Road tax

Spurgis

hi guys have seen and heard alot of people talking that soon we wont have roadtax just very expensive fuel... is this true??
and what you all think?
i think it would be great,,,,
the more you use the road the more you pay.
wouldnt stop people from having a 3 liter car and only driving 100milles a week.
i think this would be great.

Guy:Incognito

They're bringing in this thing called motor tax to replace it.

colm_mcm

We already have very expensive fuel too.

Spurgis

any idea how will that new system work?

Spurgis

the fuel here is not to bad.
i was on holidays in april in latvia rented a car.
and was driving around ..
diesel there is was 1.34 and petrol was round 1.45.
bare in mind min wage there is 210e a month or somthing.
so we are getting off lightly

colm_mcm

Idea is to out more tax on fuel so the less you drive/more efficient your car the less you pay. Laundering and the fact that we're bordering Northern Ireland doesn't help matters.
Also the gov aren't interested in saving you money on tax. The new emissions based tax is already too low IMO.

Spurgis

i know they want all the money we have.
but for me id say it would be better.
im paying 710 tax now and drive maybe 50milles a week to work and back.
but i hate small cars. so i dont wantt a little micra or fiest.
but i cant afford a new car thats emissions based.

Atlantic Dawn

The proportion of "low" motor tax 2008 onwards cars is growing so the tax on these cars will need to be doubled and eventually trippled over the coming years to make up the shortfall of pre 2008 cars coming off the roads. Also the VRT taken in from these cars when originally purchased has been blown on running the country, paying our debts etc...

Spurgis

like my friends said ... best to chance a cheap car with no tax at all ahh id say we will live and see how the tax system will work out.

colm_mcm

Spurgis wrote: »

i know they want all the money we have.
but for me id say it would be better.
im paying 710 tax now and drive maybe 50milles a week to work and back.
but i hate small cars. so i dont wantt a little micra or fiest.
but i cant afford a new car thats emissions based.

If tax was abolished years ago then 2.0 cars like yours would have become way more expensive. Swings and roundabouts.

Spurgis

i know it would be very expensive to buy one..thats why im getting some info get a 3l bmw now while they are still cheap and then use it when the system changes. thats my plan

_Kaiser_

Spurgis wrote: »

i know it would be very expensive to buy one..thats why im getting some info get a 3l bmw now while they are still cheap and then use it when the system changes. thats my plan

A 3L BMW will cost you just under €1500 a year in tax (or even more @ €422 a quarter if you haven't got all that in one go). It'll also be older and while that's not a problem in itself, it will likely mean more expensive maintenance

Also that price could (probably will!) increase as well so I can't see you saving anything there either unfortunately.

dr.fuzzenstein

Spurgis wrote: »

any idea how will that new system work?

This is Ireland, so first they will make the fuel more expensive, then they will make the fuel more expensive. After that fuel will go up and then taxes on fuel will go up. And then we will need to increase the carbon levy, because how dare you drive a car you dirty swine. After that motor tax will go up. Then the cars, VRT and possibly a levy on insurance. Maybe some more tolls too.
After that the government will make everything more expensive, because we couldn't have people actually making money here, now could we, this country is geared towards the rich and big industry.
Just goes to remind me, when I look at the cream of Irish society that it's not only cream that floats to the top.

djimi

Spurgis wrote: »

i know it would be very expensive to buy one..thats why im getting some info get a 3l bmw now while they are still cheap and then use it when the system changes. thats my plan

People have been talking about the tax system changing to a fuel based tax for a long time now. I wouldnt be holding my breath for it to happen any time soon.

