Mothers bringing boys into the ladies toilets

CrazyRabbit

I've a friend who would bring her 10 year old son into the ladies when he needed to go. She was terrified of letting him go into the gents on his own...even when there was either nobody else in there or it had several other men/boys. It wasn't until I pointed out how uncomfortable it was making the boy feel that she stopped. Even now though, she stands at the door and asks him if he is alright after just 30 seconds.

Now, I completely understand mums bringing young boys into the ladies with them if dad is not around, but at what age does it become inappropriate and weird?

PLL

I'm sure I have read signs in some places about children over 9 not being allowed in the opposite sex toilet with a parent. I can understand her worry, I am a worrier, I only have a girl though. I think doing that to a boy at 10 isn't good for him, he needs some independence, especially at that age.

diveout

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I've a friend who would bring her 10 year old son into the ladies when he needed to go. She was terrified of letting him go into the gents on his own...even when there was either nobody else in there or it had several other men/boys. It wasn't until I pointed out how uncomfortable it was making the boy feel that she stopped. Even now though, she stands at the door and asks him if he is alright after just 30 seconds.

Now, I completely understand mums bringing young boys into the ladies with them if dad is not around, but at what age does it become inappropriate and weird?

This is a tricky one because so many people have different views on mised gender toilets to start with. I personally don't have a problem with them. I genuinely don't see what the big deal is about men being in the ladies and ladies being in the mens to start with.

I get her concern but I also get what you are saying. Ten is a transitional age - maybe if she is uncomfortable sending him into the mens on his own and he is embarrassed going into the ladies, he should use the unisex disabled toilets.

Hello Lady!

well unless he's disabled why should he be taught that it's ok to use a facility specifically designated for the disabled?

I think 10 is plenty old enough to go to the gents, but I understand her worry - a possible perv being in there. A friends son had an unpleasant experience in a toilet - some dirty aul perv passed comment on the young lads tackle as he stood at the urinal and made the poor boy feel very uncomfortable. The young lad was pretty freaked out. But he still uses the gents, just always a cubicle now.

dub_skav

I agree that if he feels uncomfortable in the ladies then he should use the gents. However, I would have no problem with the mother going into the gents and standing just inside the door, or over at the sinks or something, certainly less weird than calling in the door.

Edit: I (a man) actually had to bring my baby daughter into the ladies in McDonalds because there was no changing table in the gents, I was not especially happy about it, but needs must.

Sunny Dayz

As a mother of a son near that age, I do let my son use the gents but I stand outside the door waiting for him. I do find myself sussing out any man who walks in or out and start to get worried if I think he has been in there for too long. I also do worry that he may have accidently locked himself in a cubicle! I know I am probably being so paranoid, but I'd rather that than the guilts of finding out something may happen to my son and I was too lax about his safety!

judychong

I also think that 10 years old is old enough for the young boy to go to the loo by himself!
Even at 8-9, he should be alright, especially if he feels more comfortable being in the gents' bathroom!

byhookorbycrook

Whatever age he is , he should NOT use the disabled toilet, unless he has a disability. Many people with disabilities cannot wait for the toilet, they need it urgently when they have to go. Why teach him to completely disregard the needs of others??

Lisha

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Whatever age he is , he should NOT use the disabled toilet, unless he has a disability. Many people with disabilities cannot wait for the toilet, they need it urgently when they have to go. Why teach him to completely disregard the needs of others??

In that case Most disabled toilet should not have nappy changing facilities In them so.
It always bugs me that nappy changing facilities are in disabled toilets for the reasons you outlined above.

Sligo1

Maybe it's for a disabled person who needs to change their kids nappy...
But yes I would otherwise agree with you.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

How did disabled toilets come into this, I am confused....

My 3 year old boy always wants me to bring him in to the men's toilets, I would if they weren't so smelly, so I will keep bringing him to the ladies until I think he has the cop on and confidence to go by himself to gents, I would imagine around 8 or 9 maybe.

diveout

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Whatever age he is , he should NOT use the disabled toilet, unless he has a disability. Many people with disabilities cannot wait for the toilet, they need it urgently when they have to go. Why teach him to completely disregard the needs of others??

