Women who just seem to hate and love to put down other women

Cabaal

Ok, first off I'm a man but this is something I've noticed over my life,

What is it with some women who just love to see other women fail in things or they just love putting them down, they don't want them to progress at jobs, think women are the cause of abuse they get, think they are incapable of driving big cars etc.

I've seen this type of viewpoints in company's I've worked for where women will actively bully other women who are doing better then them, yet I've not seen the same sort of crap happen with men.

Does it happen perhaps because when it comes to bullying men tend to be more physical bullying as opposed to women who tend to be more physiological bullying perhaps?

Also I see and hear it alot in day to day life, "oh, what does she want with getting a big important job like that for" or "sure she doesn't need to be driving that car, she won't be able to handle it". Yet again you never hear these comments directed at men.

Finally, we see it on boards.ie. Hell, you even see it in this forum most recently where some people are quick to blame women for abuse they receive or to defend others who have no problem with people who try to threat women differently when it comes to medical issues.

What are your views on this? Why does it happen?

My guess is its a society thing left over from the backwards views spread by the catholic church...basically women are second class and incapable, you've only to look at the awful backwards laws and viewpoints discussed in the "The Shaming and Control of Women" thread to see where alot of it comes from.

In some respects women seem to be their own worst enemy's, its kind of odd at times

metaoblivia

Internalized misogyny. That's what it comes down to. My grandmother was like this - hated other women. Wasn't very good at getting along with most people, but there was absolutely no chance she would get along with another woman.

She was born in 1918 and grew up in a time where women weren't valued as highly as men, and that coupled with crippling insecurity and an inferiority complex made her a very bitter woman. Because her life revolved around impressing men, she viewed other women as threats. What if this woman was more attractive? What if that woman was a better cook? What if this woman was a better mother?

And as she aged and lost her looks, it just got worse. She couldn't be in the same room as my other grandmother because the last time they were - when I was quite young - she ended up throwing a drunken temper tantrum, screaming and yelling insults, because she thought my other grandmother was getting too much attention.

When she died, two people showed up to her service - her husband and her son. No one else - not her grandchildren, not her sisters or brothers, no nieces or nephews, and she had no friends.

My father was her only child, and thank god she never had any girls because she treated my mother and I horribly. I can't imagine having someone like that as a mother.

Some insecure women are threatened by women's success in general. It ups the ante to a level they feel they can't achieve so instead of rising to the challenge they try lower the bar by diminishing the achievements of other women. There will always be those who want to establish the status quo at a level they're happy with, and resent anyone who oversteps that mark.

Women were also encouraged to be competitive in the looks department, were valued so much by their looks rather than their characters or achievements that songs were written about it..."Keep young and beautiful, it's your duty to be beautiful. Keep young and beautiful, if you want to be loved..." In the post war years when men were thin on the ground, the competition was vicious. I'd say Metaoblivia's gran was one of these women.

Theres also the big fish in a small pond syndrome. If you're an insecure person and the only one of your gender in a pool of talent, you stand out. Resentment might set in when another woman enters the pond because it delegates the first as an also ran, not an only, and results in a perceived loss of status.

And then there's the sort of pervading societal sexism that devalues womens contributions. People who grow up in very sexist families (the stereotypical Irish 'mammy' family, where the daughter helps the mother look after the sons - because they have more important things to do than look after themselves). This teaches the men that 'women's work' is a triviality of lesser value, and it teaches a fair few girls that too.

Historically few women were in positions of authority, and were considered unable to show the same leadership as men. This was a curse to most women and a blessing to some. It added a whole other layer of expectation to an already layered life when it changed. Women looked after the kids, the house, the school runs, all the domestic stuff, and now were expected to contribute to the household finances as well. So on top of being a good mother and a good housewife and a good wife, women were now expected to be good earners too, before the equality in the rest of her life was sorted out. So if a woman in that position is working away and struggling to keep going and a younger, childless, better educated model comes in and out performs her, resentment isnt' an unlikely outcome much of the time.

