Compulsion to convert

JuliusCaesar

This evangelical born-again Christian is awarded €70,000 for being fired after preaching to all and sundry at work, despite repeated disciplinary proceedings.

My religion require me to blaspheme at all opportunities, and I can't get arrested even though the 2009 law prohibits it.

My religion also tells me I should convert people to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but I'm way too lazy. I never realised that my colleagues were ripe for conversion. I think I'll take this up as a money-spinner they are sinners.

Nemeses

Can I join?


How much does it cost?


Can I have a Tin Foil hat along with it?

greedygoblin

Hail Caesar!

JuliusCaesar

Thank you, followers. My religion costs only a third of your income to join. Please submit all Revenue documents for inspection by PM.



(I'm not splitting the 70K though)

Kelly06

Christ on a bike !!! 70,000 yo yo's for that!. The Country has gone mad, mad I tells ye :eek:

Tasden

I actually hear more about the oh so original "flying spaghetti monster" from atheists than I do about god/allah/whatever other gods exist from the people who believe in them.

Imo the people who constantly gossip/bitch about people/discuss their facebook activity at work are a lot more deserving of the sack than someone who feels its their duty to spread the word of their god.

Not that he deserved the money or anything.

Manach

First the irony of ironies JC giving out about religion when his was deified.

Second, the irony of ironies about the PC Brigade(TM pending) complaining about the equality authority. Whose aim is to protect and expand on the sacred tenants of diversity and inclusion based on the 9 areas which the core statutory act defines as discrimination. This includes religion. However given the shifting and morphing nature of what constitutes rights (beyond it being something that the Government must ensure you have to have regardless of how impacts anyone else) the PC-ists are being confronted with the spectre of what had been been a fairly harmonious workplace environment in this country now in thrall to the PC-ists of every type and fear of giving offence and failing to follow the whatever is the current trending right is grounds for calling in their enforcers in the equality authority.
So, the OP is a prophet in one sense where thanks to the progressives the business profits will be a thing of the past, dealing with all such claims.

House of Blaze

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

This evangelical born-again Christian is awarded €70,000 for being fired after preaching to all and sundry at work, despite repeated disciplinary proceedings.

My religion require me to blaspheme at all opportunities, and I can't get arrested even though the 2009 law prohibits it.

My religion also tells me I should convert people to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but I'm way too lazy. I never realised that my colleagues were ripe for conversion. I think I'll take this up as a money-spinner they are sinners.

Praise be His Noodly Appendage!

darkpagandeath

What about the Death God cthulhu ?

greedygoblin

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Thank you, followers. My religion costs only a third of your income to join. Please submit all Revenue documents for inspection by PM.



(I'm not splitting the 70K though)

I think I shall also set up my own religion. The income from that should cover the costs of joining yours. We could get quite a prosperous pyramid scheme going here.

Friend Computer

Manach wrote: »

First the irony of ironies JC giving out about religion when his was deified.

Second, the irony of ironies about the PC Brigade(TM pending) complaining about the equality authority. Whose aim is to protect and expand on the sacred tenants of diversity and inclusion based on the 9 areas which the core statutory act defines as discrimination. This includes religion. However given the shifting and morphing nature of what constitutes rights (beyond it being something that the Government must ensure you have to have regardless of how impacts anyone else) the PC-ists are being confronted with the spectre of what had been been a fairly harmonious workplace environment in this country now in thrall to the PC-ists of every type and fear of giving offence and failing to follow the whatever is the current trending right is grounds for calling in their enforcers in the equality authority.
So, the OP is a prophet in one sense where thanks to the progressives the business profits will be a thing of the past, dealing with all such claims.