If no one else is using it what is the problem? They are not like parking spaces. It;s not a case of only the disabled can use these, just a case of these are equipped for disabled users.

Like abled people, many may need to use it urgently and many may not.

OU812

Hello Lady! wrote: »

well unless he's disabled why should he be taught that it's ok to use a facility specifically designated for the disabled?

I think 10 is plenty old enough to go to the gents, but I understand her worry - a possible perv being in there. A friends son had an unpleasant experience in a toilet - some dirty aul perv passed comment on the young lads tackle as he stood at the urinal and made the poor boy feel very uncomfortable. The young lad was pretty freaked out. But he still uses the gents, just always a cubicle now.

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Whatever age he is , he should NOT use the disabled toilet, unless he has a disability. Many people with disabilities cannot wait for the toilet, they need it urgently when they have to go. Why teach him to completely disregard the needs of others??

The disabled toilets count toward the total toilet facilities of the premises & are unisex. They're available to all, but have disabled assistance equipment. They are not "Disabled Only" they are "Disabled Equipped". It's a common misconception that they're for the exclusive use.

Depending on the function of the premises, it'll be designated in their planning permission that they must have X number of cubicles & if for example it's 10 female & four male, they'll most probably have 9/3/1 (one disabled)

implausible

There's a lot of media-hyped paranoia amongst parents about paedophiles and 'pervs.' The chances of anything happening to the young fella more serious than locking himself in a cubicle are small, especially if mum is waiting nearby.

Raising kids is all about judging risk, giving kids their independence and ultimately, letting them go. What will she be like when he wants to get a car, go out with his friends or take a flight?

whupdedo

implausible wrote: »

There's a lot of media-hyped paranoia amongst parents about paedophiles and 'pervs.' The chances of anything happening to the young fella more serious locking himself in a cubicle are small, especially if mum is waiting nearby.

Raising kids is all about judging risk, giving kids their independence and ultimately, letting them go. What will she be like when he wants to get a car, go out with his friends or take a flight?

Yes but that doesn't sit well with all the morons who think theirs a paedophile around every corner and over protective mothers who see every man as a potential child rapist, are they expecting men to be walking around with erections waiting for the opportunity to pounce on little Johnny while he uses the urinal in dunnes for the first time, these people need to get a grip

twowheelsonly

Lisha wrote: »

In that case Most disabled toilet should not have nappy changing facilities In them so.
It always bugs me that nappy changing facilities are in disabled toilets for the reasons you outlined above.

Many disabled people use nappies as well and these changing facilities are generally designed to take the weight of an adult.

diveout wrote: »

If no one else is using it what is the problem? They are not like parking spaces. It;s not a case of only the disabled can use these, just a case of these are equipped for disabled users.

Like abled people, many may need to use it urgently and many may not.

That's fair enough in a pub/hotel setting or whatever but where there are possibly quite a few disabled people present such as at gigs or events then it's just being selfish.
This arises quite a bit at the RDS (Simmonscourt) where the disabled toilets are just inside the doors and the general toilets are just a litttle further away down a corridor. It's about 20 yards away but you'd swear it was the other side of town the way some people insist on being allowed to use the disabled ones.

Back on topic... 10 year olds are more than capable and should be allowed to use the toilets on their own without Mammy being paranoid or overprotective. As mentioned earlier it's a judgement call but 99.999999% of the time it will be perfectly safe.
What does the child do in school or at sports training etc?? If the child is comfortable with their body they'll instinctively know when something is wrong. Better that than thinking that everything is 'wrong' and instilling that paranoia in the child.

Pawwed Rig

It is ridiculous bringing your son up to believe all men are predators. There are not perverts everywhere as the OP seems to think and to the poster who eyes up any man that goes into the loo well that is just insulting and sexist in the extreme. It is no wonder that boys are having such an identity crisis where they are taught from an early age that they are not to be trusted.
This is why the numbers of male primary and preschool teachers has collapsed.

