So less and less of 747

adam88

Would I be right in saying were going to see less and less of 747 in commercial service these days. Only a few of the large carriers are using them and I'm nearly sure they'd get rid of them if fiances allowed.

Jimmy444

adam88 wrote: »

Would I be right in saying were going to see less and less of 747 in commercial service these days. Only a few of the large carriers are using them and I'm nearly sure they'd get rid of them if fiances allowed.

My pre-nup explicitly states that I get to keep the family 747.

Tenger

adam88 wrote: »

Would I be right in saying were going to see less and less of 747 in commercial service these days. Only a few of the large carriers are using them and I'm nearly sure they'd get rid of them if finances allowed.

Fixed that for ya!!

In relation to the B747. Yes their overall numbers will drop from here on in. It was/is a magnificent aircraft and was partially responsible for making mass air travel possible.

Unfortunately its efficiency has been superseded by the B773/A380. The industry as a whole has seen the move away from massive hubs into a growth of point to point services. The B787/A350 will continue this process.

However the B747 will continue to grace global skies for many years to come. Especially with the B748i so recently having entered service. Cargo Ops of course will continue for even longer.

iusedtoknow

I was at FRA the other day, it was great to see so many 747's trundling around the tarmac - both cargo and passenger LH and UA

Comhrá

I remember back in the 1980's spending happy days at Heathrow plane-spotting on top of The Queen's Building and seeing dozens of 747s arriving and departing all day.

I recall reading an article at the time that on a good day at Heathrow, roughly 10% of the world's B 747 fleet was on the ground at any given time.

A wonderful sight, a heavily laden departing 747, lifting off so slowly and lumbering into the sky - almost in slow motion.

Those were the days!

adam88

Tenger wrote: »

Fixed that for ya!!

In relation to the B747. Yes their overall numbers will drop from here on in. It was/is a magnificent aircraft and was partially responsible for making mass air travel possible.

Unfortunately its efficiency has been superseded by the B773/A380. The industry as a whole has seen the move away from massive hubs into a growth of point to point services. The B787/A350 will continue this process.

However the B747 will continue to grace global skies for many years to come. Especially with the B748i so recently having entered service. Cargo Ops of course will continue for even longer.

Someone needs to tell ethiad and emeriates that the hub idea is being phased out. Lol

adam88

Tenger wrote: »

Fixed that for ya!!

In relation to the B747. Yes their overall numbers will drop from here on in. It was/is a magnificent aircraft and was partially responsible for making mass air travel possible.

Unfortunately its efficiency has been superseded by the B773/A380. The industry as a whole has seen the move away from massive hubs into a growth of point to point services. The B787/A350 will continue this process.

However the B747 will continue to grace global skies for many years to come. Especially with the B748i so recently having entered service. Cargo Ops of course will continue for even longer.

Someone needs to tell ethiad and emiriates that the hub idea is being phased out. Lol

gumbo1

Even the air France cargo 747 hasn't been seen in Dublin for a while!

Tenger

adam88 wrote: »

Someone needs to tell ethiad and emiriates that the hub idea is being phased out. Lol

I think "phased out" may be a bit strong. "Less reliant on" would be more suited.

However the B777-9X concept does have the possibility of allowing ultra long haul flights, which could mean the stop in DXB/AUH/IST could be avoided. (However I cant see EK changing their network in this instance)

smurfjed

My local airport has about 25 of them dumped either awaiting sale or scrapping, but we still have a lot of them operating, as someone pointed out, the 747 costs very little to purchase or lease these days, its fuel costs are certainly higher than the 777/A380, but for airlines without the ability to finance the capital outlay, they still love the Jumbo. We still operate 4 of them in VIP configuration, and at a guess due to leased aircraft numbers changing, we have about another 30 of them in passenger or cargo configurations, so that means i get to see -SP's/100/200/300/400/8F's on a daily basis :)
Couple of friends flying the -8F, they love it, and considering that they jumped from A320's into the left seat of the 747, its quite a transition.
I think that i will be lucky to see 747's around my skies for years to come.

adam88

smurfjed wrote: »

My local airport has about 25 of them dumped either awaiting sale or scrapping, but we still have a lot of them operating, as someone pointed out, the 747 costs very little to purchase or lease these days, its fuel costs are certainly higher than the 777/A380, but for airlines without the ability to finance the capital outlay, they still love the Jumbo. We still operate 4 of them in VIP configuration, and at a guess due to leased aircraft numbers changing, we have about another 30 of them in passenger or cargo configurations, so that means i get to see -SP's/100/200/300/400/8F's on a daily basis :)
Couple of friends flying the -8F, they love it, and considering that they jumped from A320's into the left seat of the 747, its quite a transition.
I think that i will be lucky to see 747's around my skies for years to come.

I'd give my left arm to get into one of the VIP configurations. I suppose I could dream on and hope that one day I'll be successful to enjoy such luxury. Lol

Tenger

smurfjed wrote: »

........
Couple of friends flying the -8F, they love it, and considering that they jumped from A320's into the left seat of the 747, its quite a transition.......