I'd say your keyboard will need some cleaning after that post.

longhalloween

70k is a massive payout, but it's only a year and a half salary. In fairness, he won't have much luck getting a similarly paid job after this or any job really.

c_man

I'd say that guy was a blast to work with alright...

johnnybmac

Does that mean if I was Muslim, and decided to stone my adulterous colleagues to death, I could be awarded a significant sum (under European law) if my employer decided to sack me for it?

efb

Easy money for barristers

tritium

longhalloween wrote: »

70k is a massive payout, but it's only a year and a half salary. In fairness, he won't have much luck getting a similarly paid job after this or any job really.

Doesn't mean he should be compensated for throwing away the job he had though. Genuinely hope they appeal and win as frankly its a bonkers ruling

Amirani

Tasden wrote: »

I actually hear more about the oh so original "flying spaghetti monster" from atheists than I do about god/allah/whatever other gods exist from the people who believe in them..

That's because the majority of society recognises the validity of the belief in one but not the other.

Why would people have to campaign for belief in God or Allah to be recognised as a cultural norm, it already is? We demand equality, because we don't have it. We demand that the one true deity - the flying spaghetti monster is recognised by society and the courts. Religious equality for all or religious equality for none!

catallus

The indignant blasphemy of the nescient unfaithful could be considered a religion in itself, given the superficial succour it provides them; but it must be obvious even to those benighted slaves-to-echoes that it is the religion of despair.

carlmango11

This absolutely infuriates me.

So basically you're allowed to do something as long as you tell people it's your belief.

You can agitate people and push superstitious stories down their throat all day long in a workplace and no one can ask you to stop. Because you personally believe that you shouldn't have to stop.

Absolutely crazy.

tritium

catallus wrote: »

The indignant blasphemy of the nescient unfaithful could be considered a religion in itself, given the superficial succour it provides them; but it must be obvious even to those benighted slaves-to-echoes that it is the religion of despair.

Say what now?

catallus

You heard me! :mad:

JuliusCaesar

Sacraficial offerings of small and large farm animals coming to a canteen near you!









(My gods demand it.)

For Forks Sake

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Sacraficial offerings of small and large farm animals coming to a canteen near you!









(My gods demand it.)

I suspect someone in my workplace canteen is already at that judging by the state of the fare on offer.

oppenheimer1

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

This evangelical born-again Christian is awarded €70,000 for being fired after preaching to all and sundry at work, despite repeated disciplinary proceedings.

My religion require me to blaspheme at all opportunities, and I can't get arrested even though the 2009 law prohibits it.

My religion also tells me I should convert people to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but I'm way too lazy. I never realised that my colleagues were ripe for conversion. I think I'll take this up as a money-spinner they are sinners.

I'm actually amazed by this. Someone actually managed to get fired from the public service.

Amirani

catallus wrote: »

The indignant blasphemy of the nescient unfaithful could be considered a religion in itself, given the superficial succour it provides them; but it must be obvious even to those benighted slaves-to-echoes that it is the religion of despair.

I disagree. Why would any sort of acknowledgement that your entire existence may indeed be pointless give you comfort, it generally gives the opposite? I've certainly never been comforted by my atheism to any great degree.

I don't think you needed to preface your description of atheists with the word nescient either, since it applies to every human who has ever lived and likely every that will ever live, and probably exists to a greater degree among their "faithful" brethren.

Spoonman75

Most people go to work and then go home with minimum fuss. No drama or emotional theatrics. But this guy continually talked about a subject that clearly made them uncomfortable. He was given a warning not to annoy people but didn't do it.

His argument was it's his faith. Believe what you want. Fine.

But a lot of people now don't believe in bronze age mythology and look to other things like Science for truth.

The thing that annoys me about all this is not that he got 70 K for losing his job but because the law deemed it unfair. If someone started evangelizing to me at work I'd be pretty short with him. "Sorry bud, I'm here to do a job and go home. If you want to talk about fairytales take it up with somebody else"

But if he continued to try and change my mind over a period of occasions and I repeatedly asked him to stop, and he didn't that's not OK. A textbook case of harassment at work.

There's not enough info in the IT article to give me an honest opinion but the court ruled that he wasn't making people uncomfortable or harassing them.

catallus

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I disagree. I've certainly never been comforted by my atheism to any great degree.

I don't think you needed to preface your description of atheists with the word nescient either, since it applies to every human who has ever lived and likely every that will ever live, and probably exists to a greater degree among their "faithful" brethren.

The heart can't shield the mind when all the blood floweth back upon itself.

Wilful nescience is worse than natural.

Amirani

catallus wrote: »

Wilful nescience is worse than natural.

You imply that there's a choice - there's not. The only 2 types of ignorance existing here are acknowledged and unacknowledged.

catallus

Diego Simeone wrote: »

You imply that there's a choice - there's not. The only 2 types of ignorance existing here are acknowledged and unacknowledged.

There is always a choice; either accept humility in the face of the mystery of existence, or let vanity prevail.

Which can one choose, and remain human?

gctest50

catallus wrote: »

There is always a choice; either accept humility in the face of the mystery of existence, or let vanity prevail.

That's a bit daft

Should someone bow down in front of their new ipad because its workings are a mystery to them ?


Even if it was proven to be real why would you look up to " a sexist, racist, murderous c*** " who seem " undiverted by the starving masses "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74SQ6w6LdU0

moc moc a moc

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I'm actually amazed by this. Someone actually managed to get fired from the public service.

That's the real news story here.

jill_valentine

So this guy could follow me around telling me how terrible and grotesque and hellbound I was all day long and I'd be obliged to let him. Brilliant.

Overheal

Did anyone read the article without bias?

It does mention the incidences that happened were 'in a coffee shop' 'someone on a motorbike' etc. and he was even told not to do this during his lunch hours?

So, 'business hours' was interpreted by the employer as 9-5 I guess, even if he wasn't working in an official capacity?

I mean I worked at Best Buy for a while, and we did have workers who would leave leaflets in the break room, which didn't really cause much stir, and it was not assaulting anybody on the breakroom table or pinned on our message board. I do only know of one employee who was good at their job but were dismissed because of multiple complaints, talking to employees on the floor to pray for troops overseas, in addition to responding to work related questions "eg. great sale, how did you manage that?" with responses like "because Jesus loves me".

Stuff like this though:

In June 2009, Mr McAteer was suspended without pay for two months and was ordered to see a professional to help him with his compulsive behaviour after he was spotted talking to a man outside a coffee shop about religion.

Seems like perfectly fair grounds to fight for unfair dismissal.

Just saying.

suicide_circus

Manach wrote: »

First the irony of ironies JC giving out about religion when his was deified.

Second, the irony of ironies about the PC Brigade(TM pending) complaining about the equality authority. Whose aim is to protect and expand on the sacred tenants of diversity and inclusion based on the 9 areas which the core statutory act defines as discrimination. This includes religion. However given the shifting and morphing nature of what constitutes rights (beyond it being something that the Government must ensure you have to have regardless of how impacts anyone else) the PC-ists are being confronted with the spectre of what had been been a fairly harmonious workplace environment in this country now in thrall to the PC-ists of every type and fear of giving offence and failing to follow the whatever is the current trending right is grounds for calling in their enforcers in the equality authority.
So, the OP is a prophet in one sense where thanks to the progressives the business profits will be a thing of the past, dealing with all such claims.

PopePalpatine

catallus wrote: »

The indignant blasphemy of the nescient unfaithful could be considered a religion in itself, given the superficial succour it provides them; but it must be obvious even to those benighted slaves-to-echoes that it is the religion of despair.

Back into your box under your bridge, Brian McKevitt.

BeerWolf

Hate preachers, **** the lot of em.

tritium

catallus wrote: »

You heard me! :mad:

Just heard a lot of blahblahblah I'm afraid.....:)

Pherekydes

catallus wrote: »

The indignant blasphemy of the nescient unfaithful could be considered a religion in itself, given the superficial succour it provides them; but it must be obvious even to those benighted slaves-to-echoes that it is the religion of despair.

Are you in competition with manach?

tritium

catallus wrote: »

There is always a choice; either accept humility in the face of the mystery of existence, or let vanity prevail.

Which can one choose, and remain human?

I'll choose vanity so thanks, over your fairytale. I'll also choose reason and logic over your absurd hocus pocus and trust in the power of knowledge and inquisitiveness over dogma.

My humanity remains just fine BTW, thanks for asking.

tritium

Spoonman75 wrote: »

There's not enough info in the IT article to give me an honest opinion but the court ruled that he wasn't making people uncomfortable or harassing them.

It was an equality tribunal rather than a court, so somewhat less formal I guess. Hopefully a court will kick this right to the kerb.

pablomakaveli

Overheal wrote: »

Did anyone read the article without bias?

It does mention the incidences that happened were 'in a coffee shop' 'someone on a motorbike' etc. and he was even told not to do this during his lunch hours?

So, 'business hours' was interpreted by the employer as 9-5 I guess, even if he wasn't working in an official capacity?

I mean I worked at Best Buy for a while, and we did have workers who would leave leaflets in the break room, which didn't really cause much stir, and it was not assaulting anybody on the breakroom table or pinned on our message board. I do only know of one employee who was good at their job but were dismissed because of multiple complaints, talking to employees on the floor to pray for troops overseas, in addition to responding to work related questions "eg. great sale, how did you manage that?" with responses like "because Jesus loves me".

Stuff like this though:

Seems like perfectly fair grounds to fight for unfair dismissal.

Just saying.

Maybe that incident with the coffee was during working hours. I get the impression from the article his employers main issue was him doing it during the working day.

In any case it seems like a form of harassment to keep talking to co-workers about religion when they have already complained about it. He can argue about his religious rights but his co-workers have a right to work without someone harassing them about religion.

I think the company were right to sack him especially when there was a long history of this behaviour.

Links234

Manach wrote: »

First the irony of ironies JC giving out about religion when his was deified.

Second, the irony of ironies about the PC Brigade(TM pending) complaining about the equality authority. Whose aim is to protect and expand on the sacred tenants of diversity and inclusion based on the 9 areas which the core statutory act defines as discrimination. This includes religion. However given the shifting and morphing nature of what constitutes rights (beyond it being something that the Government must ensure you have to have regardless of how impacts anyone else) the PC-ists are being confronted with the spectre of what had been been a fairly harmonious workplace environment in this country now in thrall to the PC-ists of every type and fear of giving offence and failing to follow the whatever is the current trending right is grounds for calling in their enforcers in the equality authority.
So, the OP is a prophet in one sense where thanks to the progressives the business profits will be a thing of the past, dealing with all such claims.

I have to ask, (even though I'm not expecting a response, I'm guessing this is just another Manach fly-by post) if it were a gay person doing similarly, would you have any such objection?

Imagine you're an employer, I'm working for you, and during work hours I'm try to get co-workers, members of the public, etc to sign a petition for same sex marriage, or trying to get them to march in a pride parade, or worse! Tried to 'convert' people? *Gasp* Asking people have they tried sex with another man or woman, and all on your time?

In fact, lets not strictly compare situations with LGBT people, what if it was someone shoving their politics on co-workers and customers? Should someone be allowed to canvas for Sinn Fein on company time? What if it was someone from another faith proselytizing? Or what if I, an avid metal fan, started promoting concerts to the customers? Hi, have you heard the Bad News?

RDM_83 again

Links234 wrote: »

Imagine you're an employer, I'm working for you, and during work hours I'm try to get co-workers, members of the public, etc to sign a petition for same sex marriage, or trying to get them to march in a pride parade, or worse! Tried to 'convert' people? *Gasp* Asking people have they tried sex with another man or woman, and all on your time?

In fact, lets not strictly compare situations with LGBT people, what if it was someone shoving their politics on co-workers and customers? Should someone be allowed to canvas for Sinn Fein on company time? What if it was someone from another faith proselytizing? Or what if I, an avid metal fan, started promoting concerts to the customers? Hi, have you heard the Bad News?

I'm not in favour of this judgement BUT unlike on AH (which protects basically everything else apart from religion specifically ) religion is covered by the legislation.
What this case does is show that the equality authority isn't necessarily always correct or sensible to those who would normally cheerlead it and consider it and similar bodies judgement on cases gospel (see gay cake for examples :-\ )

EDIT:by this I am not necessarily saying the NI authority made the wrong call rather the attitude that because they reached that verdict its automatically the 'right one'

suicide_circus

I love that "gay cake" is now a term which needs no further explanation :pac:

eviltwin

Links234 wrote: »

I have to ask, (even though I'm not expecting a response, I'm guessing this is just another Manach fly-by post) if it were a gay person doing similarly, would you have any such objection?

Imagine you're an employer, I'm working for you, and during work hours I'm try to get co-workers, members of the public, etc to sign a petition for same sex marriage, or trying to get them to march in a pride parade, or worse! Tried to 'convert' people? *Gasp* Asking people have they tried sex with another man or woman, and all on your time?

In fact, lets not strictly compare situations with LGBT people, what if it was someone shoving their politics on co-workers and customers? Should someone be allowed to canvas for Sinn Fein on company time? What if it was someone from another faith proselytizing? Or what if I, an avid metal fan, started promoting concerts to the customers? Hi, have you heard the Bad News?

Ah now that would be someone pushing the gay "agenda" and you can't have that kind of thing in front of decent God fearing folk.

The whole thing is a complete joke, there is no way anyone should be subjected to anyone preaching at them no matter what the subject matter is. He deserved to be sacked and it sickens me public money is going towards this pay out for this muppet.

gramar

Is there anyone who gets fired who doesn't sue for unfair dismissal anymore?

Vojera

Is the message here that if one of my co-workers keeps trying to engage me in conversation about God and telling me that his life has been changed and I tell him that I'm not interested in hearing about it, but he continues so I ask my manager to have a word on my behalf, my manager is actually in the wrong because my co-worker is of a missionary faith?

It seems overly simplistic, but I'm interested in how much proselytism is too much and how much is allowed. When it interferes with work? Or is there a limit?

catallus

The Equality Authority is just trying to help people by making sure they continue to hear the good news.

There maybe mental health issues in this it sounds like compulsive behaviour that took the form of religion,.. that an interesting point do we have the right to be protected from the consequences of other peoples mental health problems by our employers.

ScumLord

So not only are we expected to tolerate Christian mumbo jumbo and accept it could possibly be true. Now people have to listen to their dogma at work whether they like it or not?

Overheal wrote: »

Did anyone read the article without bias?

It does mention the incidences that happened were 'in a coffee shop' 'someone on a motorbike' etc. and he was even told not to do this during his lunch hours?

So, 'business hours' was interpreted by the employer as 9-5 I guess, even if he wasn't working in an official capacity?

In August 2008, he left the office to check on the construction of a footpath. While doing so he met a man with a motorbike to whom he spoke about religion.

That says he was supposed to be doing work outside of the office, he used it as an opportunity to get paid by the state to spread his propaganda.


I thought it was a bit harsh to say he couldn't talk about his religion during lunch hours but how many weeks was he repeating the same dogma over and over again to people that didn't want to hear it anymore. That's a form of harassment. It doesn't say that the management was following him around either so it's a possibility the general public were coming in complaining about the guy stopping them on the street preaching while he should have been at work.

When he's at work he should be working and respecting other peoples right not to be indoctrinated, and not using his state job to seek out more cash cows for his religion to take advantage of.

catallus

I'd agree with all of that if they made sure the Angelus was broadcast in all places of work.