CrazyRabbit

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It is ridiculous bringing your son up to believe all men are predators. There are not perverts everywhere as the OP seems to think and to the poster who eyes up any man that goes into the loo well that is just insulting and sexist in the extreme. It is no wonder that boys are having such an identity crisis where they are taught from an early age that they are not to be trusted.
This is why the numbers of male primary and preschool teachers has collapsed.

To clarify....The OP (me) doesn't think that there are 'perverts everywhere'. My friend does. She's the one who is terrified of letting her 10 year old out of her sight for 30 seconds.

diveout

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

To clarify....The OP (me) doesn't think that there are 'perverts everywhere'. My friend does. She's the one who is terrified of letting her 10 year old out of her sight for 30 seconds.

You don't know if something happened to her or her boy already. It could be hyper vigilance.

Dravokivich

Regarding the question posed in the OP, i'd say upto 4. I'd find it wierd if my son while in the company of a woman had to go to the women's toilet, when he's going to be capable of taking care of himself by that age. I'd only expect someone to wait by the corridor outside so he doesn't get lost, trying to get back to wherever everyone else was.

Hello Lady! wrote: »

well unless he's disabled why should he be taught that it's ok to use a facility specifically designated for the disabled?

I think 10 is plenty old enough to go to the gents, but I understand her worry - a possible perv being in there. A friends son had an unpleasant experience in a toilet - some dirty aul perv passed comment on the young lads tackle as he stood at the urinal and made the poor boy feel very uncomfortable. The young lad was pretty freaked out. But he still uses the gents, just always a cubicle now.

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

As a mother of a son near that age, I do let my son use the gents but I stand outside the door waiting for him. I do find myself sussing out any man who walks in or out and start to get worried if I think he has been in there for too long. I also do worry that he may have accidently locked himself in a cubicle! I know I am probably being so paranoid, but I'd rather that than the guilts of finding out something may happen to my son and I was too lax about his safety!

Wow, thanks ladies.

dub_skav wrote: »

I agree that if he feels uncomfortable in the ladies then he should use the gents. However, I would have no problem with the mother going into the gents and standing just inside the door, or over at the sinks or something, certainly less weird than calling in the door.

I've seen very few toilets where the sinks aren't in close proximity to the urinals.

dub_skav wrote: »

Edit: I (a man) actually had to bring my baby daughter into the ladies in McDonalds because there was no changing table in the gents, I was not especially happy about it, but needs must.

That can be a bit tedious alright, but the issue with places like McDonalds is they are designed to get as many people eating in and then leaving. Facilities are always provided on a bare minimum.

Ms. Pingui

Dravokivich wrote: »

Regarding the question posed in the OP, i'd say upto 4. I'd find it wierd if my son while in the company of a woman had to go to the women's toilet, when he's going to be capable of taking care of himself by that age. I'd only expect someone to wait by the corridor outside so he doesn't get lost, trying to get back to wherever everyone else was.






Wow, thanks ladies.




I've seen very few toilets where the sinks aren't in close proximity to the urinals.



That can be a bit tedious alright, but the issue with places like McDonalds is they are designed to get as many people eating in and then leaving. Facilities are always provided on a bare minimum.

4 is too young to leave them in alone imo. Some kids might still need help with the bathroom at that age.
The rest I agree with.

I don't think bringing boys into a ladies toilet is huge issue, bringing them into a ladies changing room at the swimming pool or something when they are way too old is more of a problem.

_Brian

OU812 wrote: »

The disabled toilets count toward the total toilet facilities of the premises & are unisex. They're available to all, but have disabled assistance equipment. They are not "Disabled Only" they are "Disabled Equipped". It's a common misconception that they're for the exclusive use.

Depending on the function of the premises, it'll be designated in their planning permission that they must have X number of cubicles & if for example it's 10 female & four male, they'll most probably have 9/3/1 (one disabled)

When I'm out and about with my six year old daughter I'll pop onto the disabled toilets. As you say, their not exclusively for disabled use.