Thats a huge jump to the left.....a million mils and more I would say.

It no longer fits most airlines models due to its fuel thirsty engines and the fact it has four, four seems to be an evil word for airlines. Two is the in word for short medium and long haul flying. Even the A380 is suffering and Emirates are demanding an engine improvement to improve fuel burn.

smurfjed

Could this be a secret replacement for the B747?

adam88

smurfjed wrote: »

Could this be a secret replacement for the B747?

Sorry for being so slow but am I missing something

smurfjed

Umm, i thought that it looked funny to see the wings with loads of engines.... but i guess not!

billie1b

smurfjed wrote: »

Umm, i thought that it looked funny to see the wings with loads of engines.... but i guess not!

He may be just slow, I got it

Tenger

adam88 wrote: »

Sorry for being so slow but am I missing something

Yup. His humour. Not a bad thing though. I got it too.

the_monkey

Heartbreaking - but the 747 on the way out, A380 seems to be the future for long haul high volume passengers.

And the 748 is such a beauty .. I'm gonna try and book a Lufty long haul with that - pity they don't go to San Fran ..

Everything has it's time an then we move on. Plenty have said the same for other aircraft. Concorde in particular.

the_monkey

Deleted User wrote: »

Everything has it's time an then we move on. Plenty have said the same for other aircraft. Concorde in particular.

747 >>>>>>>> Concorde !!

:P

smurfjed

Total number of Concorde aircraft built = 14, total number of B747's = over 1500. Not really a fair comparison.

donkey balls

The 747 will be a round for a long time as a heavy weight freighter as the MD11/B777F have not got cargo doors big enough to get certain freight on board,But a lot of the express freight crowd are going for big twins like the 777F take the MD11F from memory it holds 26 main deck spaces on the upper deck and the 777F 27.
Now it might only be one position more but you don't have the cost of running an extra engine.

the_monkey

smurfjed wrote: »

Total number of Concorde aircraft built = 14, total number of B747's = over 1500. Not really a fair comparison.

Wasn't there a russian "Concorde" aswell ?

billie1b

the_monkey wrote: »

Wasn't there a russian "Concorde" aswell ?

Yeah, the Tupolev TU-144

smurfjed

Did it ever enter commercial service?

billie1b

smurfjed wrote: »

Did it ever enter commercial service?

For a brief spell, not long

Tenger

the_monkey wrote: »

Wasn't there a russian "Concorde" aswell ?

I think there were only ever 2.

EDIT:
Oops. 16!!!

Must look at wiki before posting

billie1b

Tenger wrote: »

I think there were only ever 2.

There was 16 of the TU-144 built, 2 crashed in the prototype and testing stages, there was only a total of only 102 commercial flights with them, the rest were all cargo

Strumms

They will indeed remain as freighters for many years to come. I can also see a surge at some point in the 748F orders although the pax version doesn't seem to be catching on. Twins are certainly where it's at which is a shame in a way as the 748 is a great aircraft.

pclancy

You'll still see them around for a while, but maybe not so much in the northern hemisphere.

Qantas are one airline that have really held on tightly to their 747s and will be flying them for some time to come, having refitting nine of them with their A380 style interior and upgrades. I think a mixture of bad management and delays to their A380 and Dreamliner orders made them forced to hold on to them and their 767s way longer then planned, an expensive fleet to maintain! The other problem for Qantas is the 747 crews are on a very expensive and rigid employment agreement, generally tend to be the older mature FAs, with the younger FAs being posted straight to the A380 on a cheaper contact.

Their other 6 are on the way out and I think well overdue as their interiors were getting quite tatty. Sad though as at one stage I think Qantas were entirely made up of 747s and even a few 747SPs crossed the Tasman and Domestic Oz routes.

Check out this photo of the upper deck back in the day:



Air New Zealand have only a handful left and Singapore and Cathay following suit.

ohigg84

The 747 will be around for many years to come, albeit mainly as Freighters, but Boeing is currently in the process of increasing the the weight of the 747-8I to increase it's range, but also strengthening the landing gear to facilitate this! I hope it secures more orders. Can't really see many orders for the A380, it's too big an aircraft!

smurfjed

Can't really see many orders for the A380, it's too big an aircraft!

What do you mean by this? I was extremely surprised a few days ago when i heard an Emirates A380 heading towards Madinah, Saudi Arabia. I would have considered this airport totally unsuitable for an A380, and yet it appears that they are going there. So the market for A380 destinations is slowly opening up.

billie1b

smurfjed wrote: »

What do you mean by this? I was extremely surprised a few days ago when i heard an Emirates A380 heading towards Madinah, Saudi Arabia. I would have considered this airport totally unsuitable for an A380, and yet it appears that they are going there. So the market for A380 destinations is slowly opening up.

They fly to a few airports that are not gate/air bridge ready, they park remote and use buses

circular flexing

smurfjed wrote: »

What do you mean by this? I was extremely surprised a few days ago when i heard an Emirates A380 heading towards Madinah, Saudi Arabia. I would have considered this airport totally unsuitable for an A380, and yet it appears that they are going there. So the market for A380 destinations is slowly opening up.

