Off Topic Thread V2.0

Digital Solitude

Never heard of a case having zero screw's before, even cheap crap ones

You got some standoffs presumably?

tadcan

I'll have to get some in maplins.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Wow even for adverts that price is obnoxious

http://www.adverts.ie/desktops/nzxt-s340-elite/12177778

Serephucus

You could buy a laptop with better specs, for less money.

Icyseanfitz

jesus only a 1070 in it! could nearly do an sli 1080 or titan build for that, must be that rgb though

Serephucus

G4560 Looks like a monster.

Venom

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

jesus only a 1070 in it! could nearly do an sli 1080 or titan build for that, must be that rgb though

The GPU, CPU and maybe AIO are the only high end parts with the rest being very much budget basement items. Seller is either deluded or taking the pis.

Hell, similar system best part of a grand cheaper lol.

http://www.adverts.ie/desktops/skylake-i7-6700k-gtx-1070-8gb-16gb-ram/12164283

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Asked him a few questions, he doesnt have a rashers.

Also what is with RGB...I am sick of it.

TerrorFirmer

I think if you add up most of the parts it comes to around €1700 unless I'm mistaken - and then you set a price that discourages people taking the piss, but you might be willing to take €1850 to turn a profit assuming that it was built to sell.

I don't really see any major issue with it. For some reason people are totally blind and quite rude towards the commercial nature of building and selling PC's. Someone who does it for a living has to make money somehow?

Hell, similar system almost a 1000 cheaper lol.

http://www.adverts.ie/desktops/skyla...b-ram/12164283

It's not though. It's 800 cheaper and it has a cheap case, way cheaper motherboard, way cheaper CPU cooler, doesn't have the same custom cabling, missing any SSD, etc.

It's not apples and oranges at all.

The seller could probably ditch a lot of the higher-end components, shave off several hundred euro, and it would still represent the exact same value to some people because they don't put any value on them - but the value is there.

It's obvious it was built to sell so I don't see any major issue with the price with that factored in. It's not fair to call something a 'rip-off' when you comparing a brand new, very well and fully assembled PC that you can just pick up and plug in to the raw component price.

I never mention nor promote my own stuff here on boards (and I won't again after this) as I want to keep this board and my adverts stuff completely separate, but I do think people are quite unfair to bricks and mortar, commercial sellers, etc on this forum. They all have to pay costs and keep the lights on, food on the table, etc.

It doesn't mean there aren't ridiculous prices and terrible value out there, either in stores or on adverts, but most prices reflect a reasonable percentage return on cost, and this particular one I don't see much evidence that the seller is taking the piss when you factor in the raw component price, his time, and the price he is likely to accept.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I add it up to 1710 euro being very generous on the parts off amazon. Problem is he is not a offering a warranty like a PC builder, he is selling a second hand PC without customization options. The large builders offer economy of scale, credit facilities, proper invoicing, testing, overclocking, packaging, customisation, support etc.

This machine is similar https://www.scan.co.uk/products/3xs-performance-overclocked-intel-core-i5-7600k-kaby-lake-16gb-ddr4-8gb-evga-gtx-1070-black-256gb-pc thats 1660 euro or 1700 landed with some better parts.

Look I am all for enterprise and business, I know everyone has to make a profit, but the profit on PC building is on the discounts you managed to negotiate on the parts, not on lashing together a machine and saying the 2 hours to screw it together is worth 400 euro. ...god loves a trier mind you.

TerrorFirmer

Yes, but we do not know what his minimum pricing is, to be fair. We all know what adverts is like - you put it up for €1,600 and the first offer is for "€500 cash in hand if you drop it up to Donegal". I'm not the seller so I don't know, however, I can say that if I had something up for €2,100, the price I would be willing to accept would be closer to €1,700 or €1800.

the profit on PC building is on the discounts you managed to negotiate on the parts,

Maybe for big companies bulk selling PC's but for a small/local business your profit cannot simply be from marginal savings made on shopping around for various parts - unless you want to feed your family on instant noodles and baked beans!

You pay a price/premium for local services, that's always the way it's been. It has to be, because smaller and local sellers haven't a hope of price matching major corporations. Dell/Scan/PCS/OCUK/etc can be happy to make a tiny profit per unit based on economy of scale.

