Medical card and private health insurance

sleepyheadh

I was talking to a fellow boards member earlier today and they were quite open about the fact they had a medical card but also pays for health insurance.

I thought it completely defeated the purpose of the medical, clearly the guy had enough money to afford health care, yet he still felt perfectly comfortable in saying he had the medical card.

Is this a common thing?

Turtwig

Health insurance requires a 5 year waiting period for pre-existing conditions. In short, if you anticipate losing your medical card having health insurance for a few years ain't a bad idea. (If you can afford it.) There's also the added option of not just solely being at the whims of the public system.

Doubt it's a common thing to have both though.

sleepyheadh

But doesn't that completely defeat the purposes of the card, I.e to allow those who can't afford medical care to seek care.

The way I see the person is taking advantage of the system.. They are using the medical to see the gp for free and then if they have to go to the hospital they get a nice room and don't have to wait too long.

I mean with all the cuts that have bee seen recently is it not a bit greedy to be taking advantage of the medical card system when you can pay for health insurance, while others who rely on the medical card completely.

omahaid

It probably is greedy but I would be very greedy when it comes to the health of my family so I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting the best they can get.

Turtwig

The medical card doesn't cover private healthcare costs. Also, it's entirely possible that a person can afford a health insurance policy, or their employee or club provide it, but they can't afford adequate health care.

If a patient opts to go the private route they're not putting anything private on the tax payers tab. They're also indirectly freeing up a free overcrowded service to all whom may need it. Struggling to see how that's a bad thing?

sleepyheadh

omahaid wrote: »

It probably is greedy but I would be very greedy when it comes to the health of my family so I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting the best they can get.

So you feel that it's right to use tax payers money even though you can afford medical care? This is exactly why the system is in such a state..did you not hear of all the medical cards being taken off children with downs? Do you think it is fair to deny them the care they need just because you are "greedy" when it comes to your kids!

mickydoomsux

I don't have either.

I'm a mad ****er.

sleepyheadh

Turtwig wrote: »

The medical card doesn't cover private healthcare costs. ?

Obviously not why would it?

omahaid

sleepyheadh wrote: »

So you feel that it's right to use tax payers money even though you can afford medical care? This is exactly why the system is in such a state..did you not hear of all the medical cards being taken off children with downs? Do you think it is fair to deny them the care they need just because you are "greedy" when it comes to your kids!

You can get angry all you want but until it is forbidden for people with medical cards to also have private medical insurance then though for you.

Sauve

sleepyheadh wrote: »

So you feel that it's right to use tax payers money even though you can afford medical care? This is exactly why the system is in such a state..did you not hear of all the medical cards being taken off children with downs? Do you think it is fair to deny them the care they need just because you are "greedy" when it comes to your kids!

Chill.
The guy wouldn't have a medical card unless his means deemed him eligible. You don't get one of those bad boys easily, believe me.
He's probably making major cutbacks in other areas in order to pay the health insurance bill.

sleepyheadh

Turtwig wrote: »

The medical card doesn't cover private healthcare costs. Also, it's entirely possible that a person can afford a health insurance policy, or their employee or club provide it, but they can't afford adequate health care.

If a patient opts to go the private route they're not putting anything private on the tax payers tab. They're also indirectly freeing up a free overcrowded service to all whom may need it. Struggling to see how that's a bad thing?

But they are using it to receive free gp care! Ie using up resources.. And then only going private when it suits them. They are using the public sector when it suits them and saves them a fortune

cloud493

I'm confused, I don't know why you'd bother having both.

InReality

The medical card ( under current law ) should only be given to people on low incomes. So yer man must be lying to HSE about his income .

sleepyheadh

Sauve wrote: »

Chill.
The guy wouldn't have a medical card unless his means deemed him eligible. You don't get one of those bad boys easily, believe me.
He's probably making major cutbacks in other areas in order to pay the health insurance bill.

Over 40% of people have them. So many they are more commonplace then you think

sleepyheadh

cloud493 wrote: »

I'm confused, I don't know why you'd bother having both.