Pawwed Rig

_Brian wrote: »

When I'm out and about with my six year old daughter I'll pop onto the disabled toilets. As you say, their not exclusively for disabled use.

Why though? Why not just let her go into the ladies. She is well capable at 6 to sort herself out.

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

To clarify....The OP (me) doesn't think that there are 'perverts everywhere'. My friend does. She's the one who is terrified of letting her 10 year old out of her sight for 30 seconds.

Granted you did say your 'friend' but you also added

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Now, I completely understand mums bringing young boys into the ladies with them if dad is not around, but at what age does it become inappropriate and weird?

which shows you agree with her to at least some extent and has set the tone for some of the subsequent disgusting comments.

Sligo1

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Why though? Why not just let her go into the ladies. She is well capable at 6 to sort herself out.


Granted you did say your 'friend' but you also added


which shows you agree with her to at least some extent and has set the tone for some of the subsequent disgusting comments.

Of course it's ok to agree to some extent! If the boy was 3 for example I would defo take him into the ladies as opposed to me bringing him into the men's. it obviously depends how old the child is... I think that's what OP was trying to ask opinions on...

Barely There

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

As a mother of a son near that age, I do let my son use the gents but I stand outside the door waiting for him. I do find myself sussing out any man who walks in or out

Good idea - after all most of us men are perverts.

Wonder how long a man would be allowed to stand outside the ladies toilets 'sussing out any woman walking in or out' before he was asked to leave by security?

byhookorbycrook

_Brian wrote: »

When I'm out and about with my six year old daughter I'll pop onto the disabled toilets. As you say, their not exclusively for disabled use.

So the likes of me outside the door can have a bathroom accident while you are in there?Gee thanks, it's hard enough for people with disabilities to get out,without having to worry that they will not get to a bathroom in time. Just about sums up the attitude of too many in this country "I'm doing what's easiest for me and feck anyone else."

CrazyRabbit

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Why though? Why not just let her go into the ladies. She is well capable at 6 to sort herself out.


Granted you did say your 'friend' but you also added


which shows you agree with her to at least some extent and has set the tone for some of the subsequent disgusting comments.

I meant that I wouldn't expect 2-4 year olds to be able to use the facilities on their own. At that age, they probably wouldn't be able to lock a cubicle door...or get it open again.

And why did you put 'friend' in quotes? What are you implying?

eviltwin

Honestly the things people worry about, boys in toilets don't bother me, why would it? It's not like we pee in the open, god forbid a boy sees a lady washing her hands.

implausible

eviltwin wrote: »

Honestly the things people worry about, boys in toilets don't bother me, why would it? It's not like we pee in the open, god forbid a boy sees a lady washing her hands.

I think the issue is more about parents being unwilling to let a boy go to the male toilet by himself than women feeling uncomfortable having a boy in the female ones.

whupdedo

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So the likes of me outside the door can have a bathroom accident while you are in there?Gee thanks, it's hard enough for people with disabilities to get out,without having to worry that they will not get to a bathroom in time. Just about sums up the attitude of too many in this country "I'm doing what's easiest for me and feck anyone else."

And what happens if someone with a disability is inside in the toilet before you, who do you blame then, do you write to management to complain about the lack of facilities,

It's a disabled equipped toilet, not a toilet specifically for the for the disabled

FactCheck

The potential concerns with a public toilet aren't limited to random sex attacks - for example, some public toilets might have issues with junkies shooting up inside.

Does everything have to get made into a gender thing? A previous poster has already said that fathers worry about sending their small daughters in alone too.

Lisha

FactCheck wrote: »

The potential concerns with a public toilet aren't limited to random sex attacks - for example, some public toilets might have issues with junkies shooting up inside.

Does everything have to get made into a gender thing? A previous poster has already said that fathers worry about sending their small daughters in alone too.

IMHO this applies to both parents when they are with the opposite gender child.

I know one guy with 3 daughters, he takes them swimming often. It bugs him that there is no family room available.