And also let's not forget that for every well priced machine, companies like Dell rake in massive, inflated profits on five others. Just the other day I was looking at an Alienware X51 for €899 - with a GTX745. A card that can barely run Battlefield 1 at 1280x720 low settings.

It's a tough market. And there is far worse than charging €100 for your time (although again, no idea what his own minimum is) - I am far, far more aggrieved by those who offer low-powered, low-end machines for high-end prices that are often incapable of doing what the purchasing party wants to do (aforementioned X51 a prime example).

And all the major companies - OCUK, Dell, PCS, Scan, Currys, et al - do this all the time as well unfortunately. At the end of the day I'm happy enough that that is something that I will never, ever do. I'd rather turn someone away with their money then sell them a PC that won't do exactly what a) it should and b) they expect it to do.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Maybe for big companies bulk selling PC's but for a small/local business your profit cannot simply be from marginal savings made on shopping around for various parts - unless you want to feed your family on instant noodles and baked beans!

There is no feeding a family on custom high end gaming machines unless your doing custom waterloops and super high end stuff. Low end is where for profit.

Slapping 400 euro on the parts price even by adverts standards is ridiculous. Your supposed to be selling at a discount not a premium on the new price. Even the IT shops sell at very competitive prices on adverts. The facts you cannot get economy of scale from your bedroom in Tip is not an excuse, its reason to look elsewhere for a living. I see the local fix it shops round my area doing that. Selling last gen, medium end hardware at inflated prices. I think "who buys that when its so easy price check online"....

The IT illiterate want warranty and support not RGB and K series processors. The high end gamer wants actual high end and value. If your going to try sell something for more than its worth at least put some effort into the ad, like the actual specs.

I have dealt with a retailer on adverts a lot who sells refurbished business machines. Low spec and medium spec. He offers warranty, free shipping. Prices are super keen and of the 5 or 6 machines I have not one has ever given a single days trouble. He buys whole palates of machines for what that chap put into that computer in parts.

Redfox25

Kingsley Cuddly Aircraft wrote: »

There is no feeding a family on custom high end gaming machines unless your doing custom waterloops and super high end stuff. Low end is where for profit.

Slapping 400 euro on the parts price even by adverts standards is ridiculous. Your supposed to be selling at a discount not a premium on the new price. E.

Just a query on this the highlighted bit Fitzgeme

Why sell it at a discount? That chap, not me either btw, is selling to turn a profit no doubt. Its a high end machine, rather than a machine dubbed as high end and rocking a 2009 processor and integrated graphics card as some sellers do.

Some folks would rather pay someone to build for them rather than go through the effort of building it themselves.

Cuddlesworth

Redfox25 wrote: »

Just a query on this the highlighted bit Fitzgeme

Why sell it at a discount? That chap, not me either btw, is selling to turn a profit no doubt. Its a high end machine, rather than a machine dubbed as high end and rocking a 2009 processor and integrated graphics card as some sellers do.

Some folks would rather pay someone to build for them rather than go through the effort of building it themselves.

Those same folks also pay for a warranty and make hardware failures somebody else's problem. Which is not being offered at that price. Your paying the extra just for somebody building it for you.

If he was a proper business, he would find that its unsustainable to try compete with the likes of the larger builders.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Why would you pay above top drawer prices to a amateur who build in his kitchen?.

Venom

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I think if you add up most of the parts it comes to around €1700 unless I'm mistaken - and then you set a price that discourages people taking the piss, but you might be willing to take €1850 to turn a profit assuming that it was built to sell.

I don't really see any major issue with it. For some reason people are totally blind and quite rude towards the commercial nature of building and selling PC's. Someone who does it for a living has to make money somehow?



It's not though. It's 800 cheaper and it has a cheap case, way cheaper motherboard, way cheaper CPU cooler, doesn't have the same custom cabling, missing any SSD, etc.

It's not apples and oranges at all.

The seller could probably ditch a lot of the higher-end components, shave off several hundred euro, and it would still represent the exact same value to some people because they don't put any value on them - but the value is there.

It's obvious it was built to sell so I don't see any major issue with the price with that factored in. It's not fair to call something a 'rip-off' when you comparing a brand new, very well and fully assembled PC that you can just pick up and plug in to the raw component price.

I never mention nor promote my own stuff here on boards (and I won't again after this) as I want to keep this board and my adverts stuff completely separate, but I do think people are quite unfair to bricks and mortar, commercial sellers, etc on this forum. They all have to pay costs and keep the lights on, food on the table, etc.