I don't think that it's lack of airports that's hindering the sales of the A380, I think it's the fact that it's an expensive plane to run. Emirates have been in the news recently saying they won't purchase anymore A380s until Airbus change the engines on them to give 10% reduction in operation costs. If you consider that Emirates are by far the biggest customer of A380s, then it doesn't look good for future orders.

smurfjed

This one is pretty pretentious with the crown seat in the majalis style room, the bedroom is located upstairs.

The owner of this B747-400 was also the initial purchaser of the A380 VVIP aircraft, but this was later sold and it is unknown if it will ever be seen in a VIP configuration.

smurfjed

Following up on the comment by circular flexing, i found this....

http://leehamnews.com/2014/02/03/updating-the-a380-the-prospect-of-a-neo-version-and-whats-involved/

Very interesting

Borzoi

billie1b wrote: »

There was 16 of the TU-144 built, 2 crashed in the prototype and testing stages, there was only a total of only 102 commercial flights with them, the rest were all cargo

Feckin small inside

Borzoi

billie1b wrote: »

There was 16 of the TU-144 built, 2 crashed in the prototype and testing stages, there was only a total of only 102 commercial flights with them, the rest were all cargo

Feckin small inside

Tenger

Borzoi wrote: »

Feckin small inside

Well Concorde wasn't too big either.

Concorde-aft cabin by tearbringer, on Flickr

billie1b

Tenger wrote: »

Well Concorde wasn't too big either.

Concorde-aft cabin by tearbringer, on Flickr

True, but I think he was talking about the cargo end of it

bbbaldy

circular flexing wrote: »

I don't think that it's lack of airports that's hindering the sales of the A380, I think it's the fact that it's an expensive plane to run. Emirates have been in the news recently saying they won't purchase anymore A380s until Airbus change the engines on them to give 10% reduction in operation costs. If you consider that Emirates are by far the biggest customer of A380s, then it doesn't look good for future orders.

A lot of L/H routes depend on cargo in the holds as a very important part of the overall money to be made on the flight, (not a small amount, quite significant) the A380 has more passengers than other aircraft but the cargo holds are not much bigger. I know of one very large European airline that is rethinking their commitment to buy.

smurfjed

Delta retiring four 747s as Pacific restructuring continues

By: Edward Russell
Washington DC
Delta Air Lines will retire four Boeing 747-400s by the end of 2014, as it continues to restructure its Pacific operations around a gateway at Seattle/Tacoma International airport.
The Atlanta-based SkyTeam alliance carrier will retire the aircraft “early” following a decision to reduce planned capacity growth, it says. It will have 12 747-400s in its fleet at the end of the year.

thats another 4 gone

tawnyowl

smurfjed wrote: »

This one is pretty pretentious with the crown seat in the majalis style room, the bedroom is located upstairs.

The owner of this B747-400 was also the initial purchaser of the A380 VVIP aircraft, but this was later sold and it is unknown if it will ever be seen in a VIP configuration.

Oh wow. Very bling! Much gold decor!

tawnyowl

billie1b wrote: »

There was 16 of the TU-144 built, 2 crashed in the prototype and testing stages, there was only a total of only 102 commercial flights with them, the rest were all cargo

One crash was very public - at the 1973 Paris Air Show.

Later on, some used to train cosmonauts for Buran shuttle programme. (Buran made one automated flight, but was cancelled after collapse of Soviet Union. Hangar collapse destroyed Buran in 2002.)

smurfjed

Much gold decor!

Yep, the 2 small tables in the top picture were something like $150,000 EACH!

the_monkey

The SP is a beauty , I remember one year one was in Dublin Airport hangar and my uncle took us in to see it ..




oops, linked the wrong image there - I remember it being an Air India one, but I can't find a pic :S

Tenger

billie1b wrote: »

True, but I think he was talking about the cargo end of it

Opps..my mis-read.

OT: I managed to get a chance to get inside the Soviet shuttle test vehicle OK-GLI back in 2001 when it was in Sydney. Very cool experience. Must try to find that pic of me in the cockpit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK-GLI

Tenger

the_monkey wrote: »

The SP is a beauty , I remember one year one was in Dublin Airport hangar and my uncle took us in to see it ..

I respectfully disagree. I find the SP to be 'stumpy'. In the similar vein I have a similar opinion of the A380 and the B788. I think the stretch version of both will look so much nicer.

afatbollix

smurfjed wrote: »

Could this be a secret replacement for the B747?

That is at the top gear test track. It was used in the James Bond film and left there. They were trying to sell it for ages but now used as a Film set for Films and TV programs.

Tenger

afatbollix wrote: »

That is at the top gear test track. It was used in the James Bond film and left there. They were trying to sell it for ages but now used as a Film set for Films and TV programs.

Actually Smurfjed posted a blurry image of 3 (?) B747's in line astern on the ground somewhere in the Middle East.

The aircraft you are thinking of is currently situated on Dunsfold Airfield in Surrey. This is the site of the Top Gear test track and the B747-200 was mocked up to act as the "SkyBus S570" in Casino Royale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-BDXJ