongethappy

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Reminds me of sky news reporters laughing and cheering as gadaffi was executed live on air.

Do you have a link for that?

I remember that story & don't recall Alex Crawford (who is pretty well renowned) laughing & cheering?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Crawford

.jacksparrow.

RobertKK wrote: »

I would say as badly off as under Gaddafi. I watched the documentary on RTE last Thursday, Gaddafi was a monster, pure evil.

What you say is true though. It is clear that democracy does not work everywhere.

I would be very wary of those "documentaries "

.jacksparrow.

comongethappy wrote: »

Do you have a link for that?

I remember that story & don't recall Alex Crawford (who is pretty well renowned) laughing & cheering?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Crawford

I remember seeing it myself, it was them sitting in studio watching the fottage.