It doesn't mean there aren't ridiculous prices and terrible value out there, either in stores or on adverts, but most prices reflect a reasonable percentage return on cost, and this particular one I don't see much evidence that the seller is taking the piss when you factor in the raw component price, his time, and the price he is likely to accept.

The PC I linked might have a cheaper case, mobo and CPU fan but will offer pretty much the same levels of performance in gaming. The system in question only has high end CPU ( now last gen) and GPU with the rest of the build being mid to low level parts and just sticking some RBG and good cable management into it, is not going to make it worth that asking price and you know it.

Redfox25 wrote: »

Just a query on this the highlighted bit Fitzgeme

Why sell it at a discount? That chap, not me either btw, is selling to turn a profit no doubt. Its a high end machine, rather than a machine dubbed as high end and rocking a 2009 processor and integrated graphics card as some sellers do.

Some folks would rather pay someone to build for them rather than go through the effort of building it themselves.

For a second hand PC at that price, its not really that high end a system imho as the majority of the components are bargain basement/budget level.

Alpha8

Hi, sorry if this is the wrong place to post this but has anyone bought PC parts from AlzaShop?
Thanks

TerrorFirmer

We can argue it all evening but just because you don't place value on something doesn't mean that value doesn't exist, be it on paper or only to certain people.

I fully agree that to the average joe, both systems are essentially the same. However they are not the same, and to use one as a means to point out the excessive price of the other isn't really that fair.

When I'm recommending PC's to people, I almost always consider expensive coolers, Z-series boards, premium power supplies, etc a waste of money given that most people don't need them nor would they appreciate any differences.

However, some people always want 'the best' and are happy to pay for that paper spec, even if they receive no tangible benefits in return.

It goes way beyond just 'good cable management and lighting' - notwithstanding that good cable management and lighting does have an actual value, the hardware parts in the more expensive PC are much better - objectively.

Whether they represent good, or better value for money, is the subjective part depending on who is buying.

Slapping 400 euro on the parts price even by adverts standards is ridiculous. Your supposed to be selling at a discount not a premium on the new price.

Firstly, as I've said, due to the culture of adverts, something has to be priced at a certain point to actually get where you want to be. The €400 figure is being quoted, but his actual target margin could be a fraction of that. I don't know. It's not me. But the 400 isn't an absolute.

Local business cannot and does not compete with major international corporations. I don't understand how people can't see this. Some people prefer to go to their local guy. Some people prefer to collect something and see it working before handing over money. Some people prefer to just simply buy local, and others again for convenience, impatience, etc.

For a second hand PC at that price, its not really that high end a system imho as the majority of the components are bargain basement/budget level.

Is that really a fair comment? A 6700K, with a Z270 board, GTX1070 Strix, X52 watercooler, 16GB Ballistix ram in a S340 as the core.

There's very little in the build I would deem bargain basement or budget. CX650M, maybe, no idea what model SSD it is, but on the whole it is a higher end build.

To me a bargain basement build would be something like an i7-6700 non-k with a basic H110M mobo, in a cheap €20 case, with 8GB of generic ram without heatspreaders, the cheapest possible GTX1070 and a Kolink 350w power supply.

And as you rightly said to most people the performance would actually be the same but all the same we can't really label them as equal in value.

Those same folks also pay for a warranty and make hardware failures somebody else's problem. Which is not being offered at that price. Your paying the extra just for somebody building it for you.

But people do ask this on B&U...all the time, and have done, for years. "Is there someone who will build a custom PC for a fee"?

They're willing to pay someone to assemble in the knowledge that it offers them nothing in return other than a working machine. It's service provided and it does have a value attached - it's up to the person paying to decide whether or not it represents good value.

Again, I usually would never mention my adverts stuff on this forum, so when I'm giving advice or answering questions I'm pretty sure that no-one could accuse me of having any sort of motive or agenda (not that anyone is or was, but there is a market for this stuff).

Why would you pay above top drawer prices to a amateur who build in his kitchen?.

You could ask this same question about virtually everything on the open market. People just do - sometimes it's an informed decision, sometimes it's an ignorant one, sometimes it's convenience, impatience etc.

There are sellers on Donedeal (and on Adverts as well) selling antiquated, out-dated, gaming PC's for huge money - and people are buying them. Everyday, unfortunately.