Likewise one woman I know with sons would prefer a family room when swimming do she could ensure her boys are fully dry before they dress.

IMHO these facilities need a family type option where either gender parents can be with their children.
Putting the nappy changing facilities in the disabled use toilets is unfair IMHO if it possibly prevents a disabled person from using it when they need to.

twowheelsonly

whupdedo wrote: »

And what happens if someone with a disability is inside in the toilet before you, who do you blame then, do you write to management to complain about the lack of facilities,

It's a disabled equipped toilet, not a toilet specifically for the for the disabled

If there's another disabled person using the toilets then that's just bad luck and it does happen occasionally I'm sure.

Chances are that if there's a disabled toilet then there's regular toilets in close proximity so why don't you just use them ?
Is it laziness, selfishness, or some form of self importance on your behalf ?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

+1! And it really p*sses me off that a lot of the time the baby changing facilities are in the ladies toilets. :mad:

Lisha wrote: »

In that case Most disabled toilet should not have nappy changing facilities In them so.
It always bugs me that nappy changing facilities are in disabled toilets for the reasons you outlined above.

evolving_doors

whupdedo wrote: »

And what happens if someone with a disability is inside in the toilet before you, who do you blame then, do you write to management to complain about the lack of facilities,

It's a disabled equipped toilet, not a toilet specifically for the for the disabled

Ah here, if that was the logic, you could also say it's a disability equipped parking space, not a parking space specifically for the disabled. The implication of the signs is that you leave it free for the person designated on the sign. Its not as if the sign is saying "we recommend the occupant should ideally be disabled/man/woman whatever". You go where you are supposed to go .. except in the case with kids as genders can be mixed (dad with daughter etc).
I dunno, once I see an adult with a kid and acting normally (as long as they are not looking like teenagers!) then it doesnt nother me what the hell they do.
Its similar to a woman breastfeeding a five year old! a bit out of the 'norm' but hey, still nothing to do with me.

folbotcar

I once saw a Father bring his young daughter into the gents. That is far more problematic than the other way round. But sometimes you have no choice. Either that or use the disabled toilet.

As for the original question. The Mother is ridiculously over protective. She is doing him no favours either. He should be well able go by himself now. My five year old tries to send me away when he needs to go. But obviously he's a bit too independent and it's just too soon
.
Some people need a dose of common sense.

On the other hand doesn't this perfectly illustrate our ridiculous prudishness on the whole topic? Other countries have a far more relaxed attitude to what after all natural function.

Barely There

folbotcar wrote: »

I once saw a Father bring his young daughter into the gents.

My God - really?

evolving_doors

folbotcar wrote: »

I once saw a Father bring his young daughter into the gents. That is far more problematic than the other way round. But sometimes you have no choice. Either that or use the disabled toilet.

Why?

I mean everything takes place in cubicles in the ladies anyway. i was that very father recently. Daughter used to going with mammy so when I took her she insisted on going to the ladies (as she is a lady!!!). Went to the cubicle, came out, washed hands.. apologies to anyone I discomforted for being male..

Anyway, Why the insinuation that because I'm a man I'm automatically a perv (not to mention I'm actually too busy with my kid to be peeping under cubicles!)... Of course nobody would bat an eyelid if a woman brought her son into the mens!

The last point ...On the other hand doesn't this perfectly illustrate our ridiculous prudishness on the whole topic? Other countries have a far more relaxed attitude to what after all natural function....contradicts your point above.

folbotcar wrote: »

As for the original question. The Mother is ridiculously over protective. She is doing him no favours either. He should be well able go by himself now. My five year old tries to send me away when he needs to go. But obviously he's a bit too independent and it's just too soon
.
Some people need a dose of common sense.

And here-in lies the problem... we are making judgements on other peoples families and their habits. Let's face it, all families do things differently and we could nit-pick on anyones rearing habits till the cows come home.. but be in no doubt, our own are just as nit-pickable.

evolving_doors

Barely There wrote: »

My God - really?

NEWS HEADLINES: Father Brings Girl to Girl's Toilet.