Basically so you can go to the gp for free and then if you are sent to hospital or need a op you don't have to wait And get a nice room and bed

omahaid

Are you saying that if I have a medical card and I can also afford to pay for private medical insurance I should be prevented from doing so?

corner of hells

My ex has bad health , a couple of different long term illnesses and has had quite a bit of surgery , she has health insurance and a medical card , that's been reviewed a few a few times over the years.
When its being reviewed she writes a letter giving details of her health and includes all her details of MRIs , scans , visits to consultants , bloodtests etc and eventually get her card.

One her surgical procedures could have a wait two plus years publicly or a couple of weeks privately.She wouldn't be able to afford her medication or doctors visits without her card.

cloud493

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Basically so you can go to the gp for free and then if you are sent to hospital or need a op you don't have to wait And get a nice room and bed

Seems like a waste of money to me.

sleepyheadh

omahaid wrote: »

Are you saying that if I have a medical card and I can also afford to pay for private medical insurance I should be prevented from doing so?

What I am saying is that the point of the card is to allow those who otherwise would not be able get medical care.

If you have the means to pay for private medical care you should have no reason to seek a medical card. Unless you are trying to cheat the system and get more than you deserve

Fr_Dougal

Turtwig wrote: »

Health insurance requires a 5 year waiting period for pre-existing conditions.

Not all plans, my company health insurance covered existing conditions straight away, no wait period. All depends on the plan, but most company plans give you immediate cover for pre-existing.

Turtwig

cloud493 wrote: »

I'm confused, I don't know why you'd bother having both.

There are far too many reasons to list.

The standards being second opinions, skipping waiting lists and families - one member has a medical card but the family has a health insurance policy, employment contracts, etc.

Kurtosis

If someone who meets the means threshold for a medical card and decides to perhaps save in other areas and budget for private health insurance to ensure they can get quick access to our broken two tier healthcare system, who are we to say they shouldn't do this?

Turtwig

TheZohan wrote: »

Not all plans, my company health insurance covered existing conditions straight away, no wait period. All depends on the plan, but most company plans give you immediate cover for pre-existing.

Yeah, there's also an option for a very expensive loading fee. In general, any pre-existing waiver is far more costly.

MouseTail

cloud493 wrote: »

Seems like a waste of money to me.

You might feel differently if, God Forbid, someone close to you needs a medical procedure. That is when you see the value of private health insurance.

omahaid

penguin88 wrote: »

If someone who meets the means threshold for a medical card and decides to perhaps save in other areas and budget for private health insurance to ensure they can get quick access to our broken two tier healthcare system, who are we to say they shouldn't do this?

Exactly. The cheapest private health insurance policy I could find it €40 a month for an adult. We'll say €10 a week. I know people with medical cards who smoke! They spend more on fags then a private health insurance policy costs!

Plus, if you have a medical card + private health cover then at least you're paying towards your own treatment!!!

sleepyheadh

omahaid wrote: »

Plus, if you have a medical card + private health cover then at least you're paying towards your own treatment!!!

Care to explain how?

kneemos

Might be just a basic plan that covers hospital costs or whatever.Not familiar with it so don't know the various plan.

sparksfly

sleepyheadh wrote: »

So you feel that it's right to use tax payers money even though you can afford medical care? This is exactly why the system is in such a state..did you not hear of all the medical cards being taken off children with downs? Do you think it is fair to deny them the care they need just because you are "greedy" when it comes to your kids!

the person with the medical card and private healthcare is paying for both, through tax, prsi, usc, pension levy and private health premiums. These people tend not to be spongers or greedy but responsible individuals who pay their way.

sleepyheadh

sparksfly wrote: »

the person with the medical card and private healthcare is paying for both, through tax, prsi, usc, pension levy and private health premiums. These people tend not to be spongers or greedy but responsible individuals who pay their way.

How are they paying for both ? Every time the go to the GP what is happening?

kneemos

Given the stories you hear about people waiting years for simple life changing operations it's almost irresponsible not to have private insurance.

omahaid

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Care to explain how?