There are Core 2 Duo machines with 8800GT's being sold as 'Gaming PC'.

But there's often two in it. I very recently had a guy who wanted a PC to play Battlefield 1 for €200. I told him it wasn't really possible but I could get him one to play it at high settings for €300.

He said "I'll leave it thanks" and a quick look at his comments show that he instead commits to buying a Core 2 Quad machine with a 1GB ATI card (yes, as in, pre-AMD) for €200.

You are right about the low-end though, that's where you can offer something unique ergo money to be made in the longer term. For example, I could build a PC to play BF1 at high settings for €300 (as in €300 price, build cost lower) What would you get for €300 brand new? Very little. This is where knowledge in particular goes a long way.

There are far worse crimes happening in the world of PC sales than some guy selling a PC for a few hundred more than the raw components cost. And places like Dell, Scan, etc are all in the act as well. For every excellent value machine there's a low-end, under-powered and outdated PC sold with fancy lights for top $$$.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Look for 100 euro less asking price you can get this and its got a 1080 and the seller is open to offers

http://www.adverts.ie/desktops/ultra-end-gaming-pc-6700k-16gb-ddr4-gtx1080/11808302

I take your point terrorfirmer, but I dont know why you are so understanding of these chancres. They are either gouging or they dont know. I would tend to the latter on that seller.

SickBoy

Kingsley Cuddly Aircraft wrote: »

Look for 100 euro less asking price you can get this and its got a 1080 and the seller is open to offers

http://www.adverts.ie/desktops/ultra-end-gaming-pc-6700k-16gb-ddr4-gtx1080/11808302

I take your point terrorfirmer, but I dont know why you are so understanding of these chancres. They are either gouging or they dont know. I would tend to the latter on that seller.

There's no one forcing someone to buy this machine and I'm sure whoever does will not be offering the asking.
The seller is probably aware he won't get the asking price and has priced a delta into his asking price so the buyer feels good about getting a few hundred off the asking price and the seller is already willing to sell for a few hundred less than asking so everyone is a winner.

K.O.Kiki

New Scythe FUMA twin-tower air cooler looks like it might be the new mid-range champ - better cooling than most water AIOs!

*edit* another review

papu

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

New Scythe FUMA twin-tower air cooler looks like it might be the new mid-range champ - better cooling than most water AIOs!

*edit* another review

Beautiful ,

I'm still rocking my Thermalright IFX-14 (Almost 10 years now), and as long as there are adapters to make it fit , I will continue.

Do people here Buy new coolers with each Build?

glynf

Tend to change out AIO's every build. I have heard a few horror stories regarding leaks, though never had any issues myself.

Venom

papu wrote: »

Beautiful ,

I'm still rocking my Thermalright IFX-14 (Almost 10 years now), and as long as there are adapters to make it fit , I will continue.

Do people here Buy new coolers with each Build?

I think the mounting holes for coolers has stayed the same for the last couple of CPU sockets and apart from height problems with ram sticking with the same cooler should be fine.

TerrorFirmer

Possible pricing for Ryzen. €150 for a 4c/8t CPU would be pretty sweet if the performance is competitive with Intel.

wotzgoingon

I'm still in two minds if I should update or not, as my current CPU is perfect and gives me excellent performance.

BloodBath

€350 for the 8/16 is really good as well considering it's not far off the level of intels €1100 8/16 6900k. I imagine the €500 version is a binned higher clocked "extreme edition".

I'll be looking to replace my 3570k with 1 of these. Probably the €350 8/16 depending on how it overclocks. The €250 6/12 may be the best all rounder for gaming systems for a good balance of clock speed and cores.

If these prices are for real AMD won't be long taking big market share from intel.

frozenfrozen

long time no see

K.O.Kiki

Overclocked 8c/16t Zen looks good; I game at 120Hz, wondering if my Xeon is the bottleneck for stable high FPS.

BloodBath

Thanks, yeah I haven't been on here much lately. Have a little look from time to time to see if I'm missing anything. Still waiting on AMD's Vega and Ryzen for a proper upgrade.

I'm working on a game using Unreal Engine 4 at the moment. Solo project for now but I'll be looking to recruit some people soon. Working demo will be shown in a few months. Think of a cross between Mario Kart and Micro Machines for PC, hopefully consoles further down the line.