Idbatterim

cheap tax exists on the old cc system too under say 1.5L... yeah you can go out and get an emissions based car, but the depreciation is going to a multiple of the tax "saving" you pay one way or another, also if you are taking out a bigger loan to pay for the a newer emissions car, loan interest isnt exactly cheap at the moment!

below is a recently posted thread, a guy asking about 26k F10 520D, 26k is a fairly serious wedge, where does €400,500,600 for tax even register on the radar when you are prepared to lose 4-5k a year on average over the first 3 years of ownership and another several on loan interest (if you take a loan)...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057251662

this Irish notion you are doing one over on the "system" by costing yourself a lot more on depreciation etc is laughable!

for the motor tax, why not have a flat rate of say E500 a year regardless of CC or emissions a reasonable amount, that everyone pays. Then the rest would be made up from fuel, the thirstier the car, the more you pay... This concept of the Irish "motoring industry" the vast majority just leaves our country never to be seen again and flows to germany, france, japan etc... We can buy their luxury cars 40,50,60k luxury cars, but hey, they can buy our E2 kerrygold!

Ps the value with the bm's on CC is the 2.5L... Wouldnt entertain the 3L unless it was the 258 bhp in a 6 or 7 series, where the prestige would do something to take away the sick feeling of handing over those parasites E1500 a year and another what E150-200 if paid in instalments...

turbocab

djimi wrote: »

People have been talking about the tax system changing to a fuel based tax for a long time now. I wouldnt be holding my breath for it to happen any time soon.

agreed.they wont change it because the hauliers and taxi drivers would be up in arms over it, although it would be fairer,

Jesus.

colm_mcm wrote: »

The new emissions based tax is already too low IMO.

In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary....................... come again?

No Pants

colm_mcm wrote: »

...we're bordering Northern Ireland doesn't help matters.

Regardless of price, every time I'm up there and if I'm near a station that stocks it, I brim the tank with premium fuel.

It's a shame that you can't get decent petrol down here.

colm_mcm

Jesus. wrote: »

In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary....................... come again?

Too low, unsustainable. Didn't take into account 6 years ago the advances in terms of engineering a car to do well on a euro emissions cycle - that were certain to happen and have happened.

markpb

Jesus. wrote: »

In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary....................... come again?

Total intake from motor tax has almost certainly fallen over the last few years. It's hard to see how a government, which already has a budget shortfall, could allow a previously reliable tax to drop. Moreso because a rise in motor tax is unlikely to see less people owning cars so rising it has almost no downsides (for them).

Jesus.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Too low, unsustainable.

Not in practically every other Country on the Planet it aint!

Its only in the Rip-off Republic that 3 hundred quid a year or whatever the average is, is considered fukk all when it comes to Motor tax.

We're a laughing stock

murphyebass

turbocab wrote: »

agreed.they wont change it because the hauliers and taxi drivers would be up in arms over it, although it would be fairer,

Yup would agree with this. And the border county effect also makes it a really tough call to make.

That said the emissions model will have to change. The 07 diesel car v the 08 diesel car tax thing makes absolutely nonsense for example. Same car same engine different tax due 1 year!

Anyway I'll toddle off back to 2.2ltr diesel €280 a year for now until they do amend the rules. Feels wrong after payin over double that for a petrol 2ltr not so long ago.

dr.fuzzenstein

Jesus. wrote: »

Not in practically every other Country on the Planet it aint!

Its only in the Rip-off Republic that 3 hundred quid a year or whatever the average is, is considered fukk all when it comes to Motor tax.

We're a laughing stock

I just had a lobotomy, so yes, I fully agree, we need more taxes and we need to jack up existing taxes! We don't give enough of the little bit of money we enslave ourselves for to the state, so they can give it to billionaire bankers. Won't someone please think of the bankers! They can only afford 150 cases of Kristall for their next annual blowout and coke and hookers might have to be cut, this is a disaster and must not be allowed to happen.

JohnBoy26

colm_mcm wrote: »

Too low, unsustainable. Didn't take into account 6 years ago the advances in terms of engineering a car to do well on a euro emissions cycle - that were certain to happen and have happened.

wasn't that the whole aim of the change in the first place though, to get people into cleaner and greener cars. The lower the Co2 the better for the environment, the less you pay.

anyway Imo it shouldn't be any higher, especially since the government has forced a raft of new taxes and charges on the citizens of this country and we haven't seen any of this "motor tax" ring fenced for road improvement, badly needed road improvements in many parts of the country.

JohnBoy26

murphyebass wrote: »

Yup would agree with this. And the border county effect also makes it a really tough call to make.

That said the emissions model will have to change. The 07 diesel car v the 08 diesel car tax thing makes absolutely nonsense for example. Same car same engine different tax due 1 year!

Anyway I'll toddle off back to 2.2ltr diesel €280 a year for now until they do amend the rules. Feels wrong after payin over double that for a petrol 2ltr not so long ago.

it works both ways though. An 08 diesel car might be cheaper to tax than its 07 equivalent but for many petrol cars of that era it had the opposite effect.

for example an 07 1.4 ford focus is €385 on the cc based system and for the same car on the Co2 system the tax is over circa €570

this decimated the sales of petrol cars for a long time and even still to this day, although they are making a bit of a comeback now as the Co2 and tax has fallen on newer generation petrol engines, brining them closer to diesels.

CiniO

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

wasn't that the whole aim of the change in the first place though, to get people into cleaner and greener cars. The lower the Co2 the better for the environment, the less you pay.

Well it isn't really.
Tax is dependant on CO2 emission rates. CO2 is not poisonous gas. It's a natural gas which naturally exists in air we breath.

Yes indeed - there are theories that increase emissions of CO2 globally, can cause global warming effect.
But it's not poisonous for us directly.

Rather oppositely. Tax system encouraging vehicles with low CO2 emission rates, effectively encourages diesel car, which are much more poisonous for us in place we live and walk (on the streets).

So I wouldn't say that our tax system encourages cars which are better for our environment.

HurtLocker

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The proportion of "low" motor tax 2008 onwards cars is growing so the tax on these cars will need to be doubled and eventually trippled over the coming years to make up the shortfall of pre 2008 cars coming off the roads. Also the VRT taken in from these cars when originally purchased has been blown on running the country, paying our debts etc...

Low me hole. Look at the UK rates. Our low is too high

12 Months and 6 Months
A Up to 100 £0.00 Not available
B 101-110 £20.00 Not available
C 111-120 £30.00 Not available
D 121-130 £110.00 £60.50
E 131-140 £130.00 £71.50
F 141-150 £145.00 £79.75
G 151-165 £180.00 £99.00
H 166-175 £205.00 £112.75
I 176-185 £225.00 £123.75
J 186-200 £265.00 £145.75
K* 201-225 £285.00 £156.75
L 226-255 £485.00 £266.75
M Over 255 £500.00 £275.00 (OVER €2300 here compared to €800 !!)

Compared to https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do

We now will be paying property taxes and water charges. I always justified high motor tax and VRT on the fact we didnt. Its flawed as those who dont own a car could avoid contributing now they cant. If you divide the VRT by the age of the "low tax" car and add it to the annual motor tax we are paying higher again.

Jesus.

How the feck are cars that bellow out clouds of black SSHmoke better for the environment?

I'm no Scientist but it looks weird to me

JohnBoy26

CiniO wrote: »

Well it isn't really.
Tax is dependant on CO2 emission rates. CO2 is not poisonous gas. It's a natural gas which naturally exists in air we breath.

Yes indeed - there are theories that increase emissions of CO2 globally, can cause global warming effect.
But it's not poisonous for us directly.

Rather oppositely. Tax system encouraging vehicles with low CO2 emission rates, effectively encourages diesel car, which are much more poisonous for us in place we live and walk (on the streets).

So I wouldn't say that our tax system encourages cars which are better for our environment.

The global warming effect is what I was referring to when I said cleaner for the enviroment. That was the aim of this, to get emmisions down? Obviously
People buying diesel cars and diesels health effects weren't given much consideration
but that wasn't the government's aim though was it?

CiniO

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The global warming effect is what I was referring to when I said cleaner for the enviroment. That was the aim of this, to get emmisions down? Obviously
People buying diesel cars and diesels health effects weren't given much consideration
but that wasn't the government's aim though was it?

Hmm. Question is why wasn't it.

Loweing CO2 emissions on Irish cars, will change f3ck all globally, consindering Ireland emits very little CO2 anyway, and is fairly small country with fairly low population, very little heavy industry and not that many cars.

On the other hand, encouraging smoky diesels into our towns where people live and breathe was quite ridiculous idea.

I don't really understand why did they do it.

JohnBoy26

CiniO wrote: »

Hmm. Question is why wasn't it.

Loweing CO2 emissions on Irish cars, will change f3ck all globally, consindering Ireland emits very little CO2 anyway, and is fairly small country with fairly low population, very little heavy industry and not that many cars.

On the other hand, encouraging smoky diesels into our towns where people live and breathe was quite ridiculous idea.

I don't really understand why did they do it.

The hole in the ozone is what they were more interested in. I think diesel smoke effects parts of the UK a lot too, afaik air samples were taken not so long ago with high pollution recorded. They don't call it the fuel of the devil for no reason.

sogood

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The global warming effect is what I was referring to when I said cleaner for the enviroment. That was the aim of this, to get emmisions down? Obviously
People buying diesel cars and diesels health effects weren't given much consideration
but that wasn't the government's aim though was it?

Yeah, get our emissions down, create a cleaner atmosphere, and then sell our carbon credits to some other country that is happy to pollute to its' hearts content. End result? Exactly the same amount of emissions globally, except that some governments make some cash out of the system in the process and dupe us all into thinking that we are doing something worthwhile by our choice of motoring, not to mention switching off the "stand by" light on the TV before you go to bed.

quadrifoglio verde

HurtLocker wrote: »

Low me hole. Look at the UK rates. Our low is too high


Compared to https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do

We now will be paying property taxes and water charges. I always justified high motor tax and VRT on the fact we didnt. Its flawed as those who dont own a car could avoid contributing now they cant. If you divide the VRT by the age of the "low tax" car and add it to the annual motor tax we are paying higher again.

Here's the thing were still spending more a year that what were taking in. People can go on about the bank debts but at this stage well be lucky if that gets undone.
So if we are to cut motortax we have to find it somewhere else. They're going to get their pound of flesh of you one way or the other

HurtLocker

Australia just scrapped its Carbon tax. We are really trying to stop a river with a twig. Our motor tax is purely revenue and not really helping the environment. Getting our American counterparts to play some small role would help our climate a million times more. We drive tiny cars compared to them.

With the new water charges and property taxes to pay for local services motor tax should be lowered and ring fenced. The ring fencing is unlikely now but it should be lowered. People won't start driving gas guzzlers but they'll have a little bit more to spend on other expenses. The climate wouldn't be destroyed if we had UK rates, maybe we would could afford to by more locally/Irish produced products.

The huge motor tax on hgv's needs to be lowered. They are essential to trade and we all benefit especially local business. The higher transport costs the higher the cost of products on a local level.

HurtLocker

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Here's the thing were still spending more a year that what were taking in. People can go on about the bank debts but at this stage well be lucky if that gets undone.
So if we are to cut motortax we have to find it somewhere else. They're going to get their pound of flesh of you one way or the other

Yes water and property taxes. They'll be taking a few pounds from everyone regardless if they personally drive.

Wasn't it recently the gov announced they are cutting the 52% tax rate?

Jesus.

HurtLocker wrote: »

Getting our American counterparts to play some small role would help our climate a million times more. We drive tiny cars compared to them.

I tried making that rather obvious point a couple of weeks back but not one person agreed with me. I thought it very strange at the time.

HurtLocker

Jesus. wrote: »

I tried making that rather obvious point a couple of weeks back but not one person agreed with me. I thought it very strange at the time.

:eek:
I'm just back from the states. You'd be lucky to see anything smaller than a passat. In the SUV department they make our Quasqais and Rav 4s look like toys.

Jesus.

I know. I was told Ireland's fleet of cars (bog standard 1.6L Compacts) would be perfectly suitable over there :eek:

visual

All this carbon tax and talk of reducing CO2 is nonsense when you compare the emmisions put out by cows farting.

visual

HurtLocker wrote: »

:eek:
I'm just back from the states. You'd be lucky to see anything smaller than a passat. In the SUV department they make our Quasqais and Rav 4s look like toys.

If I lived there I want a big petrol SUV and not the tinker toys on the road here.
But I do know diesel is gaining more interest and acceptance and Americas are becoming more aware with what they consider higher fuel prices

dr.fuzzenstein

Jesus. wrote: »

I tried making that rather obvious point a couple of weeks back but not one person agreed with me. I thought it very strange at the time.

Irish motorists. We're a self-hating bunch, aren't we? And not only do we gladly hand over our money for all those green clap-trap excuses, we actually shout for more.
I let you all in on a little secret on how to be a taxpayer:
YOU NEVER SAY YOU WANT MORE TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Otherwise that is exactly what you get.
Whatever the level of taxation is, you need to shout bully, abuse, strike, protest and lobby for it to come down, that's how this show works.
A government has one goal in life:
To screw you for as much money as they can possibly get away with and get re-elected.
What do they do with the money? Piss it away like a raging alcoholic does cheap booze.
Let them have less, they'll have to figure out a way to not waste billions on way too many civil servants and useless vanity projects and cronyism.
And if you say do want more taxes? You need to up the meds, buddy.

MayoSalmon

Spurgis wrote: »

the fuel here is not to bad.
i was on holidays in april in latvia rented a car.
and was driving around ..
diesel there is was 1.34 and petrol was round 1.45.
bare in mind min wage there is 210e a month or somthing.
so we are getting off lightly

You were in Latvia...what did you expect?!

quadrifoglio verde

visual wrote: »

If I lived there I want a big petrol SUV and not the tinker toys on the road here.
But I do know diesel is gaining more interest and acceptance and Americas are becoming more aware with what they consider higher fuel prices

Cummins diesel! :cool:

PurvesGrundy

Jesus. wrote: »

I tried making that rather obvious point a couple of weeks back but not one person agreed with me. I thought it very strange at the time.

Even though it's the internet where you or I don't know each other personally other than our usernames, motoring forum boardsies like their internet alter ego's to be perceived as politically correct and law abiding and will go to surprising lengths in blindly defending something that is utterly ridiculous and ludicrous.

quadrifoglio verde

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Irish motorists. We're a self-hating bunch, aren't we? And not only do we gladly hand over our money for all those green clap-trap excuses, we actually shout for more.
I let you all in on a little secret on how to be a taxpayer:
YOU NEVER SAY YOU WANT MORE TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Otherwise that is exactly what you get.
Whatever the level of taxation is, you need to shout bully, abuse, strike, protest and lobby for it to come down, that's how this show works.
A government has one goal in life:
To screw you for as much money as they can possibly get away with and get re-elected.
What do they do with the money? Piss it away like a raging alcoholic does cheap booze.
Let them have less, they'll have to figure out a way to not waste billions on way too many civil servants and useless vanity projects and cronyism.
And if you say do want more taxes? You need to up the meds, buddy.

I don't want to pay more taxes, I just want you to pay more taxes so I don't have to pay as much....and then I want the government to spend as much money on me to buy my vote and as little money on you.
Isn't that the way it works?

visual

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Cummins diesel! :cool:

I spend quite a bit of time on US Jeep forum
the amount of guys who want to fit a cummins diesel is unreal. Very few actually do it because the electronics modules in their Jeeps won't support a different engine computer module need for cummins.

But every now and again someone ditches all the OEM modules and goes way out there with a truly custom rig.

Cummins engine is like the holy grail

ZeroThreat

Spurgis wrote: »

the fuel here is not to bad.
i was on holidays in april in latvia rented a car.
and was driving around ..
diesel there is was 1.34 and petrol was round 1.45.
bare in mind min wage there is 210e a month or somthing.
so we are getting off lightly

Hard to imagine people having to live on 50 quid a week tbh

Jesus.

PurvesGrundy wrote: »

Even though it's the internet where you or I don't know each other personally other than our usernames, motoring forum boardsies like their internet alter ego's to be perceived as politically correct and law abiding and will go to surprising lengths in blindly defending something that is utterly ridiculous and ludicrous.

I've noticed that time and time again and it appears to be very particular to this Board / Petrol heads. Again, I find it utterly bizarre.

We want more taxes.
More speed traps.
More Government control over us (cos the Government is perfect)
The death penalty for any fellow motorist who goes 1 kph over the speed limit
Everybody touting on one another


(Oh and our beige trousers pressed and laid out every night before bedtime...)

dr.fuzzenstein

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

I don't want to pay more taxes, I just want you to pay more taxes so I don't have to pay as much....and then I want the government to spend as much money on me to buy my vote and as little money on you.
Isn't that the way it works?

Almost.
There is the big, frienldy, generous party that like to do handouts, buys off the unions and generally just throws money everyone's way and buys as many elections as possible whilst lying to the people about the country heading over a cliff.
Once the excrement has hit the fan in an almighty sh*tstorm and those lairs, thieves, wasters and morons get kicked out, the other party takes over.
Grey, dour-faced, talking about belt-tightening and misery, their job is to dig the country out of the cesspit it has landed itself in.
Inevitably this pisses the voters off, who still remember the good times they had with the first party, so they get voted back in, so they can then create the next mess for Party Dour to pull us out of.
What neither party does is actually target the billions of waste that happen in almost any modern western government, so the cycle continues until we are so in debt that there is no hope of ever paying it off in a thousand years.
And who gets to pay? We do. Including their caviar and champagne pensions.

The only way to survive is to cheat or to be one of them, which is the same.
In fact the system is built to anticipate a certain level of cheating. So if you're honest and pay everything, you are being overcharged.

dr.fuzzenstein

sogood wrote: »

Yeah, get our emissions down, create a cleaner atmosphere, and then sell our carbon credits to some other country that is happy to pollute to its' hearts content. End result? Exactly the same amount of emissions globally, except that some governments make some cash out of the system in the process and dupe us all into thinking that we are doing something worthwhile by our choice of motoring, not to mention switching off the "stand by" light on the TV before you go to bed.

Carbon credits are a global scam. Where does the money go?
Does it go into a special account labeled "Mother Earth Rescue Fund" which is earmarked for green tech, buying and protecting rainforest, research into cleaning the atmosphere and lots of other cool stuff to do with social engineering, providing human rights and generally making this a better planet?
I trust that scam even less than "aid" going to African dictators so they can buy more weapons, palaces and cars for themselves.
Humans are mean, stupid, greedy and would gladly sell out the planet for a massive sack of cash. So far no-one or very few have proven to be truly selfless in the face of huge piles of cash.

challengemaster

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

anyway Imo it shouldn't be any higher, especially since the government has forced a raft of new taxes and charges on the citizens of this country and we haven't seen any of this "motor tax" ring fenced for road improvement, badly needed road improvements in many parts of the country.

I don't know how many times it has to be explained on here - motor tax goes into the general revenue pool of the country. It's not "road tax" and does not get set aside for road improvement.

And it's been calculated on here before. The country takes in over €1bn from motor tax alone.

Considering the current budget deficit, losing €1bn/yr in stable income is probably not the first port of call for the government, nor would it be easily replaced.