Really? Ok.

Let's say we have a person who for whatever reason qualifies for a medical card (we'll say a life time disability and their only income is the disability allowance). Also let's say they have taken out a private health insurance policy. Now, they need an operation. They can wait for the public system to carry out the operation and the state pays or they can use their private policy and get it done in a private hospital and in this case the private health insurance pays. You see how having the private health insurance cover in this instance saved the tax payer money?

sleepyheadh

kneemos wrote: »

Given the stories you hear about people waiting years for simple life changing operations it's almost irresponsible not to have private insurance.

Those cases were not urgent in the greatest sense - if you are truly sick you are well looked after in this country

sleepyheadh

omahaid wrote: »

Really? Ok.

Let's say we have a person who for whatever reason qualifies for a medical card (we'll say a life time disability and their only income is the disability allowance). Also let's say they have taken out a private health insurance policy. Now, they need an operation. They can wait for the public system to carry out the operation and the state pays or they can use their private policy and get it done in a private hospital and in this case the private health insurance pays. You see how having the private health insurance cover in this instance saved the tax payer money?

Why does this person not use their private insurance for their gp visits? And I don't mean anyone with a long term disability who is on a discretionary card just to be clear

omahaid

OP, I don't understand what you think should happen? If someone qualifies for a medical card then they qualify. If they choose to spend €10 a week on health insurance then they are perfectly entitled to do that. Do you think they should be prevented from doing so or do you think the medical card shouldn't be given to people who can afford €10 a week for private health insurance?

madfcuker

I don't know why the OP is getting rattled. Everyone has a choice. If you qualify for a medical card, apply for one and if you can afford health insurance pay for it.

sleepyheadh

omahaid wrote: »

OP, I don't understand what you think should happen? If someone qualifies for a medical card then they qualify. If they choose to spend €10 a week on health insurance then they are perfectly entitled to do that. Do you think they should be prevented from doing so or do you think the medical card shouldn't be given to people who can afford €10 a week for private health insurance?

We'll lets just get it straight the basic cover with VHI is €1000 per year not a tenner a week

kneemos

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Those cases were not urgent in the greatest sense - if you are truly sick you are well looked after in this country

If you have a debilitating illness for months and years it becomes urgent.
There was a lady on the radio the other day who was waiting for back surgery for eighteen months or something,she could barely walk and every time a date was set for the operation it got postponed,that to me is certainly urgent.

sleepyheadh

kneemos wrote: »

If you have a debilitating illness for months and years it becomes urgent.
There was a lady on the radio the other day who was waiting for back surgery for eighteen months or something,she could barely walk and every time a date was set for the operation it got postponed,that to me is certainly urgent.

Yes and maybe if those who could afford to pay for treatment; such as visiting their GP, paid for the service there would be more money available to the health service to pay for operation such as that one.

Instead we are forking out for the medical expenses of the greedy who only want to save themselves 50 quid for visiting their GP

omahaid

sleepyheadh wrote: »

We'll lets just get it straight the basic cover with VHI is €1000 per year not a tenner a week

Glo health €9.88 a week, look it up. I never mentioned vhi. I hope you have it straight now

Turtwig

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Why does this person not use their private insurance for their gp visits? And I don't mean anyone with a long term disability who is on a discretionary card just to be clear

At a guess? Because then they wouldn't be able to pay for their private stuff. The medical card affords them the opportunity to seek private healthcare and a result they increases their chances of being able to remain as productive as possible to society.

Which would you rather?
Person A: medical card and private health insurance. notices some bizarre symptoms and goes privately to get a diagnosis as quick as possible. Less intensive follow-up care and treatment necessary. Best chance of keeping some level of productivity to society.

Person B.
No medical card, or private insurance.
Notices the same bizarre symptoms. Waits a year and a half for proper diagnosis through the public system. By then quality of life is severely impacted. Future morbidity is high, and productivity back to society is questionable for a long period. Cost incurred to the state will be much larger.