Sligo1

My dad used to bring me into the men's... Don't see the problem tbh...

Maximus Alexander

We're talking about rooms filled with bowls that you put your excrement in. I've never understood why the flavour of genetalia your're packing matters for this. I think a mother escorting a ten year old to the toilet is pretty odd though.

Zulu

This thread saddens me.

riffmongous

FactCheck wrote: »

The potential concerns with a public toilet aren't limited to random sex attacks - for example, some public toilets might have issues with junkies shooting up inside.

Does everything have to get made into a gender thing? A previous poster has already said that fathers worry about sending their small daughters in alone too.

+1 to this. It should be pointed out and kept in mind that not all public toilets are equal, there is a huge difference between an attended public toilet in a nice shopping center like Jervis or Cleerys compared to the toilets in Bus Aras or Easons on O'Connell Street.

farmchoice

riffmongous wrote: »

+1 to this. It should be pointed out and kept in mind that not all public toilets are equal, there is a huge difference between an attended public toilet in a nice shopping center like Jervis or Cleerys compared to the toilets in Bus Aras or Easons on O'Connell Street.

Ah here, i wouldn't let my mother go into the toilets in bus Aras on her own let alone my child. I don't like going into them myself and i'm 38 years old man and 6 foot 2.

eviltwin

The only issue I would have with my son who is 4 is that he might lock himself in and not be able to get back out again. My daughter did that once when she was younger and I wouldn't want to go through that again. For that reason I take him into the women's loo with me but when he is old enough to lock and unlock the doors himself he can go on his own. The thought of a man abusing him would never even enter my head, I know it happens but you can't live your life in fear either and that is not something I want to pass onto my kids.

riffmongous

farmchoice wrote: »

Ah here, i wouldn't let my mother go into the toilets in bus Aras on her own let alone my child. I don't like going into them myself and i'm 38 years old man and 6 foot 2.

Exactly and there are plenty more places like that too. In fairness to Easons I dont think it's so bad anymore, but years ago I saw cubicles covered in blood on a few occasions.

Das Kitty

Until my youngfella can reach the taps to wash his hands by himself, I'll be bringing him to the ladies'. And putting my poor back out.

If I had a daughter, I'd expect my husband would bring her to the gents' for the same reason.

evolving_doors

Das Kitty wrote: »

Until my youngfella can reach the taps to wash his hands by himself, I'll be bringing him to the ladies'. And putting my poor back out.

If I had a daughter, I'd expect my husband would bring her to the gents' for the same reason.

Couldn't he equally bring her to the Ladies if she asked...after all she is a girl?

I think it's arbitrary if you go where the child wants to go, or, you go where you usually go.

Das Kitty

Armelodie wrote: »

Couldn't he equally bring her to the Ladies if she asked...after all she is a girl?

I think it's arbitrary if you go where the child wants to go, or, you go where you usually go.

He's more comfortable going to the gents himself. In my experience a four year old doesn't give a fig which one.

Chattastrophe!

Armelodie wrote: »

Couldn't he equally bring her to the Ladies if she asked...after all she is a girl?

Well, no!

I'd feel odd if there was a lad in the ladies toilets. Girls are generally quite relaxed and comfortable in ladies toilets, putting on deodorant and makeup etc in the open areas .. OK around other ladies and kids of either sex ... but a guy standing there, it would just be weird!

Equally I imagine men wouldn't mind kids of either sex running around, but wouldn't be that comfortable with a woman standing there while they're peeing!

Maximus Alexander

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Well, no!

I'd feel odd if there was a lad in the ladies toilets. Girls are generally quite relaxed and comfortable in ladies toilets, putting on deodorant and makeup etc in the open areas .. OK around other ladies and kids of either sex ... but a guy standing there, it would just be weird!

Equally I imagine men wouldn't mind kids of either sex running around, but wouldn't be that comfortable with a woman standing there while they're peeing!

Couldn't care less if there were men or women around. If anything having kids running around the place would be more likely to make me feel uncomfortable when I'm stood there with my lad in my hand. :eek: