Medical card and private health insurance

sleepyheadh

kneemos wrote: »

Given the stories you hear about people waiting years for simple life changing operations it's almost irresponsible not to have private insurance.

Those cases were not urgent in the greatest sense - if you are truly sick you are well looked after in this country

sleepyheadh

omahaid wrote: »

Really? Ok.

Let's say we have a person who for whatever reason qualifies for a medical card (we'll say a life time disability and their only income is the disability allowance). Also let's say they have taken out a private health insurance policy. Now, they need an operation. They can wait for the public system to carry out the operation and the state pays or they can use their private policy and get it done in a private hospital and in this case the private health insurance pays. You see how having the private health insurance cover in this instance saved the tax payer money?

Why does this person not use their private insurance for their gp visits? And I don't mean anyone with a long term disability who is on a discretionary card just to be clear

omahaid

OP, I don't understand what you think should happen? If someone qualifies for a medical card then they qualify. If they choose to spend €10 a week on health insurance then they are perfectly entitled to do that. Do you think they should be prevented from doing so or do you think the medical card shouldn't be given to people who can afford €10 a week for private health insurance?

madfcuker

I don't know why the OP is getting rattled. Everyone has a choice. If you qualify for a medical card, apply for one and if you can afford health insurance pay for it.

sleepyheadh

omahaid wrote: »

OP, I don't understand what you think should happen? If someone qualifies for a medical card then they qualify. If they choose to spend €10 a week on health insurance then they are perfectly entitled to do that. Do you think they should be prevented from doing so or do you think the medical card shouldn't be given to people who can afford €10 a week for private health insurance?

We'll lets just get it straight the basic cover with VHI is €1000 per year not a tenner a week

kneemos

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Those cases were not urgent in the greatest sense - if you are truly sick you are well looked after in this country

If you have a debilitating illness for months and years it becomes urgent.
There was a lady on the radio the other day who was waiting for back surgery for eighteen months or something,she could barely walk and every time a date was set for the operation it got postponed,that to me is certainly urgent.

sleepyheadh

kneemos wrote: »

If you have a debilitating illness for months and years it becomes urgent.
There was a lady on the radio the other day who was waiting for back surgery for eighteen months or something,she could barely walk and every time a date was set for the operation it got postponed,that to me is certainly urgent.

Yes and maybe if those who could afford to pay for treatment; such as visiting their GP, paid for the service there would be more money available to the health service to pay for operation such as that one.

Instead we are forking out for the medical expenses of the greedy who only want to save themselves 50 quid for visiting their GP

omahaid

sleepyheadh wrote: »

We'll lets just get it straight the basic cover with VHI is €1000 per year not a tenner a week

Glo health €9.88 a week, look it up. I never mentioned vhi. I hope you have it straight now

Turtwig

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Why does this person not use their private insurance for their gp visits? And I don't mean anyone with a long term disability who is on a discretionary card just to be clear

At a guess? Because then they wouldn't be able to pay for their private stuff. The medical card affords them the opportunity to seek private healthcare and a result they increases their chances of being able to remain as productive as possible to society.

Which would you rather?
Person A: medical card and private health insurance. notices some bizarre symptoms and goes privately to get a diagnosis as quick as possible. Less intensive follow-up care and treatment necessary. Best chance of keeping some level of productivity to society.

Person B.
No medical card, or private insurance.
Notices the same bizarre symptoms. Waits a year and a half for proper diagnosis through the public system. By then quality of life is severely impacted. Future morbidity is high, and productivity back to society is questionable for a long period. Cost incurred to the state will be much larger.

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

We'll lets just get it straight the basic cover with VHI is €1000 per year not a tenner a week

VHI One Health Starter €547, €10.52 a week.

sleepyheadh

omahaid wrote: »

Glo health €9.88 a week, look it up. I never mentioned vhi. I hope you have it straight now

Cheapest I can get it down to is €13, you'll have to teach me your secrets!

That level of cover only covers percentages of certain things. What will the person do in that situation?

Atlantic Dawn

This is like someone being given a council house and then having another house they own privately that they rent out, crazy crazy country. The PPS numbers should be checked with those with health insurance, anyone with a medical card who also has health insurance should have the medical card removed until such time as the country has a pot to pi$$ in and those who actually require a card are given one.

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

VHI One Health Starter €547, €10.52 a week.

Maximum benefit of €1000 per person per yeAr.. That will disappear pretty fast if you get sick!!!!

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Yes and maybe if those who could afford to pay for treatment; such as visiting their GP, paid for the service there would be more money available to the health service to pay for operation such as that one.

Instead we are forking out for the medical expenses of the greedy who only want to save themselves 50 quid for visiting their GP

So you want the "greedy" person to pay for private health insurance, pay their GP €50, potentially pay tax, PRSI, USC contributing to state coffers for medical card cover, while the GP gets paid the €50 plus the fee for having that person as a medical card patient? Sounds like a handy number for the GP.

The health service has numerous problems with it, medical card patients with private insurance is not one of them.

Turtwig

sleepyheadh wrote: »

That level of cover only covers percentages of certain things. What will the person do in that situation?

That pretty much sums up most health insurance policies. Only the supremely expensive ones come close to covering "everything". Said in quotation marks because it's like unlimited data. Unlimited but still limited.

sleepyheadh

Turtwig wrote: »

At a guess? Because then they wouldn't be able to pay for their private stuff. The medical card affords them the opportunity to seek private healthcare and a result they increases their chances of being able to remain as productive as possible to society.

Which would you rather?
Person A: medical card and private health insurance. notices some bizarre symptoms and goes privately to get a diagnosis as quick as possible. Less intensive follow-up care and treatment necessary. Best chance of keeping some level of productivity to society.

Person B.
No medical card, or private insurance.
Notices the same bizarre symptoms. Waits a year and a half for proper diagnosis through the public system. By then quality of life is severely impacted. Future morbidity is high, and productivity back to society is questionable for a long period. Cost incurred to the state will be much larger.

Two great examples there. What about the real instance where the person notices the symptom goes to the gp with the medical card and is immediately treated based on the severity of the illness!

Or the person with private medical insurance goes to the gp, claims back the cost and is also treated for the illness.

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Maximum benefit of €1000 per person per yeAr.. That will disappear pretty fast if you get sick!!!!

So first VHI don't do private health insurance for 10 euro a week, then the 10 euro a week cover isn't good enough for you. Talk about moving the goalposts...

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

So you want the "greedy" person to pay for private health insurance, pay their GP €50, potentially pay tax, PRSI, USC contributing to state coffers for medical card cover, while the GP gets paid the €50 plus the fee for having that person as a medical card patient? Sounds like a handy number for the GP.

The health service has numerous problems with it, medical card patients with private insurance is not one of them.

No I want them to pay for private insurance if they can afford to do so, or if they are unable to do so and meet the eligibility for the medical card use that.. Not both!

Turtwig

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Two great examples there. What about the real instance where the person notices the symptom goes to the gp with the medical card and is immediately treated based on the severity of the illness!

Or the person with private medical insurance goes to the gp, claims back the cost and is also treated for the illness.

GP's very often can't treat symptoms without further investigations. The length of time those investigations can take can mean everything for the person's quality of health and future contribution to society.

The elephant in the room, that you're clearly ignoring is if a medical patient goes private they free up their waiting list for another person who can't afford to go private. Thus impacting two lives, not just one.

howamidifferent

Anecdotal and so by no means reliable but in my company have heard of senior management getting redundancy payments increased by virtue of the fact they had managed to acquire a medical card after being told they were to be made redundant.

kneemos

sleepyheadh wrote: »

No I want them to pay for private insurance if they can afford to do so, or if they are unable to do so and meet the eligibility for the medical card use that.. Not both!

Everyone wins if a medical card holder has private insurance.

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

No I want them to pay for private insurance if they can afford to do so, or if they are unable to do so and meet the eligibility for the medical card use that.. Not both!

So someone who meets eligibility for the medical card should not be allowed to forego luxuries, budget or use savings to take out private health insurance? Seriously?

sleepyheadh

Turtwig wrote: »

GP's very often can't treat symptoms without further investigations. The length of time those investigations can take can mean everything for the person's quality of health and future contribution to society.

The elephant in the room, that you're clearly ignoring is if a medical patient goes private they free up their waiting list for another person who can't afford to go private. Thus impacting two lives, not just one.

The real elephant that you don't understand is that the health service in Ireland is very much linked..GP's and hospitals are all paid from the same fund..if people who can afford to pay for gp services don't they are taking money away from the overall fund. Thus reducing the number of operations that can be performed in hospitals.

Any benefit that the person in your scenario begets for the common good, is only making up for the money and services they have cost the state

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

So someone who meets eligibility for the medical card should not be allowed to forego luxuries, budget or use savings to take out private health insurance? Seriously?

If a person can save, and has enough money to pay rent should they be given a council house?

sullivlo

I have a medical card. I have some chronic long term illnesses that require lots of medication that are covered by the medical card but not on the drugs payment scheme. If I didn't have my card, I simply couldn't afford to eat. I have had my card means tested in the past few months and it has been extended.

I also have health insurance. A basic policy that covers my hospital admissions and my consultant visits. My consultant works in a private clinic and doesn't see public patients.

I had health insurance before I had my medical card, and if I let it lapse, I would not be covered for any pre existing medical conditions for 5 years.

I feel terrible for having a medical card, particularly seeing how they've taken them off others. I have spoken to my GP about it and she said that she thinks that losing my medical card would be detrimental to my health: my insurance would only cover €20 per visit, and if I get a flare up of my illness I could require maybe 2 visits a week to my GP for injections (it's easier and cheaper for all involved if I don't take up a hospital bed).

I tried to get rid of my card but the department said I should keep it.

In the eyes of the OP I'm wrong. And I get that. But it's not all always black and white.

sleepyheadh

sullivlo wrote: »

I have a medical card. I have some chronic long term illnesses that require lots of medication that are covered by the medical card but not on the drugs payment scheme. If I didn't have my card, I simply couldn't afford to eat. I have had my card means tested in the past few months and it has been extended.

I also have health insurance. A basic policy that covers my hospital admissions and my consultant visits. My consultant works in a private clinic and doesn't see public patients.

I had health insurance before I had my medical card, and if I let it lapse, I would not be covered for any pre existing medical conditions for 5 years.

I feel terrible for having a medical card, particularly seeing how they've taken them off others. I have spoken to my GP about it and she said that she thinks that losing my medical card would be detrimental to my health: my insurance would only cover €20 per visit, and if I get a flare up of my illness I could require maybe 2 visits a week to my GP for injections (it's easier and cheaper for all involved if I don't take up a hospital bed).

I tried to get rid of my card but the department said I should keep it.

In the eyes of the OP I'm wrong. And I get that. But it's not all always black and white.

As I have said in previous posts I am specifically targeting those who do not suffer from LTI's.

juliedxx

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Maximum benefit of €1000 per person per yeAr.. That will disappear pretty fast if you get sick!!!!

That max is only for the day to day benefits under section 9. Which is pretty crap, and if you work out benefits/excess its almost impossible to claim anything back on this plan.
There is no monetary max on the hospital benefits, just the overall no of days max which is 180 days in a year.
Plans like this are really not worth having, they only entitle you to Public hospital treatment. Yes you can be a private patient in a Public hospital, but normally that means waiting on the public system to see the consultant and then if you need a procedure carried out they ask you on the day if you want to be private, which at this stage doesn't make a blind bit of difference!!
A lot of the people who have both Health Insurance and a medical card are the over 70s, for whom the income threshold for the medical card is higher. So they dont have to be completely destitute to qualify for a medical card.
Someone mentioned further up about paying a loading to have cover for pre existing conditions straight away....this isnt the case. Some large companies who have big lucrative group schemes with the insurance companies will waive the waiting periods. This is basically a tool used by the insurer to get the business of the large companies. Tends to be the companies who subsidise insurance for their employees. But the ordinary joe soap can't pay extra to have waiting periods disappear unfortunately!

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

The real elephant that you don't understand is that the health service in Ireland is very much linked..GP's and hospitals are all paid from the same fund..if people who can afford to pay for gp services don't they are taking money away from the overall fund. Thus reducing the number of operations that can be performed in hospitals.

Any benefit that the person in your scenario begets for the common good, is only making up for the money and services they have cost the state

What about the money paid to hospitals by private health insurance providers for services, is that from the same fund?

As I said earlier, the whole system is a broken two tiered system and needs to be overhauled completely, not much point fiddling with one symptom of this faulty system in isolation.

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

What about the money paid to hospitals by private health insurance providers for services, is that from the same fund?

As I said earlier, the whole system is a broken two tiered system and needs to be overhauled completely, not much point fiddling with one symptom of this faulty system in isolation.

Oh yes I'm Sorry if we can't solve the problem entirely we should never speak of it.. Apologies

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

If a person can save, and has enough money to pay rent should they be given a council house?

So I'll take from this response that you are in favour of prohibiting medical card holders from taking out private insurance. I, and many others, would not agree with this.