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

We'll lets just get it straight the basic cover with VHI is €1000 per year not a tenner a week

VHI One Health Starter €547, €10.52 a week.

sleepyheadh

omahaid wrote: »

Glo health €9.88 a week, look it up. I never mentioned vhi. I hope you have it straight now

Cheapest I can get it down to is €13, you'll have to teach me your secrets!

That level of cover only covers percentages of certain things. What will the person do in that situation?

Atlantic Dawn

This is like someone being given a council house and then having another house they own privately that they rent out, crazy crazy country. The PPS numbers should be checked with those with health insurance, anyone with a medical card who also has health insurance should have the medical card removed until such time as the country has a pot to pi$$ in and those who actually require a card are given one.

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

VHI One Health Starter €547, €10.52 a week.

Maximum benefit of €1000 per person per yeAr.. That will disappear pretty fast if you get sick!!!!

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Yes and maybe if those who could afford to pay for treatment; such as visiting their GP, paid for the service there would be more money available to the health service to pay for operation such as that one.

Instead we are forking out for the medical expenses of the greedy who only want to save themselves 50 quid for visiting their GP

So you want the "greedy" person to pay for private health insurance, pay their GP €50, potentially pay tax, PRSI, USC contributing to state coffers for medical card cover, while the GP gets paid the €50 plus the fee for having that person as a medical card patient? Sounds like a handy number for the GP.

The health service has numerous problems with it, medical card patients with private insurance is not one of them.

Turtwig

sleepyheadh wrote: »

That level of cover only covers percentages of certain things. What will the person do in that situation?

That pretty much sums up most health insurance policies. Only the supremely expensive ones come close to covering "everything". Said in quotation marks because it's like unlimited data. Unlimited but still limited.

sleepyheadh

Turtwig wrote: »

At a guess? Because then they wouldn't be able to pay for their private stuff. The medical card affords them the opportunity to seek private healthcare and a result they increases their chances of being able to remain as productive as possible to society.

Which would you rather?
Person A: medical card and private health insurance. notices some bizarre symptoms and goes privately to get a diagnosis as quick as possible. Less intensive follow-up care and treatment necessary. Best chance of keeping some level of productivity to society.

Person B.
No medical card, or private insurance.
Notices the same bizarre symptoms. Waits a year and a half for proper diagnosis through the public system. By then quality of life is severely impacted. Future morbidity is high, and productivity back to society is questionable for a long period. Cost incurred to the state will be much larger.

Two great examples there. What about the real instance where the person notices the symptom goes to the gp with the medical card and is immediately treated based on the severity of the illness!

Or the person with private medical insurance goes to the gp, claims back the cost and is also treated for the illness.

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Maximum benefit of €1000 per person per yeAr.. That will disappear pretty fast if you get sick!!!!

So first VHI don't do private health insurance for 10 euro a week, then the 10 euro a week cover isn't good enough for you. Talk about moving the goalposts...

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

So you want the "greedy" person to pay for private health insurance, pay their GP €50, potentially pay tax, PRSI, USC contributing to state coffers for medical card cover, while the GP gets paid the €50 plus the fee for having that person as a medical card patient? Sounds like a handy number for the GP.

The health service has numerous problems with it, medical card patients with private insurance is not one of them.

No I want them to pay for private insurance if they can afford to do so, or if they are unable to do so and meet the eligibility for the medical card use that.. Not both!

Turtwig

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Two great examples there. What about the real instance where the person notices the symptom goes to the gp with the medical card and is immediately treated based on the severity of the illness!

Or the person with private medical insurance goes to the gp, claims back the cost and is also treated for the illness.

GP's very often can't treat symptoms without further investigations. The length of time those investigations can take can mean everything for the person's quality of health and future contribution to society.

The elephant in the room, that you're clearly ignoring is if a medical patient goes private they free up their waiting list for another person who can't afford to go private. Thus impacting two lives, not just one.

howamidifferent

Anecdotal and so by no means reliable but in my company have heard of senior management getting redundancy payments increased by virtue of the fact they had managed to acquire a medical card after being told they were to be made redundant.