And there are always women who define their self worth by how they're perceived by men and are fuelled by male attention. Another woman on the scene doing better than she is is a real threat to the kind of woman who thinks of all other women as bitches.

And then of course, there's the church. Catholicism turned women against each other by dividing them into Madonnas/Whores. The 'good' women and men, who were validated by the church by providing them with new stock (and free cleaning crews} were encouraged to condemn and turn in the other kind, the whores. Generations of distrust were fostered by the use of shame to control women, and old habits die hard.

So habit, history, and upbringing, combined with a narrow view of a womans value, and a sizeable dollop of plain old small mindedness, is behind most of it in my not very considered opinion.

sashafierce

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eviltwin

sashafierce wrote: »

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Competition for what? What is the prize?

I dunno, I've seen women who are horrible to other women but they would be equally as horrible to men too, I've never met a bully who targets women specifically. I've met plenty of older women who judge other women more harshly than men and have put that down to age or a cultural thing. I work in an all female environment so the potential for this is huge but the women I work with are nothing but supportive and caring and welcoming. We have each others backs but we would do that if we had male co workers too. I just don't see it or know anyone who constantly tries to get one up on other women. I wouldn't hang out with someone who behaved like that. I don't want to be watching myself in that way around people who are supposed to be friends.

sashafierce

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eviltwin

sashafierce wrote: »

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A lot of women don't care what people look like either.

sashafierce

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Shakespeare's Sister

I want to be careful not to come off as one of those "Women are so bitchy, that's why I hang around with guys" type women or caving into the "Women actually hate each other and are secretly all in competition with each other" bullsh-t mindset beloved of misogynists, but the thing is, it's actually the former type women whom I associate with what the OP is saying. They're, without a hint of irony, the "bitchy" women whom they themselves refer to. Viewing other women as a threat.
Meta's grandmother's outlook definitely seems like the foundation of such views. Or those situations where the mother makes it clear that she prefers her sons to her daughters, and gives her daughters a hard time.

Of course a lot of women don't care how people look, that doesn't mean there aren't women who are obsessed with it.

eviltwin

sashafierce wrote: »

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Is that them or your insecurities?

sashafierce

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eviltwin

sashafierce wrote: »

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I wasn't having a go!! I know what you mean, some people give off a vibe of "don't come near me", now I'm the kind of person who will talk to anyone, don't care who they are or what they look like and I find most people who look unapproachable are actually pretty decent when you talk to them and very happy to chat. If you are basing your views on what you think someone is like just by the way they look it may not be accurate.

sashafierce

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baby and crumble

I have occasionally noticed some girls being bitchy for no real reason- and I say 'girls' because we were in school! I've never experienced that kind of thing, but maybe (and this is pure conjecture) part of it is because I am not in any even vague competition with them, if they were to view life like that. I'm not after their men, I'm not competing with them in the looks departments (because I have a very different style to most women), and I'm just not the kind of person to be easily intimidated. If anything, I get 'bristling' from men more than I do bitchiness from women. It's interesting to say the least...

I encountered a good bit of the behaviour in the OP when I was a kid in an all-girls boarding school, but I'm happy to say that it's just never been something I've experienced since. I'm lucky I suppose since all the women in my life are nothing but supportive and generous of heart and spirit.

meeeeh

eviltwin wrote: »

Competition for what? What is the prize?

I dunno, I've seen women who are horrible to other women but they would be equally as horrible to men too, I've never met a bully who targets women specifically. I've met plenty of older women who judge other women more harshly than men and have put that down to age or a cultural thing. I work in an all female environment so the potential for this is huge but the women I work with are nothing but supportive and caring and welcoming. We have each others backs but we would do that if we had male co workers too. I just don't see it or know anyone who constantly tries to get one up on other women. I wouldn't hang out with someone who behaved like that. I don't want to be watching myself in that way around people who are supposed to be friends.

And I think that this stereotyping how much more bitchy women are than men does plenty of damage. Unlike eviltwin I don't work with women. I work with men and there was plenty of drama, jealousy, "bitchiness" through the years. And there is plenty of friendliness and cooperation too. Men can be insecure too. I saw one or two friends being jealous of another, drama in bands arguments about girlfriends and so on. Just because sometimes women react a bit more openly or more 'emotionally' doesn't mean that the women are nastier to each other.

I actually saw this thread and thought to myself not again. Very often it's men who spend very little time among women saying how much bitchier they are or women who don't spend much time among men telling us how much better men are.

MissFlitworth

I have vague memories of my Mam's friends being a little like this when I was a teenager but I've just never come across it in my personal life. Maybe in school a bit and a little in college with the 'Girls are such bitches, I'm much happier around guys' crowd but just never in my adult life. I must have a seriously amazing family, past set of colleagues and friends both past & present because threads like this make me go 'Wha? Seriously? People do that?!' Not that I think anyone is lying about their own personal experience, just mine is so different.

beks101

IME this kind of bitchy high school "mean girls" thing has dramatically faded since I left school (all girls convent school) and moved onto college and the 'real world'. Can't really relate to it in any real way now in my late twenties.

I've grown up in a very female environment and had nothing but support from female family, friends and acquaintances over the years - well done on getting that job, travelling the world, losing that weight, hooking up with that hot guy, whatever.

I don't live in a world where women are a threat, I live in a world where women are powerful and inspiring and have no limits in terms of what they're capable of. I had the very opposite of a bitchy, petty mother who thought that "women should know their place" - I would say she paved the way for the sort of support and encouragement that I've experienced over the years.

My view is that petty people will be petty. I've a few cousins who grew up in a fish bowl and live a very parochial life with a narrow world view - it's all about who you're dating, how you look, how much you're earning. I smile and nod when I'm around them because I feel sorry for how stifling that kind of attitude must make their lives; there's just so much of the world and of your own life that you won't experience when you're so keenly focused on someone else's business.

With that too there's been times when I've gotten into wicked physical shape and among the slaps on the back there'd be a handful of female acquaintances who didn't like it one bit - the stares up and down, snide comments, backhanded compliments etc. It's no news to anyone that women can be remarkably insecure when it comes to their appearance and obviously weight plays into that in a big way - I guess historically and socially we're constantly encouraged to sell ourselves on our 'beauty' above all else, so it's not surprising that some people can take it as a personal affront when someone else betters themselves physically.

Generally I find this attitude that women are bitchy with one another and in direct competition in some sort of ruthless way very poisonous and think that attitude in itself breeds a sort of bitchiness towards women.

If you're surrounded by people who put you down or begrudge you the happy things that happen in your life constantly, perhaps it's time to regroup and take stock of the kind of company you're keeping, rather than developing a generalized view of women being some sort of enemy constantly trying to cut you down. Most of the women in my life are absolute gems who take delight in my own happiness and successes, and if they didn't I'd very swiftly walk away.

Lou.m

I got along with most in school and college I was not hugely popular but not unpopular. Women generally see me as non threatening, perhaps mildly annoying and over the top. I have made efforts to welcome really cool women into my life in the past year and it has really enriched my life :-)

I don't find women put me down anymore than men. Maybe the WAY it is done is different.

Morag

It seems that the same age at which girls (preteen & early teen) stop doing sports all their competitiveness get channelled into social standing games. I honestly think that this becomes the only outlet for many for thier competitive natures.

meeeeh

I don't know. I've been in a very mixed class in high school and there was very little fuss anything going on. My brother was on another school and they were all guys and had way more squabbles among themselves.

FunLover18

This thread reminded me of a link I saw on facebook there recently; 17 things every girl needs to remember at all times

Number 14 nearly made me sick

Girls in relationships gain a stone on average, so if you’re single just remember you’re winning right now.

Do some girls actually think like this?

pwurple

I think there is some of this in Irish people in general. for example, the media demonisation of anyone earning over 100k. That seems to be some magic number beyond which you are the antichrist. The delight when wealthy people's businesses failed during the recession astounds me.

I very much hope and aim to earn over 100k some day by working hard. I know well that if I was doing that in the US, I'd be applauded for that aim, and would be delighted to tell my family if/when I got there. Here.... I'd keep my gob very tightly shut about it.

Irish people just love to take eachother down. Any sign of confidence and your friends will see it as their duty to take the piss out of you. In some ways, I like it, keeps people grounded, but the begrudgery annoys me too.

Cabaal

Morag wrote: »

It seems that the same age at which girls (preteen & early teen) stop doing sports all their competitiveness get channelled into social standing games. I honestly think that this becomes the only outlet for many for thier competitive natures.

Might be a factor,
More men then women maintain an interest in sports after their teens,

Football, rugby, cycling, swimming, running. Far more men doing all these things then women. Alot of the excuses I hear from women when it comes to exercise is they don't want top be seen sweating etc...so again we're back to the obsession with looks with some women.

It seems to be all a very vicious circle

lazygal

I've known a few "I'm happier hanging out with guys, women are so nasty" women and I don't understand it because tarring every single woman with the same brush is insane. Really, every single woman you know is a total beeach so you decide to only have male friends? I've also known some bitchy men who would be just as vicious as women. It's a human trait not a female trait to try to cut some people down to size. There's also an Irish thing about getting above yourself and having notions, some Irish people think its a personal attack when others have ambition or want to do something different.

I think this is changing a lot and the point about careers is really important because having a wider world view, more choices in life, education, mixing with a border range of people etc.,

I would not be friend with some one who is not supportive of me, and having a friend who pretends to be smaller size or anything like that sounds border line peculiar.

I have in general had great support from other women except for one work situation however afterwards I realised this person had a lot of issuers with themselves and it had nothing to do with me really.

Any key?

Candie wrote: »

I encountered a good bit of the behaviour in the OP when I was a kid in an all-girls boarding school, but I'm happy to say that it's just never been something I've experienced since. I'm lucky I suppose since all the women in my life are nothing but supportive and generous of heart and spirit.

I have to say I have had a similar experience. Went to an all-girls school and work in a mostly female environment. With the exception of a bit of cliqueyness at school I haven't experienced much women hating women. I am surrounded by kind, supportive and friendly women luckily.

iwantmydinner

The women in my life are just awesome. Supportive, funny, complex, smart, sociable, ambitious, generous... I could go on and on.

Any women I have come across who were wagons have tended to be wagons in general, rather than aiming their badness at other women in particular.

(ETA: like the woman I walked past yesterday who decided to scream "state of your legs! You have no ankles" after me. I doubt she reserves that sad vitriol for women alone. Sap.)

EXCEPT FOR that breed of woman who treats her sons like gods and her daughters like unpaid domestic helpers. There's a special place in hell for those women.

Neyite

pwurple wrote: »

I think there is some of this in Irish people in general. for example, the media demonisation of anyone earning over 100k. That seems to be some magic number beyond which you are the antichrist. The delight when wealthy people's businesses failed during the recession astounds me.

I very much hope and aim to earn over 100k some day by working hard. I know well that if I was doing that in the US, I'd be applauded for that aim, and would be delighted to tell my family if/when I got there. Here.... I'd keep my gob very tightly shut about it.

Irish people just love to take eachother down. Any sign of confidence and your friends will see it as their duty to take the piss out of you. In some ways, I like it, keeps people grounded, but the begrudgery annoys me too.

I think this is a lot of it - there is a cultural idea about 'not letting people get above themselves' or not acknowledging someone successful in what they do or earn for fear they'd get a big head. Its all right for your mammy to brag about your success - expected even, but if you do it yourself, you are up yourself.

In a sort of related way, the way that big celebrities can more or less go about in Ireland without getting hounded, because you cant be letting on that you recognise them, cos that'd be giving them a big head. :P

The only women who did the whole 'girls hate me, I get on better with guys' that I've encountered are ones who like to be Queen Bee of the group - if there is another woman who they deem to be prettier/ more popular then they work on ostracising them from the group. In my experience, those Bees, while they talk about how drama-lama girls are, are usually the instigators of any drama and disharmony in the group.

eviltwin

Cabaal wrote: »

Might be a factor,
More men then women maintain an interest in sports after their teens,

Football, rugby, cycling, swimming, running. Far more men doing all these things then women. Alot of the excuses I hear from women when it comes to exercise is they don't want top be seen sweating etc...so again we're back to the obsession with looks with some women.

It seems to be all a very vicious circle

You should get out and meet some new women I've never heard of anyone so into their looks they are afraid to sweat although I know some who are lazy so it makes a good excuse. Absolutely there are women out there who are very vain, self absorbed but many many more are not.

sashafierce

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beks101

Neyite wrote: »

The only women who did the whole 'girls hate me, I get on better with guys' that I've encountered are ones who like to be Queen Bee of the group - if there is another woman who they deem to be prettier/ more popular then they work on ostracising them from the group. In my experience, those Bees, while they talk about how drama-lama girls are, are usually the instigators of any drama and disharmony in the group.

This is very true actually.

I worked with a woman in Canada who treated me with hostility and an absolute air of unwelcome from day one. In a very underhand, barely detectable way to anyone but me - ignoring me when I tried to join a conversation with fellow colleagues, switching tone from "life and soul of the party" around other colleagues to cold, stand-offish, exasperated to have to force herself to talk to me even on professional terms. Continually finding fault with my work in an excessive manner.

Being brand new to the country and slightly intimidated by the job at hand in the first place, I took it very personally and found myself internalizing the reaction - was it something I did, said, had I crossed some sort of invisible line?

Said woman would have described herself as a "guy's girl"; bonding, laughing, joking and licking aRse with all our male colleagues, who would have described her as the 'joker' of the desk, full of personality, always laughing and cracking jokes etc. It was truly perplexing and very isolating.

Her behaviour continued for years until my time at the job was nearing an end and I got chatting with a few female colleagues, who action-for-action repeated back exactly the same treatment from her since they started in the office - hostility, rudeness, coldness, cutting them down, what can only be described as insidious bullying. A formal complaint had even been lodged against her and she'd already been given a warning.

All of these women would have been brand new to the job, younger than her, on a more junior level to her, prettier than her (she was extremely overweight, which seemed to play into her attitude towards them), some of them interns, all of them a bit nervous and eager to make a good impression and fit in as you would be starting off at a very big international company and a very prestigious national team.

And she, by her own admission, was "one of the lads". I'd overhear conversations she'd have at the desk where she'd cut other women down in the most absurd way - pick apart their appearance, mimic their voices as though they were high-pitched, squeaky airheads with no clue what they were doing (far from), tear down their work. All in a very subtle way, under the guise of "just having a laugh".

I'd never experienced that to such a level before in my life tbh. And it was clearly a woman who was motivated by this strong urge to isolate herself from her own gender and position herself "above" other women as a means of masking her own insecurities. Aside from how incredibly sad and pathetic it was - to me it was an act of setting back feminism and equality among the sexes by about fifty years.

clare82

Beks I could have written your post word for word. The exact same thing happened me in dublin. Didn't go on for so long....ah I still remember the day she handed in her notice....was a great day!

LegacyUser

I am in the UK and I kind of experienced it. My OH works with a woman who from the first looked down her nose at me. He socilises with work a lot so I used to come along and that is how I met her. She tore me and my self confidence to shreds cos she is younger, thinner, on a better career path (different industries), smarter, more fun, etc. The very worst part of this is that she has my OH convinced of it too, which is why my confidence is in bits. She slept with one engaged man and ditched him as soon as he broke up with his fiance. I know that this is what is happening with my OH too.

I wish her nothing but misery in life. I have nothing positive to say about her but she is almost universally adored. Does this make me a woman hating woman because I hate her with every fibre of my being or does it make her a woman hating woman because slowly but surely she loves to rip other women apart?

I have stopped going to these things but I spoke to another female who is starting to experience the same thing. It is a repeated pattern of behaviour.

ivytwine

God I feel sorry for that individual Beks. I sincerely doubt she was as beloved by the men as she thought she was. Also sorry for you and your female colleagues.

There was quite a lot of that in my school, all-girls, and another bit of it when I was in college- but it was guys doing it. I got rather repeatedly stabbed in the back in college by guys.

I really believe the need to exclude and undermine is in no way a female only trait, it's one of the nastiest and baser elements of human nature, something that's genderless.

It's really baffling when you hear women say "Oh I prefer hanging out with men, women are such bitches". It's like, are you including yourself in that?

I've thankfully never really experienced this much in adult life. I had one "friend" who would be fairly cutting with her remarks, and who would try to put me down at any opportunity. I once caught her trying desperately to get into my fella, he was well wide to it and he couldn't stand her, she had no interest in him either - it was very much a case of wanting to prove that she could have him if she wanted. She couldn't though. We stopped being friends after that.

Later on there was another girl who was seemingly jealous of all other women. She used to make bitchy comments and get little subtle digs in anywhere she could. She was very much only there because she was in a relationship with a guy I'm friends with for years. When they broke up, I never saw her again.

Both of those women though, were just assholes, and there wasn't a person amongst us that didn't know they were assholes. I've known men who were assholes too!

Other than that, I've had great relationships with men and women alike. I get on with most people. I'm a very non threatening and friendly person. I want my friends to always do well, and they want me to always do well. We wish encourage each other and we congratulate each other on our successes. This applies to male and female friends. Work wise, I'm in a male dominated department in a very female dominated environment. I see both sides, and I still don't experience what is being discussed. Perhaps I've just been very very lucky, but the vast majority of people that are in my life are wonderful people who have no interest in putting others down.

diveout

pwurple wrote: »

I think there is some of this in Irish people in general. for example, the media demonisation of anyone earning over 100k. That seems to be some magic number beyond which you are the antichrist. The delight when wealthy people's businesses failed during the recession astounds me.

I very much hope and aim to earn over 100k some day by working hard. I know well that if I was doing that in the US, I'd be applauded for that aim, and would be delighted to tell my family if/when I got there. Here.... I'd keep my gob very tightly shut about it.

Irish people just love to take eachother down. Any sign of confidence and your friends will see it as their duty to take the piss out of you. In some ways, I like it, keeps people grounded, but the begrudgery annoys me too.

I despise this character of the culture, even so called friendly slagging. It demonstrates how pervasive shaming is.

Soft Falling Rain

beks101 wrote: »

This is very true actually.

I worked with a woman in Canada who treated me with hostility and an absolute air of unwelcome from day one. In a very underhand, barely detectable way to anyone but me - ignoring me when I tried to join a conversation with fellow colleagues, switching tone from "life and soul of the party" around other colleagues to cold, stand-offish, exasperated to have to force herself to talk to me even on professional terms. Continually finding fault with my work in an excessive manner.

Being brand new to the country and slightly intimidated by the job at hand in the first place, I took it very personally and found myself internalizing the reaction - was it something I did, said, had I crossed some sort of invisible line?

Said woman would have described herself as a "guy's girl"; bonding, laughing, joking and licking aRse with all our male colleagues, who would have described her as the 'joker' of the desk, full of personality, always laughing and cracking jokes etc. It was truly perplexing and very isolating.

Her behaviour continued for years until my time at the job was nearing an end and I got chatting with a few female colleagues, who action-for-action repeated back exactly the same treatment from her since they started in the office - hostility, rudeness, coldness, cutting them down, what can only be described as insidious bullying. A formal complaint had even been lodged against her and she'd already been given a warning.

All of these women would have been brand new to the job, younger than her, on a more junior level to her, prettier than her (she was extremely overweight, which seemed to play into her attitude towards them), some of them interns, all of them a bit nervous and eager to make a good impression and fit in as you would be starting off at a very big international company and a very prestigious national team.

And she, by her own admission, was "one of the lads". I'd overhear conversations she'd have at the desk where she'd cut other women down in the most absurd way - pick apart their appearance, mimic their voices as though they were high-pitched, squeaky airheads with no clue what they were doing (far from), tear down their work. All in a very subtle way, under the guise of "just having a laugh".

I'd never experienced that to such a level before in my life tbh. And it was clearly a woman who was motivated by this strong urge to isolate herself from her own gender and position herself "above" other women as a means of masking her own insecurities. Aside from how incredibly sad and pathetic it was - to me it was an act of setting back feminism and equality among the sexes by about fifty years.

God what a nightmare. This may be controversial but I'm always weary of the ones who describe themselves as a "guy's girl" or "having all male friends because women are nuts".

Now, of course, this is just in my experience. But when a woman describes herself as above, to me, it just comes across as having a chip on her shoulder towards all women. Or, I tend to think "how on earth has every woman you've met contributed to such a sour opinion of all women?" It's because often, it's not the other women who are the problem.

meeeeh

I wonder why has always have to be some stereotype to generalise. Now all other girls are nice but the ones hanging out with men. While in reality you can't judge anyone without knowing them at least a bit.

Soft Falling Rain

meeeeh wrote: »

I wonder why has always have to be some stereotype to generalise. Now all other girls are nice but the ones hanging out with men. While in reality you can't judge anyone without knowing them at least a bit.

It wasn't meant to be a generalisation. There's no problem with women preferring the company of men. I was referring to women who have to constantly disparage other women whilr preferring the company of men.

pharmaton

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

It wasn't meant to be a generalisation. There's no problem with women preferring the company of men. I was referring to women who have to constantly disparage other women whilr preferring the company of men.

we should shame them all pronto

dellas1979

Very interesting thread! (its made me think

I generally find females very hard to get on with.

I have some very close female friends, whom I choose to be friends with as they are good natured, honest, good people, and dont bitch. It is hard to find such qualities! I see my friends (male and female) as a reflection of myself. If Im in a conversation with anyone who starts this bitching milarkey, my spidey senses say "*insecure*...move away quickly".

Ironically, a guy I work with once just blurted out (in front of an office) "ah so youre the queen bee". My office is generally run by an under tone of bitchyiness, but something I stay well out of. I was unsure what this meant. Queen bee to me means being bitchy or trying to be popular. And its the very opposite of what I believe (if anyone has problems etc, Im the "go to'er as I love to help people).

So, if what he projected on me is true, Queen Bees can also be good/nice people. But, if I caught anyone being mean to anyone, hell hath no fury than a dellas scorned.

Maybe the term "Queen bee" has been mis-used? Im not sure.

cactuspaw

to be honest, i have spent a good deal of my life around women (and a few men also) who feel the need to put others down. Whether its havinga high powered job and "having notions about themself" or making certain life choices because of financial issues and being considered "tight" or "a bit of a mess". It got to an extent a while ago where i felt i couldnt do anything without upsetting sombody.

The best thing is, just find people who are delighted you have a great job or who understand you cant buy be part of the expencive weekends, but will happily enjoy your company none the less. There will always be people like that and vice versa, probably because it is the law of nature.

Neyite

On another forum, there is an expression "to be Wendy'ed" and it describes a situation, you befriend a new female and you invite her to join in with your friends, but slowly realise that over time, your old friends are a tad cooler with you, or you find that they now go out together, leaving you out. It turns out that the Wendy is skilled in passive agressive communication and subtly discredits you to your friends over time until they reduce contact with you. A Wendy usually does not have long term friends of her own.

The term Wendy was just where the OP had said "I have this new friend, new to the area, lets call her Wendy, who I invited to join me and my friends, and now they all go out without me and ignore me ..."

It turns out lots and lots of women had been Wendy'ed in their lives too, and it became a forum catchphrase.

So, have you ever been Wendy'ed by anyone?

I have, in a work environment and its not nice at all. I got her the job, trained her up, made life very easy for her, and we were great friends, only to find that she was having intimate tete-a-tetes with my team leaders (who were also good friends of mine) making herself out to be the one fixing my mistakes when the reverse was true, and she got a promotion we both went for that I found out afterwards was because she had gone to my supervisors with faux-concern over an issue in my personal life and hinted that my work was suffering as a result and the stress of a new position would tip me over the edge. . All bollocks of course, but the damage was done by then.

iwantmydinner

Jesus. F*ck Wendy!

meeeeh

I have a group if friends that were often too direct and sharp and you would get a thick skin and reply with similar. One of the guys from the group told my friend that I really annoy him and that I was very hurtful with one of the comments. I tried to be more considerate after that but anyway that guy later became my best friend. What I am trying to say is that we were very direct and even hurtful sometimes but never backstabbing. I had some smaller squabbles in my life but I haven't been in a fight where grudge lasted more than a day since secondary school. Partly it's the fact that I am fairly easy going and can get along with a lot of people. Partly it is because I rarely get intense or attached enough to be hurt but mostly I think I've just been lucky with who my friends are.

Btw we did have a bitchy friend. There was no big falling out but she was working for her father who was a broker for an insurance company. It turned out she was pocketing money people paid in (including her friends) and almost destroyed her fathers business. She had the inteligence to kind of remove herself from our group of friends, especially considering she burned some. I wasn't hurt in it in any way but I found it so two faced that I could never be close to anyone like that again. We are still polite with each other when we meet but very formal. The irony about it is that she was probably the one that was the most poisonous when commenting on other people and their failings.

czechlin

Neyite wrote: »

On another forum, there is an expression "to be Wendy'ed" and it describes a situation, you befriend a new female and you invite her to join in with your friends, but slowly realise that over time, your old friends are a tad cooler with you, or you find that they now go out together, leaving you out. It turns out that the Wendy is skilled in passive agressive communication and subtly discredits you to your friends over time until they reduce contact with you. A Wendy usually does not have long term friends of her own.

The term Wendy was just where the OP had said "I have this new friend, new to the area, lets call her Wendy, who I invited to join me and my friends, and now they all go out without me and ignore me ..."

It turns out lots and lots of women had been Wendy'ed in their lives too, and it became a forum catchphrase.

So, have you ever been Wendy'ed by anyone?

I have, in a work environment and its not nice at all. I got her the job, trained her up, made life very easy for her, and we were great friends, only to find that she was having intimate tete-a-tetes with my team leaders (who were also good friends of mine) making herself out to be the one fixing my mistakes when the reverse was true, and she got a promotion we both went for that I found out afterwards was because she had gone to my supervisors with faux-concern over an issue in my personal life and hinted that my work was suffering as a result and the stress of a new position would tip me over the edge. . All bollocks of course, but the damage was done by then.

Wow, that is quite shocking. I haven't been Wendy'ed and I hope I never will. I just don't understand the need some people have to act like this. It's awful

seenitall

czechlin wrote: »

Wow, that is quite shocking. I haven't been Wendy'ed and I hope I never will. I just don't understand the need some people have to act like this. It's awful

Yes, that's a really horrible experience alright. Thank heavens it never happened to me, but I can only imagine how damaging it would be, how powerless you'd be feeling in the face of such insidiousness, treachery and malice.

I'm a rather direct person in my dealings with people, I wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in such a scenario.

Horrible.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

Lou.m

On another forum, there is an expression "to be Wendy'ed" and it describes a situation, you befriend a new female and you invite her to join in with your friends, but slowly realise that over time, your old friends are a tad cooler with you, or you find that they now go out together, leaving you out. It turns out that the Wendy is skilled in passive agressive communication and subtly discredits you to your friends over time until they reduce contact with you. A Wendy usually does not have long term friends of her own.

Wendy'd (not sure how to spell this) ah yes women do this a lot. Im abroad at the moment and before I left Ireland two of my mates met each other and Im definetly feeling a bit wendied by them at the moment.... I dunno how its gonna go when im home if they are still really gonna need my friendship or not I don't think they will isolate me intentionally but it can just happen.... may wait and see!

Most of the time I don't notice when this stuff goes on. Crafty people go way over my head.

Generally people who have come my way have been ok. One or two baddies but mostly good.

Morag

So, have you ever been Wendy'ed by anyone?

Yes, and she was also very good at playing the victim.
She isolated me from most of my friends after working her way in close with me, joining me in hobbies,
and then it was like a switch was flipped and she did her best to destroy my reputation and have me shunned.
Eventually her tripped up over her own lies, but it was a very hard 3 years until that happened.